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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: O RLY? said by kapil  :...ask anyone who lived in USSR....no choice, high prices. They had DSL in the USSR?
Heck, did most of the people in the USSR even have access to landline phone service at all?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
 ·XO COMMUNICATIONS
·Comcast
·Covad Communications
| Re: O RLY? said by pnh102 :They had DSL in the USSR? Heck, did most of the people in the USSR even have access to landline phone service at all? No...but they did have lots of government sanctioned and owned monopolies. Which resulted in zero choice for the consumer.
You want a car? Call The Car Company. You want Bread, call The Bread Company. Just like now, in the U.S., you want DSL, call AT&T (or Verizon, depending on who owns copper in your neck of the woods)
Don't you see? lack of government oversight has landed us in such a swamp that we will be lucky if we escape it....the mortgage mess from lack of oversight of banks is not that much different from the lack of competition in the communications field due to lack of oversight of telcos.
This hands-off policy of the last 7-8 years has bankrupted this country and lined the pockets of the very few at the top.
--
»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
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| | | Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
| Re: O RLY? I would take exception to your assumption that the lack of oversight of banks is the cause of the mortgage mess. The blame needs to be shared with those people that took out mortgages that they knew would be a problem for them to repay when the interest rate changed. You have just as much greed from the individual buyers, in some cases, as you do from the banks. | |
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| | | | | Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX
edit:
February 2nd, @10:49AM
| Re: O RLY? Isn't ethics and the entire real estate industry, like used car sales, an oxymoron??
And the above observation was made prior to the past 7 years. | |
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| | | | | kcir
join:2005-07-30
Butner, NC | To make matters worse executives of this failing companies are leaving with severance packages in the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars. WTF is the only comment I can come up with. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| I blame the banks as much as I blame the borrowers.
It isn't like the banks don't have tools with which they can verify peoples' credit. The banks knew full well that these borrowers were in no position to pay these loans back once the rates re-adjusted but chose to lend the money anyway.
Any "bailout" will simply enrich these banks at the expense of the taxpayers, and only serve to encourage more bad loans.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| Clearly you slept through clas the day they taught market economics ad why the USSR had no choice and outstripped demand.
By having central planning dictate what would be produced and for how much it would be sold for, there ended up being a glut of cheap poorly made products on the market. But because that's all people could get they'd always be a high demand because central planners would almost always fail to predict demand because of naive notions on politics and economics.
It had nothing to do with monpolistic practices. Unless you consider the USSRs monopoly on force as counting.
So why you think central plannig can fix this is anyone's guess. | |
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| | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
edit:
February 2nd, @12:25PM
| Re: O RLY? Actually central economic planning is a rather successful method of running the government and there have been multiple examples of this in the past (most of them aren't PC though). The real downfall of the USSR was caused by the lack of incentive because everyone paid according to their need and ability rather than being paid according to what the market decides, that is the socialist/communist versus capitalist philosophy. Also the USSR cared more about buying weapons than caring for its people. So you have pig farms, but no ham, instead you have pig farms and AK47's are what make it to market. | |
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| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: O RLY? Outside of a small commune I don't see where you could find successful central planning. | |
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| | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: O RLY? The third Reich, China, Japan... | |
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| | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| Re: O RLY? Hey now..to be fair they weren't exactly the same. Those were more fascist/socialist in that the state and industry worked together. China less so... but when it was a strong central planner it stunk. Remember all that wasted Chinese steel from the GLF? | |
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| | | | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
| Re: O RLY? True, but what does it really mean to be a fascist/socialist state. I mean political ideology is separate from economic planning to a certain extent. On some levels fascism promoting national unity may have been helpful, but on the other hand human evolutionary psychology would indicate that humans don't give a rats ass beyond their immediate social circle. Then we have the Japanese example as well to consider, which makes Weimar Germany a valid example.
The Chinese steel example makes sense, but we can offer equal anecdotal evidence against non centrally planned capitalist states (bridges to no where, franchise agreements, etc?). We are also talking about a China that isn't plagued by overly nationalistic ambitions (China in the status quo). Certainly under Mao you could say central planning was a failure. Capitalism was a failure under certain African states. In reality those failures were a result of political climate. | |
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| | | | | emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | Seems to me the Third Reich's planning sucked pretty bad.
wig | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
 ·Corporate Colocation
| Re: "NON SEQUITUR" AT&T post said by TK Junk Mail :» AT&T To Raise DSL PricesComing on the heels of an outage in AT&T's 3G and Edge network that affected many Midwestern states, the Chicago Tribune is reporting that the telco will be tacking on an additional $5 a month for its DSL service And what exactly does a 3G/Edge outage have to do with a DSL price increase. Except maybe just another dump on the telco rant? A way to generate revenue to fix whatever caused the 3G/Edge outage?  | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: "NON SEQUITUR" AT&T post said by kapil :Yes, of course...how dare anyone criticize a power and money hungry corporation. It does not follow. It does not compute. Hey, I don't expect anything but criticism of telcos and cable from the BBR front page. But, at the very least, they should avoid tying 2 completely disparate items together in their quest to attack the telcos.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| If I called Charles Manson a pedophile, would you denying that equate to you defending a murderer?
