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story category AT&T's Memo To Employees About Verizon Suit
'If anybody asks, just tell them we're incredibly awesome...'
09:10AM Thursday Nov 05 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · wireless
The other day we noted how AT&T was suing Verizon over their "There's A Map For That" ad campaign, claiming the ads misrepresented AT&T's wireless network coverage. A leaked memo from AT&T management to employees has surfaced, telling them what to tell consumers should they ask about the lawsuit. In short: "tell customers we're awesome" is the meat of the memo, which not surprisingly omits AT&T's recent struggles with iPhone data capacity and the fact that yeah, Verizon does have better 3G coverage. In short, the suit still seems like it could backfire, given it simply brings greater attention to the fact that Verizon does have better 3G coverage -- no matter what maps you're looking at.

Related:
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  3. Verizon To Be Tested By Unofficial Droid Tethering
  4. Sprint Settles Over Stealth Contract Extensions
  5. Femtocells Are A No Show
  6. Judge Denies AT&T Motion To Dismiss Verizon Ads
  7. Telus Sues Rogers Over Ad Claims
  8. Deutsche Telekom Looking For U.S. T-Mobile Partner
Forums » AT&T's Memo To Employees About Verizon Suit
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GhostDoggy

join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA

One dimensional thinking

Need not apply. Coverage is good if you are out in the boonies a lot, traveling between cities, state to state, etc., but RF engineering isn't one-dimensional.

Verizon is marketing on the ignorance of the common cellular user. Verizon, like AT&T and every other cellular carrier, knows that RF engineering is multidimensional.

Now, if you are someone that drives on the road for a living between cities, across states, etc., then coverage is a nice thing to have.

But, if you are more common to being in a city than not something other than Verizon's coverage advertising will not be the primary factor, but rather call capacity.

But none of this matters for 99.999% of cellular users. They bought on want and marketing, not common sense and research.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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Re: One dimensional thinking

said by GhostDoggy See Profile :

They bought on want and marketing, not common sense and research.
The facts show that Verizon has better 3g coverage than AT&T. Marketing this difference by Verizon is a huge advantage, and users that want the most for their money will go with a provider that offers more for the same price. Consumers know value.
GhostDoggy

join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA

Re: One dimensional thinking

You are suggesting that consumers are conscious of a difference in coverage needed, but I'm suggesting consumers are ignorant to the multidimensional aspects of RF engineering, that Verizon knows of this consumer ignorance, and marketed accordingly.

Ignorance is bliss, as Verizon would suggest. And hey, I am not even using AT&T Wireless. Just that I know a little something about cellular RF engineering and can observe the common consumer.

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA

Re: One dimensional thinking

said by GhostDoggy See Profile :

Ignorance is bliss, as Verizon would suggest. And hey, I am not even using AT&T Wireless. Just that I know a little something about cellular RF engineering and can observe the common consumer.
Verizon has better 3G coverage than AT&T does. I'm not sure what ignorance has to do with a fact such as that.

It sounds like you work for AT&T.
--
One nation, under Zod!
jimness000

join:2005-03-28
West Chicago, IL

Re: One dimensional thinking

I travel for work, and use a smart phone. For most people, the smart phone collects email automatically, and we just read it when we get a chance.

For this purpose, the difference between 2G and 3G connections is meaningless. I was camping for three days two weeks ago, in the boonies. I had one (2G) bar on my phone, but was able to receive and send email with no problem. Speed is just not an issue.

On the rare occasions that I use the web browser - maybe to check the weather radar, or check in for my flight - I hope for 3G, so I don't grow old waiting. But, that's rare.

At home I have a need for speed, but for smart phone email, I don't.

RRedline
Rated R
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Williamsport, PA

Re: One dimensional thinking

said by jimness000 See Profile :

For this purpose, the difference between 2G and 3G connections is meaningless. I was camping for three days two weeks ago, in the boonies. I had one (2G) bar on my phone, but was able to receive and send email with no problem. Speed is just not an issue.
And what about people in areas where they barely have ANY data speeds at all? Between my hometown and the town I work in, I am very lucky just to be able to send/receive email. I get anywhere from 0 to 100 kbps (and it's not at all uncommon to be at 0).
--
One nation, under Zod!

a1744c

@myvzw.com


The red on the map, is it purely EVDO (3G) or 1xRTT? How much is 3G and how much is 1xrtt. As far as i know since i used it every in DC, when you fall to 1Xrtt, it doesnt fall back to 3G. Now you might not be experiencing that in voice but in data, we do all the time....

RationaBiker

@cox.net

AT&T coverage is just as good as Verizon in the city where I live. I don't care how many more places Verizon has 3G coverage if I spend 99% of my time in the same place that has AT&T coverage.

