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AT&T Sues Verizon Over 3G Ads
Apparently Verizon hit a sore spot....

A few weeks ago Verizon started throwing punches at AT&T in the form of a series of new ads that took direct aim at AT&T's recent network issues and poor 3G coverage (see this ad, for example). AT&T apparently isn't amused, and dropped us a line to note that they're suing Verizon for the ads. According to the suit, Verizon's using "misleading" coverage maps which could result in AT&T suffering an "incalculable" loss in market share.

Click for full size
"The Verizon ads mislead customers into believing that AT&T does not offer any wireless service in the vast majority of the country, which is of course not true," spokesman Seth Bloom tells us. "In our view, Verizon launched the campaign as a response to AT&T’s leadership in smartphones," he says, adding that AT&T has twice the number of smartphone customers as Verizon.

AT&T's argument seems a little tenuous, given the maps Verizon's using are clearly labeled "3G coverage," and do generally reflect AT&T's deployment of HSDPA service. On the other hand, users who don't do their research or understand what 3G even is -- might not know that AT&T offers clunkier EDGE service outside of the highlighted areas, or that their broadband-enabled devices will work there.

AT&T has provided us with a copy of their complaint (pdf), their motion for a temporary restraining order (pdf), and TRO supporting documents (pdf) for those who are interested. "The full measure of damages that AT&T will continue to suffer from the publication of Verizon's misleading claims is difficult if not impossible to calculate," laments the filing. "No amount of corrective advertising would undo the damage."

We sent a follow up inquiry to AT&T asking if they'd be ok with Verizon running the same ads, but differentiating between HSDPA and EDGE connectivity (say, in a lovely shade of teal) -- but have yet to hear back. It seems likely that AT&T's simply interested in stopping the ads so they don't dent the billions in AT&T's fourth quarter earnings too badly. Verizon of course is gearing up to launch the Android-based Motorola Droid on Friday.
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

Truth hurts?


Jim Gurd
Premium Member
join:2000-07-08
Livonia, MI

Jim Gurd

Premium Member

Re: Truth hurts?

I don't think AT&T has a leg to stand on, especially if Verizon got that map from AT&T's website.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Truth hurts?

EGG-ZACKLY!

I hope Verizon wis big on this one.

Buncha whiners.

Niarlan
Excelsior
Premium Member
join:2002-11-09
Manville, NJ

Niarlan

Premium Member

Re: Truth hurts?

VZ should come out fine on this...they hired an independent contractor to map both companies coverage. Since T didn't have a good public map...lol...guess they do now and don't like it

oh my

Nia

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to hayabusa3303

Premium Member

to hayabusa3303
"AT&T's 3G Coverage is just a big fat Global scam."

Oh! We're gonna SUE you!
"What?"

Yeah you think you can say our 3G coverage is a lie! We'll sue you buddy!
"You told me it was a lie!"

Oh now you're putting words in my mouth! You are SO sued!
You can't make fun of AT&T 3G Coverage kid, we're gonna sue your ass and your balls!
YEAH! THAT'S RIGHT!
How dare you mock our 3G Coverage you little punk! You'll be hearing from our lawyers TOMMORROW!


cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL

5 recommendations

cameronsfx to hayabusa3303

Member

to hayabusa3303
Court Hearing

Judge Judy Presiding

"I've read your complaint, AT&T and don't understand it. You....I'M SPEAKING! WHEN I TALK, ZIP IT! GOT IT? You say their ads are false, right?"

"Yes." (T)

"How are they false since the map they are using came from your website?"

"Well, in the other areas we have the EDGE network."

"Is that 3G?"

"No, it is called EDGE but most call it 3G."

"I assume the call quality and Internet speads are the same then, right?"

"That is a technical question. 3G is the main network..."

"So, the EDGE network is the old network, right?"

"Yes, so to speak."

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'SO TO SPEAK'?"

"The speeds are not always the same."

"I read they are quite different. Burt tells me the iPhone doesn't work as well in EDGE areas as they do in 3G."

"That's Burt's opinion."

"HE VIDEOD IT. FAST IN 3G AND SLOW IN EDGE. YOU THINK BURT IS LYING?"

"No, Ma'am."

