republican-creole
site Search:


 
   
story category
AT&T Wireless: Please Don't Use Our Product
There are hints that after everything, AT&T still doesn't quite get it...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 23-Dec-2009 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth · Op/Ed
AT&T Wireless boss Ralph de la Vega is still telling the press they misinterpreted his comments about possibly pushing iPhone users toward a consumption billing model. A few weeks ago, de la Vega insisted the company needed to find "a pricing scheme that addresses the usage." Given the comment, investor pressure to ditch unlimited pricing, and AT&T's history of insisting that usage-based models are about being fair to grandmothers and preventing the end of the world, it was fairly clear to everyone where AT&T would like to go with pricing. Still though, de la Vega continues to insist he was misunderstood, telling Business Week he was simply talking about ways to get people to use less bandwidth:

De la Vega says that no such move is imminent. "There are things people say I said that I didn't say. We have not made any decision to implement tiered pricing," he says—repeating the last part for emphasis...Instead, AT&T wants to craft "incentives" that would compel iPhone owners to reduce demands on the company's overworked 3G cellular network. The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.

Actually, the most obvious solution continues to be to beef up the network so it performs like AT&T and Apple commercials promised it would. Demand is only going to grow, and if you're going to pitch yourself as the broadband company of the future, whining about people actually using your product isn't a solid foundation. Business Week again addresses the gap in AT&T network investment spending in contrast to revenues, and estimates that at this pace, AT&T's network won't be up to snuff until....2011 "at the earliest":

The company's overall capital spending is expected to drop to $17 billion this year, from $20.3 billion in 2008, although a spokesperson says the company has shifted "billions" of dollars to its wireless network. That's a good start, but it's not sufficient to serve existing customers, much less prepare for the future, say competitors. One handset executive that has worked closely with AT&T in the past suspects that the company will need to invest an additional $10 billion to get its backhaul network up to snuff—a process that won't be completed until 2011, at the earliest.

Meanwhile, good old Sanford Bernstein analyst and lazy journalist quote machine Craig Moffett makes an appearance in the Business Week article. Moffett, who traditionally argues that network upgrades are stupid (because he'd prefer that money go into his and his clients' pockets) offers up this nugget of wisdom we'll leave you with this morning: "It's reasonable to think that heavy users are worth zero." Surely Moffett and his clients won't mind then when these customers, which he admits will soon become commonplace, flee to other carriers willing to spend more money upgrading the network.

view: topics flat text 
Post a:
glinc

join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

Idea

Here's an idea. They should track iphone users usage every month and if the usage is less than 50MB then cut that month bills by half.

state
stress magnet
Premium,Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory
kudos:6

Re: Idea

But that's the opposite of what they'd like to do! Given the opportunity, I'm sure they'd like to double the bills of those who use more than (insert arbitrary number here) MB per month.

steve1515
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Peabody, MA
Right, I use almost nothing for data/voice, does that mean my bill will go down based on my usage?

Not a chance.

james

join:2001-02-26
CWCville USA

Re: Idea

said by steve1515:

Right, I use almost nothing for data/voice, does that mean my bill will go down based on my usage?

Not a chance.
Exactly, prices will go up for everyone under the guise of penalising the heavy users.
--
said by Metatron2008:

But people who download thousands of movies and games.... Yes, they are as bad as any murderer

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: Idea

said by james:

said by steve1515:

Right, I use almost nothing for data/voice, does that mean my bill will go down based on my usage?

