 Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
| Looks like Looks like they'll be using the Florida East Coast Railway right of way to connect to Miami, and perhaps CSX right of way across northern Florida.
Smart move.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM | |
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 |  ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Grafton, WV | Re: Looks like said by BillRoland:Looks like they'll be using the Florida East Coast Railway right of way to connect to Miami, and perhaps CSX right of way across northern Florida. Smart move. Yeah, but how can it be a ring if there is only one path between Miami and Atlanta??  | |
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| | | | Re: Looks like One path, multiple fibers. One to transmit, one to receive, depending on the technology and techniques employed. | |
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| | | | | Re: Looks like said by Euphrates:One path, multiple fibers. One to transmit, one to receive, depending on the technology and techniques employed. Thats how most fiber gear works, but that still doesnt make it a ring. A ring would be diverse paths so if one whole fiber cable was cut in one direction, the ring would go into "protect" mode and go the other direction. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Looks like I would agree with this. The Miami leg is not really a ring. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Looks like said by hamburglar_:I would agree with this. The Miami leg is not really a ring. Now maybe they are going down on side of the tracks and up the other side? Seems silly to not make it a ring somehow. Service via the fiber to the whole city could be out with a single cut anywhere in the leg without it. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Looks like A bad enough derailment would take out your ring. In some cases it may be worth the savings to risk some downtime. | |
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 ·Frontier Communi..
| Re: Looks like Agreed, I have seen train derailments dig down 8' before, that would take out almost any buried fiber. Also, true diversity for something like this, would require the fiber paths to be much further apart than a few dozen feet. Also, a crew boring across some tracks that hit the cable on one side, could just as easily hit another cable buried on the other. | |
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| | | | | | | | Reviews:
 ·Verizon Wireless..
| Re: Looks like Those things on the railroad right-of-way is quite common anyway. I work in the signals department for CSX and you cant put in a new crossing on any line without fiber or in some instances gas lines running along the tracks. Another run of fiber on most rail lines wont make a bit of difference, after all the railroad does make money off the leases in the process. | |
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| | | WhatNowPremium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC | It is still a ring but the terms are diverse if one cable gets cut you still have service or non-diverse where both sides of the ring are in the same cable. If that cable gets cut you lose both side of the ring. | |
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|  RR ConductorHappy 40th AmtrakPremium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1
1 edit | said by BillRoland:Looks like they'll be using the Florida East Coast Railway right of way to connect to Miami, and perhaps CSX right of way across northern Florida. Smart move. It'll be Burlington Northern Santa Fe and Union Pacific here in the west. The northern route looks like BNSF's Hi-Line between Seattle and Chicago, the west coast route looks to be UP's LA to Seattle route, and the southern route looks to be a combo of BNSF and UP lines between Texas and California.
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You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. | |
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1 edit | Humm There is so much dark fiber around the usa its not funny and really nothing new.
NEXT. | |
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|  antwanpBeyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite RadioPremium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Humm Exactly! What about all the dark fibre that's NOT owned by Verizon or AT&T that's been dug? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for choices and more competition, but I don't see too many advantages for this company...
HOWEVER, I also wonder how much dark fibre is in rural areas, such as the areas this new ring is proposing. This could be essential to get cheaper 3G and better rural ISPs up and running...
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Follow me on Twitter: »www.twitter.com/antwanp | |
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| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: Humm As for how much dark fiber is in some of those rural areas, I'll bet the answer is a big fat zero... | |
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| | | | The advantage looks like they are willing to break out every 60 miles or so at reasonable rates. Chattanooga has an ungodly amount of fiber that passes with in 1 mile of of two places we are coloed. The problem is getting anyone to hand you anything. Most of the big guys are only interested in handing you a feed from 56M in Atlanta.
I will be talking to these guys very soon as their route through town is pretty close to us. | |
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|  TSWYOPremium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY | What I find interesting is the city I am from in Ohio installed fiber in the mid 1990's. The entire city, passing every home and business. To this day it is still dark. | |
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| | | | | Re: Humm Bet he's talking about Cleveland. Also CURSE YOU LEBRON! Please stay...*sniffle*. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Humm yah that fiber in Cleveland going to every neighborhood is owned by TWC, ATT and WOW cable. And is very much used.
