pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
1 recommendation |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 10:06 am
More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadI've always claimed that a smartphone without an unlimited data plan is nothing more than a very expensive toy. Glad to be validated once again. If you want to play with a smartphone or similar device, go to a network that offers an unlimited data plan. The extra cost is minute compared to the sanity received. | |
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| robo74 join:2003-10-23 Harvard, IL |
robo74
Member
2011-Jan-31 10:14 am
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadThis goes out to all the AT&T fans that thought AT&T was perfect. No such perfect carrier exists. | |
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| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 10:19 am
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by robo74:This goes out to all the AT&T fans that thought AT&T was perfect. No such perfect carrier exists. Indeed. I am sure that this happens to everyone with any limited data plan from any network. | |
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| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano Premium Member join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs |
N3OGH
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 12:08 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadLooks like AT&T has been taking Verizon billing lessons. | |
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| | | SLD Premium Member join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA |
SLD to pnh102
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 3:14 pm
to pnh102
Not just data - I've noticed that my T-Mobile prepaid minutes magically disappear - they seem to overbill about 20%. | |
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| | | | Ben Premium Member join:2007-06-17 Fort Worth, TX |
Ben
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 3:24 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by SLD:Not just data - I've noticed that my T-Mobile prepaid minutes magically disappear - they seem to overbill about 20%. Are you sure? Maybe you make many short calls and you tend to end your calls partially through a minute. It's standard practice to round up such partial usage up to the next full minute. | |
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| | djrobx Premium Member join:2000-05-31 Reno, NV |
to robo74
said by robo74:This goes out to all the AT&T fans that thought AT&T was perfect. All 5 of them? I saw an extremely high amount of usage on my phone when I wasn't using it / was at home with wifi available. Turns out it was automatically checking my hotmail account, which had 20,000+ messages. It's primarily a junk account, but I was buying a home so I wanted to be alerted to new messages. Just checking this account racked up almost 2gb of data over the course of a month. I don't otherwise do a lot - prior to enabling the account my usage was 200-500mb/month. Wifi doesn't help. When the phone is locked, the wifi is disabled to save battery. So it will do a lot of email checking on 3G even when wifi is available. I disabled automatic email checking and got the message count of my Hotmail account down to a low roar, and my usage is back to normal. | |
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| | | innoman- Premium Member join:2002-05-07 Seattle, WA |
innoman
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 1:14 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badthat's frustrating... it should limit the number of messages it downloads and only check for new stuff. (but do things ever work the way they should? | |
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| | innoman
1 recommendation |
to robo74
AT&T has fans? Wow, those guys aren't very bright. HAHA | |
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to robo74
said by robo74:This goes out to all the AT&T fans that thought AT&T was perfect. Who the hell ever even remotely thought that AT&T was perfect? Like, I am not even sure AT&T employees would go anywhere close to that thought | |
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| Bill Neilson |
to pnh102
I have had unlimited since Day 1 with my iPhone and if they ever put me on a limited plan, I would jump off in a heartbeat
I use well over the laughable 2gb per month and I do not do any video viewing whatsoever.
My iPad is restricted tremendously the last few days of every month due to me using it at work with no Wifi available.
I won't be getting a 2nd iPad unless the caps are lifted altogether or quite a bit. | |
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to pnh102
said by pnh102:I've always claimed that a smartphone without an unlimited data plan is nothing more than a very expensive toy. Glad to be validated once again.
If you want to play with a smartphone or similar device, go to a network that offers an unlimited data plan. The extra cost is minute compared to the sanity received. There are people here who say that they leave their phones streaming video even when they're not watching/listening. This is the equivalent of getting unlimited gasoline from the gas station and just leaving your engine running at full throttle all day. I would support a truly unlimited data plan if there was allowance to deal with the data hogs and true abusers. | |
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| | innoman- Premium Member join:2002-05-07 Seattle, WA |
innoman
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 1:21 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadI am not sure that I would call it abuse. Even the "data hogs" are still paying for more than what they get. I remember Netflix stating that streaming the actual videos was cheap, that it only costs them pennies per gigabyte.
I work in the wireless industry and am very familiar with how the technologies work so I realize it's different with wireless than it is with the connection Netflix has but still.. $25 for 2GB of data (or a ridiculous $45 if you want to tether your phone and still only have the 2GB) is absurd. The true abuser there is AT&T.
