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AT&T: We Don't Mind Cell Phone Unlocking
Provided Certain Conditions Are Met...
Last week the White House responded to complaints that cell phone unlocking is now illegal by effectively punting the issue to Congress, with various politicians now scurrying to get their names in lights with new laws making cell unlocking legal again. While it's unclear if any of these bills will succeed, AT&T for one says its users don't have to worry. In a blog post, AT&T says they'll unlock any device provided certain conditions are met:
quote:
While we think the Librarian’s careful decision was reasonable, the fact is that it has very little impact on AT&T customers. As we make clear on our website, if we have the unlock code or can reasonably get it from the manufacturer, AT&T currently will unlock a device for any customer whose account has been active for at least sixty days; whose account is in good standing and has no unpaid balance; and who has fulfilled his or her service agreement commitment. If the conditions are met we will unlock up to five devices per account per year. We will not unlock devices that have been reported lost or stolen.
Sina Khanifar, the activist who launched the unlocked phone petition to begin with, argues to USAToday that AT&T's policy doesn't go far enough:
quote:
I'm not sure what 'fulfilled his or her service agreement commitment' means exactly. In what cases would they not give out an unlock code? Why does the account need to have been active at least 60 days? How about customers who travel internationally within the first 60 days of a contract and want to avoid exorbitant roaming fees? And finally, how about a consumer who buys an AT&T phone second hand to use on the T-Mobile network and has no relationship with AT&T?
Khanifar is now busy working on fixing the DMCA's anti-circumvention clause responsible for the ridiculous unlocked phone ban in the first place. AT&T customers who've asked for AT&T's cooperation to unlock your device, how easy has it been for you?
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me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

Doesn't seem too bad.

Just pay your bills, and fulfill your contract. The 5 per year limit is BS though.

Like I said, seem, it could still be crap.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: Doesn't seem too bad.

I don't understand why should anyone have to beg to their provider to have a phone unlocked in the first place.

If providers are so worried about losing money "invested" in the "relationship" via subsidies, there is already a legal mechanism in place to ensure they don't lose money: it's called the contract. And since subscribers no longer have the right to go to court in many of these cases (the contracts list arbitration as the sole remedy, unless the provider chooses to do otherwise), there is very little cost involved for providers.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: Doesn't seem too bad.

Subsidy lock:

1. Control prepaid roaming ($5/min overseas gouging)
2. Control secondary market (aka prepaid, MVNO). Limit supply
3. Control cross use (only want on vendor, not competitor -- extension of 2
4. Easier to get customer into new plan (aggravation is the key to success)
5. Arbitrary rules to confuse customers, just like AT&T....

The crux of this lock --theoretically in their minds-- is essentially a secondary valve to control a person from taking a phone w/ a deadbeat account and easily selling it to say a guy to flash to cricket.

Within 2 years (or sooner) there will be universal basebands, even LTE so a phone XYZ should be able to be used almost anywhere, so these guys have lots to worry about. At that point a sub lock will be purely punitive. Hopefully google can continue to churn out nexus phones that put pressure on these guys.

Even if ETF is the recourse, this makes it harder, and now ILLEGAL. So these yoyos are happy. The above are just frosting on the cake, and I'm sure some bean counter figured those out long ago.

James007
@optonline.net

James007 to NOVA_UAV_Guy

Anon

to NOVA_UAV_Guy
The argument carries no sense to me.
The phone lock is similar to having a lien on your car or a mortgage on your house until you paid for it in full.
As a consumer, I choose to forgo certain liberties in the hardware that I purchase in exchange of a heavily discounted price, as much as USD400 in the case of a top-of-the-line device. So, as a consumer I benefit from the equation.
The lock is the only guarantee that the service provider has to recoup its investment in service fees.
Don't like to have a locked phone?
You can always buy one unlocked at full price and choose the service of your liking.
Have you fulfilled your contract with the service provider?
Then (and only then) the service provider should be obliged to unlock the phone automatically, without even being asked. Only then the phone really belongs to the user. Quit pro quo.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: Doesn't seem too bad.

