 
StumpMan
Premium
join:2001-07-26
Clinton, NC | Clue Truck coming down the road... Information age, meet AT&T.. AT&T, meet the information age.
Connection speeds have been getting faster and faster for a long time now. More cars on the road? Add more lanes. | |
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dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... LOL... | |
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| backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | a while ago i heard a stroy on the radio about how the highway system is bound to fail because everytime they add roads they are filled by traffic(in metropolitain areas). So in effect, i don't think that there is an easy solution to this problem. | |
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| Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH | Remember, ATT laughed at the internet when it was first developed by DARPA. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| said by StumpMan  :Information age, meet AT&T.. AT&T, meet the information age. Connection speeds have been getting faster and faster for a long time now. More cars on the road? Add more lanes. And as some posters here are always claiming, lighting up dark fiber doesn't cost anything. So AT&T is just being evil for not doing that.
But it does cost something to light up more bandwidth, and AT&T will just have to raise their rates to all the providers that use their backbone. And those providers will have to either raise rates or throttle bandwidth use by blocking all the illegal P2P copyright infringers sucking up bandwidth.
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... Honestly, I'm not sure they'd have to raise rates. More people using the networks means more subscribers, means more profit. Given that most customers aren't the oft-quoted 5% "hogging it all", they are effectively pure profit which should be able to offset any such "light up" cost would incur.
If not, then obviously they'll have to raise rates, however. But, that's business as usual.
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"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. | |
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| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... But the article was not talking about new subscribers, it was talking about new data types like video and multimedia that eat up a tremendous amount resources not used before.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... True, but the new subs are, nonetheless, still coming in.
Either way, the use is due to progress (for all), rather than a specific scapegoatted minority. Cost of business and all that.
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"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. | |
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| | | | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs: | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... Was not AT&T the one that said if you want to serve his customers, you will have to pay extra? Or was that another telco?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
1 edit | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... said by RayW :Was not AT&T the one that said if you want to serve his customers, you will have to pay extra? Or was that another telco? So AT&T wants to be paid for the following:
1) The DSL users who pay AT&T.
2) The Data Center or Content Provider who buys OC-VeryFast from AT&T.
3) The Content Provider who pays AT&T for prioritization to the DSL customer.
4) The people AT&T has peering agreements with because more data is moving across their network.
Wow. I wish mine were that big. | |
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join:2005-09-21
Bethel Park, PA | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... No you don't. If you had ATT's, you couldn't walk!  | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Matt :So AT&T wants to be paid for the following: 1) The DSL users who pay AT&T. 2) The Data Center or Content Provider who buys OC-VeryFast from AT&T. 3) The Content Provider who pays AT&T for prioritization to the DSL customer. 4) The people AT&T has peering agreements with because more data is moving across their network. I think you could just summarize it like this:
So AT&T wants to be paid by the following:
1) Every single human being on earth
.... unless they are AT&T Management.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| Agreed, altough I don't think p2p is sucking up the bandwidth. On-line gaming is a huge bandwidth hog. I am not saying throttle that (I play BF2, DoD: source, Counterstrike Source and Enemy Territory all the time). But I find it hard to believe p2p is behind that. I download TV shows I miss via bit-torrent and haven't had issues. My wife trying to surf the internet while I blast another n00b into oblivion on BF2 is a different story....
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Liberalism is a religion, behind which liberals hide and expect that their political correctness gives them immunity from criticism. | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... said by scrummie02 :Agreed, altough I don't think p2p is sucking up the bandwidth. On-line gaming is a huge bandwidth hog. And take away all the Pr0n and binary newsgroups, and bandwidth usage will also drop. Newsgroups were never originally designed for binary downloads. Someone decided to take a good thing and bastardize it for their purposes.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL
| Gaming more than likely doesn't account for as much as P@P traffic. You should see how much you suck down during an average gaming session for an example.
