AT&T Workers Walk out in California, Nevada Thousands of Employees at 100 Locations Protest Memo Tipped by unoriginal 
Relations between unions and telecom giants AT&T and Verizon have always been heated, but they've been increasingly so lately as the companies turn their backs on aging landline infrastructure -- while at the same time engaging in contract renewal negotiations. For AT&T those relations grew a little heated this week as thousands of AT&T landline workers in Nevada and California walked off the job for a day. The workers were protesting AT&T's tough negotiation positions on healthcare and benefits, but the union also appeared annoyed at a memo sent by an AT&T executive saying the company doesn't care about walk offs because it saves them money: In the memo, which was obtained by this paper, AT&T Vice President Betsy Farrell complained that recent "union activity has caused some of you to make a choice not to serve our customers. Given comments I have heard from many of you regarding the importance of providing good customer service, I'm a bit puzzled about why you would leave customers without service we committed we would provide them. "The company doesn't suffer. In fact, these actions help us financially when we don't pay you." Granted this is the same CWA that breathlessly supported AT&T's acquisition of T-Mobile using bogus science, while ignoring the tens of thousands of potential lost jobs that would have resulted.
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 Reviews:
·Charter
| im just waiting... for AT&T to fire all the union employees and hire out. Legally, they can because those employees walked off the job, they have a reason to fire them. I am all for the support of unions, and what they represent, but sometimes, they get too damn headstrong and feel they can do whatever they want. In this economy, I would gladly go and work for AT&T as a non-union employee, because it would mean a job. | |
|  |  bigunkGort, Klattu Birada Nikto join:2001-02-10 USA | Re: im just waiting... AT$T and the unions are both evil. They must both be abolished. | |
|  |  quetwoThat VoIP GuyPremium join:2004-09-04 East Lansing, MI | The issue is that AT&T posted record profits, and over the last (6?) quarters, has accumulated more wealth than any other time in history.
Yet, they feel that their workers need to take additional cuts. Besides laying off (not re-assigning, but actually laying off) hundreds / thousands of employees in the last year, they are demanding to slash the health-care provided to the workers, freeze salaries and drop all the education assistance. The Union's stance is that if the company is doing well, they should share a bit with the workers. Rather, AT&T is hording the money for their next acquisition. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: im just waiting... said by quetwo:The issue is that AT&T posted record profits, and over the last (6?) quarters, has accumulated more wealth than any other time in history.
...The Union's stance is that if the company is doing well, they should share a bit with the workers. Rather, AT&T is hording the money for their next acquisition. This
I think any company should give a little kick-back to their workers if they are doing well. They wouldn't be reaping all of those profits without the people that run the day to day business for the company. But 99% of time this isn't the case. The fat cats in the company get the huge bonuses, stock options, and monstrous salaries. | |
|  |  |  | | It's a corporatation, AT&T isn't obligated to give any money back to their employees. They are solely in business to make as much money as possible AND to spend as little as possible. The union shouldn't get a "stance". They sould STFU and be glad there are any employees paying their dues at all! Althought there wont' be for along. Union memberships are at an all time low... | |
|  |  |  |  DolganPremium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: im just waiting... quote: It's a corporatation, AT&T isn't obligated to give any money back to their employees. They are solely in business to make as much money as possible AND to spend as little as possible.
By your statement, Executive Compensation should be declining at the same rate as their employees instead of increasing at an exponential basis. Any trained monkey could their jobs just as well. | |
|  |  |  |  | | So if a company is making record profits, you think its OK for the company to demand outrageous give-backs and no pay raises. So you are the CEO of which company? | |
|  |  |  |  |  DolganPremium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: im just waiting... quote: So if a company is making record profits, you think its OK for the company to demand outrageous give-backs and no pay raises
When they are doing it to their employees they should do it to the Executives as well. The Executives are employees of the Shareholders and by excusing themselves from the same cuts they apply to the workers they are not maximizing shareholder value. | |
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·Comcast
| said by ITALIAN926:So if a company is making record profits, you think its OK for the company to demand outrageous give-backs and no pay raises. So you are the CEO of which company? So if a company is losing money that means the company should demand the workers take a pay cut? If you want more money when things are going well it only makes sense you'll lose pay when things aren't going well. | |
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·Verizon FiOS
| Re: im just waiting... Umm yea, when companies/cities, face financial troubles, unions usually back concessions.
AT&T, Verizon, are hardly in any trouble. Its disgusting that if these companies managed to save a billion dollars in wages and benefits, their CEO's would get millions in bonuses for a job-well-done. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  DolganPremium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI Reviews:
·Charter
| quote: So if a company is losing money that means the company should demand the workers take a pay cut?
