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Call me Crazy...But why not stream 1080p with this codec and bitrate?
I mean it would be much more beneficial to customers as a whole and it would give streaming a much better outcome in regards to quality? | |
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Re: Call me Crazy...Someone has to push 4K television sales this winter holiday season. 1080p is old and sold. | |
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Re: Call me Crazy...Google Fiber does 15M+ 1080p using MPEG4 and it looks better than OTA. If they (all of them) did 15M 1080p using h.265, it would look closer to top end Blueray. Would rather see that than 4K but yeah, can't sell 4K TVs w/out 4K content.
Hopefully Amazon/NF will offer streams larger than 15M for those of us on 300-Gbit. | |
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| | | karpodiemHail to The Victors Premium Member join:2008-05-20 Troy, MI |
karpodiem
Premium Member
2014-Aug-28 11:09 am
Re: Call me Crazy...x264 is still more efficient than h.265 - I've yet to see any other codec that matches x264 at the same bitrate. | |
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| | | | | karpodiemHail to The Victors Premium Member join:2008-05-20 Troy, MI |
karpodiem
Premium Member
2014-Aug-28 12:29 pm
Re: Call me Crazy...tweaking h.264 values with x264 still yields a better result (w/Level 4.1 profile - long story short, just requires more processor power)
Dark Shikari is a lead x264 developer and works for Gaikai; he posted a pretty in-depth explanation technical explanation but unfortunately I can't find it right now. | |
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| | | | | | kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY |
kamm
Member
2014-Sep-17 11:34 am
Re: Call me Crazy...said by karpodiem:tweaking h.264 values with x264 still yields a better result (w/Level 4.1 profile - long story short, just requires more processor power) That's hilarious - it's like saying "hey, this car is faster, it's just simply cost 5x more"... FYI any comparison only makes sense if you equalize ALL factors eg processing power... ...or perhaps you also think MPEG2 still yields a better value, it's just it requires 100Mbit/s codec? | |
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| | | | | | | karpodiemHail to The Victors Premium Member join:2008-05-20 Troy, MI |
karpodiem
Premium Member
2014-Sep-17 11:39 am
Re: Call me Crazy...said by kamm: FYI any comparison only makes sense if you equalize ALL factors eg processing power... read the thread I posted in your other response. | |
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| | | | | karpodiemHail to The Victors Premium Member join:2008-05-20 Troy, MI |
karpodiem
Premium Member
2014-Sep-17 11:38 am
Re: Call me Crazy... | |
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to existenz
Do you really want to start another fight between content providers and ISPs? Imagine 30 Mbps for each streaming movie. AT&T will declare that their pipes are going to crack from the the increased pressure of delivering such streams. That can be prevented by Amazon and NetFlix each delivering a 100 car railroad train of gold bars to AT&T each week, according to AT&T. | |
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Re: Call me Crazy...CDN. At least Google Fiber could handle it, and they offer free CDN for video providers. | |
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| | | | TechyDad Premium Member join:2001-07-13 USA |
to davidhoffman
That's what caps (or "data thresholds" in Comcast-speak) are for. To limit what the consumers can do. If each streaming movie were 30Mbps, customers on Comcast would only be able to watch 80 seconds of a movie every month. Of course, Comcast's video offerings wouldn't count towards the caps so you could just pay Comcast and watch as much as you like. | |
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math
Anon
2014-Aug-28 4:02 pm
Re: Call me Crazy...80 seconds in a month? That's 300MB for a 30mbps bitrate. Let's do that math again. Unless you're saying an ISP has a cap that low. | |
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Re: Call me Crazy...80,000 seconds maybe? | |
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| | | | | | | TechyDad Premium Member join:2001-07-13 USA |
TechyDad
Premium Member
2014-Aug-28 9:33 pm
Re: Call me Crazy...Yup. I forgot to multiply 300 by 1,000 to turn 300GB into 300,000MB. | |
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to math
Oops, you're right. I thought that sounded wrong. That would be 22.2 hours a month or under 45 minutes a day. | |
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Re: Call me Crazy...The 45 minutes per day is proof that Cox will need to at least increase the cap by a factor of 8, thus giving 6 hours per day. Remember, these 4K movies will be director ultimate versions. Think Titanic with all the deleted scenes and the post production director and main actors commentary. Yep, 6 hours. Since we are talking about hard core movie fans, you can be assured they will be doing this every night of the month. So, Cox please increase the cap for Premier to 1800 GB per month so that Cox subscribers can enjoy the full glory of 4K movies. Please increase all other caps by the same factor of 8, so that the other subscribers can enjoy their meager ration of 4K also. | |
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to buzz_4_20
It's the same as SD digital cable. It looks like crap compared to a DVD. The cableco's (and now streaming services) seem to want to push the next thing, rather than offer a high quality version of the current thing.
