  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | interesting times
if AT&T workers are smart, they will just go for a 1 year agreement. any agreement that limits pay increases to 2% per year over the next 4 years will be horrible for workers as inflation should be kicking into gear in a year or so and reach levels similar to the 70s and early 80s: double digits. | |
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join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: interesting times said by WeSRT4:Actually the opposite is true. Deflation is the real risk in the near term. ... It's already happening. yes, deflation is happening right now. it will be followed by significant inflation. wait about 12 months. | |
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| | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: interesting times I tend to agree.
We're seeing deflation in the cost of everything (in general) right now to attempt to kickstart the economy.
Inflation will come about soon - it'll be the early 80's again with cheaper home prices (they were market driven only), but skyrocket interest rates. As the government is printing money, the value of the dollar will be worthless, forcing inflation. | |
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1 edit | said by morbo:if AT&T workers are smart, they will just go for a 1 year agreement. any agreement that limits pay increases to 2% per year over the next 4 years will be horrible for workers as inflation should be kicking into gear in a year or so and reach levels similar to the 70s and early 80s: double digits. 2% a year is that all company is offering, geeze the CWA will laugh in their face & tell them what they can do with their 2%,I can tekk tiy this pple mif CWA decides to wakjm its (AT&T service)is going to get ugly/bad
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What we know is not much.What we don't know is enormous.but NOT EVERYONE wants to admit "they don't know"
SOME PEOPLE think THEY ARE NEVER WRONG about anything | |
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| | Speaking of AT&T I'm glad I'm no longer with them as my wireless provider. One thing I noticed when I was with them is even though my coverage showed I was right in the middle of 3G I rarely got a 3G signal. With AT&T I tried both the iPhone and a Blackberry Bold and I never got a 3G signal at my job, at home, or at school. You practically had to be outside to not be delegated to slow EDGE speeds. I'm not sure if it's GSM technology or poor coverage by AT&T that causes that. Also if I had a weak signal with AT&T the EDGE service crapped out and I was left with no data.
With Sprint and Verizon, EVDO coverage goes perfectly with 1X coverage. I'm a Sprint user and I never lose my EVDO signal like I lost my 3G signal. I don't think this is limited to my area, either. I noticed Verizon doing "3G deadspot" commercials now making fun of some other carriers and the fact they lose 3G coverage.
I'm glad I'm no longer with AT&T, their data coverage was a joke.
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We have two political parties in America. One is evil, and the other is stupid. Sometimes, they get together and do something both evil and stupid. That's called bipartisanship. | |
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| | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Speaking of AT&T Yeah - it was so poor on 3G (not enough capacity... and all of it was on 1900MHz in an 850/1900MHz market) ending up with dropped calls R us.
They 'fixed' it in the nick of time, as my contract had expired around the time of 3G 850/second carrier deployment here. I've had little issue since, and even had a 3 1/2 hour conference call on my HTC Tilt. | |
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| | So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? The union is going to strike and walk away from the table while workers are being let go by the thousands weekly?
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Satan is always busy. He makes bad things look good and good things look bad! Watch that Devil. | |
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|  Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by fatmanskinny:The union is going to strike and walk away from the table while workers are being let go by the thousands weekly? That's exactly what I thought too. Real smart. Unions need to go the way of the Dodo. | |
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| |  HarleyYacYacoPremium
join:2001-10-13
Allendale, NJ
kudos:2 | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? Yes.. And 9% reductions in Management salary will follow suit.
Are you kidding me? 
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1-20-09-- The Fascist has left the building!!
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| cwire
join:2007-06-07
Bedford, KY | yeah, they only turned a couple billion profit last quarter, i don't think they have the resources for competivie wage increases, job security, etc....poor poor at&t. | |
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| |  DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? Workers are worth only what it costs to replace them...not a penny more. I know it sucks for many to hear this simple reality, but that is how it is. | |
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| | | | | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? So what's the cost of service quality going down the toilet? | |
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| | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
2 edits | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? You're assuming that AT&T Mobility customers are currently getting "quality service" and if they were it would change if they used non-CWA workers. Some would argue that service could improve if they used non-CWA workers. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? It's not a matter of CWA or not. It's a matter of training. I'm not sure the level of technical expertise needed for their jobs but technical jobs aren't easily swapped without major problems coming down the pipe. | |
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| | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? They could have the same employment experience requirement but my understanding is that the CWA contract placed limits on scheduling and who can do what which can lead to a decreased level of service. | |
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| | | | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? I would tend to agree with Dogfather.
Companies in general only value performance... and even then, they prefer to have performance at the lowest cost - union or not.
As an individual - you can work hard and move up the ranks, and on to a possible better career. The limit is 'you'.
