  Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:2 ·Verizon FiOS
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Mike
Mod
2015-Jun-2 2:07 pm
either one of two things happensThis kills the iPhone OR T-M is going to have a HUGE jump in market share as all the pissed off ATT and Verizon customers bail now that everything is equal.
$200 for a phone now became $649.92 over 24 months. Bonus. They will make more money on the same hardware if you do not upgrade immediately.
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"If something about the human body disgusts you, complain to the manufacturer" - Lenny Bruce
What this country needs is a good five dollar plasma weapon. | |
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smk11
Member
2015-Jun-2 2:22 pm
Re: either one of two things happenssaid by Mike:This kills the iPhone OR T-M is going to have a HUGE jump in market share as all the pissed off ATT and Verizon customers bail now that everything is equal.
$200 for a phone now became $649.92 over 24 months. Bonus. They will make more money on the same hardware if you do not upgrade immediately.
I'll bet the former but not "kills." Transparency in smartphone pricing is going to kill off the $650 device. This will likely be the last straw. "Why is the iphone15 not $199?" Money is going to be made from grandfathered data plans getting screwed over by this. | |
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Re: either one of two things happensiPhone didn't take off at first until Apple convinced ATT to subsidize for $200. Will be interesting to see how this impacts iPhone sales in US. | |
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Re: either one of two things happenssaid by existenz:iPhone didn't take off at first until Apple convinced ATT to subsidize for $200. Will be interesting to see how this impacts iPhone sales in US.
A few things could happen and it applies across the board to all smartphone brands and not just iPhones. 1-avg prices may drop some from Samsung & Apple 2-people will hang on longer to their phones past 2 yrs 3-some lower priced Chinese phones will start gaining ground | |
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| | | | KearnstdSpace Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:2 |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 4:37 pm
Re: either one of two things happensI think it will be all three.
No more subsidies means prices will drop to keep moving product, Or at least everybody but Apple will drop prices. Apple might keep that 600-700 dollar price range under the idea of some "premium" image.
People holding onto phones longer means companies have to motivate people with lower prices to not hold on longer.
And lower priced chinese phones? why not even if they are kinda shitty it brings in competition. And Competition is never ever a bad thing.
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Filan - Aurin Spellslinger - Pago - Team Legacy | |
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Re: either one of two things happensYes all 3 and...
4-drives more people to buy fairly new used phones | |
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en103
Member
2015-Jun-2 6:52 pm
Re: either one of two things happensFor me... AT&T killed all subsidies, and as a result made it a clean decision to migrate to T-Mobile. | |
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to Mike
said by Mike:This kills the iPhone OR T-M is going to have a HUGE jump in market share as all the pissed off ATT and Verizon customers bail now that everything is equal. Ignoring that such phones like the: Galaxy S6, Galaxy S6 Edge, Galaxy Note, HTC One M9, LG G4, etc are all as expensive as or more expensive than the iPhone. Heck, my GS5 was as much as an iPhone. And it's a much, much worse piece of hardware and software. It's also not just the iPhone - it's all phones on Verizon and AT&T. | |
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Poots
Anon
2015-Jun-2 4:03 pm
Re: either one of two things happensYou're forgetting that all of the devices you mentioned are MUCH better than any Apple device. And MUCH more worth the $$! | |
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Re: either one of two things happensFanboyism doesn't really work anymore. All manufacturers and especially Samsung/Apple are happy to charge a price that maximises profit margins while delivering minimal improvements in each revision.
I have an iPhone 4S and a Nexus 5 (main phone). I can't see a reason to move away from either of them - nothing groundbreaking has happened. The theme seems to be to have a slightly larger or higher density screen than the competition and charge a ridiculous amount of money for it to come with double or quadruple the storage of the base model.
In some respects the S6 is a downgrade because you lose the micro SD slot and the removable battery.
It's like computers - at one time you very likely did have to upgrade yearly (or even sooner) to run the latest software, but today a 5 year old machine will run Windows 8 or Windows 10 almost as well as a modern one | |
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to Poots
After years of having to tinker with Androids to make them work right to only have the carrier fuck it all up with some overnight bloatware update I decided to try the iPhone. One of the best changes I've ever made in a phone.