Most games are still built to be run on slower 'net connections, so that means using as little traffic as possible (in the neighborhood of a 256 line, tops).
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"You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... said by tsu9 :Gaming more than likely doesn't account for as much as P@P traffic. Really? You know how many gamers are on line right? Take Guild Wars alone... there was a patch the other day that was 350mb. Times that by the thousands and thousands of people that had to download the patch.
When you speak of gamers, there's more to it than just playing the game itself. To play the actual game, no, not alot of BW is used. Hell, a 56k modem is fine for alot of typical play... patches!! lots of data travels as people log in and have to update.
Basically, what I am getting at is don't forget that.
But... people talk lie p2p is a bad thing. NOT ALL of the p2p is bad traffic. Illegal file trading? Sure.. but if you want to be picky and technical about it, email is p2p traffic as well... people email files all the time.. so it goes through an SMTP and POP server to do it.. take a 5mb file, it's actually 10mb by the time it's transferred.
They really need to stop 'controlling' what's used on the internet. It's going to get used period! That's why people bought "internet ACCESS".... they need to increase capacity.. and, at the same time, they need to increase the price.
Oddly enough, maybe they need to put the price of DSL back to where it should be, stop discounting the hell out of it to $12 and $19 and stop bitching that they need more money.
What phone has done is undercut the price of DSL to take customers away from cable and in order to maintain their bidget they want to go after the providers. Pretty cool if you ask me. Undercut cable modem costs, gain customers, charge the 3rd party providers more and price them out of the business so they can push their OWN crap on to those $14 DSL customers they got. Pretty AOL of them if you ask me!
Raise the price of DSL back to where it should/needs to be and upgrade the damn networks already.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... I have to disagree.
Patches don't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. They're the bursty and infrequent traffic ISPs love. Online gaming is not a huge bandwidth hog at all. If all that was going on was gaming and YouTube and game demos, we wouldn't be hearing anything of it.
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Think outside the fox...Seamonkey | |
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| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... Disagree if you want.. that's your choice. But, you have the right to be incorrect as well.
World of Warcraft alone had about 5 million users. Take these large patches x 5mil and what's the bandwidth? Utube videos can be only 10mg per video max and then they are compressed when updoaded.
Besides, you are trying to turn this into a comparative scale issue and that's the wrong path - period. This isn't a competition over who is using the most, rank them, then attack. The post was bout 'gaming doesn't take alot of bandwidth' which is plain flat wrong. It uses it fair chunk of bandwidth. You can't look at only the smaller amounts of data used to play the game.. you look at EVERYTHING that makes up the game which includes the patches which can be very large. Again, the one that just came down the other day here was 300mb.. times 5 computers, that's alot for just this one home, for this one game. This house is playing 5 game titles too.
I could care less what other apps are using.. in the end, the entire useage adds up to what the total contribution to the internet load is.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... I doubt there are nearly as many gamers as P2P users.
Sure, gaming patches probably use a lot of bandwidth, but nowhere NEAR the exponential amount that P2P does. Gaming patches are all downstream which modern broadband connections are supposedly 'designed' for. WoW is now using bittorrent to distribute their patches, so they are the exception, but Steam and such don't, everything comes down one fat pipe from the content provider. | |
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Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| said by scrummie02 :Agreed, altough I don't think p2p is sucking up the bandwidth. On-line gaming is a huge bandwidth hog. Hahaha, you made me spit coke on my keyboard.
WRONG. Online games take up VERY LITTLE bandwidth. We're talking the most bandwidth intensive games run 1/10th of a mbit on average. (FPS type, ie BF2)
Common misconception. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Re: Clue Truck coming down the road... WoW uses about .5KB/sec, or ~4Kbps in and out. | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Jerm :said by scrummie02 :Agreed, altough I don't think p2p is sucking up the bandwidth. On-line gaming is a huge bandwidth hog. Hahaha, you made me spit coke on my keyboard.WRONG. Online games take up VERY LITTLE bandwidth. We're talking the most bandwidth intensive games run 1/10th of a mbit on average. (FPS type, ie BF2) Common misconception. See my post above and remember that the next time a million users are downlaoding the 100+ mb patches, ok?
