King PDon't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul Premium Member join:2004-11-17 Murfreesboro, TN
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King P
Premium Member
2014-Apr-22 10:25 am
Too bad we paid for Telco fiber deployment back in the 1990's...Of course the Telcos gladly took that money, did nothing with it, and our wonderful Gubm'nt did nothing about it.
And this is where we are today! | |
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Re: Too bad we paid for Telco fiber deployment back in the 1990's...They used the money to pay executive bonuses. | |
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| fg8578 join:2009-04-26 San Antonio, TX |
to King P
said by King P:Of course the Telcos gladly took that money, did nothing with it, and our wonderful Gubm'nt did nothing about it. Other than NJ, I've not seen any reliable documents that say the telcos promised a fiber deployment in the 90s. And no, linking to a Bruce Kushnick article doesn't count. In NJ, apparently the agreement did not include any refund clauses for VZ's failure to perform. The proposed Settlement is at least a sign that the NJ BPU is trying to do something about it. | |
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| chip89 Premium Member join:2012-07-05 Columbia Station, OH |
to King P
Well Sprint did for there network & cell phones it's still used today. | |
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bigballer
Anon
2014-Apr-22 10:35 am
Just a wireless company nowSeems as if we should just let Verizon/ATT sell the wired industry
In what form or way can wireless ever compete with wired? | |
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| morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2014-Apr-22 10:41 am
Re: Just a wireless company nowsaid by bigballer :In what form or way can wireless ever compete with wired? The key would be to keep existing slush funds and subsidies to support only wire line services. However, due to regulatory capture AT&T and Verizon are already making the necessary moves to make sure their pots of gold follow them to wireless. | |
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bigballer
Anon
2014-Apr-22 11:19 am
Re: Just a wireless company nowwith a finite number of spectrum and "hard" caps, wireless is nothing but a cash cow. Consumers aren't that stupid to believe wireless is ever a replacement for wired, especially considering how overpriced wireless as well.
You know what's killing ATT/Verizon wireless more than anything- wifi/ wifi hotspots | |
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| | fg8578 join:2009-04-26 San Antonio, TX |
to morbo
said by morbo:The key would be to keep existing slush funds and subsidies to support only wire line services. However, due to regulatory capture AT&T and Verizon are already making the necessary moves to make sure their pots of gold follow them to wireless. The wireless affiliates don't get ANY federal subsidies for broadband deployment. If you have a link that says otherwise, please post. | |
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| MizzatWill post for thumbs Premium Member join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA |
to bigballer
said by bigballer :Seems as if we should just let Verizon/ATT sell the wired industry
In what form or way can wireless ever compete with wired? They tried, no one is buying. Would you? | |
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bigballer
Anon
2014-Apr-22 11:39 am
Re: Just a wireless company nowIf copper is costing them an arm and leg to maintain, FCC should implement a rule where they can abandon their copper network when/if they replace it with fiber.
Seems fair to me. | |
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MizzatWill post for thumbs Premium Member join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA 1 edit |
Mizzat
Premium Member
2014-Apr-22 11:30 am
Tech Crunch thinks it would only take $11B to roll out nation wideand that's from an analyst that knows that Google has no assets in the ground already, where AT&T has tons of fiber in the ground, just not at the last mile. » techcrunch.com/2013/04/0 ··· stimate/Granted they call nation-wide 20 cities.... | |
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| fg8578 join:2009-04-26 San Antonio, TX |
fg8578
Member
2014-Apr-22 1:31 pm
Re: Tech Crunch thinks it would only take $11B to roll out nation widesaid by Mizzat:and that's from analyst analyst that knows that Google has no assets in the ground already, where AT&T has tons of fiber in the ground, just not at the last mile.
»techcrunch.com/2013/04/0 ··· stimate/
Granted they call nation-wide 20 cities.... According to that analyst, serving 149K homes in KC will cost $84M, that works out to $563 per house. He's crazy if he thinks google can roll out fiber for that amount per home. If it was that cheap, and coupled with the claim that ISPs virtually print money, then EVERYBODY would be doing it. I note that that amount will only allow google to pass (but not connect) 149K homes. Actually connecting them cost much more and hence the $300 connection fee. | |
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| | MizzatWill post for thumbs Premium Member join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA |
Mizzat
Premium Member
2014-Apr-22 2:19 pm
Re: Tech Crunch thinks it would only take $11B to roll out nation wideto pass 149K homes....just cause Google passed them doesn't mean they pay/are served, as you noted.