I have no problem with this as long as the cuts are spread throughout the entire organization... which means from the CEO down to the lowest paid part timer. Unfortunately, it seems Executive compensation goes up no matter how well/poorly the business is doing while worker compensation gets cut in either scenario. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium join:2004-12-20 La La Land kudos:5 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| said by NOCTech75:said by ITALIAN926:So if a company is making record profits, you think its OK for the company to demand outrageous give-backs and no pay raises. So you are the CEO of which company? So if a company is losing money that means the company should demand the workers take a pay cut? If you want more money when things are going well it only makes sense you'll lose pay when things aren't going well. They do demand the pay cuts, among other things, and if they are truly losing money, they get them. Problem is, EVERY contract, they cry poverty, until you ask to see their books, then they aren't losing money.. Amazing how that happens.  -- Politics is a disease, we need a cure! In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  kmidPremium join:2012-04-10 | Re: im just waiting... You'll be searching a long time for intelligent life. | |
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 |  |  |  |  slckusrPremium join:2003-03-17 Maumee, OH kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by ITALIAN926:So if a company is making record profits, you think its OK for the company to demand outrageous give-backs and no pay raises. So you are the CEO of which company? Youll notice the auto unions did this when the car makers were hurting pretty bad. Corporations are in the business to make money, but how much is too much?, and what should they provide their workers? | |
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 |  |  |  2 edits | If you were the CEO and said something like this during a time when the company is doing better than ever before I would honestly vote to have you removed. Yes, the shareholders invest money in the company and want a return on their investment. No, that does not mean the company can make it without their union or non-union employees. A^^&)%#@ like you are the cause and motivation for unions to begin with. I hope you aren't an executive. If you are you have no business running a large corporation. Although, if you are I imagine you negotiated a multi million dollar bonus for when you run the company into the ground face first. I assume also that you'd not invest in new technology and let the company fester on ancient and rickety equipment to squeeze the last penny for yourself or an investor. | |
|  |  |  |  | | said by jeff17:It's a corporatation, AT&T isn't obligated to give any money back to their employees. They are solely in business to make as much money as possible AND to spend as little as possible. The union shouldn't get a "stance". They sould STFU and be glad there are any employees paying their dues at all! Althought there wont' be for along. Union memberships are at an all time low... I disagree 100%.
Unions have a place in society and serve as a very good counter balance to large corporations. | |
|  |  |  |  | | "Union memberships are at an all time low..." Yep, and that's the way big business likes it. Folks, let's not forget why unions came into being in the first place. It's for the exact same reasons we're seeing now, corporations making record profits at a time when many workers are feeling the pinch, or lost a home, or lost their savings. Unions exist to speak for the average Joe who isn't getting a fair shake from the fat cats. But big business has done everything they can to intimidate unions, while their friends in the GOP try to cut the union workers out of public sector jobs.
Bottom line is, the workers are getting the shaft and instead of realizing that "what goes around comes around," meaning if it's union workers today, it'll be non-union workers tomorrow, the non-union folks are handing the union workers anvils and hoping they sink.
What's happened to this country? | |
|  |  |  |  jst3751Premium join:2004-07-08 Rowland Heights, CA | said by jeff17:It's a corporatation, AT&T isn't obligated to give any money back to their employees. They are solely in business to make as much money as possible AND to spend as little as possible. The union shouldn't get a "stance". They sould STFU and be glad there are any employees paying their dues at all! Althought there wont' be for along. Union memberships are at an all time low... What are you talking about? No one here is asking the companay to give back to the employees. Rather, the company is demanding the employees receive less than they do now.
Please get your facts straight. | |
|  |  |  |  | | What do u understand about unions other than u dont like them. Your r correct about Copr's makg $ while spending little as possible. This is exactly why unions r so important. Why wld any corp pay any employee more that they half and and what current market wld support for wages /benifits? Correct agian, they wld not! That wld not b "smart business". What can help working foke from being taking advantage of and help earn somewhat of a respectable wage and have somewhat of a so called "gud life"? | |
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·Comcast
| Re: im just waiting... said by Foke :What do u understand about unions other than u dont like them. Your r correct about Copr's makg $ while spending little as possible. This is exactly why unions r so important. Why wld any corp pay any employee more that they half and and what current market wld support for wages /benifits? Correct agian, they wld not! That wld not b "smart business". What can help working foke from being taking advantage of and help earn somewhat of a respectable wage and have somewhat of a so called "gud life"? No wonder you need a union to make sure you keep a job. | |
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 |  |  | | ATT is NOT obligated to pay for the heathcare for those employees. They should be glad that T pays anything. Many providers DO NOT. | |
|  |  |  | | And were those record profits in wireline or wireless? They have every reason to slash the wireline payouts if it isn't carrying its weight, albeit through no fault of the wireline workers. If they're unneeded, they're unneeded. It's not any company's duty to give anyone a job. -- Ali Check Point Certified Security Expert | |
|  |  |  |  quetwoThat VoIP GuyPremium join:2004-09-04 East Lansing, MI | Re: im just waiting... Why should it matter what division an employee is in? If the company is doing good, reward all employees. If the company is doing bad, force concessions from all employees.
If a certain division did stellar, than allow for merit raises -- but don't cut basic health-care for other divisions just because. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: im just waiting... Better to cut benefits than slash workforce. Or would they be better served by being unemployed? They're in a dying division, one that is no longer a cash cow for the company. They are becoming extraneous, and as such are being phased out.