If people didn't feel they were being ripped off, a majority of them probably wouldn't try to "abuse" the system.
It's the consumers who are being abused, not the operator. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadI agree that the 2GB limit is pretty low, but if you're streaming constantly just to spite AT&T you're going to go well over 2GB.
The point isn't the amount, it's the intent.
There has to be a balance between artificially low caps and users being allowed unconditional unlimited access. Neither really works out well. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadThere is. A higher cap that allows reasonable use. Probably somewhere around the 10gb range. And only throttle after that, so small amounts of data like basic web surfing, text chats, information updates, etc. work just fine.
The only reason they set the cap at 2gbs, is because they are setting it low enough so the average user will probably be paying another 20-30 bucks a month in data overage charges. And children will run up 100+ dollars in extra charges. It is designed to replace the text messaging bill shock from the last decade.
Also they could demand phone manufacturers to have better data controls in the phone settings.
A user should easily be able to set certain apps and services to be restricted to wifi only. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadYou could make it 10GB or 100GB, people will still cry that it's not unlimited, like the Comcast 250GB cap is cried about today. | |
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| | | | | | SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by fifty nine:You could make it 10GB or 100GB, people will still cry that it's not unlimited, like the Comcast 250GB cap is cried about today. I wouldn't. 10GB or 100GB is a ton better than the crappy 2GB they give you. I wouldn't have switched if their data plan wasn't absolute crap. | |
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to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:You could make it 10GB or 100GB, people will still cry that it's not unlimited, like the Comcast 250GB cap is cried about today. People will cry, but much less. 2gb is designed so normal use can go over it. It is a price gouging technique. If they really have network issues, they should set a cap and just throttle after that. The comcast 250gb cap is barely cried about because very few breach it. | |
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to fifty nine
If they made it 100gb, nobody would be crying with iPhones/iPads except those watching HD movies on Netflix nightly or near 24/7 OR those teethering...so no, few if any would be crying
Your exaggeration there failed miserably considering people cry about 2gb...and you went to 100gb as if 99.99999% of those crying about the 2gb would have any sort of remote problem with 100gb
Now, as for the Comcast Cap, I have seen generally positive reaction here from it. Now, everyone? Of course not. But the majority including myself ALL THE WHILE I hate caps in general.
So, no...crying would not be occuring at all with large caps....which is what we thought we would get when caps were put in place....then we were told we had 2gbs | |
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| | | | | innoman- Premium Member join:2002-05-07 Seattle, WA |
to insomniac84
I can agree with that. Once newer technologies are out that are capable of more, then I think the caps should increase or go away. | |
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to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:There has to be a balance between artificially low caps and users being allowed unconditional unlimited access. Neither really works out well. I don't understand why nobody has done a "nights and weekends" thing for data. It seemed to work well enough for voice calls back in the days when capacity for them was actually an issue. Why should AT&T or Verizon care if you are pegging the tower at 4am when hardly anybody else is using it? This seems like something they could give away that would cost them next to nothing and earn a little bit of goodwill in response. | |
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| | | | | MrHappy316Wish I had my tank Premium Member join:2003-01-02 Columbia, SC |
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadI agree, what happened to the old days you could use your minutes for either data or voice when data worked as a modem more than an on all the time connection. | |
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to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:I agree that the 2GB limit is pretty low, but if you're streaming constantly just to spite AT&T you're going to go well over 2GB.