Not a chance.
Exactly, prices will go up for everyone under the guise of penalising the heavy users.
this is at&t we are talking about. you don't have to be a heavy user to take the network down.
--
sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19
LOL i just read your sig line

Duramax08
A Challenger Appears
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Cricket Broadband
·Juno Express
·Clearwire Wireless
How much data can you really use after watching poor quality youtube videos and only download 11mb songs on itunes with AT&T "3G" network? Its stupid. You can watch a good quality clip of a movie on itunes but you cant download it lol.
--
High speed internet is on my road thanks to Clear 4G! F$*% you AT&T and TWC!
LowRider

join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
Reviews:
·Comcast
Are you joking? I use almost a gig on my phone. The streaming music and radio stations eats it up. If they didn't want to offer unlimited they shouldn't have had it as a must have tier. Now that being said I will ditch AT&T and the iPhone if they goto a per mb charge or whatever. It's a phone so the data can't be that bad. They should invest, wish this was still Cingular they were the bomb. Wouldn't even have this problem if they were still around. But anyway yes alot of peoe will leave. It's a dumb move if they go that route

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Panama City, FL
"I bought an iPhone. Too bad it was on AT&T, the great Satan. 3G and Edge was like Anne Heche, I'm in, I'm out, I'm in. Then, my powerbook broke so I built a computer. My iPod collasped two days after the warranty. I couldn't get my text messages from all my girlfriends. I bought a Droid. It worked. Now, my wife knows. I'm on the boat. I'm losing all my sponsors, wrecked my caddy, and TMZ.COM WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT ME!"

"CUT!!! Tiger, this is not a tell all. Just say Verizon is great, AT&T sucks, and the Droid is great."

gigahurtz
Premium
join:2001-10-20
Palm Coast, FL
I wish they would do this. I almost always have WiFi available to me so my usage is really low. I'd love to see a bit of a discount on my bill.
Limegrntaln

join:2002-03-25
Buckeye, AZ
I used 922MB this month without even trying. And Ive spent alot of time on WiFi.

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

1 edit

Arrogant and they will soon learn.

The 50% price hike they took on data does the job. Plus they dropped free limited texting (texting is extra on 3G plan). iPhone users pay hefty monthly fees whether they use the service or not.

They can get away with this nonsense only until the iPhone makes it to another supported carrier. The day the phone makes it to Verizon for example is the day AT&T rethinks their fleecing of subscribers.
w4ncr

join:2000-10-27

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

ARROGANT , you are so right, in the same conference call, one brand of AT&T from broadband to wireless one price in all areas that they operate on its products, not depending on where you live as it is now.
puck0114

join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
Right, because Verizon has no history of fleecing customers.

Verizon will simply implement the same pricing model AT&T has. You might get more network coverage (which is a little better), but I guarantee you won't be paying any less (possibly even more).

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

You can't guarantee anything. The fact is the only reason AT&T thinks they can get away with it is because they have an iPhone exclusive in the US market.

jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

And because they are, billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of iPhone customers at a time. So what's the problem?

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

You don't see it? Really?
Parellel

join:2009-08-06
London, ON
Not true, when Bellus got the iPhone in Canada they set the rates at an almost identical level to Rogers. I called them and asked why their prices are the same and they told me that apple sets the rates on the iPhone.

I'm not saying I believe this (it's more likely price collusion between Bellus and Rogers) but don't be suprised if the same thing happens with Verizon and AT&T, because if they see some other country doing it (and getting away with it) they will try the same thing.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

It's true, the price points are set by apple.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2
said by Z80A:

The day the phone makes it to Verizon for example is the day AT&T rethinks their fleecing of subscribers.
Keep dreaming. VZ's data plan is currently $30/mth...just like T's.

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

Re: Arrogant and they will soon learn.

So what, it means competition. Even without all the AT&T shenanigans you have people wishing for the iPhone on VZW.

Bobka

@optonline.net

approval from:
Z80A See Profile

Texting costs them almost nothing. It should be free. If everyone texted more they'd have no problem.

t3ln3t

@vericenter.com

what if?

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?

Anyone would laugh at them ... if a policy change came about, the standard package, only permits 10 hours of T.V. time per day. Anything above 10 hours, and you must pay extra.

One of the first ISPs I worked for (is gone now ... thanks Prodigy) sold "unlimited" dial-up internet access, but if you used more than 30 hours a month, would shut you off. The deal was ... it was for residential use, and anything more than 30 hours a month, wasn't occasional, residence internet use.