Why should the company keep them around if they don't need them? I wouldn't expect my company to keep me around if they suddenly didn't need firewall engineers anymore. -- Ali Check Point Certified Security Expert | |
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 |  |  |  spgGrrrr join:2001-10-31 NOT Texas! | Wireless can't exist without wireline. Who exactly do you think connected those cell sites into the network?
Wireline IS changing, but it's not going away and will remain the backbone of the network. Much of the network is glass, but copper is NOT going away. (Even then it's wireline that maintains fiber.) They've sounded the death knell for copper for decades and yet, it's still there. The applications change, but the use grows.
EMBEDDED BASE. Learn the concept. People seem to assume that when a new technology comes along, the old magically disappears. Not so. It usually changes and improves, but rarely goes away. -- Do not trifle with dragons; for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! | |
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 |  | | Please fire every stinking union member, there is plenty of replacements. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: im just waiting... Why dont YOU take a long walk off a short pier. | |
|  |  |  JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium join:2004-12-20 La La Land kudos:5 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| said by dr3yec1 :Please fire every stinking union member, there is plenty of replacements. Really?? Exactly how many qualified workers are there to replace all the workers you want fired?? -- Politics is a disease, we need a cure! In constant search for intelligent life on Earth! | |
|  |  |  |  RokHed join:2000-09-09 Pennsville, NJ | Re: im just waiting... Ask the Air traffic controllers that Regan fired. Since they have layed off 10's of thousands I bet they could replace them quite easily with people that will actually be happy to have a job. I hope they do. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: im just waiting... Siding for a monster company that does not give a crap about YOU; the customer?. Hate to tell ya there BUB, but the workers that care the most are the ones on the front line, not their CEO or board of Directors. Pity you. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  RokHed join:2000-09-09 Pennsville, NJ | Re: im just waiting... Pity who? Im comfortably retired from a NON union job. I dont use ATT or Verizon. Unions are leaches and the sooner they are broken the better as far as im concerned BUB | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  See 7 replies to this post |
 |  |  |  |  spgGrrrr join:2001-10-31 NOT Texas! | And one of the first things those "replacements" did was to form a union. Go figure... -- Do not trifle with dragons; for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! | |
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 |  |  |  openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | How do you get "qualified" workers? They aren't just born. | |
|  |  |  |  |  See 7 replies to this post | |
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·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com
| said by JRW2:said by dr3yec1 :Please fire every stinking union member, there is plenty of replacements. Really?? Exactly how many qualified workers are there to replace all the workers you want fired?? Roughly 144,842 qualified to replace all the union workers ( »www.va.gov/HOMELESS/index.asp ). Union workers make me sick. Be appreciative they have a friggin job and my guess is only 10% are vets. There was a time the unions were useful -- 40yrs ago -- they've outlived their usefulness. LOL, cracks me up -- walking out of a job. -- That's "MISTER" Kafir to you. | |
|  |  |  |  |  See 18 replies to this post |
 |  | | You support unions, but then go on with the rest of your conflicting rant. You have no idea what youre talking about. | |
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·Charter
| Re: im just waiting... said by ITALIAN926:You support unions, but then go on with the rest of your conflicting rant. You have no idea what youre talking about. I am a member of a union, but I know there are plenty of other unemployed people who would love to be working, and cannot get a job because they cannot afford either the union dues(to keep the job, you must be a union member), or because the union deals with all the hiring, they will not hire outsiders very often.