As a union member, you're tied in by seniority as a general rule of thumb. The limit is 'the union'. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by en102:I would tend to agree with Dogfather. Companies in general only value performance... and even then, they prefer to have performance at the lowest cost - union or not. As an individual - you can work hard and move up the ranks, and on to a possible better career. The limit is 'you'. As a union member, you're tied in by seniority as a general rule of thumb. The limit is 'the union'. Unions in ATT only extend, at least in the Mobility side, to the RSC's once you hit management they disappear and then ATT really sticks it to you. The culture between the two is not friendly and rarely smooth. Not to mention your ability to move up inside of that massive company is extremely rare within the first 5-7 years and many times never happens as the good old boy system plays it self out due to the older managers who have sat at their job for the last 10+ years. | |
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| | | | | said by Dogfather:Workers are worth only what it costs to replace them...not a penny more. I know it sucks for many to hear this simple reality, but that is how it is. I agree but you would think ATT would get smart and look at their turn over rates in certain areas, like call centers and sales positions and see that paying a few more bucks on the top will save them MILLIONS in training costs. They have failed to realize this and continue to hit the bottom of all performance reviews when it comes to customer service.
If they took more of Tmobile approach to work environments and pay they might actually have a service that is worth anything.
I think what is really getting people mad is that ATT just put the new commission structure in place and people are seeing 50-60 % cut in their take. So ATT is making more and more off sales yet never returning that back to the people who made it. The union caved when those commission structure rules were to be ratified and let ATT dictate the rules. I think the CWA just wants to get a return on what they did for ATT. Basically they let ATT take a massive chunk out of sales staff pay, many of my past co workers are now extremely mad at the idea that ATT mobility side made record profits yet continue to cut their wages, hoping that they could at least get ATT to play nice and give them the same contract now. Looks like it didn't work and now people are getting screwed and ATT is laughing all the way to the bank.
I continue to laugh at people who say, "why are you striking now are you an idiot don't you know the economy is in the crapper aren't you glad just to have a job?" To that I laugh and it shows me the real character of people and the real reason why we haven't had any revolutions in 200+ years. People think just because times are tough you should back down and bend over and do everything they want. No one values their respect or dignity anymore they can be bought off in a heart beat. Yes I understand we should appreciate our jobs but we should also fight for a piece of the pie we helped a corporation earn. With out the people on the front lines the CEO's and hire ups couldn't line their pockets.
As Tyler Durden in Fight club said quote:
Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.
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| | | | | |  Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package?
so yes, ATT workers are grateful to have a job, yet ATT is not grateful to have us and there is never a guarantee that we will have our jobs in the next 4 years so I say-pay me what I deserve since they haven't cut a penny off the ceo's ridiculous salary, then they can share that with those of us that actually make sh*t happen there and do it right. over 120 billion in profits? yea, they can share some of that with the rest of us.
And there will never be any revolution as people nowadays are so easily scared and obedient. I like to call them "The American Sheeple"
George Washington and the rest of our forefathers are definitely turning in their graves-seeing Americans obey like good little doggies.... | |
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|  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by fatmanskinny:The union is going to strike and walk away from the table while workers are being let go by the thousands weekly? No one will actually strike. Their bargaining position stinks. AT&T will ultimately win this one. Especially since their "final offer" isn't that bad.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| |  richdelbGo Hawks GoPremium
join:2003-01-22
Algonquin, IL | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by Linklist:said by fatmanskinny:The union is going to strike and walk away from the table while workers are being let go by the thousands weekly? No one will actually strike. Their bargaining position stinks. AT&T will ultimately win this one. Especially since their "final offer" isn't that bad. I suspect that you have it correct on this one. | |
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| |  JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
 ·Optimum Online
| said by Linklist:Especially since their "final offer" isn't that bad. In what world??
Inflation is on the horizon and anyone who locks themselves into a 2% increase is a fool.
Plus I love the veiled threats in the letter sent out by AT&T...
Regardless, this is just normal back and forth in a contract negotiation...
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
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| | |  MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by JRW2:In what world?? Inflation is on the horizon and anyone who locks themselves into a 2% increase is a fool. Considering many non-union workers these days are either a) not getting raises (or actually getting pay cuts) or b) losing their jobs, 2% is a pretty good offer. | |
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| | | | | | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by Morac:said by JRW2:In what world?? Inflation is on the horizon and anyone who locks themselves into a 2% increase is a fool. Considering many non-union workers these days are either a) not getting raises (or actually getting pay cuts) or b) losing their jobs, 2% is a pretty good offer. then maybe the non-union employees should consider being protected under a collective bargaining agreement | |
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| | | | | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by S_engineer:then maybe the non-union employees should consider being protected under a collective bargaining agreement Why should someone who works hard and someone who barely works at all be paid the same and get the same raises, just because they both happen to be in the same union?