Of course no one likes a company that you have to send a chunk of cash to every month. No one expects you to praise them. But that doesn't mean anything under the sun counts as valid criticism. | |
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | DSLPrime? Does anyone else find it maddeningly frustrating trying to read DSLPrime? It's like a squirrel on crack typed it up. The main page has broken images, broken links ... I can't even find the referenced quote from the DSLR news blurb. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: DSLPrime? said by MattE :Does anyone else find it maddeningly frustrating trying to read DSLPrime? It's like a squirrel on crack typed it up. The main page has broken images, broken links ... I can't even find the referenced quote from the DSLR news blurb. That is because it isn't there.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
edit:
February 2nd, @11:03AM
| Re: DSLPrime? double post | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | I'd like to see an expose on the "true cost" of grain.
"Well it only costs a farmer a few dollars for seeds that will grow enough grain to feed a family for a month." | |
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| | | disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| Re: DSLPrime? said by bogey780 :I'd like to see an expose on the "true cost" of grain. "Well it only costs a farmer a few dollars for seeds that will grow enough grain to feed a family for a month." Well on the true cost of DSL, all you need to know are the following:
•cost per gross add (subscriber acquisition costs)
•cost of churn/retention
•recurring (or incremental) OPex per month
•taxes
DSLPrime has done a good job of looking at the 1st and 3rd items. His numbers for incremental OPex are larger than the $1/month for bandwidth that he's studied elsewhere. Once you have the 1st and 3rd, the 2nd and 4th are easy to figure out. | |
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digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring
join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH | Ah... You again. | |
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| disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| said by MattE :... I can't even find the referenced quote from the DSLR news blurb. DSLPrime says the same thing here: »www.dslprime.com/News_Articles/n···cles.htm
The average cost per user for the broadband bandwidth is less than $1/per month for a $20-50 service.
That was from his post dated October 24, 2007. | |
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MTU
join:2005-02-15
Santa Maria, CA
| AT&T Rate Increase Monopoly, Duopoly and Oligopoly? Depending on market, limited choices and regulation further distills the customer base. The haves and have-not.
As for Russia and NET - The new rich (oil and mob) have everything and are now sending buying groups to San Francisco (& elsewhere in US) to 'acquire' properties from the decimated real estate market.
»www.waytorussia.net/Practicaliti···net.html | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
·Optimum Online
| Hod wash "AT&T is claiming in a statement that popularity of video and music downloads as well as photo sharing and online gaming are behind the increase, citing the "billions of dollars [AT&T invests] each year to stay ahead of these trends" plus the current "market conditions"."
Translation: We need these extra monies to make the stock holders happy...
--
Reach out and Tap someone! | |
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| Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| The Right Thing Anyone who follows my diatribes knows that I'm no AT&T fanboy so I don't even want to hear it.
I have Elite so it seems I'm immune to the price increase, but in general I think this is the correct approach. I'm against them trying to charge the Google's/DirecTV/Microsoft's of the world... I pay for my connection and on the whole our subscriptions should pay for the cost of doing business. My speed is consitent and my circuit performs as advertised. Until the day everything becomes congested, I think it's premature to say that they are greedy pigs raising the rates just to increase profits. It'll be obvious if they improve their network or not. | |
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Neyland85
join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC | Re: The Right Thing Really? Hmmm for those of us that can't get the highest tier due to ATT's limitations, I need to spend more on my bill?
How about if you have the highest DSL service they offer in your area the price doesn't go up? | |
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| | | 
Logan 5
Dungeon Runners - Come get your Bling on
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: The Right Thing said by Neyland85 :Really? Hmmm for those of us that can't get the highest tier due to ATT's limitations, I need to spend more on my bill? How about if you have the highest DSL service they offer in your area the price doesn't go up? From the 2nd paragraph in the article:
said by DSLR :
"Apparently, customers paying for the highest-speed elite plan will not see an increase nor will those who have long-term contracts"
I am on a 1 year contract ATM so I too sould be 'exempt' from this, but come my contract re-rate date (in July I beleive) I will definately need to make a choice as to if I want to continue with AT&T or move to another provider at that time.
'Cmon now, if you're gonna misquote the article to support your position, at least misquote the entire relavent section....  | |
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Neyland85
join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: The Right Thing I never quoted the article, simply posed a question as I'm an ATT custmer in the Bellsouth territory (see the location under my avatar)and currently have the highest speed DSL package they offer in my area which is the 3mb service. Other areas of the former Bellsouth territory have 6mb service. Should they use the same terminology to effect a rate increase in my area, would I have to pay more because I'm not on their highest tier, even though their highest tier is not availible to me?