I do support unions in their ideas of workers protections and benefits gained from collective bargaining. I do not support tactics such as this. Not only has this shown that AT&T is correct in their approach(they just got a reason to fire each and every employee that walked off, regardless of union status), but they are correct in their response of customer services. These unions want to support better customer services, but have decided to kill any chance of decent customer service by walking off the job. I will not participate in strikes, nor will i agree with them, because overall, they hurt only customers and the employees that walked off, they do not hurt the profits, BoD, CEOs, or anyone else. Also, as a bargaining tool, they are losing value, because every time there is something a union does not like, they cry "strike" instead of trying to negotiate. You can only use strong arm tactics for so long before they lose their power, and Mega corporations like AT&T will just hire other non-union employees for much less, train them, and possible give them a decent benefits package, and for all that, they will still spend less(and hopefully invest more in their network, but i doubt that will ever happen). Walk-offs and strikes only hurt customers, customer service, and the workers that walked off and their families, they do not hurt these companies at all. | |
|  |  |  |  CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium join:2011-08-11 NYC kudos:1 | Re: im just waiting... So what then would you consider 'appropriate action' for a union to prevent corporate abuses? Collective bargaining is nothing without the power to return fairness to the situation. | |
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·Charter
| Re: im just waiting... said by CXM_Splicer:So what then would you consider 'appropriate action' for a union to prevent corporate abuses? Collective bargaining is nothing without the power to return fairness to the situation. There will never be "fairness" in a cutthroat business like telecoms. First, since the unemployment rate is so high, there are lots of people that want a job and cannot get one, these walk offs only serve to show that unions have not shifted from the model of "we own the workers". Tactics like this work when the unemployment rate is low, because there isnt a lot of replacements. Right now, there is an abundance of replacements, and the only thing a walk-off does is give someone else a job, and ensure that the union workers dont get what they had(who would respect someone who would willingly abandon their job, its basically telling your employer "fuck you", and kicking your boss in the teeth, and then asking for a raise). I would suggest they attempt more subtle negotiation tactics, as in, requesting that they work under the same agreements they had until a new agreement is made(which they have not done as far as I could find). They could work more overtime hours, thus reducing profits and returns. I know it sounds ass backwards, but the only thing these corporations care about is their bottom line. There are many other subtle negotiation tactics they could use other than a walk off. Again, the only thing a walk off hurts is customers, and the workers and their families. As execs have said, it actually helps AT&T, because they dont have to pay for their benefits, pay their wages, or give them anything at all, which is just more money in Ts investors pockets. The only thing you could do to hurt T, is cut into their profits somehow, and stop cutting into their profits when they get what they want. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium join:2011-08-11 NYC kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: im just waiting... said by Chubbysumo:There will never be "fairness" in a cutthroat business like telecoms. So then everyone should just sit back and allow the telecoms to screw over its workers AND customers? It really sounds like that is what you're saying. The workers should just accept whatever scraps AT&T is willing to toss them and stop whining... in other words act like the slaves that they are with no recourse but to work even harder.
You also seem to hold AT&T completely innocent in this whole walk-off... it is just something the workers decided to do to screw over the customers? Back to reality; AT&T is totally to blame for setting up this situation.
If you are so eager to accept unfairness, then at least have the courtesy to extend that eagerness to what you would term 'union strong-arming'. Just accept that the unions can and will still pressure business to act more fairly to the people who actually do the work. After all... it's just good business. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: im just waiting... Unions have lost most of their power. This is an end of an era. | |
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 | | I'm not surprised by this. Do either of you know anyone that actually works in the field for AT&T? I do, and they treat their lineworkers like absolute shit. If I just needed a job, I'd rather work at McDonalds. I'm not joking. | |
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·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: I'm not surprised by this. Not to say anything bad against either directly but it comes down to money.
1. Lineworkers make more than McDonalds employees (I'm not talking management here). 2. McDonalds employees are typically customer facing, lineworkers are not.
Its a free country... if you don't like working as a lines person for AT&T / Verizon, etc. find another job / career. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Stupid
Do the unions really think that these kinds of immature activities will really endear AT&T to their cause? Maybe they go retro and blow up some AT&T company trucks or other physical plant. Meanwhile, there are tons of contractors who'd cheerfully take on the jobs they are presently doing.
Whether the unions want to accept it or not, the landline is going the way of the horse and buggy whip. The people who maintain this infrastructure simply are not in an advantageous negotiating position. -- Romney 2012 - Put an adult in charge. | |
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 |  |  | | Re: They don't care... they don't have to ha! | |
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 tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | This is exactly why unions exist. to protect the individual worker from the industrial giants. If the only way that the workers can protest the company executives arrogant attacks on their right to organize is to walk away for the day, then they did the right thing.
Ever customer should be angry with AT&T Vice President Betsy Farrell for her gleeful "saving money"...AT THE EXPENSE OF CUSTOMERS. who they will not charge less, or give them a free day, or repair their problems. | |
|  |  See 11 replies to this post | |
 shortcktWatchen Das Blinken LightsPremium join:2000-12-05 Tenant Hell | So this would be a bad time to accidentally take out a trunk with a backhoe or something? | |
|  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: So this would be a bad time to Yes! Because vandlizism degrades the workers in the public view, and is unnessesary. One day off reminds management and informes the public of the struggle that the skilled workers go through to do their job which is what actually provides the services they need. How many vice presidents does it take to screw in a light bulb? You can be sure splicing fiber or reprograming a switch is beyond their inflated pay grade 
Depending on the terms of their contracts the workers MAY be risking their jobs, but almost everyone would protest a pay cut of this type.
If the company actually needs less workers, nothing prevents them from laying some off, what they are trying to do is have the same or more workers for less money | |
|  |  |  shortcktWatchen Das Blinken LightsPremium join:2000-12-05 Tenant Hell | Re: So this would be a bad time to said by tshirt:Yes! Because vandlizism degrades the workers in the public view, and is unnessesary. I should have been clearer, I didn't mean a "backhoe accident " by some workers, but a genuine accident that causes some damage, which would leave management scrambling to juggle repair crews and meet their business customers' uptime requirements.
said by tshirt:...You can be sure splicing fiber or reprograming a switch is beyond their inflated pay grade 
...what they are trying to do is have the same or more works for less money Management would be useless without the trades that keep everything running, and not just in the communications industry. It's unconscionable that the companies are asking for pay and benefit cuts at the same time they posted record profits quarter after quarter. | |
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 amungusPremium join:2004-11-26 America Reviews:
·KCH Cable
·AT&T DSL Service
| why so angry? I just don't understand the hatred/anger from some people regarding anything at all "union" related...