I don't know any areas in cleveland that have dark fiber just laying on the poles and not being used that by-passes everyone.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
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| | | | | TSWYOPremium
join:2003-05-03
Cheyenne, WY Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Bresnan Online
1 edit | Re: Humm I don't know who owns it now, but it was a private company that installed it in Euclid, Oh. I used to work for a government agency that does use a portion of it for the 15-ish or so buildings they have. As of 2007 no other entity was using it and from my contacts now they haven't heard much otherwise. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Humm i'm wondering if it wasn't One Community that put the fiber in. Nothing else comes up in that area except their name.
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www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by TSWYO:What I find interesting is the city I am from in Ohio installed fiber in the mid 1990's. The entire city, passing every home and business. To this day it is still dark. In a city near NYC, every traffic light in the city has fiber going to it..... | |
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|  nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5
·Charter
 ·voip.ms
| said by hayabusa3303:There is so much dark fiber around the usa its not funny and really nothing new. NEXT. I couldn't have said it any better. We don't need any more IXC or long haul infrastructure. There's loads of it unused right now.
Sounds like a big old waste of money to me. I'll bet it doesn't get off the ground.
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Looks like Reverend Wright got his wish - God Damn America.
Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader 2010
Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader 2010 | |
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 perki
join:2008-12-01
Santa Maria, CA | What does this mean? why is this new? | |
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|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: What does this mean? said by perki:why is this new? It isn't new. All they are doing is laying down another fiber backbone in the US because they claim their is a shortage of dark fiber in the US. That is a declaration that could be disputed.
Fiber has been laid along railroad right of way for decades. Old Conrail(split up & bought by NS & CSX in 1998) tracks are going to be the backbone in the phase 1 part of this company's build-out.
I met with Qwest & NS execs back in late 1990's and did deals to lay fiber on Conrail right of way between NY & Chicago and NY & Atlanta.
In fact the guy that Allied Fiber is dealing with at NS is still the same person I dealt with 15 yrs ago - George Eichelberger. Here is a video of him made this year explaining how NS does these fiber deals with many companies.
»dp-x.com/dpx_dcd/dpx.php?dpxuser···83&dev=1
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Chicago-Seattle That run along the northern border of the Central-west US will take a lot of pressure off that area and should see prices drop down to a range more in line with the rest of the country. That part of the project would get my vote for some stimulus funds. | |
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| markofmayhemI can haz competition?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:4 | Re: Chicago-Seattle Dark fiber doesn't lower prices...
Let them build it, sell it off to AT&T and Verizon, then see if you want stimulus funds involved. Hopefully someone else will buy this and not let it stay dark. | |
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| | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Chicago-Seattle Along that stretch there is not much dark fiber left. Most of it is lit up. Which is why prices are so much higher along that stretch. | |
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| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Dark fiber *does* lower prices.
If you're AboveNet or someone similar and can buy dark, then light it up with a few 10G waves for equipment costs (vs. actually having to build the fiber) there's now another player in the area, increasing competition and lowering cost per bit. Since Allied will be laying high-count fibers this will be compounded...would be interesting if providers like Hurricane Electric and PacketExchange picked up on this and started delivering their high bandwidth services to areas that traditionally haven't had said service. | |
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| |  Simba7
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | I hope so.
Bresnan just finished their 10GbE ring between Seattle, Billings, and Denver. If this would help for a redundant backbone, it'd help a large area of Montana. | |
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| mdrift
join:2003-08-15
Spokane, WA | said by Lazlow:That run along the northern border of the Central-west US will take a lot of pressure off that area and should see prices drop down to a range more in line with the rest of the country. That part of the project would get my vote for some stimulus funds. »www.360networks.com has tons of lit fiber in the Pacific Northwest. | |
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| | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Re: Chicago-Seattle If you will note I said "Central-west". If you look at your own link you would see that it does not cover SD,KS, or OK at all, nor most of NB(have to zoom in before it will show you).
