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AT&T, Verizon: Privacy Advocates Extraordinaire
When it suits them and looks good...

Given that Verizon and AT&T deliver all of your data wholesale to the NSA without oversight, and were subsequently given immunity from civil prosecution by Obama (among others), it's interesting to see the outraged reaction to a potential intrusion into Obama's privacy.

Several Verizon Wireless employees have been suspended for accessing Obama's phone records, with Verizon issuing a string of public apologies for the intrusion. Verizon tells CNN they've alerted "the appropriate federal law enforcement authorities" concerning the brief intrusion, and will fire any employees who acted inappropriately. Verizon Wireless CEO Lowell McAdam ensures CNN that "nobody was monitoring voicemail or anything like that."

Good thing that's settled. We wouldn't want the private data of one of the nation's elite treated with anything but the utmost respect for the law. Accessing and transmitting your data, without your approval, free from judicial and Congressional oversight or legal liability -- and in potential violation of privacy and wiretap laws -- remains ok. A one-off exploration of Obama's SMS history is cause for immediate action, but documented intercept and mockery of private citizen communications is something we might look into -- sometime.

As some sprinkles on this cupcake of privacy irony, AT&T this week spearheaded the creation of a new privacy astroturf organization think tank dubbed the Future of Privacy forum. In standard AT&T lobbying fashion, the group's primary goal has absolutely nothing to do with privacy -- it's to prevent the creation of laws that would prohibit them from collecting and selling your browsing data via deep packet inspection (a la NebuAD).
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knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

knightmb

Member

Some more details on the cell phone breach

Another link to the story here:
»www.cnn.com/2008/POLITIC ··· dex.html

You seem to have two stories in one, but I guess the focus is about AT&T new AstroTurf group. What else would we expect here, doesn't shock me at all.

On the note of cell phone records, it was never difficult to find the numbers for George W. Bush (I had access to those when I worked at a company that did the government phone system for them) But everyone knew better at the company than to prank call the President.

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Glaice

Premium Member

Re: Some more details on the cell phone breach

That doesn't stop them from doing it once Bush is out of office in January..

knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

knightmb

Member

Re: Some more details on the cell phone breach

That's true, I guess he will get a lot of prank calls after Jan 20

I think a good point though, at least in the Verizon case, if you have more than one human involved with access to something they shouldn't be accessing, expect it to get accessed, LOL.
caco
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK

caco

Premium Member

Re: Some more details on the cell phone breach

One of the news articles says President-elect Obama hadn't used the phone in some time.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

2 different animals related to Verizon actions:

1 - data provided to the NSA to gather info on terrorism did have gov't oversight whether anyone thinks they should have provided that data or not.
2 - employees acting on their own to satisfy their own curiosity is not in the same ballpark. And actions to punish employees for doing so by Verizon is std procedure and appropriate.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

2 edits

jc10098

Member

Re: Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

Dude I'm so sick of your posts.

1) Data given to the government had NO OVERSIGHT as they were warrantless wiretaps

2) Employees readily admitted to spying on Americans (Soldiers, Aid Workers, etc) and being told to do so by their higher ups.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

said by jc10098:

1) Data given to the government had NO OVERSIGHT as they were warrantless wiretaps
Of course there was oversight by the government - just not the courts(which is only 1 part of the government).

Metatron2008
You're it
Premium Member
join:2008-09-02
united state

Metatron2008

Premium Member

Re: Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

Read the constitution before you post next TK, and try and understand why liberals won the election (Hint: Due to republications who pretend to stand for small government and bs everyone)
LowRider
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA

LowRider

Member

Re: Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

Democrats ran the congress for the last two years. if they would of tried harder they could of stop alot of things. but for some reason they just FOLLOWED the REPUBLICANS.
»www.senate.gov/pagelayou ··· ydiv.htm

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Yup. Left hand of the gov't didn't know what the right hand was doing.
Absolute power corrupts..absolutely.
cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
i sort of agree there was 'oversight', but that's because the bush administration ordered it. they ignored to whole bit on getting a warrant for millions of phone lines and possible internet connections.

i don't mind so much telecoms getting off hook completely. why really pisses me off is that people that ordered are getting no attention and are not being held accountable.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

jc10098 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Oversight.. by Whom? The people who gave the blank check to go about the program any way they saw fit. Ya, that's real checks and balances taking place. Maybe you need to read the constitution a bit better where it says there are courts in our system to make sure the government doesn't get too powerful. Judicial system. Ever heard of that before? Probably not.
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

1 edit

amigo_boy

Member

Re: Data used by NSA did have oversight - the US gov't

said by jc10098:

Maybe you need to read the constitution a bit better where it says there are courts in our system to make sure the government doesn't get too powerful.
I think there's also something about guilty until proven innocent?

If you think 18 USC 2511's recognition of Executive power is unconstitutional, or was abused by that branch (or, misapplied by Congress when they referred to it as the basis for so-called "immunity"), the solution is to take your grievance to the court. Not sit around talking about how the current administration "broke the law."

I understand the EFF *finally* did this. Too bad they wasted a year on personal-injury lawsuits. All that did was force Congress to put even *more* congressional intent behind 18 USC 2511(!). A very important element in determining whether the President abused that law.