There are so many more things in life to be angry about.
What does it matter that some group is trying to get what they agreed to? What does it hurt? Does further insult help anyone? Do two wrongs make a right?
Should everyone just go ahead and settle for pure slavery?
I'm not saying I agree with the walk out, the union(s), or any of it, but it certainly isn't my place to judge them - I'm not in their shoes, and I'm not a huge fan of AT&T either. What does that make me? Largely indifferent, except for the human part of the equation.
The human part is that we have "ma bell" executives who wouldn't care one bit if they hired totally inept people at $1/hr. This is hard to be indifferent to, but it's the sad reality of a motivation driven more by greed than anything else.
Being that we already shipped "boatloads" of our economy overseas in the name of greed, and we're fast approaching a currency that's less valuable than toilet paper, I have less sympathy for an arrogant, overpaid executive than workers who happen to belong to a union. | |
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 netwirePremium join:2001-04-27 Shelby, NC kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
| Unions... Union wants more money = Customer pays more for services and products due to increased cost... simple math really. Seems to me that unions run up the cost. -- The above nonsense was brought to you in part by Netwire. Your premier internet discussion board information and solutions provider. | |
|  |  | | Re: Unions... So make a good example and decline any wage increases and added benefits at your workplace for the next ten years. Youre driving up costs for YOUR industries customers ! | |
|  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| And the oil company charges more for gas, and vehicles cost more and the office people cost more and so on.
While non-executive pay has fallen in real world dollars compared to the rates charged, executive and upper management salaries have skyrocketed. If you want a price break, start at the top. | |
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 NetFixerFrom my cold dead handsPremium join:2004-06-24 The Boro Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast
| Telco management and the CWA Telco management and the CWA remind me of the closing scene in Animal Farm:
said by George Orwell :Summer arrives. Squealer is seen to take all the sheep of the farm aside, and no-one sees them for a week. The sheep eventually return. That evening, as the animals are returning to the yard from work, Clover is heard neighing excitedly from the yard. The animals rush forward to see what is happening. They stop dead when they all see what has startled Clover. It is the sight of Squealer walking upright, on his hind legs. At this moment, all of the pigs leave the farmhouse in single file, all upright on two legs. Finally, Napoleon emerges from the farmhouse, upright and carrying a whip.
It is the most shocking thing the animals have ever seen. It goes against everything that they have been taught up to then. Just as it seems that someone might object, the sheep break into a deafening chorus of Four legs good, two legs better. They went on for five minutes, during which the pigs walked briefly around and then returned to the farmhouse. The chance to protest is gone. Clover goes to the gable wall and brings Benjamin with her. She asks Benjamin to read for her what is on the gable wall. All the commandments are gone, and all that is written there now is All animals are equal, But some animals are more equal than others.
After this, the pigs and their sows start wearing clothes and carrying whips. They begin to have more direct dealings with the neighbouring farmers. One day, the pigs invite a number of the local farmers to inspect the farm. After the inspection, the pigs and the farmers return to the farmhouse for a celebration. After a time, loud noises of laughter and singing are heard through the windows. The other animals are overcome with curiosity, and they approach the farmhouse to see what is going on. They look through the windows to see the pigs and farmers seated around the living room table, playing cards, making speeches and congratulating one another. Mr Pilkington makes a speech telling the pigs how impressed he is with Animal Farm, especially with the hard work and poor rations of the farm animals. Napoleon makes a speech in return, expressing his happiness that the mistrust between Animal Farm and the others is now at an end. He furthermore announces that the animals will cease to address each other as Comrade, and that Animal Farm will now revert to being called Manor Farm. As Napoleon finishes his speech to great applause, the animals outside seem to notice something changing in the features of the pigs, but what?
As the applause dies down and the card game is resumed, the animals creep away from the window. However, they hurry back when they hear a furious argument break out. The argument is because Mr. Pilkington and Napoleon have both played an Ace of Spades at the same time. But as the animals look from Napoleon to Pilkington, from man to pig and from pig back to man, they find that they are unable to tell the difference. -- History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower | |
|  Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
·voip.ms
| Unions are questionable OK. I have a number of union people and my wife, so I'm very familiar with the promise of unions, etc. From my perspective every time my SO needed the union for help, they didn't come through so other than the $1000 she doles away it's questionable as to whether it's needed for government employees.
There are headwinds toward unions, and keep in mind that the majority of unions are government workers, which is self serving and out of whack considering my wifes package is VASTLY superior to mine (I'm an exec) including a posh pension funded by the taxpayers.