"So, then, you must agree the ads are correct..."

"NO!"

"I'M SPEAKING!"

"Sorry, Your Honor."

"The ads are correct then. I've seen ads for stuff on informercials that are a load of crap so how is Verizon's ads incorrect? THEY HAVE YOUR MAP!"

"You Honor, we'd like to move to another venue."

"Sorry, YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT TO SETTLE THIS DISPUTE AND THE RULING HERE IS FINAL. GOT IT? DENIED!"

"Verizon, did you have any intent on lying in these ads?"

"No, we used AT&T's own maps."

"Got it. Seems responsible to me..."

"It doesn't to us."

"I DON'T CARE. I DECIDE THE ISSUES. DID YOUR MOMMA EVER TELL YOU TO BE QUIET WHEN ANOTHER PERSON IS SPEAKING? DID LAW SCHOOL TELL YOU TO SHUT UP WHEN THE JUDGE IS TALKING? I BET!"

"Yes, sorry."

"Well, since I think this lawsuit is POPPYCOCK AND UTTERLY RIDICULOUS, I'M DISMISSING YOUR COMPLAINT. Dismiss the complaint and no injunction. Follow me here, counselor?"

"Yes, Your Honor."

"Now, if you have total 3G coverage, WHICH YOU DON'T, you can then sue them. On their counterclaim, I am going to award them the $58,000 in legal fees..."

"You Honor?"

'YES, I DID. $58,000 FOR THE DEFENDANT AND YOUR COMPLAINT IS DISMISSED. GET A BETTER NETWORK! Step out."

On the next Judge Judy, President Obama is being sued over his citizenship. Don't miss it!
Desdinova
Premium Member
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD

1 recommendation

Desdinova

Premium Member

Re: Truth hurts?

Okay, that Judge Judy transcript rules! Great work!!

Boricua
Premium Member
join:2002-01-26
Sacramuerto

1 recommendation

Boricua to cameronsfx

Premium Member

to cameronsfx
That is what she would say too. In fact, I can see Judge Judy talking in my mind as I'm reading this .
jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM

1 recommendation

jarthur31 to cameronsfx

Member

to cameronsfx
That is shitastically riotous!!!

I almost sharted meself.

Almost.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to hayabusa3303

Member

to hayabusa3303
Click for full size
AT&T has lighting fast broadband covering 100% of the United States. Beat that Verizon!!

»www.attwb.net/

compuguybna
join:2009-06-17
Nashville, TN

compuguybna

Member

Re: Truth hurts?

Yeah, using WILDBLUE, which isn't an AT&T service.
said by patcat88:

AT&T has lighting fast broadband covering 100% of the United States. Beat that Verizon!!

»www.attwb.net/
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Truth hurts?

said by compuguybna:

Yeah, using WILDBLUE, which isn't an AT&T service.
said by patcat88:

AT&T has lighting fast broadband covering 100% of the United States. Beat that Verizon!!

»www.attwb.net/
But its called "AT&T High Speed Internet via Satellite" not Wildblue. And AT&T already says its offered by them, not Wildblue »AT&T Wants 100% Broadband Coverage By 2014 .
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Truth hurts?

it says Provided By WildBlue. So yes, the service IS NOT provided by ATT in fact just most likely resold services
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Truth hurts?

said by hottboiinnc4:

it says Provided By WildBlue. So yes, the service IS NOT provided by ATT in fact just most likely resold services
Who provides it isn't the question. Its sold by AT&T.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

1 recommendation

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: Truth hurts?

said by patcat88:
said by hottboiinnc4:

it says Provided By WildBlue. So yes, the service IS NOT provided by ATT in fact just most likely resold services
Who provides it isn't the question. Its sold by AT&T.
no, the question is whether that service is for mobile devices. It is not. It's for homes.

Your troll attempt was weak. Try harder next time.

iLive4Fusion
Premium Member
join:2006-07-13

iLive4Fusion to patcat88

Premium Member

to patcat88
Actually I can't get AT&T Wild Blue at my lake house . I can though get Verizon 3G!! Tree's cover too much for it to work. And AT&T Wireless has CRAPPY EDGE only which is flaky at best.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Agreed...