Edit: Most of Texas is not covered either (again you have to zoom in before it will show you) | |
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| | | Re: No work around here.. With the exception of some track in the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak doesn't own any right of way or track. The map you linked shows the routes they serve, most of which is over track from other railway companies. | |
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| | | Haven't heard of any fiber build along Amtrak lines near where I live and I live 12 miles from Centrailia would be nice to see it though. | |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | $100 per MB? That's outrageous if that's not a typo. | |
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| | | Re: $100 per MB? Actually, it IS a typo. The correct number is $100 per megaBIT, which is even higher. | |
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| | | | Re: $100 per MB? I think they mean $100 per month per megabit of bandwidth.
$100 per actual used megabyte would not be economically viable. | |
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| | Ridiculous Redundancy What's ironic about this company's proposed fiber builds is that fiber exists along every one of the rights of way where it is building. However, the owners won't sell the dark fiber; they either insist upon selling services only (which drives up the price of bandwidth) or they're intentionally keeping it off the market to try to make it more valuable.
The danger is that if they release just a bit of their existing capacity, they can put any newcomer out of business by preventing it from realizing a return on its investment. They can then buy the newcomer's fiber up for pennies on the dollar, take IT off the market, and drive prices back up. Lather, rinse, repeat. | |
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| | | Re: Ridiculous Redundancy In theory we have antitrust laws that outlaw exactly this sort of thing.
In practice those laws have been moribund almost since Reagan took office; the AT&T breakup occurred only because most of the litigation had occurred throughout the 1970s. Reagan demurred on stopping the suit himself, and a conflict of interest in the justice dept kept the attorney general from doing the same.
In my opinion, a carefully measured application of the antitrust laws could do telecommunications in the US a great deal of good, and without the need for complex network neutrality rules. | |
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| | | That's a good point and I think you are largely correct.
It poses a social problem though. If true and there is such pent up demand and it plays out that way then it is a pretty good indication that the market isn't efficiently allocating and that control of this fiber infrastructure is too heavily concentrated for market competition to act as an effective control. | |
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| | still waiting.. I'm still waiting on basic DSL, or cable or even a tin can with a string attached to it where I live in Southern Illinois, I can't even get a T-1 line which I tried to get recently from Telnes and AT&T owns the poles in our area AT&T wanted to charge me 15k to run repeaters and the loop to my house from a town that was 5 miles away which they dont even have anything but dial-up , same goes for our little town of Dix which I live outside about 4 miles from in the country. While every other town in the area has DSL, Cable, T-1 service I can't get $#%@. When will this madness end? All I want to do is play my MMO's online  | |
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| | looks like a pink floyd wall and you have to wonder now
what the plan here is?
extra for nuclear war? to maintain communications? | |
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 Dimetre
join:2008-02-16
Thief River Falls, MN | Nothing new. Big pipe aka Shaw cable does this now putting fiber using almost all of Canadian Pacific's right of way. network map of shaw:»bit.ly/bRJvDI CP's map:»bit.ly/9nC0Vq | |
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 japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·RoadRunner Cable
| hrmm [Stimulus funding] + [rural wireless set to explode backhaul demand (where presently there's none)] + [co-location partnerships] + [likelihood of back-to-rail human transport & built environments] = All makes sense to me.
The argument of DF buildouts creating higher prices due to "monopoly by buyouts" doesn't wash. Ten years ago VC dumped massive dollars onto fiber construction. Partly it was inexperienced forecasting, partly it was the times. VC flew to everything techie followed by pennies-on-dollar consolation across the entire sector. DF has long value cycling which meant higher discounts. I doubt we'll see that dynamic repeated anytime soon. | |
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Reikon
join:2004-02-06
Daly City, CA | Cheaper for Sprint? Wait, Sprint? They're already a tier 1 backbone provider. Why would they need this? | |
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| | | Re: Cheaper for Sprint? said by Reikon:Wait, Sprint? They're already a tier 1 backbone provider. Why would they need this? What the hell does whether or not Sprint pays for transit have to do with anything? | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Cheaper for Sprint? It was in the write up:
"It’s also a big deal for cellular carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile, as it will give them access to less expensive backhaul without having to pay the likes of AT&T or Verizon...."