I just want the phone to work without having to constantly screw with it. I don't want to learn 123423 different GUIs either. I can pick up any idevice and it's all the same.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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| | | |  bobjohnson
Premium Member
join:2007-02-03
Spartanburg, SC
 ·T-Mobile US
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Re: either one of two things happenssaid by battleop:After years of having to tinker with Androids to make them work right to only have the carrier fuck it all up with some overnight bloatware update I decided to try the iPhone. One of the best changes I've ever made in a phone.
I just want the phone to work without having to constantly screw with it. I don't want to learn 123423 different GUIs either. I can pick up any idevice and it's all the same.
Same reason I use Windows Phone. --
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Re: either one of two things happensI'm finally done with windows too. I got pissed over a forced reboot in the middle of a circuit turn up that took 3 additional reboots to get back online.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company. | |
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to Poots
said by Poots :You're forgetting that all of the devices you mentioned are MUCH better than any Apple device. And MUCH more worth the $$!
LOL. I own a GS5 It and Android are garbage compared to even my previous iPhone 4S. The phone lags, seems slow, has useless features that cannot be disabled, and generally is not that good. Can't wait until the iPhone with 700a comes out then this thing is going to the dump where it belongs. Android is like Windows - it works poorly on a lot of hardware and is a disjointed mess. The iPhone is more restrictive but generally is an integrated system. | |
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Re: either one of two things happensI like the simplicity of iOS but it's just too simplistic for power users. I don't follow lag comments, you can install Google Now launcher to replace Samsungs. And can also now disable bloat.
I gave an old Android phone to elderly relative and it is much easier for him to use than iOS because of the way I setup home screen. Everything he needs is on the front page - texts/vmail are listed right there, weather, direct dial icons to primary contacts and a couple apps - even flashlight and hotspot icons. It's locked down so he can't mess it up. Of course it means I'm his support guy but is easier for him than even iPhone.
iOS has its place and tuned for a particular customer base, as is Android. | |
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| | | | |  koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2015-Jun-3 11:27 am
Re: either one of two things happenssaid by existenz:you can install Google Now launcher to replace Samsungs. And can also now disable bloat. I shouldn't need to modify how my phone works out of the box to get it to function correctly. This has always been my pet-peeve of Android. | |
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Re: either one of two things happensSo iOS is better for you, not for me. More power to ya. You like iOS for being consistent and simplistic. I like Android for its flexibility and customization. We both win. | |
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| | | | | | | koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK |
koolman2
Premium Member
2015-Jun-3 4:00 pm
Re: either one of two things happensYep. That has always been my stance - use the device that works best for you. Getting in pissing matches over it is stupid. | |
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Re: either one of two things happenssaid by koolman2:Yep. That has always been my stance - use the device that works best for you. Getting in pissing matches over it is stupid.
Yes, nice to chat about competing tech w/out a hmmm, troll from Cleveland. | |
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| | | | | H_T_R_N
Premium Member
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1 |
to existenz
said by existenz:It's locked down so he can't mess it up. Wait, so your saying that a locked phone is better then an unlocked one? | |
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Re: either one of two things happensNo, I locked his homescreen setup so that he doesn't scramble it up, which was happening. Though I showed him how to unlock if wanting to make changes. | |
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|  Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1 |
to Mike
I would like to see it lead to an end of carrier exclusives. | |
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| |  Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY |
Re: either one of two things happenssaid by Michail:I would like to see it lead to an end of carrier exclusives. I am hoping for the same. Given the fact that manufacturers are packing support for as many LTE bands as possible into their latest phones, it's getting easier and easier to take phones across carriers, provided that they are fully paid off and unlocked. Things should only get easier when carriers start doing away with 3G/2G and relying solely on LTE. --
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies.
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill.