I remember reading AT&T stopped U-verse rollout for a while to further penetrate subscribers, I think it is now up to 21% of homes passed have U-verse TV, not sure about broadband. So that $563 cost goes way up if only 20% are buying. | |
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| | | fg8578 join:2009-04-26 San Antonio, TX |
fg8578
Member
2014-Apr-22 3:04 pm
Re: Tech Crunch thinks it would only take $11B to roll out nation wideAgreed. People seem to ignore such numbers when all they see is the great net income numbers put up by these ISPs. | |
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| | SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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to fg8578
said by fg8578:He's crazy if he thinks google can roll out fiber for that amount per home. If it was that cheap, and coupled with the claim that ISPs virtually print money, then EVERYBODY would be doing it. I note that that amount will only allow google to pass (but not connect) 149K homes. Fiber doesn't cost that much today. The only issue is supplying legacy services though it. If you were able to do IP-only services though the fiber, then the issue would disappear. The problem we need to get rid of are analog services. Digital-only CATV (with certain channels ATSC unencrypted). Analog phone lines are freakin' dead. We need to get rid of them and go all IP phones, which would drop the cost dramatically. If you need a FAX machine, get an ATA (which would drop in price as well). We NEED to get rid of the legacy network and go next-gen. The only way to do that is replace every copper line with fiber. ..and having a dumb-pipe is inevitable. It will happen eventually, so the carriers better be prepared. I wouldn't mind it myself, being able to pick which channels I want, which phone carrier I want, which ISP I want, etc. All coming from one fiber connection instead of several copper ones. Can't get fiber out there just yet? Convert all the twisted pair lines into T1's. | |
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I have AT&T fiber...to the curb with an amazing 6 mb dsl connection. Why can't AT&T upgrade these systems?!?!?! AT&T has no intention of providing 1 gig connections in any meaningful numbers. AT&T is full of crap! | |
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Re: I have AT&T fiber...att lies more then the nsa | |
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Re: I have AT&T fiber...AT&T should bill the NSA for the privilege of tapping their lines and co-locating spy equipment. Too bad Ed "My Pipes" Whitacre didn't think of that.
Charge 'em by the megabit. | |
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Mr_Toad to Gilitar
Anon
2014-Apr-22 3:29 pm
to Gilitar
If you mean you are a xFITL customer, then congratulations because you have put up with AT&T's crap for too long. Before BellSouth got bought out by AT&T, BS actually had plans to upgrade the xFITL and MX Disqus customers to a xPON platform (most likely GPON from Ericson). As soon as AT&T got their hands on this system, it was pretty evident that these customers were about to be screwed over. If you don't have a cable operator to provide you with actual broadband, then you might as well go with wireless, or God forbid - satellite. | |
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Re: I have AT&T fiber...I am stuck with AT&T because Mediacom is too cheap to do any expansions. Mediacom and AT&T both suck! | |
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Mr_Toad
Anon
2014-Apr-22 3:38 pm
Re: I have AT&T fiber...Are you on their IFITL/DFITL or MX DISC*S ? Either way, AT&T's old fiber customers should sign a petition to get the Government involved pretty soon. | |
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Re: I have AT&T fiber...said by Mr_Toad :Are you on their IFITL/DFITL or MX DISC*S ? Either way, AT&T's old fiber customers should sign a petition to get the Government involved pretty soon. I'm on MX DISC*S. I'm on board to sign a petition. Who wants to start it? | |
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Re: I have AT&T fiber...What if the Gigapower network IS the upgrade of FITL? It seems to me that GPON is the only way to deliver these speeds and in FITL neighborhoods the fiber is already in place. All they need is a drop to the house (for customers that subscribe only). I have my fingers crossed. OR they could mean only new developments, not upgrading existing at all. Any thoughts? | |
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ATX FTTP
Anon
2014-Apr-22 2:48 pm
Fiber to the pressKarl,
Can you be anymore bias in your article. I'm not an AT&T fanboy but you are clearly drinking the Google koolaid.
What has Google delivered with the exception of a small area of KC. AT&T has delivered not only the Austin area but also a number of the surrounding areas. Select high end deployments is a bit harsh. AT&T is in over 20 subdivisions in Cedar Park/Leander TX area hardly a small select few high end area. Google has only released a press release saying they are coming to Austin. There has been no Google deployment. AT&T copied and is feeling the pressure but they actually deployed their solution.
Let's not pretend Google is going dig up all of Austin to deploy fiber because they are not. They will install where they can hang fiber on poles and connect to a "few high end areas". They will declare mission accomplished.
All this Google hype with no Google fiber in sight. If anyone is guilty of Fiber to the press it's been Google. 34 more cities? They haven't installed but in one. When they are actually deployed maybe I will be become a believer. What I do know is that my 320/320 symmetrical Gigapower from AT&T works just fine and I look forward to the upgrade to 1gb in June. | |
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Re: Fiber to the pressWould you mind posting speed tests from speedtest.net on your ATT Gigapower connection, like these from Google Fiber? » Speed tests.... Would prefer tests from hard wired if you can, not WiFi. If from WiFi, note that. Thanks. | |
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Re: Fiber to the pressDon't have a whole lot of time right now running out to dinner but here you go. keep in mind we are capped at 320 until summer. | |
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Re: Fiber to the pressThanks. When you get a chance, can you also try speed tests to Chicago, NYC and LA.