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: So what's on CNN and Fox today about the stimulus package? said by Morac:said by S_engineer:then maybe the non-union employees should consider being protected under a collective bargaining agreement Why should someone who works hard and someone who barely works at all be paid the same and get the same raises, just because they both happen to be in the same union? you assume that union workers can't get fired. This is NOT the case. There is a process in place to get rid of any employee that doesn't adhere to company policy. In the building trades, workers can be let go on the spot.
Do yourself a favor by letting go of the talk show circuit, they're just leading us further down the path of outsourcing all of our manufacturing base under the guise of "competition" | |
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| | | | |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by S_engineer:then maybe the non-union employees should consider being protected under a collective bargaining agreement And be fired all at once.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | | People gripe when CEO's are making millions in bonuses while their company is tanking.
People gripe when mothers are not working and are on welfare.
People gripe when workers are trying to hold down a 40 hour/week job for decent pay.
What do the gripers want? Everyone to make the same? I guess Obama for president is starting to make sense. | |
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| | | Jobs are being lost by the millions and these mental giants decide going on strike is a great idea. | |
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| | great time to hire It will be very easy to hire.
I would be mad if I was in a union that went on strike right now. Would not want to burn through savings before a layoff. | |
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See 16 replies to this post |
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1 edit | Well waive bye to those jobs. Half the union will probably not be returning to work if they strike. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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 SrsBsns
join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK
1 edit | ... That raise is pretty small but they have a higher pay cap than my district. The sad part about this is it will probably get voted in because most of the workforce is new and will see the 850 payout without thinking about the long term. I would have expected more from at&t since they are no longer providing free cell service to it employees and have nuked the 401k(replaced with a stock match program). What a bunch of cheapskates. The CWA needs to unite on this one but once employees hear it will be 2 weeks off work before the get strike pay they will fold and take whatever they get. Again not thinking about the long term or overall big picture. They only see that 2 weeks no pay. I'm sure at&t is betting on this. This is what happened to my district. | |
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1 edit | Re: ... Who thinks about long term anymore. Employees are essentials to a company's success.
Circuit City tried to be cheap and fired all their top earners years ago and got new staffing for every store. Look at where they are now. All the signs will be taken down in a matter of weeks.
Sprint tried to be cheap and off shored most of their call center calls. Look at who is trying to stay afloat.
Comcast doesnt pay benefits and uses contractors for installs. Everyone here knows about their terrible customer service. Their installers have killed people, raped, kidnapped, blown up houses, etc. The kidnapping story was never posted here but this happened in Tracy, CA 2 months ago. »www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11124852
When I go do my grocery shopping, the checkers are always busting their buts. The ones on the floor are always busy. They're a union shop and workers get fair pay. Go to Walmart and you can see a different level of service. They barely speak English. They will check your items at the pace they see fit. Most of the time its slow as molasses. They don't care if the line is 10 people deep. They are paid near minimum wage and all look as if they just got kicked off welfare. | |
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| | | | Re: ... said by ninjatutle: Go to Walmart and you can see a different level of service. They barely speak English. They will check your items at the pace they see fit. Most of the time its slow as molasses. They don't care if the line is 10 people deep. They are paid near minimum wage and all look as if they just got kicked off welfare. But the good news for these Walmart employees is they still get to milk Uncle Sam via medicare.
All of these anti union rants amuse me because it was the threat of collective bargaining that gave employers the incentive to pay decent wages and to give benefits. Along comes Walmart and the "competitive" argument ensues into other sectors such as telecoms. This is great....the competitive argument now means that we're all in competition for immigrant wages! | |
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1 edit | I have decided not to post
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| | ?? You guys get cost of living increase's? State of TN employees didn't get one for two years in a row so far! And we are paid crap at lower levels.... | |
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1 edit | Re: ?? kook at the website on the orignal page at what is being offered,to CWA,if i agreed to something like that I'd make it a 1 yr contract only,no do not work for or any assocyation with at&t or cwa but you can believe if CWA walks the "AT&T,uverse,DSL customers are gonna suffer,
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What we know is not much.What we don't know is enormous.but NOT EVERYONE wants to admit "they don't know"
SOME PEOPLE think THEY ARE NEVER WRONG about anything | |
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 heat84Bit Torrent Apologist
join:2004-03-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL | ---- It there anyway the workers can add making U-Verse FTTH to their list of demands?  | |
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| El GaupoPremium
join:2006-07-15
Buckhorn, NM | Re: ---- Can you say $12.9 billion profit for att last year | |
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| | aximrPremium
join:2001-09-28
Wood Ridge, NJ Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: ---- And the shareholders don't deserve any of that?
Not to say the employees are not important, but the shareholders are important as well. A public company can't exist without either.
FYI, there are 5.89 billion shareholders.
.41 cent dividend a qtr. Shareholders have taken a 20.00 loss already in the past 52 weeks.
