 
grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA | Stall tactics Charlie trying to stall TiVo out. | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV | Re: Stall tactics It is a HUGE risk he is taking with his company. Then estimated annual payment is almost nothing to DISH, so they should just license the tech and be done. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Stall tactics It's not a huge risk; The fight is the only thing he CAN do.
What would of happened you think if Dish just shut down and disabled the DVR's and receivers? The only option is to fight. | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV | Re: Stall tactics TiVo has always been willing to license its technology. All he has to do is send them a check every month.
Or he can replace every one of th einfringing DVR's with non-infringing(yet) DVR's. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| Financial trouble ? Dish has the money that's been decided/awarded from the earlier court case sitting in a fund specifically for the time when they finally "lose". They even mention it in their annual report filing.
said by KathrynV  : In part due to these issues, Dish has been consistently losing market share to DirecTV. When/where have these two issues been tied together ? The average consumer neither knows nor cares about court/patent battles that a company is involved in. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: Financial trouble ? said by Hall :Dish has the money that's been decided/awarded from the earlier court case sitting in a fund specifically for the time when they finally "lose". They even mention it in their annual report filing. said by KathrynV : In part due to these issues, Dish has been consistently losing market share to DirecTV. When/where have these two issues been tied together ? The average consumer neither knows nor cares about court/patent battles that a company is involved in. They do when it shows up as a line item compliance fee on their bills.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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DataDoc
Nilsson Schmilsson
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC
 ·Suddenlink
| said by Hall : The average consumer neither knows nor cares about court/patent battles that a company is involved in. They will when their DVR gets shut off by court order. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| Re: Financial trouble ? said by DataDoc : They will when their DVR gets shut off by court order. How many times has it been announced "Dish must shut down DVRs due to court finding" ? It's been more than once... and they're still working today.
Besides, I asked how Dish losing market share and these issues are related (turns out the story here was just a lot of re-wording of the Multichannel News article anyway). If a customer's DVR did get shut off, they're obviously already a Dish customer, and therefore not part of the "lost" market share. | |
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| | | NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: Financial trouble ? That court order was on the news papers and even local news stations in the DFW area. Trust me people heard about it. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH | Re: Financial trouble ? And did people leave ? For the record, and you can get this from their annual report, Dish had just over 13 million customers in 2006 and for 2007, they had a little under 14 million. So, they gained customers... | |
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belawrence
It's All About The Games
join:2000-08-06
Santee, CA
·Cox HSI
| world domination Essentially, Tivo believes that anybody who makes something even remotely resembling a DVR is infringing on them. Expect them to start going after everybody else (Motorola, Cisco) once this case concludes, Just like Verizon did after beating Vonage in court.
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Obviously you're not a golfer - Jeffery "the dude" Lebowski | |
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| nanoflower
join:2002-07-14
30876 | Re: world domination They will not be going after Motorola or Cisco. Those two companies will be using Tivo software for the DVRs so there is no reason for Tivo to go after them. They may go after DirecTV once their agreement comes to an end. | |
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herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
| Re: world domination said by nanoflower :They may go after DirecTV once their agreement comes to an end. Not a chance. Remember, DirecTV now owns ReplayTV's IP. Replay owns as many patents for DVR tech as TiVo does, so DirecTV would counter-sue in a minute if TiVo did that. | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | I agree. The patent system is flawed. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| said by belawrence : Expect them to start going after everybody else (Motorola, Cisco) once this case concludes Time Warner will be next... They've dumped, or are dumping, their 3rd-party set-top software for DVRs and are writing it themselves. Basically, if your DVR can record a show while you watch another show 'live', you're infringing on TiVo's patent(s) and are in violation. If you don't pay the licensing fee, they're going to sue you. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
edit:
June 8th, @06:53PM
| said by belawrence :Essentially, Tivo believes that anybody who makes something even remotely resembling a DVR is infringing on them. Expect them to start going after everybody else (Motorola, Cisco) once this case concludes, Just like Verizon did after beating Vonage in court. The difference here is that TiVo has licensing agreements with many other companies (Cisco, Motorola, Sony, Panasonic, Comcast, Cox, DirectTV). So they won't sue them. They sued Dish, because while TiVo and Dish were in good faith negotiations, Dish copied TiVo's designs and came out with their own TiVo. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: world domination said by Morac :They sued Dish, because while TiVo and Dish were in good faith negotiations, Dish copied TiVo's designs and came out with their own TiVo. You realize that's just TIVO's side of the story, right?
Basically the TIVO patent is extremely broad; in effect, every DVR that doesn't license from them will be sued. Doesn't matter if you built your own machine from scratch with your own software and if it was being developed concurrently; It matters not.