I'm not on a contract, one wasn't required when I signed up. | |
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Logan 5
Dungeon Runners - Come get your Bling on
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN | Re: The Right Thing Thanks for tha clarification...  | |
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| | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by Neyland85 :I never quoted the article, simply posed a question as I'm an ATT custmer in the Bellsouth territory... Does AT&T Southeast even have the prices for the speeds mentioned in the article?
quote:
The increase affects DSL plans, each with a different connection speed, that now have monthly charges of about $15, $20 and $25.
Those look like at&t Yahoo! HSI prices, only in effect in the legacy SBC regions, where DSL prices are lower then in any of the other U.S. ILEC areas, or AT&T Southeast.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Neyland85
join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC | Re: Hod wash More like, we've found that we can't make it on copper so this is to jump start our fiber roll out LOL. | |
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birddog
@bellsouth.net | buying filter equipment This is for the money they need to implement internet filtering | |
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ztmike
Premium
join:2001-08-02
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
| FiOS SAVE ME (seriously) Damn, I wish FiOS was here, arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
--
"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Good said by dslwanter : Armstrong Cable when they finish installing FTTN across the township. Details? | |
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dslwanter
Cablewanter
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Good said by patcat88 :said by dslwanter : Armstrong Cable when they finish installing FTTN across the township. Details? We've had a real shitty no name cable company that changed every couple of years or so. Someone good, Armstrong, finally bought it. The cable system out here was never upgraded beyond the old analog cable system that was in place before cable companies started upgrading and offering digital cable, broadband, and all the good stuff.
A cable system of today consists of fiber to nodes and coax to homes. DOCSIS 3.0, once implemented, will work over the same system and be able to compete with Fios and U-Verse.
--
"You're as worthless as a screen door on a submarine!" Check out my Internet Radio Station & DJ Service, »www.thebomb102.com. | |
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rid0617
join:2003-07-20
Greer, SC
·AT&T Southeast
·AT&T DSL Service
| Bellsouth territories Well we were wondering when they would lower the price in the BS territory to equal AT&T prices. Guess what they're going to do is raise their prices to equal BS. I have an old button from the 70s that says "AT&T reach out and F--- someone". Guess it's time to dig it out of the closet. | |
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cahiatt
Premium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA | Congratulations AT&T For actually raising the price of the service instead of adding a $5 "modem connect fee" or some other bogus charge. | |
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| 
XBL2007
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Congratulations AT&T said by cahiatt :For actually raising the price of the service instead of adding a $5 "modem connect fee" or some other bogus charge. They keep raises prices though, I had 3000/512 for $17.99 at one time and now that deal will be $30. AT&T is going backwards. | |
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ace1974
join:2007-06-09
Goldsboro, NC | How else are we going to get our raise There has to be a raise on prices. Im trying to hit the 75000 dollar barrier this year. So we telco techs need our raises..... Just work some more overtime to offset your price increase lol!!!! | |
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Reese1972
join:2003-03-08
Madison Heights, MI |  We paid millions to break up the monopoly
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: We paid millions to break up the monopoly It was a totally different world then. Besides, what does that have to do with current price increases? | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| U-Verse Tie in? Is this a veiled attempt to push people to U-Verse? Before increase reg. Pro DSL was 3/512 for $25 and Uverse 3/1 DSL was $30. Now they'll both be $30(plus now ya get double the upload for 'free'). Difference for Elite plans of $35 reg 6/768 and $40 for 6/1. Seems better to stick with older DSL for elite unless Syncs are higher on Uverse or they later raise the reg. elite to $40 too.
I see for now AT&T has a 3 mos. (upgrade) free deal going on $10 back on bill for 3 mos. with upgrade from Pro to Elite. Course after the price increase, difference in price is down $5 for double the speed. Ugh. | |
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Logan 5
Dungeon Runners - Come get your Bling on
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-25
The WasteLAN
·Pacific Bell - SBC
edit:
February 2nd, @01:45PM
| I am wondering 1 thing about this rate hike Does anyone think that this increase be passed on to their competitors who sell service through AT&T leased circuits?
In other words, would for example, DSLextreme who runs their lines through AT&T's infrastructure, also see an increase in costs associated with leasing lines from AT&T and pass that along as another "fee"??
I hope not...... 
ed. clarity of thought | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
| No no no, you have it all wrong.... The price increase is a GOOD thing. They are going to need LOTS of money to monitor you, so you should be thankful you will get the privilege of being able to pay for your monitors. Don't you want to protect the children? Do you want to feed the fat cat MAFIAA execs? Don't you understand. If you don't support the price increase, then you are supporting the 'terrist'. Remember, only terrorist use torrents to distribute their plans to destroy all that America used to stand for. Freedom, Liberty, the right to be secure in your homes. If you don't support this, ALL those rights will just go away.