So:
1. Unions were meant originally for controlling the corporations when the US was growing and we actually produced things. Since that is all in China now, that is the place for unions. 2. Abusing employees is what every corporation I have every worked for, except for the gov't which just being there was abusive L) 3. People are living longer and doing so by getting fat, taking pills, and repeating. Now this means medical costs and longevity break the pension model. They expected you to retire at 65 and die at 67, not 97. 4. Medical - It's just a mess, and having that covered by your employer is an expense that wasn't there 30 years ago. 5. Fungibility - Every single report that comes out clearly shows that there are two areas of growth - lower paid service workers (to serve everyone else), and highly skilled employees (doctors, engineers, etc) which wages have been going up. Everyone else in the middle is in a funk because the skill levels while not 1:1 replaceable is a swap in an economy with high inflation. So while doubt you can replace a lineman w/ 20 years of experience, you can bring in a guy with 18 months of experience and get him to do a "decent" job. Labor/Production. 6. Labor Unions will not help the workers, since if your job is outsourced or can be done more cheaply somewhere else, it will. 7. Wages, supply -> Negotiating bands in these flexible times is impossible. So this means the guy w/ 20 years is getting paid the same as another (are these guys replaceable), but what happened to the idiot savant who is better than them with 3 years of "time in"? Well, you are just widgets, so you are paid as such.
I can go on--I think Unions should get smart and create their own ecosystem (employment services, pensions, medical, training, college) and then they would yield way more power than a single corporation, and that way they would be able to control supply better, and in turn raise wages where appropriate in a supply bargaining position. If they don't do this, then they deserve to go away.
Look at the innovation of the AARP, that's a model to emulate. | |
|  | | Unions I'm all for unions as long as the power isn't abused. Which any power can be abused but that's the point is to keep a system in check. The fact is unions can be helpful at times and protect a workers right. I've been fired from a job for a crap reason and had no recourse being in a work at will state with very little labor laws.
I wish I'd had a union then maybe I'd at least had some backing or recourse to help me out. The fact is companies don't like unions because they'd rather you not have any support. To just be fired for any reason with no recourse. Employees are valued much less these days and it's sad that in this day in age most companies view you as a number and when you go big deal another person will replace you. I think we need stronger labor laws in this country and we need to set up a system that makes it harder to fire workers.
The system is so one sided now and based off pure profit for the company. How about we cap how much companies can make? Employees have salary caps, so maybe companies should have profit caps. When you exceed then money has to go to other things such as employee benefits, pay, to the customers etc... There is no sense in a company hoarding tons of moneys and nobody benefiting from it except the most highest of executives who in one day can make more than a hard worker can in ONE year. | |
|  2 edits | I'll never understand why people back & AT&T & Verizon & this type of behavior coming from a company that makes money, hand over fist, off the backs of its dedicated employees. It might be their right as, they are a corporation & have the right to make as much as possible. But to me its totally un-american - to consistently make billions off of said employees & then eliminate their jobs & not place them in new ones or try & strip benefits. This speaks volumes about why our country is in the shape that its in. Its not necessarily because the economy is bad, but also because the said companies want to protect their record profits, at the peril that are the american people. AT&T & Verizon -Rethinking of ways to screw america. | |
|  |  AlakarFacts do not cease to exist when ignored join:2001-03-23 Milwaukee, WI | Re: I'll never Yeah, those evil unions. Why can't they leave those rich CEO's alone... | |
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 CWA @mycingular.net | We walked! We walked.....We are ok with what we have. Just don't take it away! Example, I'm paying 18% into my healthcare. Why does AT&T want to raise it to 32% in a 2 year time frames? yet they just paid T-mobile billions for their screw up. Executives racking up Millions in stock options and bonuses. They want to transfer or sell their DSL lines, with no guarantee of offering me a job to stay. We all have families, I'm just trying to provide for my 3 children and stay at home mom/wife. I can't afford a pay cut or job loss. We all deserve jobs, corporate America just doesn't care......Executives are sending everything over seas! Unions are far from being perfect yet they are my voice in a vast ocean full of uncertainties! | |
|  |  etaadmin join:2002-01-17 Dallas, TX kudos:1 | Re: We walked! said by CWA :We walked.....We are ok with what we have. Just don't take it away! Example, I'm paying 18% into my healthcare. Why does AT&T want to raise it to 32% in a 2 year time frames? yet they just paid T-mobile billions for their screw up. Executives racking up Millions in stock options and bonuses. They want to transfer or sell their DSL lines, with no guarantee of offering me a job to stay. We all have families, I'm just trying to provide for my 3 children and stay at home mom/wife. I can't afford a pay cut or job loss. We all deserve jobs, corporate America just doesn't care......Executives are sending everything over seas! Unions are far from being perfect yet they are my voice in a vast ocean full of uncertainties! You and all of us 'don't deserve' a job it is OUR RIGHT to have a job and the 18% soon to be 32% you pay for healthcare SHOULD BE 0% paid by our taxes. We don't want handouts or charity we want fair treatment and the only viable option is to join an union.
Do you expect Randal Stephenson to care? Do you expect the GOP to care? Look at what happened to the universal health care proposal, insurance companies (the middle man) got their way and sabotaged the whole thing.