The map clearly states 3G coverage...

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

I think..

Click for full size
Verizon has a larger 3G network covering a larger amount of the United States.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: I think..

said by Robert:

Verizon has a larger 3G network covering a larger amount of the United States.
Yeah, I think that's been covered already.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Robert

Premium Member

to Robert
Here is a Verizon map that compares against Sprint & T-Mobile as well as AT&T:
»vzwmap.verizonwireless.c ··· ison.pdf

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: I think..

said by FFH5:

Here is a Verizon map that compares against Sprint & T-Mobile as well as AT&T:
»vzwmap.verizonwireless.c ··· ison.pdf
That's accurate. Clearly VZW beats AT&T, which would explain AT&T's lawsuit. If it wasn't true, AT&T would fire back with research, data, commercials, etc.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: I think..

No it's not. It's horribly outdated. It may say "as of August", but I can see clearly that both the ATT and the T-Mobile coverage maps are at least 6 months outdated.

asdfghjklzx5
Premium Member
join:2004-05-03

asdfghjklzx5

Premium Member

Re: I think..

I'm a t-mo customer and noticed that they just added 3G coverage in the Fresno area a few weeks ago. When I bought my touch pro 2 in August, there was no 3G in Fresno. They have a long way to go to catch up with the other carriers though!

Pingmeister
@embarqhsd.net

Pingmeister to tiger72

Anon

to tiger72
said by tiger72:

No it's not. It's horribly outdated. It may say "as of August", but I can see clearly that both the ATT and the T-Mobile coverage maps are at least 6 months outdated.
I guess in this case, court cases and legal representation are cheaper than keeping maps current.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Verizon should do outdoor ads with that poster or something. It's all the modern-day customer needs to know: "Here's why our plans are the most expensive."

Plus, Sprint doesn't look half bad in that map, what with Simply Everything weighing in at MUCH less than Verizon charges for a similar smartphone plan.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: I think..

Sprint should do an ad on 4g coverage and see who shuts up then.
fjr3020
join:2008-07-22
Miami, FL

1 recommendation

fjr3020 to iansltx

Member

to iansltx
I think Sprint has tons of 3g compare to ATT and t-mobile. There plan prices are cheap compare to verizon and there costumer Service has improve since 2006( I think costumer service is now better than ATT and verizon). I just don't see how people not notice this. Sprint has a great 3g coverage best plan prices and a great selection of phone. Were did i go wrong.
MRCUR
join:2007-03-09
Lancaster, PA

MRCUR to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
WOW. That right there is an ad in and of itself. VZ should really just show that (as the comment above says). Sprint doesn't look half bad. Poor T-Mo looks horrible there.

fancydancer
Perception is just your reality
Premium Member
join:2002-08-28
Springfield, IL

fancydancer

Premium Member

Save your time and resources

by not suing Verizon and build out your 3G network! Sheesh!

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

1 recommendation

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Save your time and resources

said by fancydancer:

by not suing Verizon and build out your 3G network! Sheesh!
There you go bringing logic into the discussion...

gdm
MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL

1 edit

gdm

MVM

Not truly 3g

Click for full size
Click for full size
I thought the map Verizon is showing shows there voice network not the 3G network. I know areas they show on that map as 3G aren't. Honestly VZ's site is a bit confusing with all the variations of data services. It should just show 3G period not so many variations.

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
caco
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK

caco

Premium Member

Too bad this will get settled

I would love to see ATT argue this in a trial but chances are it doesn't get that far.

Big Red must have hit an artery or something.

•••••
MTU
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

MTU

Premium Member

Too Much Cash

Obviously AT&T has way too much extra cash laying around to waste same in this idiotic lawsuit.

•••

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Seems pretty clear cut to me...

The maps and ads clearly say 3G coverage. Is AT&T trying to say there map is not showing all of there 3G coverage or what? In fact, when i saw this commercial, I was quite surprised how LITTLE 3G coverage AT&T actually has....Everyone likes to down Sprints coverage, but by the looks of that, Sprint even has them beat..heck, there 4G is on there way to having them beat!