So the contract that one signs to get a subsidized phone, and legal ramifications of not fulfilling it, are not enough? The provider gets their pound of flesh from you whether or not you fulfill your contract, thus the subsidy lock is only punitive in nature and completely unnecessary.

kevinds
Premium Member
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB

kevinds to James007

Premium Member

to James007
"Don't like to have a locked phone?
You can always buy one unlocked at full price "

No, some phones you can buy unlocked, but not a wide selection of phones.

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

joako to James007

Premium Member

to James007
If you have a lien on your house it doesn't affect what plumber you can call to fix your toilet or what brand food you can put in the fridge.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

1 recommendation

Crookshanks

Member

how is the White House "punting"?

My understanding is it's the Librarian of Congress that determines the exemptions. He holds the job until he decides he no longer wants it. President Obama took an oath to uphold Federal Law and has no authority to change the DCMA unless Congress passes new legislation that he can sign.

What can the White House do about this issue, within the boundaries of Executive Authority and the United States Constitution?
Expand your moderator at work

Mike
Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA

1 recommendation

Mike to Crookshanks

Mod

to Crookshanks

Re: how is the White House "punting"?

The White House can make a statement and ask someone in Congress to sponsor the bill.

The president can then lobby for changes.

Or he can sack the Librarian of Congress and find someone that is more open to the idea.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy to Crookshanks

Premium Member

to Crookshanks

Re: how is the White House "punting"?

said by Crookshanks:

What can the White House do about this issue, within the boundaries of Executive Authority and the United States Constitution?

For starters, the President as Chief of the Executive Branch could instruct all executive agencies (CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.) to not prosecute any cases against cell phone unlockers for DMCA violations for the present time. He would be well within his rights to do so, and would not be breaking his oath or any laws.

His oath was to uphold the Constitution and our laws; instructing agencies under his control to hold off on prosecuting cases until a later date doesn't mean that the law isn't being enforced; it just means that determination of guilt or innocence for charges related to cell phone unlocking is postponed to a later time.

Secondly, the President does have the authority to grant pardons at his sole discretion. Technically there would be nothing stopping him from announcing that any criminal convictions for DMCA violations will be automatically pardoned as long as he's in office. That, of course, wouldn't stop civil proceedings from being filed - but would keep people out of jail.

Thirdly, the President could use back channel communications to put a stop to this. I'm sure that a number of companies who would file civil suits and push for convictions of cell phone unlockers depend upon relationships with government agencies and "access" for favorable legislation and findings. As Chief of the Executive Branch, the President could issue policy for all agencies that they are to immediately cut all ties with any company that pushes for any prosecution of cell phone unlockers. The loss of "access" and influence would far outweigh the loss that any unlocker could create, thus creating a significant disincentive for companies to push for prosecution.

Were I the President, I'd probably opt for some combination of all 3 of the above.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: how is the White House "punting"?

awesome civics lesson
roboiii
join:2013-02-20
Cypress, CA

roboiii to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks
He actually took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
That being said I do agree that the president has no authority to legislate or change law. He shouldn't even be suggesting things to congress. His job is to execute the laws that congress passes and act as commander in chief after war has been declared.

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Re: how is the White House "punting"?

said by He shouldn't even be suggesting things to congress. [/BQUOTE :

tell that to the other side, they seem to think he is responsible for all the lack of legislation

ptb42
join:2002-09-30
USA

ptb42

Member

Won't unlock for international travel

As the article points out, the subsidy lock prevents you from using a pre-paid SIM when traveling internationally. As a result, you have to pay exorbitant roaming rates for SMS, voice calls, and data.

The one time that I tried to get AT&T to unlock my phone for this reason, they refused. I had been a customer for about 15 years. However, It ended well: I bought a gray market phone on eBay for about $100. I used it during my extended trip, and it later became a working spare when my original phone died.

Given the ETF, I think the subsidy lock is pointless. You have committed to paying off the subsidy if you leave before the contract ends. Maybe AT&T thinks that will keep people from bailing out early, but since there are many ways to unlock a phone (despite any legislation), I really doubt it is effective.

I'd like to get away from the subsidy model altogether, and replace it with something like WalMart's model: you buy the phone on credit, and $25/month is added to your bill every month. When it is paid off, your bill goes down. I believe a lot of people are continuing to pay the inflated price for monthly service after their contract is up, not realizing it was built into their fees.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: Won't unlock for international travel

said by ptb42:

I believe a lot of people are continuing to pay the inflated price for monthly service after their contract is up, not realizing it was built into their fees.

