 GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11 Duluth, GA
| One dimensional thinking Need not apply. Coverage is good if you are out in the boonies a lot, traveling between cities, state to state, etc., but RF engineering isn't one-dimensional.
Verizon is marketing on the ignorance of the common cellular user. Verizon, like AT&T and every other cellular carrier, knows that RF engineering is multidimensional.
Now, if you are someone that drives on the road for a living between cities, across states, etc., then coverage is a nice thing to have.
But, if you are more common to being in a city than not something other than Verizon's coverage advertising will not be the primary factor, but rather call capacity.
But none of this matters for 99.999% of cellular users. They bought on want and marketing, not common sense and research. | |
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 |  |  GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11 Duluth, GA
| Re: One dimensional thinking You are suggesting that consumers are conscious of a difference in coverage needed, but I'm suggesting consumers are ignorant to the multidimensional aspects of RF engineering, that Verizon knows of this consumer ignorance, and marketed accordingly.
Ignorance is bliss, as Verizon would suggest. And hey, I am not even using AT&T Wireless. Just that I know a little something about cellular RF engineering and can observe the common consumer. | |
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 |  |  |   RRedline Rated R Premium join:2002-05-15 Williamsport, PA
| Re: One dimensional thinking said by GhostDoggy :Ignorance is bliss, as Verizon would suggest. And hey, I am not even using AT&T Wireless. Just that I know a little something about cellular RF engineering and can observe the common consumer. Verizon has better 3G coverage than AT&T does. I'm not sure what ignorance has to do with a fact such as that.
It sounds like you work for AT&T. -- One nation, under Zod! | |
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 |  |  |  |  jimness000
join:2005-03-28 West Chicago, IL
| Re: One dimensional thinking I travel for work, and use a smart phone. For most people, the smart phone collects email automatically, and we just read it when we get a chance.
For this purpose, the difference between 2G and 3G connections is meaningless. I was camping for three days two weeks ago, in the boonies. I had one (2G) bar on my phone, but was able to receive and send email with no problem. Speed is just not an issue.
On the rare occasions that I use the web browser - maybe to check the weather radar, or check in for my flight - I hope for 3G, so I don't grow old waiting. But, that's rare.
At home I have a need for speed, but for smart phone email, I don't. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   RRedline Rated R Premium join:2002-05-15 Williamsport, PA
| Re: One dimensional thinking said by jimness000 :For this purpose, the difference between 2G and 3G connections is meaningless. I was camping for three days two weeks ago, in the boonies. I had one (2G) bar on my phone, but was able to receive and send email with no problem. Speed is just not an issue. And what about people in areas where they barely have ANY data speeds at all? Between my hometown and the town I work in, I am very lucky just to be able to send/receive email. I get anywhere from 0 to 100 kbps (and it's not at all uncommon to be at 0). -- One nation, under Zod! | |
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 |  |  |  |   a1744c
@myvzw.com
| The red on the map, is it purely EVDO (3G) or 1xRTT? How much is 3G and how much is 1xrtt. As far as i know since i used it every in DC, when you fall to 1Xrtt, it doesnt fall back to 3G. Now you might not be experiencing that in voice but in data, we do all the time.... | |
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 |  |  |  |   RationaBiker
@cox.net
| AT&T coverage is just as good as Verizon in the city where I live. I don't care how many more places Verizon has 3G coverage if I spend 99% of my time in the same place that has AT&T coverage.
It may be great that Verizon has coverage in Backwoods Alabama, and AT&T doesn't, but that will never make one iota of difference to many, many people.
The point that Ghostdoggy is trying to make is that for many, many customers the extra coverage doesn't mean squat. In that respect, "better" coverage is immaterial. I'll take an iPhone over any crippled Verizon phone ANY day. | |
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 |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | So you're saying that capacity is as important as/ore important than coverage? Well, Verizon beats AT&T there too. | |
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 |  |  |  |   dmeyer
join:2002-08-14 Austin, TX | Re: One dimensional thinking In certain geographic areas that is true. However, the opposite is very much true in certain areas as well. That is the fact. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: One dimensional thinking Welcome to the world of YMMV. However Verizon talked about 3G coverage in their ads, so they're fine. | |
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 |  |  |   morbo Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22 00000 clubs: | Re: One dimensional thinking thanks for that link. very useful. | |
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 |  bostonkarl1
join:2003-07-09 Arlington, VA
| What century are you living in?
These are mobile phones. People are mobile. People visit Grandma and Grandpa that live in a different state. People go to theme parks and National Parks for vacation. Where's the nearest gas station? Where's a restaurant or laundrymat or drug store in the area?
Big Red is marketting that their 3g network coverage is larger. It is a tangible benefit for those who are mobile.