Mark

packetscan
Premium Member
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT

packetscan to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
If you call NSA "listeners" passing around phone sex conversations among themselves, between army and their wifes.
- yea i can see how that is beneficial to the war on terror.

This is a Verizon problem.. why did they not have a lock on the account? - I haven't seen a company that can't lock records so a Manager or Supervisor must unlock the records.

Verizon dropped the ball yet again.
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

amigo_boy to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

2 different animals related to Verizon actions:
Right. One was defined as legal by law (18 USC 2511). The other isn't.

Not surprising Karl blurs the two.

Mark
Antonlm
join:2004-09-15
Birmingham, AL

Antonlm

Member

They should be fired

If they did this without specific business reasons.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: They should be fired

Fired and then turned over to the feds to be dealt with. And the best part---NON-UNION! VZW is non-union so they don't have anyone to stand up for them and complain that it would be unfair to fire them.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Antonlm

Premium Member

to Antonlm
said by Antonlm:

If they did this without specific business reasons.
They were fired:
»news.cnet.com/8301-1035_ ··· 1_3-0-20

Madness
Like a flea circus at a dog show
join:2000-01-05
Lynn, MA

Madness

Member

Bell

I find it odd that a Bell System logo was posted for this story. This BS would've been unheard of back then!

RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT

RayW

Premium Member

Re: Bell

said by Madness:

I find it odd that a Bell System logo was posted for this story. This BS would've been unheard of back then!
It was, just that some of the article was was more accepted at the time than it is now but it is easier to do today, and the media is more hair triggered to get the first word out. Also, news dissemination is much faster due to the internet, computers, and automated offices than it was in the 50's, 60's.

As far as the employee firing, depending on their level/position in the company, they could have been fired and the media would most likely never post it, if they heard about it.

Many folks forget that Bell and the US government were very cooperative with each other in the 50's and 60's. Even after the split, in the 80's, a briefcase full of blank John Doe warrants would give access to all the records, with the information filled out on the spot if the investigator found something he wanted to copy (different technology than today, they had to go to the telco office to copy it).

QuakeFrag
Premium Member
join:2003-06-13
NH

QuakeFrag to Madness

Premium Member

to Madness
said by Madness:

I find it odd that a Bell System logo was posted for this story. This BS would've been unheard of back then!
I wan't a telegraph line.

Shamayim
Premium Member
join:2002-09-23

1 edit

Shamayim

Premium Member

Vz & AT&T: We're shocked, shocked!

Karl framed the issue perfectly. One standard of outrage for the favored elite, another for the rest of us poor schlubs.

And I can't help feeling that if this had been John McCain's privacy that was breached, no one would care.

RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT

RayW

Premium Member

Re: Vz & AT&T: We're shocked, shocked!

said by Shamayim:

Karl framed the issue perfectly. One standard of outrage for the favored elite, another for the rest of us poor schlubs.

And I can't help feeling that if this had been John McCain's privacy that was breached, no one would care.
Nothing new about that, I went through one of the anti-porn/child abuse internet monitoring sites some time ago and the escort was giving us some information on some of the "kids" talking (made this sailor boy blush) on the screen. Most were normal sick Joes, but probably an eighth (just my poor memory) of the scum she pointed to were said to be untouchable because of money or politics. And it was both male to boy and male to girl conversations (and yes, women do it too, but there were none on that day).

Always has been and always will be, with money and connections you are treated differently unless you screw up big time and in public, piss off someone even more elite, or irritate the media.

As far as McCain, you are not implying the media has bias are you? [innocent look]

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium Member
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

POB to Shamayim

Premium Member

to Shamayim
said by Shamayim:

And I can't help feeling that if this had been John McCain's privacy that was breached, no one would care.
At least not unless it got out that he had phone sex with Bible Spice. I mean, she had to blow someone to get on the gee oh pee ticket because it certainly had nothing to do with her intelligence.

I Use Dial
join:2004-01-04
Morgan Hill, CA

1 recommendation

I Use Dial

Member

Heil Obama!

Heil Obama!
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

viperlmw

Premium Member

Re: Heil Obama!

said by I Use Dial:

Heil Obama!
FUD!
soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX

soothsayer15

Member

Standard Idiots in the Workplace Issue

I've worked at different companies were employees had access to regular & VIP accounts. People were made well aware who should not be in certain accounts and the consequences for doing so. But every few months some moron would get caught going through their boyfriend/girlfriend's(or husband/wife's)account or some VIP's account and get fired. People do idiot things like that at almost any kind of job. They even act shocked when they are told they are being fired.
Craig08
join:2008-03-31
.

Craig08

Member

AT&T, Verizon

The biting irony... given immunity from civil prosecution and now the look on Obama's face. Average Joe must really be screwed.
RL1138
join:2008-11-14
Wallingford, CT

1 edit

RL1138

Member

The whole thing is a joke

The whole situation makes me sick and I blame both parties for it. The "oversight" is a joke considering the courts are bypassed. I don't count on the government providing oversight to themselves. That's the inmates running the asylum. Furthermore, I don't think any of this will do a thing to stop terror but will provide the elite a little nice tool to blackmail each other with and on lower levels, listen in on phone sex. Way to go on the war on terror. I feel so much safer.