So stop your whining, it's your patriotic duty to help pay for people to watch everything you do.
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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ztmike
Premium
join:2001-08-02
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: No no no, you have it all wrong.... said by karlmarx :The price increase is a GOOD thing. They are going to need LOTS of money to monitor you, so you should be thankful you will get the privilege of being able to pay for your monitors. Don't you want to protect the children? Do you want to feed the fat cat MAFIAA execs? Don't you understand. If you don't support the price increase, then you are supporting the 'terrist'. Remember, only terrorist use torrents to distribute their plans to destroy all that America used to stand for. Freedom, Liberty, the right to be secure in your homes. If you don't support this, ALL those rights will just go away. So stop your whining, it's your patriotic duty to help pay for people to watch everything you do. Sounds like something president W. Bush or the AA's would say, coming from you ..supposedly in Iraq, I'm not surprised either, joking or not.
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"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush | |
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| | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: No no no, you have it all wrong.... Actually, I AM in Iraq. And IRAQ is looking a lot like the US will be in the future. You MUST have your ID card displayed at all times. There are random checkpoints where they verify you. You DON'T have the right of free speech. You DON'T have the right to be secure in your home. It's basically a police state, much like the US is turning into.
The sad part, is there is still a lot of killing and bombs. All the security in the world CANNOT STOP someone who is willing to kill themselves for their religion.
What do I see in the US? Exactly the same kind of militant, government sponsored monitoring of the citizens. Police carrying assault weapons everywhere. Police 'above' the law. Privacy destroyed for the semblance of security. For me, at least, I recognize the flaws of the Bush Regime, taking away ALL our liberties, all in the name of 'security'. That's not the country I really want to go back to. At least here, there is no Megacorp sponsored gestapho police breaking down doors to arrest people. But the end result is the same, the US is turning into a country our founding fathers would be ashamed of. The government overstepping their rights, to SUPRESS the population. A world where you aren't allowed to question authority, and if you do, you are thrown in jail. Call the US 'china minor'.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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Syncognition
join:2008-01-12
Winter Park, FL
| Lame Man am I glad I'm in Embarq land with price for life DSL. The only time your price can change is if you change your package or move to a place where your pricing/type of service is not available.
Why is it that EQ is lowering the cost of DSL while AT&T is increasing it? Probably because AT&T is a more dominant force in its markets and being nimble/competitive is not as necessary. I seriously doubt this has anything to do with Bandwidth costs. | |
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| kcir
join:2005-07-30
Butner, NC | Re: Lame you're DSL price didn't increase we just added a $20/mo cost of service charge for the line. | |
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| | Syncognition
join:2008-01-12
Winter Park, FL | Re: Lame naked DSL is available, you just have to cancel the access line. There are also no surcharges on the DSL service, only sales tax if it applies in your state. | |
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Bell Guy
@surewest.net
| So what's the $5 for? As a rank and file AT&T employee... I'm hoping the $5 price increase will spurn a wave of new hirings, training, and better stock of replacement equipment.
Somehow I doubt it. We already run our network on the cheap.
1) The techs both in the Central Offices and outside crew don't have spare circuit packs on hand to replace failed equipment.
2) We are running a skeleton crew in the central offices, outside crews, and in the network surveillance centers. We are back-logged hundreds of repair tickets when it comes to inter-office lines (including optical carriers which the FCC is now starting to fine us on).
3) Training is crap. Very few people (if any) know how to diagnose and repair our newer fiber optics equipment (yes that includes the ones used to carry UVerse service... 40 OC192s on one fiber).
Most of us haven't seen a hint of any light at the end of the tunnel... | |
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XBL2007
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: So what's the $5 for? said by Bell Guy :
As a rank and file AT&T employee... I'm hoping the $5 price increase will spurn a wave of new hirings, training, and better stock of replacement equipment.
Somehow I doubt it. We already run our network on the cheap.
1) The techs both in the Central Offices and outside crew don't have spare circuit packs on hand to replace failed equipment.
2) We are running a skeleton crew in the central offices, outside crews, and in the network surveillance centers. We are back-logged hundreds of repair tickets when it comes to inter-office lines (including optical carriers which the FCC is now starting to fine us on).
3) Training is crap. Very few people (if any) know how to diagnose and repair our newer fiber optics equipment (yes that includes the ones used to carry UVerse service... 40 OC192s on one fiber).
Most of us haven't seen a hint of any light at the end of the tunnel...
The CEO needs a bigger Yacht...nothing for you little people.
PS: They had HUGE PROFITS again this year. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: |
|
AT&T To Raise DSL Prices
"NON SEQUITUR" AT&T post
Good