If the opposite of pro is con, then the opposite of progress is Congress. | |
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| | |  Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985 |
Jim Kirk
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 7:42 pm
Re: either one of two things happensI know if you buy the right iPhone 6(+) model from Apple or a Nexus 6 from the Google store they are usable on all 4 major carriers. Would love to see this on all phones. | |
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KingPen
Anon
2015-Jun-2 9:43 pm
Re: either one of two things happensIt's coming soon. I also believe locked phones will begin to disappear in favor of unlocked phones such as the iPhone 6+ and Google Nexus 6. Maybe one day the cell phone mfg will make standard, phones with screens that can hold up to reasonable impact from a drop....then there's water resistant capabilities as standard. Am I asking too much? | |
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| | | | | Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1 |
Michail
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 10:00 pm
Re: either one of two things happensI think Samsung, Apple and Microsoft have gotten to a point where they don't need the carriers cooperation as much as they did in the past. They market and sell direct to consumer. | |
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ARRIS SB6141
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X
Ubiquiti Unifi UAP-AC-LITE
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to Jim Kirk
Ideally, carriers need to get their hands off of the phones they are selling and all phones should be usable on any carrier by default. I could see special deals here and there between phone makers and carriers but overall carriers need to quit installing junk software on phone and controlling how they function. | |
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MoreNames98 to Mike
Anon
2015-Jun-2 4:02 pm
to Mike
said by Mike:$200 for a phone now became $649.92 over 24 months. Bonus. They will make more money on the same hardware if you do not upgrade immediately.
you do realize that Verizon gives customers on Edge plans or who are out of contract $15 monthly discount for 4 GB or less and $25 for 6 GB or more. $25 X 24=$600. Thus $650-$600=$50. Seems like a better deal than a 2 year contract. | |
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|  Kramer
Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
kudos:2 |
to Mike
said by Mike:This kills the iPhone OR T-M is going to have a HUGE jump in market share as all the pissed off ATT and Verizon customers bail now that everything is equal.
$200 for a phone now became $649.92 over 24 months. Bonus. They will make more money on the same hardware if you do not upgrade immediately.
I can only speak for Verizon since I am most familiar with their plans, but doing away with the subsidies is only going to have a minimal effect on some and may even nudge others in a cost savings way. $200 for a phone v. $649.92 over-simplifies the situation to the point of obscuring the truth. When you purchase a phone on Edge, you are given a subsidy in a different way. You either receive a $15/month discount or a $25 per month discount depending on the size of your data plan. These discounts are essentially subsidies that are taken away when you buy a contract phone currently. The subsidy with the $25/month discount is greater than the subsidy with the contract phone. With the $15 discount the subsidy is essentially the same. You also continue to receive these discounts after the phone is paid off. You can buy your phone elsewhere as I did for my wife with the Moto-X and still receive the discount on service as well as take advantage of competition in phone prices. I'm glad to see the contract phone go away as long as these discounts for not having one, remain. You pay more for service when you buy a contract phone and this complicates the transaction needlessly. | |
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to Mike
You do realize that $200 phone was never $200, that was simply your down payment and the remaining $449.92 was paid in that 24 month contract.
I would be willing to go out on a limb, though I am just guessing as I have no clue on the numbers but can speculate based on a known cost, that that $200 went right into the pockets of the carrier to make up for the $250 - $300 they actually paid Apple for the phone. | |
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| Michail
Premium Member
join:2000-08-02
Boynton Beach, FL
kudos:1 |
to Mike
On AT&T I've found the discounts for the next plan and payment plans to be a wash out over contracts or only differ by +/- $0.01. One added benefit is they don't screw you for more than the phone's paid off value if you terminate.
Also, I think it leads to people paying for repairs more than they would have before. | |
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smk11
Member
2015-Jun-2 2:24 pm
Re: Still available in AT&T stores it seems...Temporary. ATT will keep it until the are confident of no blowback. | |
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to ptrowski
And it's not just the iPhone. But that is the line that gets people in. "Verizon/AT&T ditching Galaxy S6 subsidies" would not generate any hits. | |
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Anno
Anon
2015-Jun-2 2:41 pm
People are foolsIt's funny how sad it all is.
People are soo blind and think they are getting a good deal. Oh no contract... Ummm yes still contract... You just moved it from service to hardware...
Lets see in some cases they take maybe 10 bucks off the plan for example, well 10*24 is 240 saved.
But now instead of 199 or even say 249 or 299 you now pay a nice 649.99...
I liked subsidized myself more. I actually saved more money.