Can you imagine such a thing... when is "all you can eat" only two plates? If you go for a third plate ... we charge you more!

Granted, I think folks who use P2P services SHOULD be subject to something ... fees and/or penalties. It was bad enough when folks used Usenet for all that filesharing crap.
I had Usenet servers that took in 300-500GB per day, and sent over 1TB out to other servers. When I started running Usenet, a FULL feed (including alt.*) was only 2-3GB per day!

The internet is a lot like a herd of elephants with diareea. Uncontrollable and capable of producing mass amounts of excrement when you least expect it!
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: what if?

said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
That's an entirely different model and not a fair comparison.
said by t3ln3t :

Granted, I think folks who use P2P services SHOULD be subject to something ... fees and/or penalties. It was bad enough when folks used Usenet for all that filesharing crap. I had Usenet servers that took in 300-500GB per day, and sent over 1TB out to other servers. When I started running Usenet, a FULL feed (including alt.*) was only 2-3GB per day!
Why? You're painting an example of exactly why Internet services should be limited. Seems like you just ruined the point you were trying to make.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: what if?

said by openbox9:

said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
That's an entirely different model and not a fair comparison.
How so?

If you're watching digital television, the signal is just 1's and 0's, just like internet packets.
--
My Blog 2.0
yabos

join:2003-02-16
London, ON

Re: what if?

Because even most digital TV is broadcast right now. It costs the cable or satellite company nothing in terms of capacity to add new users because they're always broadcasting every single channel 24x7 to everone. When moving to switched digital video or VOD where each set top ties up a part of limited bandwidth then the comparison to TV would be valid.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: what if?

said by yabos:

Because even most digital TV is broadcast right now. It costs the cable or satellite company nothing in terms of capacity to add new users because they're always broadcasting every single channel 24x7 to everone. When moving to switched digital video or VOD where each set top ties up a part of limited bandwidth then the comparison to TV would be valid.
Well, here, it's switched digital video (Comcast or U-Verse), so it's the same to me...
--
My Blog 2.0
plat2on1

join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY
said by Gbcue:

said by openbox9:

said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
That's an entirely different model and not a fair comparison.
How so?

If you're watching digital television, the signal is just 1's and 0's, just like internet packets.
because television is a broadcast model where everyone is sent the same 1 and 0's. it doesn't matter if 1 person or 1 million people are watching.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8

Re: what if?

See my above post.
plat2on1

join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY

Re: what if?

said by Gbcue:

See my above post.
which is still wrong. SDV is still broadcasting the same 1's and 0's to everyone who wants to watch.

Gbcue
Almost P.E.
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: what if?

said by plat2on1:

said by Gbcue:

See my above post.
which is still wrong. SDV is still broadcasting the same 1's and 0's to everyone who wants to watch.
It's broadcasting the same 0's and 1's. I hope so, otherwise everybody would be watching the same channel but a different show.

SDV doesn't transmit from the cable office to your digital STB until you switch to that channel. Notice how it's called "SWITCHED digital video"?
--
My Blog 2.0
plat2on1

join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY

Re: what if?

said by Gbcue:

said by plat2on1:

said by Gbcue:

See my above post.
which is still wrong. SDV is still broadcasting the same 1's and 0's to everyone who wants to watch.
It's broadcasting the same 0's and 1's. I hope so, otherwise everybody would be watching the same channel but a different show.

SDV doesn't transmit from the cable office to your digital STB until you switch to that channel. Notice how it's called "SWITCHED digital video"?
wrong again, as long as someone is watching, the channel is still on the line.