•••••

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
Premium Member
join:2007-09-07
Nashville, MI

Belinrahs

Premium Member

Truth hurts, doesn't it AT&T

I looked at AT&T's 3G coverage map and compared it with Verizon's representation of AT&T, and looked at Verizon's 3G coverage map (on their website) compared to the one in the ad. Both cases, they look pretty accurate. If the court looks at it the same way I did, Verizon has nothing to worry about with this case. Verizon has SOME SORT of coverage in all 50 states (regardless of how small) and AT&T hasn't got any of their own 3G coverage in both of the Dakota's, Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska.

Perhaps this will be a wakeup call for AT&T to get moving on the 3G buildout? And it just shows how incredibly bad of a decision Apple made in choosing AT&T to offer their iPhone with.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

Go, Verizon, Go!

What are they suing for, "definition of character?"

It's about time that Verizon grew a pair and rightfully started challenging its brethren.

Great job, VZ(W)!

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

1 recommendation

Steve B

Premium Member

To AT&T.....

Cry me a f'in river, build a bridge and get the f over it.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: To AT&T.....

said by Steve B:

Cry me a f'in river, build a bridge and get the f over it.
I'd rather they build more 3G markets than a bridge

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to Steve B

Premium Member

to Steve B
said by Steve B:

Cry me a f'in river, build a bridge and get the f over it.
LOL @ that one.

Sham2038
@optonline.net

Sham2038

Anon

coverage

who cares about coverage if its in your area it doesn't matter then
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: coverage

That's the concept behind many local carriers, plus MetroPCS and CricKet. However my Florida relatives on MetroPCS have to roam in my area of Texas (albeit cheaply/for free) and CricKet coverage sucks back home and their network is overloaded here (Denver).

If I wasn't hopping between central TX and Denver (and stuck around Central TX) I'd probably have a Millenicom-powered Sprint aircard and would convince the family to sign up for a local carrier that has $10-per-month unlimited add-a-line service on free BlackBerry Curves (the new ones that look like the Bold) and awesome coverage. Of course, I'd use my original iPhone on that network and use WiFi whenever possible because that local carrier's data network was atrocious last I checked, but you get the idea.

If you're in an area with four or five 3G providers (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, CricKet or US Cellular) then good for you. However God help you if you want to use your phone at high speed elsewhere and have TMo, CricKet or AT&T.

PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD

PGHammer

Member

Re: coverage

The DC/Baltimore area is in exactly that sitch (all except US Cellular provide 3G in DC; Sprint ups the ante with 4G/Clear in B-more). The reason I recommend VZW is not everybody is a homebody (heck, if you merely want to go to WV or DE and have anyone but VZW for 3G, you're in a world of pain).
gworkman
join:2005-10-18
Las Vegas, NV

gworkman

Member

AZ Maps...sad but true

Funny that when I travel to the southern end of my state and visit in Nogales, AZ, I get a strong 3G signal...from Mexico.

It amazes me that AT&T has lacked any aggressive plans to build out their 3G network.

I, too, hope that Verizon creates an ad slamming AT&T for this frivolous lawsuit.

geo37027
join:2009-11-03
Brentwood, TN

geo37027

Member

twice as many smartphones :/

"spokesman Seth Bloom tells us. "In our view, Verizon launched the campaign as a response to AT&T’s leadership in smartphones," he says, adding that AT&T has twice the number of smartphone customers as Verizon."

what has that got to do with anything? gimme a break...

at&t really does think we are stupid. they are probably right, but that's not Verizon's fault.

of course, what really matters is, how stupid will the judge be?

Murdoc49
Premium Member
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI

Murdoc49

Premium Member

Just sue each other out of existence

Just no honor among crooks!
LostMile
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI

LostMile

Premium Member

Redline Telephone & Telegraph strikes again

I think they dug their own grave.

According to Verizon's map, it appears like T cherry-picked the areas where they wanted to deploy 3G. As a result of their own frugal actions, they now have a smaller coverage area than Verizon.

They only have themselves to blame.


openupshop
join:2000-11-25
Chandler, AZ

openupshop

Member

We can thank the Alltel Puchase!

With the Alltel purchase this really boosted Verizons coverage in rural areas. Sorry AT&T you lost this one!
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: We can thank the Alltel Puchase!