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Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
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| | | | | Re: Cheaper for Sprint? Sprint has a good share of the cable company fiber in use. | |
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| | | | WhatNowPremium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC | Re: Cheaper for Sprint? Sprint got their start doing the same thing on the East Coast using the railroad right aways. They maybe placing their fiber right next to Sprint. Hope they don't cut up other cables as bad as Sprint did when they placed their first backbone. | |
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| | Fiber Network This is a little to late for the system going into the US. Broadband is going into rural America at a very fast rate and this venture will go down the tubes completely. They should of done a couple of years ago and the company that is putting in the broadband has interconnect with all the location so no location can go down Furthermore it is the biggest ISP in the US. The bottom line in a year they will go under as it would not be required as the electric coops are putting in broadband by fixed wireless.. | |
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| Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Re: Fiber Network Maybe broadband is going into rural areas at a fast rate where you are at, but in most of the areas I see(MO-ND) there has been essentially no movement(as a whole) in the last couple of years. Even if it were, those areas will still need backbone transit, which is what we are talking about here. | |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| first mile competition? well, if there is alot of rural dark fiber not being utilized, then a company who actually has "intent" to use the deployed infrastructure would have an advantage as that creates some competition to the dark unlit fiber which runs past many rural geographies, but never diverges into suburb & rural zones. the time has long past for this to happen. I don't agree with that "ring geography" theory.. aside from the northwest & southwest.. that ring should encircle (or criss-cross the entire geography west of the missippi). that's primarily where competition doesn't seem to rear it's ugly head. loads of qwest, comcast and at&t footprint to go around througout those states. | |
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|  JeepMattC'mon the UPremium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
kudos:2
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: first mile competition? »(topic move) New Fiber Deployment - Sunbury, PA
I'm now wondering if this is exactly what I posted about a month ago in my hometown....
(see story link)
It would fall right on that line through Central PA.
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!" | |
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| | building... build baby, build!
** 11k miles is nothing though.. verizon's mileage beat that in NY & NJ alone in the last mile easily over 5 years. it's gonna take alot more then this to get competition out to the masses. | |
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| | SC Looks like it's taking the outer ring of the US.. wtf happened when it got to the Carolinas? It's like, "Ef that.. make a detour" =[ | |
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| | good news for upper ohio valley?? Does this mean they will go through the upper ohio valley? Norfolk southern has a line that goes from pittsburgh south to parkersburg,wv if they follow that line I would get fiber. | |
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 linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·Cass Communicati..
·CenturyLink
| Hmmm? I live in rural Illinois 50 miles from nowhere. I've been rural for nearly 30 years in four states. I've had 28.8 modems, broadband actually slower than a dial up modem, WISP, Cox, AT&T, Suddenlink, Wireless ands exactly two very awesome ISPs that are actually transparent. am currently on a tiny homespun phone company that is aggressive as all get out when providing new services to customers. I've gone from cable to Internet to VOIP and now I'm moving to on-demand movies and HD. And I"m 2 blocks from a BNSF rail. Trains pass through her 4/5 times daily.
Yeah!!! We already have fiber. It was running really good until their mass 'bundle' campaign oversold the Internet/VOIP bundle and someone nicked the fiber last weekend.
I've lived in mountainous, heavily forested areas as well as cornfields, too. It's been an education. AT&T owns 98% of America's land lines; they did 50 years ago. Big TELCOs are a PIA. They don't like rural. I think it has more to do with their old worn equipment than it does the the distance between towns. They don't want to replace old equipment for 400 people when they can sell the land line off and move 50 miles to a town of 90,000. The only draw back in topography. It is lot easier to dig 20' deep in black loam to install fiber than it is in to dig 10' in Hardpan, clay and mountain to service one customer. Sooner or later these companies are going conclude i it really easier to bounce a microwave signal between 200' foot towers than it is to move a mountain. There are some parts of the united states where dialup and satellite are the only choices for Internet the foreseeable future.
TELCOs don't want to admit it and customers don't want to hear it. This is a fact of life. I asked my ISP how long before we get 25Mbsp as it is already being deployed. His response? "Not in your lifetime or mine." That's 40 years in real time.
Maybe dark fiber WILL make a difference in rural America. I hope so.
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Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside | |
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| | fiber build I would just like to know where are RFI, RFQ, RFP's at for this project. Has it gone up for bid for the engineering or construction? Is it a private job not up for public bid? | |
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No work around here..