People don't see the plan prices are creeping back up. Tmobiles unlimited use to be cheap, now it's up to what 80 bucks... so if you pay 80/month for a plan and now stuck another 20+ for your phone (WITH a hardware/financial contract on that) please tell me how you have no contract and are saving money? lol | |
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butwith ATT next they are not changing the fact that you can upgrade early. It cost us 124 dollars to make my wifes line so we could get rid of her m8 for a s6. Then we just continued to pay the payments. | |
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Well that kind of sucksWill the Apple loyalists be comfortable with paying $450 more for their phone while still committing to a 2 year contract? Does this mean VZ will finally remove it's logo from the phones? And will VZ remove that obnoxious red screen showing their logo when the phones are booted? I can't wait for Xiaomi phones to reach the US. A lower cost, high quality alternative is just what we need over here. | |
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| Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985 |
Jim Kirk
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 7:46 pm
Re: Well that kind of suckssaid by NLiveris:Will the Apple loyalists be comfortable with paying $450 more for their phone while still committing to a 2 year contract? Uh... Paying full price for a phone means there is no contract. | |
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I'd like to see contract prices drop then..But I know it won't happen. The think about subsidized phones, was that the cost of subsidizing was built into the price of the contract. Now if they are making you pay full price, then that value in the contract should be removed. Of course they won't do that, it becomes pure profit.
It's fine if you pay full price and go prepaid. Makes no sense to go contract when you suddenly own the phone outright (assuming you pay full retail and don't go down the payment plan route). | |
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Re: I'd like to see contract prices drop then..They have already done this. Both AT&T and Verizon give a discount if you are not under contract. For Verizon it is $15 per line for plans =6GB. For AT&T is is $15 per line for plans =10GB. | |
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MoreNames98
Anon
2015-Jun-2 3:09 pm
Just a correctionNow, Verizon's basically just letting you pay off the phone over your two year contract. Huge difference between a 2 year contract and a Edge payment in which you pay off a device over 2 years. The first being you get a line access discount for being on the Edge plan no discount for being on a 2 year contract. Second you can end your Edge contract early and upgrade by paying off the phone. With a 2 year contract you can't end it unless you pay a ETF and that's only if you're leaving for another company. Why anyone nowadays would get a 2 year contract is beyond me. Especially if they have a 6 GB plan or higher.
iPhone 6. 2 year contract vs 2 year Edge
Contract
phone $200, upgrade fee $40, sales tax $24( in my area 10% )total =$264
line fee $40, 6 GB data $70, taxes/fees( my area ) $5.75 total = $115.75. Total over 2 years=$2778
Total costs for 2 years $2778 + $264 = $3042
Edge
phone $650, sales tax $65 total $715( and yes I know you pay for it over 24 months still comes out to $715 )
line fee $15, 6 GB data $70, taxes/fees $4( less because of lower line fee )=$89. Total over 2 years =$2136
Total cost over 2 years $2136 + $715 = $2851
Edge saves $191 over 2 years. And as I said if you really wanted to upgrade before 2 years Edge allows for that. Just pay off the balance. Contract doesn't have any options to upgrade early.
Now even if one was only getting the $15 Edge discount instead of the $25 one, then the contract would save $67 over 2 years. I'd pay the equivalent of $2.80 a month for the opportunity to upgrade earlier than 2 years.
Also with Edge your only paying the sale tax upfront. In this case $65. On a 2 year contract you're paying $264. Why would anyone pay $199 more upfront? Heck if you were going to pay $264 upfront I'd just put that on a down payment on the Edge plan lowering the monthly total to $18.80 a month and if I'm getting a $25 a month discount you see I'm actually making my bill LOWER than a contract plan. | |
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Re: Just a correctionYep, I was about to post this(but not in anywhere near the detail you did  ). I did comparisons of going with EDGE vs contract when I moved to Verizon. It was quite a bit CHEAPER to go EDGE for the 2 yrs than it was for a traditional 2yr contract(3 lines/phones). Since we took the 15gb plan, the $25/mo savings on each line added up quick. Even at the $15/mo for the lower gb plans, I think we still would have come out less than a traditional 2 yr contract. Plus I only had to cough up the tax amount on each phone, and not the $700+ it would have been for the subsidized price of the 3 phones. | |
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amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America
kudos:1 ·Cox HSI
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amungus
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 3:25 pm
business?Wonder if they're removing this from business plans as well.