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19
I had prodigy. i left it up 24/7 all month long. they had programs that would redial your modem for you after they d/c'd you every 8 hours. i never got cut off.
--
sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps

FBGuy
yippee ki yay
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·AT&T U-Verse
said by t3ln3t :

The internet is a lot like a herd of elephants with diareea. Uncontrollable and capable of producing mass amounts of excrement when you least expect it!
yep but in a series of tubes.
--
sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
That would only be legitimate to consider if they were talking about only SDV (Switched Digital Video) as opposed to 24/7 always available channels. SDV is a shared resource that is only in use if someone on the node is watching that channel. A Normal TV Channel is independent of if someone is actually watching it. Normal TV is broadcast while SDV is a dedicated connection (although received by more than one user) that only exists when some is tuned to it.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
Pay-Per-View or metered billing (time wise) has been the wet dream of cable companies for decades. Luckily, consumers wouldn't go for it.... then.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

JunjiHiroma
Live Free Or Die

join:2008-03-18

Re: what if?

said by KrK:

said by t3ln3t :

What if the cable companies charged you more for watching TOO MUCH T.V.?
Pay-Per-View or metered billing (time wise) has been the wet dream of cable companies for decades. Luckily, consumers wouldn't go for it.... then.
Pay per internet model,yep they definitely want that. ALL telco's in North America are just dying for that model to be used.
ualdayan

join:2004-07-17
Antioch, TN

Moffett

I suppose Craig Moffett would have told Sam Walton - "Don't open up a new store, this first one is profitable enough, just focus on it and forget about spending money on anything new."

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1

Re: Moffett

I took the liberty of posting a picture of Craig Moffett.....
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…
nevtxjustin

join:2006-04-18
Dallas, TX

Re: Moffett

said by N3OGH:

I took the liberty of posting a picture of Craig Moffett.....
Was that picture from the Spencer's Gifts adult toys section of their catalog

Danc4498

@nuvox.net

Subject

For a hint of what pricing their usage models would look like, take a glance at their text message a la cart model.
hoyleysox

join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

Marketing cringes

VZ and Sprint are going to make fun of AT&T like Southwest makes fun of the other airlines bags.

AT&T's marketing niche: people who do not use the internet very much.
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25

Re: Marketing cringes

said by hoyleysox:

VZ and Sprint are going to make fun of AT&T like Southwest makes fun of the other airlines bags.

AT&T's marketing niche: people who do not use the internet very much.
Already happening. My favorite is the iphone on the isle of misfit toys!

wdoa

join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

they are all reading from the same playbook

They may run ads attacking each other but all the wireless carriers are always looking for ways to increase revenue while minimizing expenses (i.e. actually spending money on providing and expanding service). As long as there are only a few major wireless providers it's just going to get more and more expensive and the service worse and worse. That's the way modern capitalism works.

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA

And when it does get implemented in 2011, will

that implementation be prepared for what is actually happening in 2011? Or will we be needing ANOTHER upgrade that won't be ready until 2015 to deal with what is happening in 2011?

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

1 edit

Other Idea's

quote:
Still though, de la Vega continues to insist he was misunderstood, telling Business Week he was simply talking about ways to get people to use less bandwidth
Another idea would be to allow people to own and use iPhones without forcing a data plan down their throat. They could use WiFi exclusively. That would be a model I would be interested in myself if I were with AT&T. This idea that you have to have a data plan but we really want to force you onto WiFi is not going to cut it.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
duranr

join:2006-10-14
Leonia, NJ

Re: Other Idea's

You do realize that the iPhone is primarily a data device that can also make phone calls. Not the other way around like most other devices.

The iphone is not the kind of device you want w/o a data plan without which, it would be severely crippled. No visual VM, no push updates, etc.

What you're looking for is exists in the form of an ipod Touch w/ Skype.

amarryat
Verizon FiOS

join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by n2jtx:

quote:
Still though, de la Vega continues to insist he was misunderstood, telling Business Week he was simply talking about ways to get people to use less bandwidth
Another idea would be to allow people to own and use iPhones without forcing a data plan down their throat. They could use WiFi exclusively. That would be a model I would be interested in myself if I were with AT&T. This idea that you have to have a data plan but we really want to force you onto WiFi is not going to cut it.
That is exactly what I think. I bet a ton of customers just want the iPhone and could get by with wifi only instead of a data plan. That would be a win-win since their network would be less congested resulting in happier data customers, and non-data customers would save $30/mo. They could even decrease the subsidy for non data customers to mitigate some of the lost revenue and still have happy customers.
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

It's reasonable to think that heavy users are worth zero.