Constantly? If you stream anything at all even just 1-2 movies chances are you will go over if you remotely use your phone for other means like email, apps, etc... I agree with your overall point but I think the true answer is that a suitable cap should be one that is high enough for todays users to not hit even if they stream some movies or do other activities on it. With the speed increasing & more companies putting apps out there, that "suitable" number is probably considerably higher than some seem to think I consider myself to be an "average" user as I don't stream movies, BARELY stream music (as in, maybe 5 minutes total every 2-3 weeks if that), and just news apps/email primarily. | |
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| | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:I would support a truly unlimited data plan if there was allowance to deal with the data hogs and true abusers. WTF??? There is no such thing as a data hog or abuser. People use their connections for different things. You can't judge others based on your usage. How would like it if judge your usage based on someone who uses their internet connection sparingly and only to check email? Usage of your connection is not how the costs are determined. The ISP has to pay for the fixed line and equipment regardless if you use your connection all day or if you never use it. The only way you save the ISP money is if they see you never use your connection so they sell your share of their backbone bandwidth twice (whic is not much as the equipment and physical line still must be paid for). That works as long as you never use your connection, but you can't sustain an ISP like that in the long run as all users are going to use their connections. Many large ISPs are also Tier1 ISPs so they do not have to pay anyone for backbone bandwidth. They own the backbone lines and equipment. If everyone uses their connection for 2 hours a day from 6pm to 8pm that is no different than if everyone used their connection constantly 24/7. The effect on the network is the same so because you don't think you use your connection much does not mean you cost the ISP any less. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadBandwidth is always oversold. If it wasn't, we'd each pay much more than we are paying now.
And simply leaving your device streaming constantly just because you can is pretty much the definition of abuse. | |
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| | | | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 2:08 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by fifty nine: If it wasn't, we'd each pay much more than we are paying now. That is not true at all. How much do you think the equipment and lines costs?? Especially on a wireless where they have no last mile physical lines. Do you really think wireless bandwidth cost more than your cable company or phone company that had to bury lines to every house?? Leaving your phone streaming is not abuse. You can't judge one persons usage to anothers. Also if you stream 24/7 the network would just be as congested if you only did it during peak usage times in the evening. 24/7 usage does not matter. The network must be built for peak usage. Caps do not prevent people from using their connections at the same time. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by r81984:Leaving your phone streaming is not abuse. It absolutely is. No one is listening and you are using data. For what? | |
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| | | | | | SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by fifty nine:said by r81984:Leaving your phone streaming is not abuse. It absolutely is. No one is listening and you are using data. For what? I pay for the data.. I should be able to use it without restrictions instead of that at&t "tells" me what I can and can't do with it. BTW: Voice is data, too.. If you want to get technical. | |
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| | | | | | | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Bad"I pay for data".. Well, if you want data with out restrictions, there's a long tradition of that kinda of service for that kind of use, and it's been billed by the byte LONG before people really even knew what the internet was.
And why do you feel that the owner of the network and the company that is renting you access to that network shouldn't be able to dictate how the product is used? Where do you get this notion that you should have free reign to use it as you chose? If you want wholesale access, there are options for you. If you want residential access, and you want it for a reasonable rate, then you're going to be told what they're willing to accept as far as use goes.
There ARE, however, some fine lines that I believe should not be so fine. I believe in the spirit of the so-called network neutrality. I feel that they should be able to freely sell and price plan the internet so long as laws are not broken and I don't believe the government should be in the way of that. I DO believe that certain rules should apply to a carrier that chooses to price their internet in a certain way, control it in a certain way, etc. These rules should shape the way they conduct and sell that service based on how the path they chose to take.
Some people, however, are confused, and believe that they somehow have a right to the internet, at a cheap rate (what ever that may be) and have complete open access to do "anything I damn well please" with it, oh, and it should, no - HAS to work error free, and needs to be fiber to the home and I want mobile internet so I can do everything there as well, including stream HD TV to my home entertainment system" too..