Going to be tons of fun to explain to people that they'd have to do this on a corporate acct. (I manage several lines...). Even more fun for accounting and HR to deal with on their ends of things (billing / payroll). | |
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 ilikemeI live in a van down by the river.
Premium Member
join:2002-08-27
Stafford, TX
kudos:1 |
ilikeme
Premium Member
2015-Jun-2 6:02 pm
I'll just buy my phones outrightI prefer just to buy my phones and pay for them and full instead of being stuck on a monthly payment plan for them. | |
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clone
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN |
clone
Member
2015-Jun-2 7:30 pm
This is great news!I've been buying phones at full price anyway ever since Verizon stopped allowing new contracts on unlimited data lines. Now they have no carrot to dangle in front of me to entice me to give it up! | |
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 IowaCowboyIowa native
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1 |
I buy on EdgeI plan on paying off my iPhone 6 plus and my Droid Maxx before I upgrade them. I'm not going to go through what I went through again.
I probably won't buy the next iPhone as it will probably be the 6S. I'll probably wait until the iPhone 7 to upgrade. And if I buy the iPhone 6S I'll pay off the balance on the 6 and keep it.
We have those EcoATMs where I can ditch phones for cash.
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Xfinity X1 Awesome Product
Comcast: Buy out the Iowa cable market from Mediacom so my friends can experience X1
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Ditching subsidesAfter reading this article I want to begin making plans for my next upgrade this fall.
I have 2 lines & 2 gigs of data is plenty.
For the areas I work in, I am a field tech working almost exclusively in the hinter lands, I need Verizon service.
Do the prepaid CDMA providers use all the same towers as Verizon?
I already know TM & Sprint don't work just about everywhere I work according to my customers.
ATT is sketchy most places. | |
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 DHRacerTech Monkey
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA |
Big deal...I added an iPhone 6 to my account for my SO and I simply paid 100% for it at an Apple store so I could get the AppleCare at the same time. I didn't buy the base model either.
I so wish carriers would drop subsidizing phones and even these payment programs and just make everyone pay 100% for every phone. Then maybe, just maybe, plan prices can drop if carriers stop rolling subsidy costs into their plans.
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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Re: Big deal...I can't see people paying $500 to $700 for a phone. People would buy their phones on eBay or Craigslist or from a local seller. This would make online prices more expensive though but it might cause store prices to drop because less people will be buying there. | |
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MoreNames98
Anon
2015-Jun-3 9:12 am
Re: Big deal...said by mikedz4:I can't see people paying $500 to $700 for a phone.
People do. T-Mobile did away with subsidies 2 years ago. Lately they've gained more customers than anyone. Last quarter 65% of at&t upgraders uses Next and 50% of Verizon customers used Edge. Why wouldn't I pay for price? I can get a 2 year contract for the LG G4 on Verizon for $200 plus $40 upgrade fee plus tax( about $24 ). Or I can pay $550 plus tax( about $55 ) upfront and get a $25 a month discount for NOT having a contract. After 2 years that's $600 in discounts on a phone that cost me $605 total. When you also take into account the taxes/fess every month are $1.75 less which is $42 over 2 years. I basically get the phone for free AND Verizon gives me $37 vs paying $242 on a 2 year contract. That's a $279 difference | |
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subsidiesSubsidies were a great way for Apple (and others) to hide the actual costs under the veil of the wireless service charges. I'd say about 5 out of 10 people couldnt tell you the cost of their phone, but they were ofcourse paying for it, in full with the contract. And they happily did so year after year.
The carriers did a great job of making it look like they were doing customers a favor ("free" phones with 2 yr contracts, upgrades etc). It also gave consumers the impression the devices were cheap and the price is just what the service costed.
In other words, carriers intentionally DIDNT make it clear the total monthly service cost included the subsidy.
Who knows how many millions of customers kept their phones years after the contract ended, while the monthly charge never dropped.
This alone was a cash cow. These days, data is the new cash cow.
Thank goodness for T-Mobile. Transparency is improving.
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Satmex 5 | 970 | DirecWay SRS | Ver. 4.0.3.9 DAK403_P8 | |
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