It may be great that Verizon has coverage in Backwoods Alabama, and AT&T doesn't, but that will never make one iota of difference to many, many people.

The point that Ghostdoggy is trying to make is that for many, many customers the extra coverage doesn't mean squat. In that respect, "better" coverage is immaterial. I'll take an iPhone over any crippled Verizon phone ANY day.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
So you're saying that capacity is as important as/ore important than coverage? Well, Verizon beats AT&T there too.

dmeyer

join:2002-08-14
Austin, TX

Re: One dimensional thinking

In certain geographic areas that is true. However, the opposite is very much true in certain areas as well. That is the fact.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO

Re: One dimensional thinking

Welcome to the world of YMMV. However Verizon talked about 3G coverage in their ads, so they're fine.
fjr3020

join:2008-07-22
Miami, FL


1 edit
Most for your money?? I think it will be sprint there 3g coverage is not as bad as att or t-mobile and cost way less than verizon. take a look at the map that is from verizon »vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotco···ison.pdf

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
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clubs:

Re: One dimensional thinking

thanks for that link. very useful.
bostonkarl1

join:2003-07-09
Arlington, VA

What century are you living in?

These are mobile phones. People are mobile. People visit Grandma and Grandpa that live in a different state. People go to theme parks and National Parks for vacation. Where's the nearest gas station? Where's a restaurant or laundrymat or drug store in the area?

Big Red is marketting that their 3g network coverage is larger. It is a tangible benefit for those who are mobile.

(BTW, I am an happy iphone user who fully understands ATT's network coverage issues.)

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: One dimensional thinking

Its a vast generalization.
AT&T will only shoot themselves in the foot by bringing more attention to VZW that their network isn't all that.

They have +80 million subscribers... but this will tarnish their image possibly more than customers complaining over the iPhone.

said by bostonkarl1 :
People visit Grandma and Grandpa that live in a different state
Yeah, and these devices will still work.
VZW poured a little salt in AT&T's wound... AT&T should focus on fixing their issues, rather than making them more well known by making this public.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Washington, DC
·Cox HSI
·Comcast

but having moved around to a few cities recently, I tend to be a little more open to the argument about wanting flexibility with my service even if I don't ever use it.

Whether it is vacation spots, friends in other locations, etc....moreso than ever, extending the service is probably becoming MORE important

sousademiami

join:2003-02-04
Hialeah, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast


1 edit
The map says "5x more 3G coverage" on it.
Not 5x more 3G capacity, or 5x more coverage. Specifically referring to 3G coverage. And they do.

Hey, I love my iPhone, and I couldn't function without it anymore at this point. But AT&T's network sucks.
--
OASAASLLS

statecop
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Beverly Hills, CA

said by GhostDoggy See Profile :

Need not apply. Coverage is good if you are out in the boonies a lot, traveling between cities, state to state, etc., but RF engineering isn't one-dimensional.

Verizon is marketing on the ignorance of the common cellular user. Verizon, like AT&T and every other cellular carrier, knows that RF engineering is multidimensional.
I am not sure what world you are living in but I have had Verizon prior to moving to AT&T. I went to AT&T just to get the iphone and while I enjoy my iphone it is quickly becoming now worth the BAD coverage, numerous dropped calls, and lack of 3G coverage. I am very tech savvy and have used both. I travel all over my state and can tell you it isnt even close the network coverage ATT has against what verizon offers. The day the iphone can be put on verizon will sound the death rattle of AT&T in the cell market.

While I do not want to give up my iphone I am considering it due to the bad service from AT&T.
w4ncr

join:2000-10-27

better packages, faster speeds better customer service

VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM.
Selenia

join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

said by w4ncr See Profile :

VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM.
People sure bash AT&T all the time. This is not even the worst. Yes, in some cases they deserve it(like how bad they lock down the iphone). AT&Ts supposed "3G" may not be as wide, but does anyone look at the fact that AT&T has gone on an upgrade path that requires new radios and all. UMTS is way superior to EVDO. However, Verizon's speed upgrades to EVDO do not require hardware upgrades at the sites and is backward compatible with older CDMA technology phones. Only upgrades that may be needed is backhaul, but I think VZW claimed to have enough already when they were upgrading. AT&Ts technology is not going to realize its full potential until the buildout is more complete. Some areas it's already fantastic. I can get about 3.3 mbit on speed tests 50 miles east of here(a well built-out 3G area). UMTS also allows simultaneous voice and data. Not to mention it has a future upgrade path that AT&T plans to use. Verizon will be going through some of this soon as they switch to LTE. That is, running 2 networks at the same time in order to build out new technology that requires a full hardware upgrade. We'll see if their LTE coverage starts any better vs the 3G AT&T has had in these earlier days of UMTS use in the states. Yes, it's a fair comparison because Verizon will then have to do what AT&T has to do-make a full hardware upgrade to the sites.