Another ironic twist is that while the media portrays the shareholders as rich elite people, a good potion of the shareholders are regular working people who have AT&T stock wrapped up in retirement accounts, 401K accounts and mutual funds etc....
I would be willing to bet a good number of the autoworkers too are AT&T shareholders. | |
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Reviews:
·Insight Communic..
·WOW Internet and..
| See this page. »www.cwa-attmobility.com for more info, CWA did not walk away from the table, AT&T did, according to this. This site is made for the AT&T Mobility Employees, so when you see "YOU" it means the people who work there and are in the CWA union. | |
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| aximrPremium
join:2001-09-28
Wood Ridge, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Bad Timing Maybe the union should rethink the striking option right now or take a look at what is going on in the world or more specific the auto industry.
The Auto Workers are giving back years of increases so that they have jobs.
For those of you that say AT&T made billions and should share it with the workers please remember there are shareholders too. The shareholders have invested in AT&T and well if AT&T starts to make less money or lose money, bye bye shareholders.
Then, Bye bye stock price, then bye bye AT&T's ability to borrow money and do business, then bye bye AT&T which leads to Bye Bye job.
A vicious cycle, but the truth.
It a hard balancing act to keep employees, shareholders and creditors happy.
The shareholders have taken a hit on their investment over the past 12 months. Maybe the Union should think long term.
Look at what is going on all over the world?
Manufactures are shutting down production lines and asking workers to work 3 or 4 day weeks to save money, even California has gone to court to fight the union to enforce that employees take 2 days off a month without pay to save money.
Go ahead and strike, when they replace you or the company goes belly up, you will have yourself to blame.
I highly doubt that the public is going to be behind you on this one. Depending on what you read anywhere from 2 to 3 million jobs were lost in 2008. Not counting the reduction some workers have taken to keep their jobs. And you are asking for more. Should play out nicely. I'm betting AT&T is going to take a very hard stance here.
There is a time and place to ask for more, this isn't the time. | |
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| | | | Re: Bad Timing I like how everyone keeps going back and say the shareholders are hurting and that many regular joes have stock in att, why dont you google the profit and loss statement as well as do a search on the breakdown of who owns most of the stock. i.e executives on the board of att, investment companies, regular people only take into account a small fraction! always att just bumped up their dividend another 2.5 % but they cant afford to give alittle more???? give me a break these people on the board get free health care for life huge bonuses stock options worth millions!!!! its not the union that is the downfall of these companies its the executives that take and take and take. people talk about the automakers and having to give back, those employees have worked their whole lives for these companies and it is not the little man that has ran the company into the ground!!! | |
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| | | aximrPremium
join:2001-09-28
Wood Ridge, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Well as usual another uninformed opinion, Now I think you have the right to an opinion. But educate yourself and I think you would probably change your stance. The dividend went from .40 cents to .41 cents last qtr. Now the 2.5% sounds so much more greedy doesn't it, so play that end up.
It's so easy to play the corporate greedy board vs. the poor small guy. Regular people? What is your definition of regular people? AT&T is current 58% owned by institutions, included in the institutions would be the "regular guys" mutual fund, 401K managed by a Vanguard or T Rowe or Fidelity etc..state pension funds so on and so forth. 42% of AT&T is owned by indivuals, do you count them as "regular Guys".
I'm not going to try and defend a CEO taking 50 million is salary and bonus, but in reality that has less impact on a company then 40,000 workers asking for an 8% raise. I personally don't think either is right.
But then again, i don't think a baseball player should make millions and actors and actress should make 25 million for 3 months work making a movie.
But some how people don't seem to be as outraged by that. Or how about the fact that Oprah make 500 million a year. I mean America love Oprah, why isn't that greed? | |
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| | | |  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:78
 ·DIRECTV
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·magicjack.com
·Google Voice
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Bad Timing said by aximr:.... But then again, i don't think a baseball player should make millions and actors and actress should make 25 million for 3 months work making a movie. But some how people don't seem to be as outraged by that. Or how about the fact that Oprah make 500 million a year. I mean America love Oprah, why isn't that greed? Actually they might be outraged.... they would be called "Pirates" those pesky people the RIAA/MPAA are consistently after.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
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jandar1
join:2006-01-16
Middleburg, FL | Offers for Scabbing coming in My Mailbox is flooded with job offers to cover the strike.
They are wasting no time to grab workers.
ATT is playing hardball, and the CWA might need to back down to even keep half the jobs. | |
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| | | Re: Offers for Scabbing coming in the unions need to stand their ground and get an equal share of the money att is making! they are having record profits every quarter!!! People always union bash, but if they could have a job with these companies are union making decent pay for work then they would no longer be complaining!!! | |
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| |  ScottMoOnce in a LifetimePremium,MVM
join:2000-12-15
Stony Brook, NY | Re: Offers for Scabbing coming in "equal"? Equal to what? | |
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