site Search:


 
   
story category
AT&T Stops Selling CallVantage VoIP To New Customers
Is AT&T cooking a new VoIP product aimed at DSL users?
by Karl Bode Friday 15-Aug-2008 tags: business · telco · VoIP · AT&T U-Verse
Tipped by MyDogHsFleas See Profile
Users in our forums note that AT&T has quietly stopped offering CallVantage VoIP service to new business or residential customers. CallVantage was introduced into the market back in 2004 by AT&T as a delayed response to continued landline losses and VoIP competition, and is frequently bundled with both DSL and U-Verse VDSL service. However, the service becomes expendable as AT&T moves all services onto the same IP network; AT&T previously stating CallVantage had "capacity issues." From AT&T's website:

Click for full size
Thank you for your interest in AT&T CallVantage® service. Currently we are not accepting new orders for AT&T CallVantage service. We will continue to evaluate our AT&T CallVantage service and remain committed to providing leading, next generation voice services for today's consumer and business customers.

The slow death of CallVantage isn't particularly surprising, given that AT&T wants their U-Verse Voice brand to supplant the older CallVantage service, and AT&T stopped pushing CallVantage through affiliate channels last month. It's the timing that seems a little premature, given that neither U-Verse or U-Verse Voice are available in the vast majority of AT&T markets. U-Verse Voice isn't even available in all U-Verse VDSL-upgraded markets.

Most likely, AT&T found that their CallVantage service, which can be had for $20 a month if you're an AT&T Wireless, DSL or U-Verse customer, was undercutting their $30-$40 U-Verse Voice products in markets where U-Verse Voice was deployed. It was also likely accelerating AT&T's already steep landline losses. It's possible that AT&T is coming out with a new VoIP service they plan to aim squarely at existing DSL customers that costs more.

I asked an AT&T spokesman for additional detail, and was told "we have nothing additional to announce at this time" outside of what was already posted on the CallVantage website. When asked if existing customers had anything to worry about, AT&T informed me "there's nothing impacting existing customers today."

view: topics flat text 
Post a:

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

1 edit

Lets see...

AT&T can sell:

POTS unlimited for $40/month, add on another $5 for Canada, which comes out to almost $60 after fees/taxes

Uverse Voice (in the few markets that sell it) for $40/month, requiring Uverse TV service ($$$) $40 (or $30) + TV service

CallVantage = $25/month... no AT&T TV, POTS, LD requirements. Just an internet connection.

Of course AT&T is going to stop this service... its not that they're losing money.. its that they're not making as much money.

Basically:
POTS Unlimited: $40 + $5/Canada = $~58/month
Uverse Voice: $30 or $40 + AT&T only Uverse TV = $85 or more
Call Vantage: $25/month + any internet service

--
Canada = Hollywood North
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast

Re: Lets see...

Of course, CallVantage is similarly priced to "traditional" VoIP providers like Lingo, Vonage, VT, VoicePulse etc. So now if CV is cut off people will just move to other VoIP providers. They certainly won't pony up another $15 per month just to keep a telco brand name.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Lets see...

said by iansltx:

Of course, CallVantage is similarly priced to "traditional" VoIP providers like Lingo, Vonage, VT, VoicePulse etc. So now if CV is cut off people will just move to other VoIP providers. They certainly won't pony up another $15 per month just to keep a telco brand name.
I wouldn't be so sure. Many people have the choice of those same VOIP providers and yet choose to pay MORE for Comcast's CDV Voip product.

Brand names are very powerful and backed by lots of advertising. Many, many people choose the brand name product over a much cheaper generic product all the time.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

Re: Lets see...

Agreed!
Third party VoIP use the actual HSI connection for the voice service - CDV does not.

Internet can go down, no third party VoIP is going to work - CDV most likely will!

CDV is backed up by battery - my modem is not.
No modem - no HSI - no VoIP/
CDV doesn't need modem or internet.
CDV does work in a power outage.

My choice was for the CDV as opposed to third party VoIP solution.
Yeah, CDV costs more than say AT&T CV or Vonage - it'll work though when *they* will not.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·VOIPo
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·PHONE POWER

3 edits

Re: Lets see...

You also don't need to play QoS games for your phone to work reliably. The bandwidth for it is provisioned separately from your HSI.

Your CDV also probably works with data services like faxes and TiVos. CallVantage could do it but requires "special" configuration, and there were warnings about upload bandwidth throttling and poor voice quality on their instructions. Some other VOIP providers can't do it at all.

CDV, and probably even U-verse Voice are more robust services and are priced as such.