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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techjoe
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Schererville, IN
| As posted somewhere else in this thread, gaming uses hardly any bandwidth compared to p2p or other usage. CS:S uses up to 20kbyte a second inbound to clients and 5kbyte out max with 32-ish players. That's udp too, so less overhead (most games).
In-game voip is starting to edge gaming bandwidth upwards as the masses start streaming audio back and forth, but it's rarely a high quality codec and is usually well optimized to make that bandwidth requirement as low as possible.
Yeah, patches are huge. Steam and other content delivery methods are gaining ... well, Steam I guess you could say, and that's adding a bit to it, but such issues could be easily solved by a local caching server or the ISP actually *gasp* offering a mirror within their network for common huge downloads!! Speakeasy I think did this for some time, might still...They got into the server rental market and such. That's a non-issue though because as mentioned, any ISP could plug up that bandwidth leak very easily and possibly even increase the users' satisfaction with greater speeds or instant start high-speed downloads for subscribers.
In closing, I think you're off your rocker with the assumption that on-line gaming is a bandwidth hog compared to p2p traffic. 
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www.clanc.cc | |
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| MASantangelo
Premium
join:2004-07-19
Pittstown, NJ
| I agree with the analogy but a bad thought comes from it...
When the government decides to add more roads, how do they fund it? A boost in revenue through taxes, making us pay for them.
AT&T will try the same thing as every corporation will do - charge more to increase profit, use that profit to build, then maintain the higher charges and call it maintenance fees while pocketing the already good profits.
Sweet for them.
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Don't Let Them Take Your Rights! | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | ADD MORE TUBES!!! ROFLMAO! Couldn't resist after seeing John Stewart make them look like total morons.
"Information age, meet AT&T.. AT&T, meet the information age." Now, that was funny!!! | |
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| huziwhatsis
join:2004-03-11
Norwood, PA | SBC should have gutted New Jersey in the buyout. They sure didn't have capacity problems predicting and integrating most of the country's LECs. | |
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King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Inman, SC | begin "No free ride" banter How long before Ed Whitacre gets pissed about this and wants Google to pay for a new one?
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Forget 'em, Support the Indies.
Independent Music Online | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: begin "No free ride" banter said by King P :How long before Ed Whitacre gets pissed about this and wants Google to pay for a new one? Google should help AT&T through this troubling time by throttling connection speeds from AT&T customers who are accessing Google's website. 
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| It's funny how they pick on google.
The majority of Google's use is search. Their search engine is one of the less bandwidth heavy websites. Yahoo, MSN, and all the other "portal" websites push ads and other crap to the user when you use their sites.
Google isn't the problem. It's penis envy, really. Google has a small scale operation making big money and telco is pissed. They want a piece of the actions.
Google's apps are very thing - minus the videos which is a waste anyway. This picking on google, the search engine, is, as one users here says, "is a BS"... If google didn't exist today, many people would be lost. Hell, google isn't a noun anymore,.. it's a verb.
I'd hate to see google's traffic report if they actually built a site like yahoo and msn. really, the amount of traffic transgered to each user on a search is FAR LESS than what get's transferred when the end user finally reaches the site they were searching for.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR | moore's law Is this not a variation of moore's law just kinda showing exponential growth over time. | |
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nissan720
join:2006-02-21
Stillwater, OK | Maybe it could be all of those new customers they added I have been hearing about all the growth AT&T is having in their customer base.