Or, like I soon will be, they continue to pay the bloated price without buying a new phone because Verizon is evil and will forcibly push you to a metered data plan with a new subsidized phone. I refuse to be the victim of a VerizoRapist.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to ptb42

Premium Member

to ptb42
Technically you could get the unlock program and wait until you are at your destination and then unlock the phone.

I state this because unlocking violates the DMCA, However if you are sitting in a hotel in London the DMCA no longer applies.
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow

Member

Re: Won't unlock for international travel

The laws of the United States apply to US Citizens abroad.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Won't unlock for international travel

said by meowmeow:

The laws of the United States apply to US Citizens abroad.

That cannot be 100% true because people under 21 can drink in countries where the age is 18.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: Won't unlock for international travel

That's because the Federal Government has no real jurisdiction over the drinking age, see the 21st Amendment. It's almost entirely in the hands of the States.

Try having sex with a child where it's legal and you'll see how quickly the Feds enforce US Law to overseas actions. Hell, on a far more mundane level, it's illegal to purchase a Cuban cigar in Canada, even if you smoke it there.
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow to Kearnstd

Member

to Kearnstd
Drinking age is a state law. The federal law doesn't apply to citizens but to the states. And it's not enforceable really, you just (as a state) don't get any federal funding for your highways if you don't make the drinking age 21. Which, of course, no state would accept.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold to ptb42

MVM

to ptb42
said by ptb42:

The one time that I tried to get AT&T to unlock my phone for this reason, they refused.

That matches my own experience. I got the run-around between customer support (who said there is no such thing as an unlock group / department) and their sim unlock group who said that they only honor unlock requests coming in through customer support (not directly from end users). Any attempts to get the two groups to communicate with each other were futile.

I could not get it resolved before departure and ended up getting my phone unlocked at the overseas destination by the news/tobacco/phone dealer who sold me the local SIM.

I have since switched to T-Mobile (not because of the unlock incident, but because att's wireless service kept getting worse) and a similar unlock request there was processed without problems.

It would not surprise if the sole purpose of those false claims by att regarding unlocking is simply to sway opinion in congress (pretending that there is no real problem).

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P

Premium Member

AT&T is full of crap

Unless you have active service with AT&T, they won't unlock your phone at all. How do I know? I've bought two devices, off-contract, directly from AT&T to use on pre-paid carriers (that use the AT&T network) but since I am not (and never have been) an AT&T subscriber, they can't help me.

This exact situation is why we need to force these jackasses to unlock devices, if they have been paid for in full. Jerks.

Anon12312312
@acs.org

Anon12312312

Anon

Re: AT&T is full of crap

that is why unlockit.co.nz exists. Use it. It works great.
clone (banned)
join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

clone (banned) to King P

Member

to King P
I haven't had AT&T service since early 2010. I did have an iPhone 3GS that I bought brand new on launch day in June of 2009, but I unlocked it (back then there was a software tool to do it) and sold it to someone being deployed overseas in December of 2009.

However, I have since purchased two secondhand iPhones (one 3GS off Craigslist and a 4 from a co-worker) that were never tied to my account. For both phones I have contacted AT&T, provided my old phone number and billing password along with the device serial numbers, and within an hour (the iPhone 4) to 4 days (the iPhone 3GS), I had a full unlock.

So, you don't have to have active AT&T service, as long as you've EVER had AT&T service they seem to be more than happy to unlock the phones.
Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL

Angrychair

Member

The problem

The issue here is that the unlock is still at the carrier's discretion.

This simply should not be the case. It should be legal, easy, and simple for any cell phone owner to unlock (or, preferably, not allow carrier locks on any phone sold in the country) their own device whenever they like at their own discretion with easy to use and readily available tools.

When someone chooses to unlock their device is their business, not the business of the corporation that sold them the device.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: The problem

said by Angrychair:

This simply should not be the case. It should be legal, easy, and simple for any cell phone owner to unlock (or, preferably, not allow carrier locks on any phone sold in the country)

There should be no reason for carrier locks. The ETF guarantees that the carrier will recoup their subsidy.

I'm all for giving people the power to hack hardware they own and weakening the DMCA, but a "cell phone unlock" exclusion just seems bizarre to me. Why not just prohibit cell phone locks in the first place?