For U-verse and AT&T DSL users, at least there was a little comfort in knowing that we stayed completely on AT&T's network to arrive at CallVantage's servers.

I simply don't trust some of the smaller VOIP outfits with my phone number. I don't want another SunRocket. CV may be being retired, but AT&T is a big company, I'm sure if they shut it down completely, we will be migrated off reasonably smoothly. I'm guessing AT&T doesn't want to let a bunch of voice customers just walk away, though. They will probably hang onto us until they can migrate us somewhere else.

Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast Digital ..
said by dadkins:

Agreed!
Third party VoIP use the actual HSI connection for the voice service - CDV does not.

Internet can go down, no third party VoIP is going to work - CDV most likely will!

CDV is backed up by battery - my modem is not.
No modem - no HSI - no VoIP/
CDV doesn't need modem or internet.
CDV does work in a power outage.

My choice was for the CDV as opposed to third party VoIP solution.
Yeah, CDV costs more than say AT&T CV or Vonage - it'll work though when *they* will not.
I definitely agree with that. My previous AT&T VOIP service was good, but if the internet or power died, it died with it.

The price was creeping up. So, I went looking elsewhere and found CDV in a package deal, for only a few cents more then what my bill already said.

With it, I get 7 digit dialing again, battery backup when the power goes out, and working E-911.

To me, that is worth the slightly more money I pay CDV for. If it wouldn't have been CDV, I'd have evaluated my options and balanced features, price and uptimes and went like that.

CDV was the best choice all around and with what AT&T is doing now, it looks like I made the right choice as CallVantage looks to be going bye bye and I'd lose service anyway.
priller

join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA
said by dadkins:

Internet can go down, no third party VoIP is going to work - CDV most likely will!

CDV is backed up by battery - my modem is not.
No modem - no HSI - no VoIP/
CDV doesn't need modem or internet.
CDV does work in a power outage.

Hold the phone! Let's get the facts right.

I have a UPS on my Comcast modem and third-party ATA. When the power goes out, I'm still working.

CDV needs the eMTA ... what do you think that is!!!

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·VOIPo
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·PHONE POWER

Re: Lets see...

said by priller:

I have a UPS on my Comcast modem and third-party ATA. When the power goes out, I'm still working.

CDV needs the eMTA ... what do you think that is!!!
Funny - without CDV availability, Comcast's node and other cable equipment probably wouldn't be battery backed, and you'd be SOL in a power outage anyway!

-- Rob
priller

join:2000-10-20
Gainesville, VA

Re: Lets see...

HeHeHe ... That's very true! Thanks Comcast!!!!

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
During many power outages, DSL worked fine, as long as I powered up the modem (car jumpstart kit + 400W inverter).
--
Canada = Hollywood North

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·VOIPo
·Verizon Wireless..
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T U-Verse
·PHONE POWER

3 edits

Re: Lets see...

Not too surprising for DSL - Unless you're on an RT, there's no active equipment between you and the CO that needs powering. And I assume COs are very well poised to maintain power during a power outage.

RTs are, again, tied to voice services, so those are also surely designed to run during a power outage.

Cable has a lot of active equipment between the end user and the plant that needs powering. I remember back when I had MediaOne (no phone services offered), whenever there was a power outage, there was a predictable amount of time it took for their data services to come back up once power was restored. It was sort of like waiting for their computers to boot-up!


Ual

@bellsouth.net
said by djrobx:

Funny - without CDV availability, Comcast's node and other cable equipment probably wouldn't be battery backed, and you'd be SOL in a power outage anyway!

-- Rob
I've had battery backups for a long time (just plain good idea for your computer equipment) and the node's had battery backups long before they started offering CDV anywhere. Power can be a tricky thing - you can have power and the neighbors across the street not. Imagine if your Comcast would have always gone out if anywhere between them and you SOMEBODY somewhere didn't have power.

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Lets see...

Yep, anyone who gets HSI (with or without CDV) and doesn't use a UPS with their cable modem or eMTA (and, of course, their computer) pretty much deserves what they get when the power goes out.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
said by priller:

said by dadkins:

Internet can go down, no third party VoIP is going to work - CDV most likely will!

CDV is backed up by battery - my modem is not.
No modem - no HSI - no VoIP/
CDV doesn't need modem or internet.
CDV does work in a power outage.

Hold the phone! Let's get the facts right.

I have a UPS on my Comcast modem and third-party ATA. When the power goes out, I'm still working.

CDV needs the eMTA ... what do you think that is!!!
What do I think it is? An eMTA.
There is no UPS here, the ARIS eMTA has it's own battery - just like my laptops.
The eMTA does NOT power anything else - not even it's own HSI modem!