Yep. AT&T even got some of Alltel's rural bits, but Alltel was a CDMA-primary company and thus didn't deploy HSPA on any of their network. So while Verizon got a VERY solid (albeit Rev. 0 in many areas, though that's easily fixed) network with tons of 3G, AT&T got a smidgen of GSM here and there.

Timeto start doing a 3G buildout, boys. Here's hoping the judge saves VZW some money and throws out the case. That was Verizon can add some backhauls to their towers around here, many of which seem to only be connected via a T1. Better than EDGE though...
amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America

amungus

Premium Member

Re: We can thank the Alltel Puchase!

Indeed. Amazed that they offer 3G where I am (used to be Alltel...). Suddenly the turf has been "assimilated." Sprint offers decent data service here too, though I've seen (3G/)4G cards in the store for months now... would be cool to see that here!
...EDGE is the best AT&T and T-Mobile have here...
......My carrier, U.S. Cellular... no 3G here

At least it looks like they're trying to cover the same area as analog used to. I recall an old AT&T car-phone (analog) that worked in all sorts of places. Either way, CDMA is just more prevalent here it seems... As some have pointed out, even Sprint has some mojo these days when it comes to areas actually covered, and covered well.

...Just a bit of history here...
From:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad ··· e_System
Alltel — In 2005 disclosed that only 15% of their total customer base are still using the existing analog network. The company has posted a three phase turn down schedule, which was completed in September 2008. With the recent acquisition of Western Wireless, Alltel now takes the claim of the "largest network in America." The claim was true, oddly enough because of wide analog coverage in rural areas. All Alltel AMPS and D-AMPS service was discontinued in September 2008

JGN
@sbcglobal.net

JGN

Anon

eh

I think it's suing for deformation of character

At&t coverage is larger then that but their faster HSPA coverage is exactly that small. But What one doesn't realize is that At&t has more 3g users in those area's and their network is a ways faster then Verizon. It's a bit misleading on Verizon part as people think all 3G is equal when they are not.
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006

Member

Re: eh

The ad isn't about the |speed|of the network, it is about the |size| of the network. Big difference.

As an example, I am sure that the people in Georgia SOUTH of Atlanta could care less how fast the AT&T 3G network is IN Atlanta because they can't get it.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Fix It

I hope Verizon countersues and wins big. The maps are accurate and so are the ads.

If AT&T doesn't like the fact that Verizon has more 3G coverage than AT&T, then AT&T should get off its rear end and expand 3G coverage.
QLR
join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL

QLR

Member

slow mo AT&T

I find it quite funny that AT&T is launching 3G coverage in areas where Verizon, Alltel, & Sprint had 3G for years. For instance, T did a press release regarding their expanded 3G foot print in central/south Georgia. Verizon has had 3G in central GA for almost 2 years (at least)... before they bought Alltel, Verizon built out PCS service in GA and launched 3G on it last year!!!! The way T is moving, Sprint's 4G coverage will be equal to T's 3G.... sheesh!!!!

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: slow mo AT&T

said by QLR:

I find it quite funny that AT&T is launching 3G coverage in areas where Verizon, Alltel, & Sprint had 3G for years. For instance, T did a press release regarding their expanded 3G foot print in central/south Georgia. Verizon has had 3G in central GA for almost 2 years (at least)... before they bought Alltel, Verizon built out PCS service in GA and launched 3G on it last year!!!! The way T is moving, Sprint's 4G coverage will be equal to T's 3G.... sheesh!!!!
It's basic economics. Verizon, Alltel, and Sprint are effectively running the same networks they've had for almost 15 years. Simply upgrading from CDMAOne (Is95) to CDMA2000, to 1xRTT to EVDO Rev 0 to EVDO Rev A.
It's much cheaper to expand and upgrade existing infrastructure.

ATT, on the other hand, has had 3 distinct networks. AMPS, GSM, and UMTS are all 3 different technologies. GSM's only viable upgrade was EDGE. UMTS has the benefits of HSPA (in the form of HSDPA and HSUPA), and HSPA+ (21mbps and 42mbps).

The costs of deploying 3 networks, vs upgrading the same one mean that coverage will definitely take a hit.
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