(BTW, I am an happy iphone user who fully understands ATT's network coverage issues.) | |
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 |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: One dimensional thinking Its a vast generalization. AT&T will only shoot themselves in the foot by bringing more attention to VZW that their network isn't all that.
They have +80 million subscribers... but this will tarnish their image possibly more than customers complaining over the iPhone.
said by bostonkarl1 : People visit Grandma and Grandpa that live in a different state
Yeah, and these devices will still work. VZW poured a little salt in AT&T's wound... AT&T should focus on fixing their issues, rather than making them more well known by making this public. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 |   statecop Premium join:2002-09-16 Beverly Hills, CA
| said by GhostDoggy :Need not apply. Coverage is good if you are out in the boonies a lot, traveling between cities, state to state, etc., but RF engineering isn't one-dimensional. Verizon is marketing on the ignorance of the common cellular user. Verizon, like AT&T and every other cellular carrier, knows that RF engineering is multidimensional. I am not sure what world you are living in but I have had Verizon prior to moving to AT&T. I went to AT&T just to get the iphone and while I enjoy my iphone it is quickly becoming now worth the BAD coverage, numerous dropped calls, and lack of 3G coverage. I am very tech savvy and have used both. I travel all over my state and can tell you it isnt even close the network coverage ATT has against what verizon offers. The day the iphone can be put on verizon will sound the death rattle of AT&T in the cell market.
While I do not want to give up my iphone I am considering it due to the bad service from AT&T. | |
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 w4ncr
join:2000-10-27 | better packages, faster speeds better customer service VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM. | |
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 |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service said by w4ncr :VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM. People sure bash AT&T all the time. This is not even the worst. Yes, in some cases they deserve it(like how bad they lock down the iphone). AT&Ts supposed "3G" may not be as wide, but does anyone look at the fact that AT&T has gone on an upgrade path that requires new radios and all. UMTS is way superior to EVDO. However, Verizon's speed upgrades to EVDO do not require hardware upgrades at the sites and is backward compatible with older CDMA technology phones. Only upgrades that may be needed is backhaul, but I think VZW claimed to have enough already when they were upgrading. AT&Ts technology is not going to realize its full potential until the buildout is more complete. Some areas it's already fantastic. I can get about 3.3 mbit on speed tests 50 miles east of here(a well built-out 3G area). UMTS also allows simultaneous voice and data. Not to mention it has a future upgrade path that AT&T plans to use. Verizon will be going through some of this soon as they switch to LTE. That is, running 2 networks at the same time in order to build out new technology that requires a full hardware upgrade. We'll see if their LTE coverage starts any better vs the 3G AT&T has had in these earlier days of UMTS use in the states. Yes, it's a fair comparison because Verizon will then have to do what AT&T has to do-make a full hardware upgrade to the sites. | |
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 |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey | Unlocked phones work on their network. Thats good enough for me. | |
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 |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service Define "work"  | |
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 |  Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| said by w4ncr :VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM. Verizon costs more. | |
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 |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service ??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think. | |
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 |  |  |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service said by iansltx :??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think. Were they not proposing an 80 MB/month limit at Verizon Wireless not too long ago for dumbphones? In this case, AT&T would win hands down as they nor Sprint have made such an idiotic proposal. | |
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 |  |  |  |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service To my knowledge Verizon didn't do that. They have 25MB and 75MB plans, but you can still get a "Connect" plan (I think it's connect, maybe it's select) with unlimited messaging and data. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service said by iansltx :To my knowledge Verizon didn't do that. They have 25MB and 75MB plans, but you can still get a "Connect" plan (I think it's connect, maybe it's select) with unlimited messaging and data. Good to know. | |
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 |  |  |  Necronomikro
join:2005-09-01
| said by iansltx :??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think. When I was looking, they were a few bucks more than AT&T for the equivalent to what i'm getting now.
T-Mobile is a bit cheaper, and sprint a bit cheaper than T-Mobile. | |
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 |   RationalBike
@cox.net
| Re: Oddly enough There is an AT&T store near the Verizon store where I live as well. The Verizon store usually is much busier. That's why I like going to the AT&T store - I won't have to wait a half hour in line just to see a rep. I walk in and get service right away AT&T. | |
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 |   phonesbite
@cox.net
| Most of the ppl I saw were in the store complaining about their phones.
With the recent end of service between qwest and sprint verizon stores may have seemed more active during October.
I wonder if they are busier because their phones are cheaply made. stripped down options, from the choice of phones Verizon's bite!
I see why they offer the new every two.
looking at durable phones from verizon is a joke. the do not compare to moto i580 or sanyo scp7050 but these are for sprint Nextel. AT&T has some too. | |
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  FastiBook
join:2003-01-08 Newtown, PA | Interesting.... Don't think going vzw will uncork data bottlenecks, every network has them, they are usually random and vary in severity, large coverage or not.
- A -- LETS GO METS! | |
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