--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
CDV doesn't need a modem ? Where is it 'plugged' in at your house ?

I will have TWC VoIP next week, but I've had VERY good service on Skype for making calls.

CDV is backed up by battery (I'm not very concerned about power outages - I have a car jumpstart kit that runs for ~6-8 hours powering modem + lights)
CDV does work in a power outage (as long as I powered up my modem, I had internet on DSL.. and VoIP)

I do agree that CDV/UverseVoice/TWC is a better overall product with QoS. With the current small VoIP's going belly up, I'll stick with TWC voice (next week after I drop AT&T) for a while.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit

Re: Lets see...

Define "modem"
The ARRIS is an eMTA(enhanced multimedia terminal adapter).
When a power-outage happens, the "modem" side of it is dead but the phone side works.

CDV does not rely on the HSI to operate and no "modem" is active - no HSI.

Sure, with a UPS, you can probably get the other VoIP services to work, but many/most people with CDV or VoIP services do not have a UPS lighting up... anything.
Last power "interruption" we had, CDV worked fine.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
TomMac
Premium
join:2008-03-23
Dayton, OH
I do not know about Canada but in the US the Time-Warner cable phone service is not VOIP. It is a proprietary digital phone service. There is a difference.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Lets see...

and as far as i know TWC does NOT offer battery back-up built in. they did at one time but had a problem and took them all out.

When i lived in Fremont OH my DP never had a backup. and if you didnt have a MOT eMTA you'd have problems with the SAs.

jt4

@comcast.net

approval from:
dadkins See Profile

but comcast cdv does not go thought public internet service. it goes thought there own network.. Comcast has more control over the service then like vonage. comcast cdv has normal 911 service other voip do not. comcast cdv work for alarms or voip dont. so people are paying a little bit more for more feature and benefits

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
Maybe they have plans to start messing around with other peoples VOIP like Comcast used to do.

letsnot

@swbell.net
lets not forget that callvantage is a pre merger product. Lots of pre merger products on both sbc and att sides were drastically changed or getting canceled all together.

Callvantage was a dead service long before att decided to stop selling it. Recent FCC E911 mandates made offering of the service much more troublesome. Soon, Uverse voip will be able to be sold without requiring uverse service itself, basically replacing the callvantage type product anyway.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: Lets see...

said by letsnot :

Soon, Uverse voip will be able to be sold without requiring uverse service itself, basically replacing the callvantage type product anyway.
let me guess: price will be higher than callvantage? that's not a true replacement.

IfIwere

@swbell.net

Re: Lets see...

If I were to guess I would say when Uverse voice gets a bring your own broadband option that they will price it closer to what is in the market at that time for similar services. Just a guess but to me that makes sense. I also expect prices of the bundled packages to get better too as more people get on the network and they start to get some ROI. Historically DSL prices did the exact same thing.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
Uverse VoIP is already more expensive than traditional VoIP, and is only available bundled, in SOME of the few markets that AT&T offers Uverse (i.e. Not Los Angeles).
--
Canada = Hollywood North

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1

1 edit

Re: Lets see...

Except in Detroit, where U-verse Voice is offered at $20.

-- Rob

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: Lets see...

that true?

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1

Re: Lets see...

»detroit.dbusinessnews.com/showne···s=latest
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Lets see...

AT&T must be really hurting for business in Detroit (auto industry is pretty much a dead business around Detroit right now, and its not the most desirable city to live in - HIGH unemployment area)
--
Canada = Hollywood North
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
very true. but as always lately- Karl has it wrong. ATT started the service to gain customers without having to rely on the actual resell of landlines.

This is an "actual" AT&T product. not AT$T, Inc

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:1
quote:
CallVantage = $25/month... no AT&T TV, POTS, LD requirements. Just an internet connection.
When you're an AT&T wireless/u-verse/dsl customer, CV was $20.

-- Rob

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
Of course, CallVantage is/was available in non-at&t/AT&T service areas, so they are/were taking business away from other providers and not from their other telephony products. Why shouldn't they change to just offering it outside their own areas instead of altogether (to avoid competing with their other products; people don't seem to mind paying Comcast $43/mo for CDV just to have a nice, neat little bundle so why should the at&t sheep be any different)?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
It's still a dumb move.

Why not just get a wireless plan. AT&T should offer a cheap VOIP service. U-Verse Voice etc etc costs more then wireless or Cable competitors.

AT&T should stick with a reliable VOIP at low prices. They won't, however.
Fisamo
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC
Reviews:
·VOIPo

Re: Lets see...