What would you expect to happen when you have large amounts of growth in a short amount of time. | |
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bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | In actuality.... a nice problem to have. This means that they have more customers that are using more BW (DUH!)-which means more $ generated for the corporation- they just need to put this latest revenue into the upgrades to receive MORE $- NOT in the CEO's pocket. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: In actuality.... said by bamabrad :This means that they have more customers that are using more BW (DUH Or it could mean the same number of customers are using higher bandwidth applications.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: In actuality.... Quick, charge the software companies for higher bandwidth consumption by proxy! | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
| OMG! said by AT&T Corporate A$$ Hat :
People are using their connections! Whatever shall we do? Increase prices? Charge content providers? OMFG!?!? If people actually make use of what we sell them, we wont meet our 99.9999% profit goal!!!!
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | ok AT&T is your bandwidth filling up because of the NSA CRAP? | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: ok said by hayabusa3303 :AT&T is your bandwidth filling up because of the NSA CRAP? My understanding of the NSA data mining is that they were sniffing existing traffic on the line, not sending extra packets out.
When AT&T is doing bad (illegal spying) call them out.
When they are doing good (upgrading their network to support increased traffic) why bring up something totally unrelated?
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| AT&T says " All of a sudden, people had a new set of needs. We need to get accustomed to that situation."
Ummm..yea...Duh..kinda like the whole ftth thing that you haven't yet jumped on, eh AT&T?
Uverse just ain't gonna cut it. You need to be where Verizon is in order to compete in the future.
People need to realize that Uverse is supposedly their NEXT generation product. Those arguing that it's enough simply are not considering how explosive this whole video/hdtv issue is, how bandwidth intensive it is, and how that needs to be combined with the explosion in HSI speeds that people are now demanding.
Uverse is in ONE community, San Antonio. One.
How many years before they could get everywhere they need to be with that?
Can you imagine where things WILL be when they finally get finished in terms of the competition?
Uverse will be like a p3 500mhz machine in a field of 4000+ Athlons.
A company should not simply start down a road to nowhere at this stage of the game when that technology even TODAY is showing signs of being outdated.
They are NOT doing themselves, their shareholders..or we, their customers, any favors in doing so.
Verizon took some heat for their decision. Shareholders screamed and hollered. But today, their stock is recovering nicely as investors see they made the right decision with their fios rollout.
»finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VZ&t=1y···m&q=l&c=
AT&T..you need to do the same.
Or, it just might be the end of you if you don't.
Comcast is coming...their 99.00 triple play..which essentially gives FREE telephone service..is going to eat you alive.
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: PR justification for upcoming DSL price increases/neutrality agreed, there should be no suprise about 1tbps usage at any time. there really isnt any practical network faster then 3 tbps in existance to begin with, why should at&t worry.
it does sound fishy. | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL | 100gb WTF try a 800-1000 | |
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webnetwiz
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Premium
join:2004-09-22
Van Nuys, CA | Re: 100gb WTF Do you have any idea how much a CRS-1 system costs? Someone's gotta approve that spending, and that's gonna hurt the bottom line. | |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | Re: 100gb WTF So does losing money from not being able to handle network demands. :P | |
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webnetwiz
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Premium
join:2004-09-22
Van Nuys, CA | Re: 100gb WTF AT&T never mentiones that they're not able to handle traffic. They did not anticipate the demand that they're seeing, but there's still plenty of room there. If they were not able to meet the demand, we'd all feel it by now. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| troll fanboy I will use the news story that AT&T is upgrading it's network, and that enough customers are joining AT&T to fill in the gap to try and make it sound like AT&T doesn't know what it's doing. "We increased our supply but customer's signed up to use that supply faster than we thought."
"You guys need a clue-by-four." | |
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JohnSJ
join:2004-08-14
Lafayette, LA
| The Get a Clue Train... Folks, you're missing the crucial point. It's not about you--it's about them.
You're buying the Kool-Aide the Teleco's are selling. It's not about gaming or P2P or downloading little 320x240 videos on YouTube or any other activity that mere users come up with.