DISH will probably end up having to pay TIVO a ton of money, and TIVO will be no better then other patent mills.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: world domination said by KrK :You realize that's just TIVO's side of the story, right? Yes, but since the courts have sided with TiVo it is now the official story.
said by KrK :Basically the TIVO patent is extremely broad; in effect, every DVR that doesn't license from them will be sued. Doesn't matter if you built your own machine from scratch with your own software and if it was being developed concurrently; It matters not. If you actually read the patent, it is not nearly as broad as you think.
To summarize, the patent covers the case where a MPEG-2 stream is split into audio and video portions and then tagged with a time stamp before it is written to disk. To jump to a location in the video, the time stamp is used to locate the video and audio data which is then merged and output.
The key part of the patent is the Barton Media switch which does the splitting/merging and time stamping. This allows DVR functionality with a low performance computer. The original TiVo's CPU ran at 54 MHz which is not fast enough to provide DVR functionality without the Barton Media Switch.
To work around the patent, all you need to do is not include a media switch. This is what Dish supposedly did in their new software. If that is true, then their new software does not violate TiVo's patent. The problem is that an injunction against Dish is already in effect and to get it lifted they'd need to prove the new software is different enough from the old one.
As for other companies (software and hardware) DVRs running on modern machines have more than enough processing power to provide DVR functionality without a media switch, plus the patent only covers MPEG-2 so things like Windows Media Center aren't covered by the patent.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| Re: world domination said by Dude :Hey Tivo came up with something and others wanna copy it. Do you know what they came up with ? | |
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Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
| said by Dude :Hey Tivo came up with something and others wanna copy it. I think they deserve the money Yeah but the problem is they think they own the concept of time shifting.
So some company designs and develops a product and TiVO wants to get money off of it. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: world domination said by Anonymous :Yeah but the problem is they think they own the concept of time shifting. So some company designs and develops a product and TiVO wants to get money off of it. Actually they don't think they own the concept of time shifting. They own the TimeWarp patent, which is a specific type of time shifting designed to work on devices with very little processing power (this is the Media Switch). You can view the patent (diagrams and all) here.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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djoropallo
join:2003-10-20
Maple Shade, NJ | If Dish has to shut off DVRs we're gone I really like that with the Dish DVRs I only need 1 coax as opposed to the 2 I had with DTV at our previous residence, but if they lose and the DVRs are shut down we are gone, live TV sucks. | |
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Jeffrey
Bye George, 1937-2008
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Edgartown, MA
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| Re: If Dish has to shut off DVRs we're gone said by djoropallo :I really like that with the Dish DVRs I only need 1 coax as opposed to the 2 I had with DTV at our previous residence, but if they lose and the DVRs are shut down we are gone, live TV sucks. I'm afraid that's where I am too. I love Dish, and their DVR is great, but if the DVR has to be turned off, I'm going to Verizon FiosTV or back to Cablevision's TV package.
--
And so castles made of sand, slip into the sea, eventually.
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. | |
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| Binary
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV | or get a hack PVR. | |
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dude34221
join:2002-06-13
Galena, OH | tivo=milk tivo has been milking the dvr patent since they failed as a company to stay afloat. sue to win in america, i am going to patent the internet al gore style and sue everyone after all its the american way? don't forget the overcrowded court is free! | |
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Nostinkingbadges
@dslextreme.com
| It's Not Tivo It's not the fights with Tivo, or with Directv for market
share or any other BS that's killing DN.
It's FTA. If you don't know what it is, Google it.
DN's security system is completely hacked and with the
right equipment and software you can get all their
programming for free.
Over 2 million FTA receivers have been sold in the USA and Canada in the last five years. Enough said. | |
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BigMac777
join:2001-07-21
Green Valley, AZ | Dish stays with us. Actually the newer Dish HD DVD are not going to be shut down any time soon. It seems that the older DVR's are going to have to be reduced to just watching and no recording. Simple answer just get a newer model and enjoy your Dish TV. | |
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| EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Dish stays with us. TiVo is claiming that newer Dish DVRs are also covered by their patent claims. This is where the dispute lies, primarily. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Are the homebuilders next? So will those of us who build our own HTPCs to record a channel while watching another be next on Tivo's hit list?  Or will they go after Microsoft for MCE or the hardware manufacturers of tuner cards? | |
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Binary
join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV | hmm I wonder if tivo made any HD DVR's?
Wonder how big the Hard Drive be for that sucker? 4TB's? LOL | |
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Analysts Say TiVo Battle Puts Dish in a Bad Position
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