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P to Angrychair

Premium Member

to Angrychair
Agreed. The carrier should have no say in how or when I unlock my device. I bought my Lumia 920 at full price, directly from AT&T yet, they won't unlock it unless I have active service.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

They Unlocked My Phone

I was able to unlock an iPhone 4 with a completed 2-year contract. No problems other than the procedure which was to completely reload iOS (what a PITA that is...). After which the device told me I had unlocked the phone (I forget the exact message but...)

I was able to replace the SIM card in the device with a Straight Talk kit I purchased from Wal-Mart. Other than frustration when you try to configure the APN (menu is still locked unless I use a T-Mobile SIM), it works great.

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium Member
join:2004-11-17
Murfreesboro, TN

King P

Premium Member

Re: They Unlocked My Phone

Straight Talk will work on any SIM-locked AT&T phone, so long as you get the "AT&T compatible" SIM, or the "Unlocked GSM" SIM card. I ran several AT&T SIM-locked phones on ST.

Sounds like they gave you the run-around, if you had to re-install iOS.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Re: They Unlocked My Phone

Below is the procedure they sent me. (This was all automated -- filled out a form on the web and they sent me this e-mail). I did have to do it twice but on the second time when it rebooted it said the device was unlocked. The second time all my stuff was gone and I had to resync apps, music and pictures. I have a 32GB model nearly full and that took forever.

Request number: XXXXXXX
Thank you for contacting AT&T Customer Care about unlocking your iPhone.

We have reviewed your request and confirmed that you are eligible to have the requested iPhone unlocked.

Please allow 24 hours upon receipt of this notification to complete the unlock.

To complete the unlock, simply:

1.Open iTunes on your Mac or PC and verify that you have Internet connectivity.
2.Ensure a SIM card is inserted into your iPhone.
3.Connect your iPhone using the dock connector to USB cable that came with your iPhone.
4.Backup and restore your iPhone using iTunes. For information on backup and restore, please visit »support.apple.com/kb/HT1414.
5.After restoring, your iPhone will be unlocked.

Additional information on unlocking can be found at »support.apple.com/kb/TS3198

You may also check the status of your unlock request by clicking the link for AT&T's Device Unlock Status Portal.

For questions regarding AT&T's wireless service and iPhone, please visit the Phone/Device Learning Center.

We thank you for your continued business.

Sincerely,
AT&T Customer Care Team

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE
All replies are automatically deleted.
rradina

rradina to King P

Member

to King P
duplicate post removed

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to King P

Premium Member

to King P
you cannot get AT&T sim cards for straight talk anymore

»www.talkandroid.com/1495 ··· le-sims/
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow

Member

Re: They Unlocked My Phone

True, I'll sell you one for $200 though LOL. God I wish I'd hoarded more of those... look on eBay it's INSANE.

anonphoneuse
@comcast.net

anonphoneuse

Anon

unlockers are rarely customers of original carrier

i have worked at a few different shops that unlock phones and also helped many individuals with unlocking. the reality is that people wanting to unlock phones they own are only very rarely customers of the carrier that sold the phone and able to get unlock assistance from them.

most phones people seek to unlock are purchased second hand for use on prepaid or purchased for export, the second largest group would be people who have already left their original carrier and no longer have access to there customer service but now want to use a different carrier.

at&t does not help these people, they will help the customers that want to temporarily use a local sim while traveling overseas but i would guess this is only a tiny number of people compared to those who want used phones unlocked.

at&t should at least offer a public website where anyone can input an IMEI number and if the phone is eligible(past the contract term or was purchased outright to begin with) get an unlock code. this service should be available equally to customers and non-customers alike.

MertJen
@ut.us

MertJen

Anon

Certain Conditions

"In a blog post, AT&T says they'll unlock any device provided certain conditions are met:"

I tried to unlock an old Iphone 3Gs over the weekend.... submitted the info on the website. Got a response...

"Thank you for contacting AT&T Customer Care about unlocking your iPhone. Please retain your Request Number for reference. In order to process your unlock request, we must receive a faxed copy of your original receipt"

Origianl receipt? I didn't hang on to that. I figured they would find a way to deny it.