"BTW: Voice is data, too.. If you want to get technical." No, nobody cares about that because you're saying that in this discussion is an attempt to try to make a point for no reason which offers nothing to the main topic. | |
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to r81984
said by r81984:Do you really think wireless bandwidth cost more than your cable company or phone company that had to bury lines to every house?? It's not just a matter of cost you know. The bandwidth on that tower is shared by every other user on that tower. EV-DO provides a maximum of 3mbit/s per channel. That bandwidth is shared by every single data user on that tower and channel. Do the math on that, it's not a lot of bandwidth. In reality it's probably less than 3mbit/s because that data rate is only achieved under very good RF conditions which may not exist for most users. Cable operates under the same sort of shared bandwidth arrangement but they are starting with a higher number (around 40mbit/s for earlier flavors of DOCSIS) and can split overloaded nodes easier than a cellular company can deploy new cell sites/purchase more spectrum. said by r81984:Leaving your phone streaming is not abuse. It is if you aren't actually using it. What's the point? You are consuming a finite resource for no purpose. Do you also leave your faucets wide open just to spite the water company? | |
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| | | | | | SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by Crookshanks:It's not just a matter of cost you know. The bandwidth on that tower is shared by every other user on that tower. EV-DO provides a maximum of 3mbit/s per channel. That bandwidth is shared by every single data user on that tower and channel. Do the math on that, it's not a lot of bandwidth. In reality it's probably less than 3mbit/s because that data rate is only achieved under very good RF conditions which may not exist for most users. times how many channels? Also, what kind of backhaul are they using? I'm sure 3mbps * 300 1.25MHz channels (375MHz of Spectrum) = 900mbps.. Plus a GbE fiber backhaul and you could easily handle a decent number of users. said by Crookshanks:Do you also leave your faucets wide open just to spite the water company? Depending on where you live. Some places if you don't leave it trickle at night, you could end up with blown pipes due to them freezing. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by SimbaSeven:I'm sure 3mbps * 300 1.25MHz channels (375MHz of Spectrum) = 900mbps.. Plus a GbE fiber backhaul and you could easily handle a decent number of users. Which cellular company are you doing business with that has 375MHZ of spectrum in a market and the ability to devote ALL of that to data services? said by SimbaSeven:Depending on where you live. Some places if you don't leave it trickle at night, you could end up with blown pipes due to them freezing. Umm yeah, I live in Upstate New York. If your pipes freeze you have an insulation problem. My pipes are just fine down to -15 without leaving the tap on. | |
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| | | | r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:Bandwidth is always oversold. If it wasn't, we'd each pay much more than we are paying now.
And simply leaving your device streaming constantly just because you can is pretty much the definition of abuse. I just don't understand what happened to this site. Pre 2005 there were many knowledgeable people and people were not brainwashed shills for these ISPs. Either people are getting more ignorant when it comes to the internet or they are just really gullible to ISP lying advertising and press releases. I just can't understand why everyone has forgotten the last 15 years of unlimited internet and now they seem to think that magically caps somehow fix everything and that people who use their connection more than others are some kind of abusers. Really WTF??? The recent changes to caps and overages is purely a profit endeavor for ISPs it has nothing to do with covering their expenses or reducing congestion. Unlimited internet is highly profitable for ISPs, capped internet is insanely profitable for ISPs and just hurts the consumer that is stuck in this monopoly market. It worries me how uneducated the public is and how far people will go to defend the very companies that are trying to rip them off. In college I never really believed at how gullible people were to advertising over the truth from marketing classes, but damn it is clear on this very site that people will easily ignore the truth over simple tv advertising. | |
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| | flbas1 join:2010-02-03 Fort Lauderdale, FL
1 recommendation |
to fifty nine
yea. those people who leave their TV's on while doing something else. People who get up to get a snack during a commercial. The nerve of people just wanting some background noise while cleaning.
I can agree that it isn't nice to stream and walk away - it will wear out the electronics faster. The (non-green) LCD backlight, the (non-green) battery degrade faster, etc.
but this argument isn't about data hogs and abusers - it is about a couple of guys who threw their phone in the drawer and were still charged.
Personally, I don't see any change coming, except that more people will see the bigger picture - which is the ISP's want to start charging everything at a per-byte level; and that isn't fair.
Think about it - if 300MB wasn't a big deal; then why aren't the caps set at 2.3GB? why are there caps at all? It isn't to deal with the abusers, it is to deal with the money. If the Cell companies spent millions of dollars upgrading, then they imposed caps, and now they are charging - for whatever reason (service pack, phone diagnostics, phantom charges, etc) - it gets down to money. | |
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Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are BadTV (air or cable) is multicast on paid-for, generally one-way, dedicated frequencies, unmulti-tasked frequencies, so you failed.
That's one broadcaster to multiple receivers (with repeating rebroadcast stations) so it takes much, much, much less bandwidth than the point-to-point bidirectional cellular, mobile data on a tower. | |
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| | | | flbas1 join:2010-02-03 Fort Lauderdale, FL |
flbas1
Member
2011-Jan-31 11:10 pm
Re: More Proof that All Data Plans with Overages Are Badsaid by NuShrike:TV (air or cable) is multicast on paid-for, generally one-way, dedicated frequencies, unmulti-tasked frequencies, so you failed.