OK, I know I'm arguing a pretty small point, but UVV is priced about the same as most cable digital phone offerings at $40/mo.

But on the main point, I do think ATT should continue to offer a less expensive VoIP product that comes without the (at least implied) SLA, due to phone traffic being kept separate from internet traffic. I've been using CallVantage on my 3M (then upgraded to 5M, now 7M)/384k upload cable service, and I've never had any complaints. The few glitches I've had have primarily been with dying ATA equipment (I've had 2 of 'em quit on me).

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Lets see...

Unfortunately, at&t doesn't think a $12billion/yr profit is enough.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Lets see...

said by mod_wastrel:

Unfortunately, at&t doesn't think a $12billion/yr profit is enough.
With the HUGE companies that now exist due to globalization, it is NOT the amount of the profit that is relevant. It is the percentage of profit to revenues that determines a businesses worth to stockholders. And claiming a business is ripping off the customers based purely on total profit dollars is naive and mistaken.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1

Re: Lets see...

Being a customer is also a form of investment. Customers pour considerably more money into a business than stockholders (are you one perchance?).

I made no claims regarding a rip-off, but I don't care how you look at it: $12billion/yr in profit is excessive no matter how "global" you are, especially for a corporation that continues to raise its rates more so than its competitors.

Fortunately, I'm neither an at&t customer nor an investor.

burgerwars

join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA

The Long Goodbye...

I cancelled them a few months ago because I wasn't using the service much. At that time I tried to port a simple-reach number to another provider. They wouldn't let it go (saying it was a feature), but would only let me port the primary number.

I wonder why they were so reluctant to give up the number, in that they probably knew that they're slowly discontinuing the service.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: The Long Goodbye...

Simple reach, out of market numbers, virtual numbers, et-all, ... from what I've experienced, no provider lets go of those numbers. If you want that simple-reach number, convert it to an actual phone number on line two and then port it. When you get to your new provider, who will also have to port it as a "line" .. you can then ask them to make it a virtual number there.

It has nothing to do with their desire to discontinue their service.
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2

Re: The Long Goodbye...

Not true- virtual numbers are numbers just the same. As a provider it doesn't matter to us if the number being ported out is "virtual" or not. (read: they can be ported out)

AT&T is just pulling dirty tricks to avoid porting, which is arguably against FCC regulations.
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: The Long Goodbye...

::Sigh:: No.. it's not true. I've had services with Vonage, Packet 8, Call Vantage, and ViaTalk, and NONE of them allow you to Port the virtual number away from them.

Please speak only about your service and stop interjecting it around here as a cheap way to get attention to your own service. The bottom line is, and I don't care if you have a tiny little voip service yourself, you're wrong.

Please do your home work here and, quite frankly, ignore my posts.

Read: they are NOT ported out - not as virtual numbers.
nitzan
Premium,VIP
join:2008-02-27
kudos:2
I bet you're feeling vindicated now.. no?

I wonder if they'll keep service for existing customers, or just scrap it altogether...
--
Nitzan Kon, CEO
Future Nine Corporation

Common Sense

@comcast.net

turn down money???

There's always Verizon Voicewing..... Verizon's not going to turn down any money... It's just a matter of time before Quest or Sprint jump on the VOIP game.

See 9 replies to this post

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

lets see

I wonder if vonage will have a responce to this?

Mizzat
Will post for thumbs
Premium
join:2003-05-03
Atlanta, GA
kudos:1

Or a new product is coming out..

Like VoIP over DSL, not just U-verse.....
--
-M

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:33

Re: Or a new product is coming out..

Yeah, that's the only other thing I could think of....

The Beer
I Love It When A Plan Comes Together
Premium
join:2001-07-24
Atlantic, IA

Kinda Sad

I have to say I Loved CallVantage and is without a doubt my favorite of the ones out there.

What bothered me was the strange "Feature based pricing" they moved to where it mirrored POTS.

I think it has the best call quality by far, it will be missed. So long CallVantage!

dwwc1

@mycingular.net

Re: Kinda Sad

Could this shut down of CV be due to the new T-Mobile @ home service for only $10 per month? Maybe AT&T mobility will be coming out with a new offering that will hopefully include Femtocell?
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

product remix

AT&T follows cable company's and Apple's lead... cripple the product, make it more expensive, and exclusive to their ISP all in the name of bringing value/branding to the consumer. One thing is for certain.. critical mass of canceled POTS lines will accelerate in 2009 where reliable broadband is available. for emergencies(911), there is always an unsubscribed cell phone... as a backup.

Saturday, 18-May 23:51:56 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 13.5 years online © 1999-2013 dslreports.com.