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
Unlocked phones work on their network. Thats good enough for me.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

Define "work"
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

said by w4ncr See Profile :

VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM.
Verizon costs more.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think.
Selenia

join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

said by iansltx See Profile :

??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think.
Were they not proposing an 80 MB/month limit at Verizon Wireless not too long ago for dumbphones? In this case, AT&T would win hands down as they nor Sprint have made such an idiotic proposal.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

To my knowledge Verizon didn't do that. They have 25MB and 75MB plans, but you can still get a "Connect" plan (I think it's connect, maybe it's select) with unlimited messaging and data.
Selenia

join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: better packages, faster speeds better customer service

said by iansltx See Profile :

To my knowledge Verizon didn't do that. They have 25MB and 75MB plans, but you can still get a "Connect" plan (I think it's connect, maybe it's select) with unlimited messaging and data.
Good to know.
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

said by iansltx See Profile :

??? As far as I can tell VZ and AT&T have very similar pricing structures. Verizon is actually better on non-smartphones with data and such I think.
When I was looking, they were a few bucks more than AT&T for the equivalent to what i'm getting now.

T-Mobile is a bit cheaper, and sprint a bit cheaper than T-Mobile.
fjr3020

join:2008-07-22
Miami, FL

Sprint has the better packages please compare before you comment and sprint has a good 3g coverage look »vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotco···ison.pdf

I you find better plans with verizon right now please post a link

Here are sprint plans »nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/o···AllPlans
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

AT&T's 3G is faster in uncongested areas; I've seen 2 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up with an aircard. However their network tends to be congested.

If we want to go by fastest 3G network, T-Mobile as of last night takes the cake. They're now universally using HSPA 7.2, so folks can get 5 Mbps download speeds as long as you're connected to a tower with enough backhaul. Then again, T-Mo's 3G coverage is rather pathetic at the moment.

If you want the best speed x coverage solution, Verizon wins at this point

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
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·RoadRunner Cable

said by w4ncr See Profile :

VERIZON HAS IT ALL--- AT&T does not have a clue as to be better than VERIZON IT WILL NEVER BE BETTER IN ANY FORM.
Verizon doesn't have it all. They don't even have coverage at my house, let alone the iPhone. They don't have the best pricing either.

Verizon is not my Jesus provider.
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Your funeral. Delivered.

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Coverage Map

Oddly enough, they've removed the direct link to their coverage maps that used to be on the front page of the website. You now have to go to Explore - Why AT&T? - Network Coverage - View Your Area. The default map that pops up in their EDGE map which covers most of the US.

If you want to view 3G coverage, you have to click a tiny little link in the bottom right of that page that says, View 3G/Mobile Broadband coverage (in select areas), choose your city, and pan back out to get a map of the US.

See 14 replies to this post

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·SureWest Internet
·FrontierNet Intern..

Oddly enough

There is a Verizon store adjacent to an Att store on Howe Ave. here in Sactown, and Verizon's store is always the busier of the two. By the by, the 3g coverage map is in the window of Verizon's store.
--
The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!

RationalBike

@cox.net

Re: Oddly enough

There is an AT&T store near the Verizon store where I live as well. The Verizon store usually is much busier. That's why I like going to the AT&T store - I won't have to wait a half hour in line just to see a rep. I walk in and get service right away AT&T.

phonesbite

@cox.net

Most of the ppl I saw were in the store complaining about their phones.

With the recent end of service between qwest and sprint verizon stores may have seemed more active during October.

I wonder if they are busier because their phones are cheaply made. stripped down options, from the choice of phones Verizon's bite!

I see why they offer the new every two.

looking at durable phones from verizon is a joke. the do not compare to moto i580 or sanyo scp7050 but these are for sprint Nextel. AT&T has some too.

WiseOldNerd
De gustibus non est disputandum
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Qwest.net
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A Plague on Both Houses

Using lawyers as a marketing tool is stupid, and as a company called Lotus found out many years ago does not beat out quality products and services. Since ALL cellular companies are spawn of the devil, it would be nice if we just had one nice socialism based phone company for the whole country . Then we could have just one target to aim at and we could all watch Glen Beck be spit roasted in the village square.
--
My perception is REALITY

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Interesting....

Don't think going vzw will uncork data bottlenecks, every network has them, they are usually random and vary in severity, large coverage or not.

- A
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LETS GO METS!
Forums » AT&T's Memo To Employees About Verizon Suit


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