And also a traceroute to both coasts. Thanks. | |
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to ATX FTTP
said by ATX FTTP :Let's not pretend Google is going dig up all of Austin to deploy fiber because they are not. They will install where they can hang fiber on poles and connect to a "few high end areas". They will declare mission accomplished. Google is digging up the entire city here (they have been trenching my fiberhood for about 2 months straight now). Not sure why it would be any different there. Google is definitely serving VERY poor areas here as well. Ask anybody in KC. | |
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Re: Fiber to the pressRight, the first area Google selected was City of KC, KS, the lowest income city in KC metro. Then they selected Central KCMO, of which the E side is also lowest income area of metro. The upper income burbs were not approached until later. | |
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| Matt7 join:2001-01-02 Columbus, OH |
to ATX FTTP
said by ATX FTTP :All this Google hype with no Google fiber in sight. If anyone is guilty of Fiber to the press it's been Google. AMEN! So true.. Please stop this "Fiber to the press release" stuff unless you include Google in that too.. Can most of Kansas City get Google Fiber? NO! There are very "select" areas that can get Google Fiber... and in fact those areas that ARE serviced by Google Fiber.. unless your already on the committed list.. you can't sign up even if Google fiber is in your own backyard. | |
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Re: Fiber to the pressGoogle Fiber deployment has kicked up significantly in Central KCMO and KCK - large residential buildings also getting it. N/S KCMO registrations (and a couple burbs) are happening now. And they have actual contractual agreements with about half the KC burbs, not just announcements - the metro is over 2M people. KC appears to be the largest GBit deployment for any one metro.
Is true they are only deploying where registrations are first but Google said several times they would infill after the rollout to registered people are complete. Wouldn't make sense if they completely stop, they are just establishing the priority. | |
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Mr_Toad
Anon
2014-Apr-22 3:08 pm
How about upgrading existing xFITL customers too?"millions of AT&T users are lucky to get 6 Mbps..."
"A significant remainder is going to upgrading lagging U-Verse customers to 45 Mbps (a speed market already well-behind cable), and finishing a few belated builds in San Francisco and Indianapolis."
So AT&T wants to upgrade existing U-Verse customers and when they are leaving many of their IFITL/DFITL/MX customers (formerly BellSouth customers) with deprecated technology from the late 90s/early 00s. Most of these customers cannot see anything faster than 3 mbps and IFITL customers are lucky to see anything faster than 1.5 mbps. The funny thing is that AT&T acknowledges that they are leaving many of these loyal and fed-up customers hung out to dry and it is just peachy with them. Instead of trying to match Google fiber, why not upgrade the existing customers that can barely achieve broadband speeds? Many of these IFITL/DFITL customers are being left hung out to dry with this system that AT&T no longer seems to support. Even copper DSL customers can get a 6.0 mbps connection and AT&T is trying to throw these customers under the bus too. But no, all they care about is LTE because wireless with expensive caps is the future. | |
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Aoxxt join:2010-12-13 Dearborn, MI |
Aoxxt
Member
2014-Apr-22 4:30 pm
And all this after we have paid AT&T to do it...AT&T has already been given Billions of dollars in tax incentives [techdirt.com] to deliver fiber optic cable based internet to your house. According to the incentive plans these high speed internet connections should already be installed and functioning for pretty much every American at speeds averaging 45 Mbps upload and download. Every American taxpayer, that is not a provider of internet infrastructure, has taken on the burden of $2000.00 more in taxes in order to offset the incentives gives to AT&T and the baby bells. Do you have your low cost, high speed fiber yet? | |
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openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Apr-22 5:05 pm
Tisk, tisk, Karlsaid by Karl Bode:While AT&T has assigned $14 billion over three years for what they're calling "Project VIP," the lion's share of those funds have already gone to LTE deployment. Once again Karl, AT&T's CAPEX is split mostly equal between wireless and wireline. I wouldn't call 52% a lion's share. said by AT&T's FY13 Financials :Virtually all of our capital expenditures are spent on our wireless and wireline networks, our U-verse services and support systems for our communications services. Capital expenditures, excluding interest during construction, increased $1,479 from 2012. Our Wireless segment represented 52% of our total spending and increased 3% in 2013. The Wireline segment, which includes U-verse services, represented 48% of the total capital expenditures and increased 13% in 2013, primarily reflecting our implementation of Project VIP. | |
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