••••
ak3883
join:2005-08-20
Marlton, NJ

ak3883

Member

Seemed easy enough

Unlocked a 3GS last fall when I upgraded to an iPhone 5. No issues since I had completed my contract, but it was a PITA to do, I had to completely restore the phone from within iTunes, something with Apple actually keeps the master list of unlocked phones and once you submit your info to AT&T and they verify that your contract is met and your account is in good standing, they send your IEMI number over to Apple and they put it on a "whitelist" and when you restore your phone, it goes to Apple's servers to 'activate' if you will, and gets a siganl to now unlock the phone. At least I think that's how it works.

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

n2jtx

Member

So What?

So AT&T doesn't mind. They were the most recalcitrant carrier about unlocking until Apple had a talk with them last year. It is the other carriers, such as Sprint that need to be worked on. Still waiting for Sprint to change its policy on full unlocking. At last check, they still refuse to fully unlock a fully paid off iPhone (not talking about the "4" as it only supports CDMA).

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

Steve B

Premium Member

My Experience

AT&T unlocked my iPhone 4S without any issues. They did ask that certain contractual obligations were met and that my account was paid and in good standing. Honestly, I don't think the contractual obligations request is out of line but, the others I feel are pushing it.
NOVA_UAV_Guy
Premium Member
join:2012-12-14
Purcellville, VA

NOVA_UAV_Guy

Premium Member

Re: My Experience

Why is the contractual obligation not out of line, when you're going to be forced to pay an ETF if you leave them early anyway? Just curious to understand your point of view. My belief is that the phone is either yours or it isn't - there's no shady gray middle ground in between.

Steve B
Premium Member
join:2004-08-02
Auburn, WA

Steve B

Premium Member

Re: My Experience

said by NOVA_UAV_Guy:

Why is the contractual obligation not out of line, when you're going to be forced to pay an ETF if you leave them early anyway? Just curious to understand your point of view. My belief is that the phone is either yours or it isn't - there's no shady gray middle ground in between.

You're right. I guess I should've added that if you pay an ETF that they should unlock it. Let's assume one hasn't or wouldn't. Then the contractual obligations aren't out of line.

Formerattguy
@charter.com

Formerattguy

Anon

AT&T unlocked my iPhone

AT&T unlocked my iPhone 4.

I fulfilled my contract, 2 years.
I had no unpaid balance. I had a zero balance.
Took a whole 5 minute conversion with AT&T
Got an email a couple days later saying to update my phone and voila.

Shorty after I cancelled AT&T and went to straight talk.

aztr0
join:2007-10-28
Brooklyn, NY

aztr0

Member

please include a post subject

I was able to unlock my Galaxy S3 within 2 days of getting my phone. Probably could've done it faster, I made a call to AT&T international customer service. Apparently they don't ask much and just gives the unlock code out. Probably be a harder process to unlock my iPhone though.

Omair
@nayatel.pk

Omair

Anon

Re: please include a post subject

I also want to Unlock my Droid 2 global cell phone which is locked by Verizon . anybody can help me it is showing network looked password type error while i am tryoing to use it. i have Verison password but its not working o it. if anyone can help me then i will be thanks full.
chuckkk
join:2001-11-10
Warner Robins, GA

chuckkk

Member

Unlocked Phones, etc.

To me, the whole digital phone business is grossly biased towards the providers, and fails to fulfill the promises made when the government allowed the conversion from analog phones to digital.

Most analog phones were allowed to "roam" on other networks (for a fee). Digital providers advertized "free roaming", then largely killed roaming on simcard phones. It's gotten so bad that the airports which had analog service, don't have digital service if your carrier doesn't have an agreement with the airport.
So much for "interoperability"!
gozer9
Premium Member
join:2010-08-09
Rochester, NY

gozer9

Premium Member

Verizon will unlock

I looked for the TOS that had the terms where Verizon stated info about rules governing the unlocking of any of their phones. I will write what I remember about it. Basicly if you have had service for 60 days and are in good standing payment wise just stop into any Verizon store and ask, I think the best way is to say you are going out of the country and will need to use it on another network. Allso it said you can have upto 3 phones unlocked per year. I read this or found the link to the TOS on a forum for international travelers. Kindof makes sence that Verizon would be willing to do this without question because they asume you want it for travel and not so you can move to another provider here.