Wow, now I know who the genius was who cooked up that ridiculous LTV1 idea a few years ago whereby users were denied upgrades based on their perceived value to the company.

Duramax08
A Challenger Appears
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

so

should we still wait for tethering?

state
stress magnet
Premium,Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory
kudos:6

Re: so

Remember that when it does come out, AT&T would prefer that you only tether when the iPhone is connected via wifi...

toddbs98

join:2000-07-08
North Little Rock, AR

AT&T has no worries.

They don't have to worry about losing customers because I-Phone users will pay any price for a second rate service and convince them self that they are cool and elite in doing so, just like I-Pod and Mac users have been doing for years.
--
Patriots always speak of dying for their country never killing for it. Bertrand Russell
Kdee

join:2005-08-26
Etobicoke, ON

If he doesn't want us to use his network....

... then perhaps we should skip the iPhone on AT&T’s network altogether and just get an iPod touch and a copy of Skype. I bet that would make Mr. de la Vega really happy.

RolteC
0h

join:2001-05-20
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1

Re: If he doesn't want us to use his network....

Maybe they should remove the iPhone all together, and never get another good/fast/GUI type phone every again?

Then they can never have to update the network again and stop bitching.

Then give it a year or so, and they will crumble because everyone will leave them for a company that knows the future it about faster and better, Verizon, ect.

Im starting to hate AT&T and people like that Craig fool/tool.
FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

Unbelieveable

The most obvious solution is to get them to switch to wireless Wi-Fi networks whenever possible.

Oh yeah because Cable internet companies havent been crying either.
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1

!

Lol, this came to mind again.. "AT&T, WHATS IN YOUR WALLET??"

addertooth

@cox.net

high end phones attract high network users

When you market premier network phones which only really shine when you use bandwidth, you must expect high bandwidth users will be attracted to them. The high end windows mobile, Apples, (and for other companies, the droid) attract potential customers who are drawn by the internet features these phones offer. If is really serious about limiting bandwidth, they need to follow other companies lead, and offer phones which don't utilize the internet well. ATT has created their network crunch by offering the exact kinds of phones which by nature are bandwidth hogs. Don't get me wrong, I own a high bandwidth ATT phone. The unlimited plan stopped being unlimited when you hit 4 gigs a month. If you watched much UTube you could easilly exceed this amount and be hit with staggering over-limit fees.
visuelz

join:2003-05-01
Brooklyn, NY

Funny

Companies want to charge more for people who use a lot of bandwidth, which is a few people. Now ATT is saying that they want to give incentive to people that use less bandwidth. Are they saying that we're all bandwidth hogs?

perk

@sprint.com

att data

stop all the complaining about att's network and the high prices of service of att and verizon. give them a message by switching to Sprint. Great network, great pricing and great phones: Pre, Hero, Moment, Pixi and coming soon a 4G phone.

sdialect

join:2000-10-02
Jacksonville, FL

Re: att data

right on and with "simply everything" no more calling circles just calls. Use all the stuff on your phone and not for 30 bucks extra, it may have taken Sprint some time but, the plan is finally working
--
Life goes on...

Zerorules

@cox.net

Re: att data

4g does not exist. The technology as a whole as not bee approved yet. the "4g" network they are pushing is just a clever word gimic. Why switch to Sprint? In this years satisfaction survays At&t was the worst and Sprint was the second worst. Verizon and Tmobile were at the top in customer satisfaction...Tmo with the introduction of the 9700 is by far the best service for the least amount of money. My tmo 9700 on 3g can download faster than my brothers iphone. Also my bill is a FRACTION of the cost....

Monday, 04-Jun 21:31:37 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 12.5 years online © 1999-2012 dslreports.com.