I'm with you. I think 4k is overkill. Most people don't have and don't want to have TV's big enough to benefit from 4k. I'd rather see streaming/cable adopt high quality 1080p feeds. | |
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v6movement
Anon
2014-Aug-28 10:36 pm
Re: Call me Crazy...said by zod5000:It's the same as SD digital cable. It looks like crap compared to a DVD. The cableco's (and now streaming services) seem to want to push the next thing, rather than offer a high quality version of the current thing. [/bquote
That is not true. Way to exaggerate. said by zod5000:I'm with you. I think 4k is overkill. Most people don't have and don't want to have TV's big enough to benefit from 4k. I'd rather see streaming/cable adopt high quality 1080p feeds. Except it isn't overkill. 8K is overkill for consumers, 4K is not. With caps it doesn't matter whether streaming 720p, 2K (1080p), or 4K.. users are screwed. This cap nonsense needs to be resolved for this to really matter. | |
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15.6Mbps?Meanwhile, most of us on aging copper are struggling to maintain 5Mbps. | |
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Re: 15.6Mbps?At some point down the line everyone is on copper | |
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shpatb
Member
2014-Aug-28 10:38 am
Re: 15.6Mbps?Mind blown. | |
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| TechyDad Premium Member join:2001-07-13 USA |
to Hazy Arc
I feel your pain. I'm on Time Warner Cable and I struggle to maintain 5Mbps too.
If the Comcast merger goes through, I might get a speed bump, but then I'd also get a cap and would have to deal with Comcast. I think I'll keep the 5Mbps. | |
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karpodiemHail to The Victors Premium Member join:2008-05-20 Troy, MI |
karpodiem
Premium Member
2014-Aug-28 10:38 am
4K will kill copper, finallyFor the vast majority of DSL users (those not on U-Verse / VDSL) 4K will finally kill copper. I'm guessing at&t will tell those users to get Direct TV or fixed LTE service if they don't like it. | |
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IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC |
All the ISP's are like $$$$The ISP's with usage based billing couldn't be happier... | |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
dvd536
Premium Member
2014-Aug-28 12:30 pm
15mbitWhat a joke. thats not even blu-ray 1080P quality | |
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v6movement to dvd536
Anon
2014-Aug-28 10:28 pm
to dvd536
Re: 15mbitsaid by dvd536:What a joke. thats not even blu-ray 1080P quality Most of your posts are a joke. | |
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Maybe we'll get a video quality option?Well if they've got time to start making everything 4K, maybe they can take the time to finally implement a video quality setting (a la Netflix) instead of just pushing down whatever they determine the connection is capable of streaming at the moment. | |
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v6movement
Anon
2014-Aug-28 10:30 pm
Re: Maybe we'll get a video quality option?said by AmericanMan:Well if they've got time to start making everything 4K, maybe they can take the time to finally implement a video quality setting (a la Netflix) instead of just pushing down whatever they determine the connection is capable of streaming at the moment. Most people don't like their content looking like garbage. | |
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Re: Maybe we'll get a video quality option?I don't think that Netflix at its lowest quality constitutes as "garbage" by any means.
It's .3 GB/hour, that's still a pretty high bitrate, and it's fine for streaming, heck even on the 46-inch TV I've mistaken it for DVD quality (for older shows, that were filmed circa 2000).
And the idea behind a video quality setting is that it can help our limited bandwidth last longer, for those of us on data caps. | |
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$$4k video content is vastly upsampled. Until expensive 4k cameras create more content and prices come down, this is a small niche market. | |
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v6movement
Anon
2014-Aug-28 11:59 pm
Re: $$said by tmc8080:4k video content is vastly upsampled. Until expensive 4k cameras create more content and prices come down, this is a small niche market. Everything I have seen that is 4K is NOT upsampled. professional 4K cameras have been around for a few years from a few different vendors. When I can go out and buy a handful of different smartphones that support 4K that is beyond niche. By the middle of next year it'll be the norm for mid range smartphones and 4K consumer video cameras will be sold by all the major manufacturers. | |
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Kamus join:2011-01-27 El Paso, TX |
Kamus
Member
2014-Aug-29 1:10 pm
People didn't believe me...When i said that the transition from 1080p to "4k" was going to be the fastest and most seamless one yet.
It's simple, this time we don't have to wait for content creators to come up with a standard like bluray, and then wait years for them to actually push it out and for studios to adopt it. This time around, all we need is for streaming companies to actually start streaming in 4k, which they are already doing.
Add to that, that 4k TV prices are dropping like a rock and the fact that pretty soon you won't be able to buy a 1080p set because all the mass production facilities will be churning out 4k displays almost exclusively, and that even people that feel they don't want or "need" 4k will have no opinion in the matter, since it will be the only thing available at any price point.
I personally want a 4k Display. The difference in detail is night and day, and you actually WANT to sit closer to see the detail. Now all we need is those newly announced LG 4k OLED televisions to drop in price, and in as little as two years we will have awesome contrast to go along with the resolution.
And for those worried (justifiably) about the bitrate on 4k content. Remember that all it takes for streaming companies is to offer higher bitrate streaming options in the future and at the same time we'll have more mature encoders. | |
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