That's one broadcaster to multiple receivers (with repeating rebroadcast stations) so it takes much, much, much less bandwidth than the point-to-point bidirectional cellular, mobile data on a tower. Please educate me on the ways of UDP. and UDP Multicast. | |
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to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:This is the equivalent of getting unlimited gasoline from the gas station and just leaving your engine running at full throttle all day. Please tell me you have evidence of open data usage totally financially the same as a gallon of gas Please....I would love to see it. My god what an absolute fail | |
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to pnh102
I NEVER hit the 200mb data limit. for the sheer fact i dont watch nor stream radio from 3g. only when using wifi. but yes you got to watch the bill. seeing i notice centurylink charging for something turn off now again.. | |
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IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC |
How?How is it possible to have phantom traffic?
At what level does the screwup occur? | |
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borka join:2003-04-01 Ponte Vedra, FL
1 recommendation |
borka
Member
2011-Jan-31 10:17 am
I device talking to appleIts probably the data thats being generated from the Iphone/iPad talking back to apple, and sending usage statistics and what not. | |
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jsb825 Premium Member join:2003-10-08 Exeter, NH |
jsb825
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 10:18 am
I can see thisWhen the phone goes to standby, it stops using the wi-fi and starts using the 3G. I know this because I watched the packets stop flowing on the wi-fi network, but I was still getting e-mail notifications. My mother doesn't use her phone for any data, but she has strangely used 7 mbs so far this month. I never used more than 5 mb when I had a blackberry and I got loads of e-mail messages. So Apple explain yourself!! Please! | |
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vag16v join:2001-07-27 hereandthere |
vag16v
Member
2011-Jan-31 11:07 am
turning off 3GIn terms of just turning off 3G, as soon as I do that on my iPhone4 the phone drops right off the mobile network completely. That doesn't seem right. Do these iPhones not fall back to gprs or just non-3G data or are they hspa only and thats it? | |
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1 recommendation |
WhyADuck
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 11:54 am
This is why we should all oppose metered billingThis is why I hate the idea of anything other than flat-rate telecommunications services, and always have. I remember reading a story a decade or two ago where a telephone company in some city (I think it was in New York) had been systematically double-billing for local calls - every time a user made a local call, they were charged for two, and this had gone on for YEARS. The phone company wound up having to pay a fine (which amounted to a slap on the wrist) but as far as I know, none of the affected customers ever got refunds. The scheme would probably never had come to light except that city officials hired a firm to audit all telephone traffic going in and out of city offices, and that's when they discovered the double billings, which affected every user in that phone exchange.
With the gas or electric or water company, they put a meter on the side of your home. If you have doubts that the meter is accurate, you can shut off the main breaker or close the main valve and see if it still measures usage, because you can watch the meter in real time to see if any of the dials are turning (and yes, I'm aware that some electric companies are trying to move away from that type of meter, and I will just bet that some of them will be found to be overcharging). To catch an internet overcharger would be much harder because you'd basically have to unplug everything from your cable or DSL modem for an entire billing period (during which you'd still be paying for service) to see if you get billed for any usage. And even that would not catch schemes that overbill as a percentage of actual usage (you use X GB, they bill you for x times 2 GB). | |
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| moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2011-Jan-31 12:15 pm
Re: This is why we should all oppose metered billingAnd that would be nice except the cell phone companies will charge a high "connect" fee and then charge for data. To actually only pay for what you use would actually decrease income and profits. | |
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dellsweigExtreme Aerobatics MVM join:2003-12-10 Campbell Hall, NY |
I verified this and tried to engage ATT........Greetings
Let me start by saying I have an unlimited dataplan.
Over the past couple years, I have noticed that the data usage numbers seemed odd. Just as the article points out - I was being billed for data while my phones were either off or connected to a WiFi network.
I collect netflow data so I tried to show ATT the data that was flowing on my home network from my IPhones and compared it to what ATT was billing as 3G data usage. I got no where - and I can be very persistent. I escalated this ticket and finally received a lame response saying the actual data billing times are batched to there is no relation to what is shown on the bill and reality.
I also tried to push this issue on the ATT Direct Dslreports forum and got the same answer.....