We are indeed the 99%. | |
|  |  |  pianotechPianotechPremium join:2002-12-30 New Castle, PA Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast
| Re: We walked! said by etaadmin:said by CWA :We walked.....We are ok with what we have. Just don't take it away! Example, I'm paying 18% into my healthcare. Why does AT&T want to raise it to 32% in a 2 year time frames? yet they just paid T-mobile billions for their screw up. Executives racking up Millions in stock options and bonuses. They want to transfer or sell their DSL lines, with no guarantee of offering me a job to stay. We all have families, I'm just trying to provide for my 3 children and stay at home mom/wife. I can't afford a pay cut or job loss. We all deserve jobs, corporate America just doesn't care......Executives are sending everything over seas! Unions are far from being perfect yet they are my voice in a vast ocean full of uncertainties! You and all of us 'don't deserve' a job it is OUR RIGHT to have a job and the 18% soon to be 32% you pay for healthcare SHOULD BE 0% paid by our taxes. We don't want handouts or charity we want fair treatment and the only viable option is to join an union. Do you expect Randal Stephenson to care? Do you expect the GOP to care? Look at what happened to the universal health care proposal, insurance companies (the middle man) got their way and sabotaged the whole thing. We are indeed the 99%. Sorry, but a job is not a "right." No one is ENTITLED to a job. Just like no one is "entitled" to a car or a house or a cell phone or Justin Bieber's new album. All those things are available to anyone who goes after them, but last I checked, no one goes around knocking on doors distributing those things if you don't have them. -- New to ham radio - advice from Elmers appreciated! | |
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 |  pianotechPianotechPremium join:2002-12-30 New Castle, PA Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast
| said by CWA :We walked.....We are ok with what we have. Just don't take it away! Example, I'm paying 18% into my healthcare. Why does AT&T want to raise it to 32% in a 2 year time frames? yet they just paid T-mobile billions for their screw up. Executives racking up Millions in stock options and bonuses. They want to transfer or sell their DSL lines, with no guarantee of offering me a job to stay. We all have families, I'm just trying to provide for my 3 children and stay at home mom/wife. I can't afford a pay cut or job loss. We all deserve jobs, corporate America just doesn't care......Executives are sending everything over seas! Unions are far from being perfect yet they are my voice in a vast ocean full of uncertainties! You poor thing! Try self employment where you pay 100% of your health care. -- New to ham radio - advice from Elmers appreciated! | |
|  |  |  Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: We walked! .... and if youre unhappy with YOUR life, find a job that pays for your healthcare. How the hell do people like you develop the attitude that " If I dont have it, they shouldnt either "
Instead of trying to drag others down to "your level" , whatever that may be, you should try making your life better.
"You poor thing"... The ignorance is overwhelming. | |
|  |  |  | | Don't be mad that you have to pay 100% of your health care, be happy that you are your own boss. If you are not happy about paying 100% of your healthcare, go apply @ AT&T, for now you would only pay 18%, unless they get their way and raise it to 32% w/ a measly 3% raise. WOW that sounds like a major paycut. Going back, that's an 82% savings for you for now, but wait. Now you will have to report to a boss at 7:30 AM M-F, work 8 hrs or more. Your weekends my also be taken away from you, but no longer at a higher pay. You are no longer your own boss. By the way AT&T trucks have GPS. Everything has pros and cons. | |
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 Reviews:
·Charter
| Truth of the matter is... To most workers union pay scales are outrageous. Almost insane. People making 20, 30 bucks and hour. And they have good benefits. Lots of vacation time.
The reason they are mad and hate unions is because their pay has not increased like union scale has over the years and conservatives have taught people that this is wrong. We are getting screwed out of our retirements, vacations, health insurance. Pay is being cut. We are losing everything we worked for.
The exact opposite is the real truth here - if employee pay had increased at anything even remotely close to executive pay and stockholder dividends minimum wage workers would be earning 23 an hour and the rest of us way, way more. Then, union scale would look like average pay and no one would be tricked into believing it is unfair.
The reason union pay is high and the rest of us get peanuts is because we are individuals with no power against the employer and they are a force of employees with an equal power over the employer.
But hey, go ahead and hate unions. They gave us weekends, the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, safety. Give that all up, hand it over to the corporations and in another ten years their pay will have gone up another 1,000 percent and we will be making a dollar an hour.
Unions are not the problem. The people who continue to increase their pay while they cut ours and set record profits are the problem. You don't make more money than you ever have in history and need to make cuts unless you're greedy. | |
|  | | I can't believe what some of you are brain-washed into ..believing. You have been endowed by your Creator with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not "happiness", but "the pursuit of happiness". You do NOT have a right to force some doctor to see and treat you for 0 dollars. You have a naturally occurring right to receive fair-market value for your labor, as men have throughout history. Your skill and competence will either get you a job or won't. Joining a thuggish club does not make you any more entitled to a job than not joining a thuggish club. You are entitled to the fruits of your labor, whatever that might entail. If you attend years of schooling and have a proven history of knowing how to move a multi-billion dollar company through a rough economy as your core market becomes more and more competitive, then negotiate hard and get all you can. If you can get millions, get millions. If you prefer a trade that allows you to clock out at 5, and be on to the rest of your life without feeling the weight of responsibility of your job on your shoulders, then by all means, get what you can. Bottom line is: you're not naturally entitled to anything. It's amazing what power people will give to the others to avoid having to take personal responsibility for their lives and their actions. If you want more money, further your education, or better your trade. Make YOURSELF more valuable, and you'll be rewarded. Don't be ignorant of history. | |
|  |  | | Re: I can't believe what some of you are brain-washed into Well said Randall Stephenson !!!!!!