What it is really about is that AT&T plans to offer IPTV in the very near future and this "internet stuff" is still something they don't understand and don't adequately plan for--even after all these years.
They do understand that providiing multiple HDTV streams to even 20% of the households in a region is going to choke their network bandwidth under ANY scenario. And they want you to blame the kid down the street when the net begins to stutter.
They want to reserve the pipe for high-margin cable services. That they have to use IP to provide it is "unfortunate" from their point of view. It means they have to contend with all these "unsanctioned" uses (by which they mean all cheapo "commodity" uses that regular people want to use their bandwidth for).
All that might clog up "their" pipes and force them, should they still want to overcharge us for cable, to go to some unanticipated expense to offer you the high-margin they are so eager to get in place.
Don't buy the Kool-aide. It's all about THEIR anticipated high usage. And their poor planning. It IS NOT the fault of their customers. | |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | Re: The Get a Clue Train... well said
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no sig | |
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Old_Grouch
Don't just sit there silly DO something
Premium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| At an undisclosed location, the following was heard in an exchange during a secret SBCatt Board meeting on internet backbonz capacity discussions:
Ed Whynottaker: Mr. Gore, when you told us we could use that internet thinggy to make more money 'n all we'd have to do is sell folks new modems you never told us we'd have to keep growing the network for them.
Al Gore: Now now Eddie. Let me explain what is at work here - - first though, could someone turn the air conditioning a bit cooler? You know we haven't yet licked that global warming thing. Now, Eddie - - dude, you have got to buy more pipes. Build it and they will come.
Ed Whynottaker: But Al, dang-it, we want to do telly over them pipes. People are just going to have to share. You know, like dial tone: we can't give dial tone to everyone all at the same dang time dangit...they share!
Al Gore: Eddie - - build big! It's like I told the president about that desk in the oval office. You have to have plenty of room 'cause you never know what will be at yer feet. A-yuk, A-yuk. Can't we get that air conditioner adjusted yet?
And they still make money.
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~Team Discovery~ It's what to do with your PC when you aren't doing anything with your PC. | |
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overhill
Judd
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Miami, FL
| Seems Fairly Routine to Me I don't claim to be fully informed on the details of their backbone network, but the need for 100GB/s doesn't sound like something they should be surprised about. My university alone pulls nearly 200MB/s and I'd guess the surrounding "small" city would require close to 1GB/s....hard for me to imagine the collective use in a city like New York or Chicago that dwarfs what we see in Kansas.
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Judd Patterson Photography
View My Trial SmugMug Gallery | |
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| bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON | Re: Seems Fairly Routine to Me In canada they take care of everything will caps and traffic shaping and constantly ever increasing prices. The internet is dying in canada. Nothing has been updated or upgraded in ten years. | |
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Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
| Confusing quote:
To show how fast the new core, deployed only in the last year, is filling up, Zelingher noted that a 40-Gbit/s DWDM system in one point of presence, capable of carrying 80 wavelengths at full capacity, is already 25 percent full.
Confusing. Do they mean a single bit of fibre is handling traffic running at 800Gbit/s, or that a single MUX is running at 800Gbit/s? (40Gbps x 20 wavelengths).
Actually I'd love to see a bit of DWDM kit that can tell you how much data is going through it. Considering that at transmission level each wavelength runs at a constant rate and any unused timeslots are padded out I sense BS.
The DWDM kit would have absolutely no way of knowing if the equipment connected to it were sending it actual data or just scrambled padding.
With the recent acquisitions being consolidated onto one network it's not that surprising that upgrades would be needed, however if AT+T are having to upgrade so much faster than other suppliers are requiring it points to other deficiencies within their network, not enough diversity, not enough fibre routes available and not enough segmentation.
We'll see though, they may just be posturing because they want to extract more cash from more people  | |
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AT&T's New Backbone Quickly Filling Up
PR justification for upcoming DSL price increases/neutrality