I also tried to point out to ATT that even though my phone was connected to the 3G network (via my home microcell) and WiFi at the same time - they were billing me for 3G data. In actuality, th iPhone was sending large amounts of data via the microcell (3G) INSTEAD of the wiFi connection (verified with Netflow).
I would love to join this suit!!!!! | |
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ohwait
Anon
2011-Jan-31 12:08 pm
Sketchy updates are sketchySo those 3 am updates weren't really from me sleep-using?
Even with no downloaded apps?
Must be the forced apps running info/usage updates w/o my consent. Naughty naughty. | |
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ThrottleThe simple solution to all of this is to eliminate overages and do throttling, like T-Mobile. I'd rather have 200MB with throttling down to Edge speeds than having the headache of worrying if I'm about to hit my cap and be charged an overage. It makes for better marketing as well because of less worry. Just use your phone and if you want to go back to 3G speed the rest of the month, pay to renew the data plan. I'll join the class action because I don't like unpleasant surprises in my bill. | |
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93388818 (banned)It's cool, I'm takin it back join:2000-03-14 Dallas, TX 1 edit |
93388818 (banned)
Member
2011-Jan-31 12:32 pm
This could be easily explainedif AT&T had been let in on this. They can sniff the traffic through their network gateways, these same gateways are the ones that create the billing records that are batch processed.
I for one would love to see what traffic the device was sending. If the packets are inspected and captured, we would know right away what it was.
The consulting firm's "method" of just letting the phone sit for 10 days, isn't very scientific. I don't pretend to know the details of the iPhone operating system, but I also wouldn't assume that just because no applications were running, and no email account was configured that the phone wouldn't use a little but of data over 10 days. There's too many holes in their assertion to take it to lawsuit level, IMHO. First, the consulting firm doesn't even know if the phone sent or received data over these 10 days. If it did, they sure don't know what was sent, or if it was legitimate. If no data was sent, then what created the billing records in the AT&T data gateways?
Too many unanswered questions for me. | |
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Re: This could be easily explainedAT&T is in on it. You are claiming they never tested their own network or never test any phones being used on their network.
Every phone branded by AT&T is heavily tested on the network. AT&T would be testing everything like crazy. You have to in order to make the network reliable.
When these things are happened to a user, AT&T cannot play stupid. They probably made a decision somewhere to charge the user for internal data updates that have nothing to do with user generated traffic. And now it is going to bite them in the ass.
For all we know this phantom data is usage data that AT&T makes branded phones send to them so they can read user behavior to see how people use their phones. | |
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koolman2 Premium Member join:2002-10-01 Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 12:43 pm
Never seen thisI purchased a MiFi from a local carrier ($20/unlimited) and decided to save money by going to the 200 MB plan. I occasionally would turn off cellular data in the phone and leave it that way for days at a time (days off work, don't leave house for more than a couple hours). I would look at my online viewer and find NO data transactions for the entire period.
I also find my phone's built-in data counter to consistently be ABOVE the usage that AT&T says that I've used.
It sounds like the iPhone or iPad is actually using data for random things, not that AT&T is charging for usage not actually used. | |
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| SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT |
Re: Never seen thisHoly crap. 200MB on a MiFi? That's almost suicidal. | |
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| | koolman2 Premium Member join:2002-10-01 Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 6:28 pm
Re: Never seen this200 MB data plan on my iPhone. The MiFi is unlimited. | |
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This is exactly what's wrong with our civil justice systemThese class action plaintiff lawyers are making a huge industry out of lawsuits. They don't WANT to know what the facts are. They simply want to create some kind of vaguely plausible case and hold up a large company for a settlement. Consumers? You get a cup of coffee, maybe.
Look at any daytime TV or some of the lower-class cable channels and you'll see an endless parade of ads asking you to call an 800 number because you could receive MONEY for being harmed by some product, drug, service, or medical procedure. This is getting to be a big economic force which is counter to innovation and competitiveness.
In this particular case, hey, we left the phone off for 10 days and it used less than 3 megabytes. This is less than 2% of even the smallest Grandma plan (200MB/month). Big, freaking, deal.