LMAO | |
|  |  | | said by Surprised :. Bottom line is: you're not naturally entitled to anything. but you JUST listed off a bunch of things you believe you are entitled to. i don't understand. but then...
said by Surprised :. Don't be ignorant of history. perhaps you should heed your own advice and learn about the labour movement. | |
|  |  CXM_SplicerLooking at the bigger picturePremium join:2011-08-11 NYC kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Actually, it is the businesses that have been (and always will be) the thuggish clubs... do as LucasLee suggests and further your own education.
said by Surprised :Bottom line is: you're not naturally entitled to anything. Now, if you would just explain that to the shareholders!!! | |
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 | | u are all deluded ... The company wants to pay the least for the most amount of work. They don't want to pay for any benefits. they will gladly overcharge for the simplest of services. Non union workers are going to make a few dollars more than their last jobs and have to deal with all kinds of stupid micromanaging bullshit. EVERYONE is entitled to a cost of living increase! As the world becomes more expensive your pay needs to follow. Can one of u brilliant complainers show me in the last 10 years where I got my cost of living increase? NO! because we didn't.. and we have had to pay progressively more money for deductibles and insurance and EVERYTHING. I shell out close to 10grand a year for medical and other insurance... | |
|  hsdguy join:2001-06-17 Plymouth, MA | Unions/Contracts Why does everyone bash the working guys union/contract when we're not happy with when the companies try to not live up to their end of the bargain. No one seems to get upset when a top exec turns down his contract when he doesn't like the terms, and yes for you people out there.... all of these over paid sitting on their asses waste of oxygen fat cats have contracts. they may not be called union contracts but they have a written agreement with the company they work for and they and the company has to abide to it. But haven for bid the exec doesn't like the deal they go back to the table to work it out. and again i ask why doesn't anyone piss in the wind when the execs don't play nice. you work you get paid a decent wage and live your life. it's really not that hard. | |
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 | | IT"S ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHY WE ARE ALL GOING TO HELL I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE PROTECTING AT&T. EVERY COMPANY TODAY IS PUSHING THEIR WORKER TO THE BRINK OF EXHAUSTION. COMPANIES DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR WORKERS, WE ARE JUST THROWAWAY'S IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HARD YOU WORK, BUT IF YOU LEAVE ONE MINUTE BEFORE YOUR SHIFT IS OVER YOUR FIRED. SO FOLKS WAKE UP WE ARE ALL BEING TREATED THE SAME WAY (EXPENDABLE) YEA IDIOT FEEL LUCKY, EVERYONE ELSE IS STARVING, AND MANAGEMENT IS GESTAPO. AMERICA WILL NOT SURVIVE MUCH LONGER THIS WAY... | |
|  | | This aint your Dads phone company My wife currently works for ATT with 31 years of service. She has walked every picket line during every strike, and was strong CWA member. As each contract change resulted in less employee benefits, and each layoff cycle occurred, the effectiveness of the CWA diminished. I can only speak for her Local and work location, but the Job Stewards are indifferent, aloof and dont care. The workers are disgusted, sick of being treated like Chinese slaves. In general, no one likes their job, they hate ATT management, and see the company like a house of cards. If the Job Stewards dont give a dam, what does that tell ya. The CWA of recent has done nothing for the ATT worker-it has taken their union dues and fed their political coffers and their executive pay. The workers are the Union-the apathy of the worker has infected the Local Union shops. ATT sees this and uses this to their advantage. With economic conditions this bad, the Company can do whatever it wants within the law..and the way the current Contracts are written-the worker has very little rights. Its bad. and its going to get worse. From the first steps of Divestiture (»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Syste···estiture) to today, each step that broke up the Bell System hurt the worker and made money for the Bankers, Lawyers and CEO's. Remember it was the US Government that forced the break up of the Bell System. For an Audio/Video of AT&T Breakup 25th Anniversary event go here; »isoc-ny.org/?p=618
I write this as witness to my Wife's 31 years of service, remembering the days of the Bell system company picnics, when the Bell system was a sign of US strength and innovation, when Management and Union all worked to improve the work life and incomes of the Bell worker. As a former IBEW worker for a major US electric utility,(80's-2000) I can attest to similar worker apathy-as the company reaped great profits, each cycle of the union labor contract always had less for the worker. What is the head master of the unions - the AFL-CIO doing about this? They are funding the man that bears great responsibility to the worst US employment conditions in history-Barak Obama. | |
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