Yeah it should be researched to find out exactly what the data is. Chances are it'll be something innocuous. But, really, file a LAWSUIT over this? There needs to be tort reform across the board. | |
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r81984Fair and Balanced Premium Member join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX |
r81984
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 1:49 pm
ATT Limited Data Plan Tiers??Why did it take ATT so long to limit their data plans?? 1. Using caps does not increase the performance of their network in any way during peak times. They did not need to rush in using caps to save their network. 2. They wanted enough live data to know how much bandwidth the iphone uses in the real world. They probably see that 99% iphone users go over 200MB or more so they made a 200MB plan that will gaurantee overages. They probably see that people who use their phones multiple times a day mostly use over 2GB a month so they made the 2GB tier to gaurantee overages on them.
We need laws in the country to prevent usage based billing. All internet connections should be unlimited to protect consumers from these companies trying to steal from them. | |
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scross
Member
2011-Jan-31 1:56 pm
Billing fraudListen, folks, if you haven't figured it out by now, "billing errors" are business as usual for the telecom companies. They figure that with enough of these floating around out there, in various amounts, at least a certain percentage (typically a fairly high percentage) are going to get paid without question. Easy profits for the company doing it, and if you pay it and end up fighting it later (you actually have very little leverage in this area, if you want to keep your service), well then they just get to keep your money for free for a while. It's my understanding that the accounting rules which telecom companies operate under are biased in such a way that makes this behavior quite favorable, even if the money itself never gets paid.
Back when I was younger I worked for a company which had huge long-distance phone bills. We had a PBX which monitored all this traffic down to the tenth of a second. The phone companies (there were multiple) were required to send us itemized bills on tape, listing every single phone call in detail. We compared our call record data with theirs, and regularly beat them over the head if there were any major discrepancies. This was a constant and on-going battle, because they might very well fix a "mistake", stay clean and honest for a while, then turn up with a whole new set of "errors" when they thought we weren't paying close enough attention any more.
I even worked with a guy once who had spent years at one of the big guns (a name you would recognize instantly). He said they were told that billing could never and would never be correct, so they spent more time working to build systems for service recovery (to keep customers from defecting) than they ever did fixing the billing problems - even though this was their number one source of complaints. He seemed quite shocked that anyone on the outside like me had such a good idea of how the game was actually played. | |
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faster 3G vs 1.5Mb commercial wi-fiwe all know ATT recommends using your wi-fi to prevent counting against your limit. Not mentioned benefit is a higher response due to lower latency. The one (wi-fi) that has higher speeds will be usually only your own or sometimes workplace. If you go to gym, starbucks, mcdonalds, bookstore, it is usually limited to 1.5Mb. Not taking into account when you are out of range or many people connect to wi-fi and slow down, it seems to be 1.5MB wi-fi is enough just for smarphone.
Last time I was able to watch netflix at my gym (on eliptical machine) on wifi at only 1.3Mb fixed speed and pictures were sharp and high of quality.
When do you think I would need just for smartphone the data rate faster than 1.3mb? Nothing else comes to my mind except downloadable videos, music or applications.
At off-peak hours, I am able to achieve speed on my 3G close to 5Mb down, 1.5 up which is very good. | |
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JohnInSJ Premium Member join:2003-09-22 Aptos, CA |
JohnInSJ
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 5:29 pm
300KB a day?Neat. I don't get that charge. I wonder if they allowed diagnostic data to apple when they activated the phone. That would be funny if they did.
My usage seems to track perfectly on the phone and the AT&T site. I guess I am really lucky. Oh wait, the other two phones track exactly too.
Should be fun to watch. | |
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JohnInSJ |
JohnInSJ
Premium Member
2011-Jan-31 5:34 pm
6.6MB/month...In background internet noise. Sounds about right.
I make that out to be 3% of 200MB, or .3% of 2GB.
Lawyers... they're not good network engineers. | |
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AT&T being sued is not newsBlame all the phone companies because they all do the same thing. They are in business to make money and they will try anything that they think they can justify to get more profit. But that is only the face of the problem. The real problem is that the governing agencies that regulate telecom companies let them get away with it and even encourage it, more profit = more taxes. We would be better served by getting the regulators out of the way and make the telecoms answer to the consumers rather than to some federal, state or local agency. | |
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Bill or WillBill or Will Willy J to you LOL Premium Member join:2002-05-26 Lumberton, TX |
LOLUnlimited data never existed on a mobile network | |
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