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"Antennagate" Dies With Nothing Actually Getting Fixed
While 'every smartphone does it' becomes an Apple devotee meme

During Friday's spin session to address the iPhone 4's design flaw, Apple insisted that the problems inherent in the iPhone 4 are problems experienced by all smartphones. Except not only does hard data show that the degree of problems suffered by the iPhone 4 are more extreme than other smartphones, they're not even apparent in previous iPhone versions. Needless to say, other phone manufacturers weren't too pleased with Steve Jobs. Research in Motion had this to say:

quote:
Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years.

During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity.
HTC and Samsung tell the Wall Street Journal that such problems "are certainly not common among smartphones," with HTC noting that Apple should solve problems on their own without blaming competitors. Nokia meanwhile had similar thoughts to share with Apple:
quote:
In general, antenna performance of a mobile device/phone may be affected with a tight grip, depending on how the device is held. That's why Nokia designs our phones to ensure acceptable performance in all real life cases, for example when the phone is held in either hand. Nokia has invested thousands of man hours in studying how people hold their phones and allows for this in designs, for example by having antennas both at the top and bottom of the phone and by careful selection of materials and their use in the mechanical design."
While you can cause signal loss by holding several smartphones tightly -- you'd be hard pressed to find many phones (or any previous iPhone) where the signal drops so significantly with the touch of a single fingertip. Still, with Apple's not-quite mea culpa satisfying their legions of loyal brand devotees and high-profile church leaders, you can pretty much close the book on "antennagate" with the design flaw not being fixed. At this point annoyed users can either return their device --- or get in line for one of the currently unavailable free bumpers.
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Look to the Apple forums here also...

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by ptrowski:

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
Stepping in to the lion's den in the Apple forum. About half the posters there are rabid Apple fanatics and the other half are Apple detractors. Civil discourse is rare.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
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join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

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N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

This is so true....
Goldman
join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR

2 recommendations

Goldman

Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

The Apple lovers and haters tend to do all the posting. I'm just sick of hearing about the iphone. If you don't like ATT, the antennae, or anything else, just quit bitchin and take the thing back.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
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join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by Goldman:

The Apple lovers and haters tend to do all the posting. I'm just sick of hearing about the iphone. If you don't like ATT, the antennae, or anything else, just quit bitchin and take the thing back.
I think people are able to bitch about it if they want. The Jobs idea of amazing form this time went a bit too far. Is it too much to ask to not have to worry about the new phone you got and if it will have either the antenna or proximity sensor issues? Form won the battle over function this time and Jobs was called out.

That being said I have ordered one as I always keep my phones in cases of some form.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
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join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

3 recommendations

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

To be honest, I have a different take on it. IMHO, it has nothing to do with the phone.

Any organization that can create such devotion is going to attract a LOT of attention, from both the devotees, and the detractors.

It's not just Apple. Let's talk, um Dallas Cowboys. Chevy Vs. Ford, Yankees Vs. Red Sox. You get the point.

So, take Apple in this instance. They are just more than slightly smug about their products. OS X gets no viruses, the iPhone "it will change everything AGAIN!", etc.

It had nothing to do about the phone. It was like watching the Red Sox cream the Yankees to get into the World Series. After watching the Yankees pull off win after win, it wasn't just nice to see the Sox in it, but it was nice to see the perennial winner take some lumps.

It's human nature. So common the Germans have a word for it.

Schadenfreude, loosely translated "the shameful joy".

In other words, it was pretty damn fun to see that smug prick in his black turtleneck trip over his words last Friday.

That's MY take on it....

ptrowski
Got Helix?
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ptrowski

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Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

Great point, you spelled it out very well. And as a Sox fan, screw the Yankees.

Homer J
Mmmm, Free Goo
join:2000-10-05
Knoxville, TN

1 recommendation

Homer J

Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

The Yankees Suck....

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

Great point, you spelled it out very well. And as a Sox fan, screw the Yankees.
I must take issue with you being a "Sox" fan. As a native Southside Chicagoan, please refer to yourself as a BoSox fan or Crimson Hosier. The Chicago White Sox shortened their name in 1901 whereas the BoSox shortened their name in 1908. This makes us Chicagoans the true "Sox" fan. Thank you for your adherance.

knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

knightmb to N3OGH

Member

to N3OGH
said by N3OGH:

So, take Apple in this instance. They are just more than slightly smug about their products. OS X gets no viruses, the iPhone "it will change everything AGAIN!", etc.
Yeah, the virus part always gets me. Just fixed a virus infected iMac just last week.
DonLibes

join:2003-01-19

DonLibes

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by knightmb:

said by N3OGH:

So, take Apple in this instance. They are just more than slightly smug about their products. OS X gets no viruses, the iPhone "it will change everything AGAIN!", etc.
Yeah, the virus part always gets me. Just fixed a virus infected iMac just last week.
What virus? And how did you fix it?

juilinsandar
Texas Gooner
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join:2000-07-17
San Benito, TX

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juilinsandar to N3OGH

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to N3OGH
said by N3OGH:

...it was pretty damn fun to see that smug prick in his black turtleneck trip over his words last Friday.
+1 Very true.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to ptrowski

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to ptrowski
I don't think it's "good" to just bitch about something to bitch.

This is how I see it.. if you own one and it's failed you and the company has failed you at the same time, you own the right to out-right "bitch"...

If you don't own one, never will own one, then say your peace and move on. But, to claim rights to "bitch about it" because they are able to just, quite honestly, makes that person look like a complete retart.

Everyone has the "right" to bitch, however, they also retain the right to look stupid if they're bitching just to bitch and to be viewed as idiots by others.

If someone is not a customer of apple nor ever intends to be - then quite honestly, no, in all definitions and context of the meaning to "bitch", they don't have "a right" to bitch, or gripe, or complain. The world doesn't need support from the sidelines for decisions that ultimately lay at the feet of those that are actually in that particular game. To do so otherwise is a "holier than thou" mentality.

Also, like you, I am not on my 2nd iPhone.. it's been worlds above any other phone that I've owned before for MY needs. The Nextel phones - all suck. The Moto Razr - great for making a call. Palm Trio 700w - piece of crap. Palm Pre - no thank you, went right back to the store the next day, over hyped piece of garbage. (Who is going to use one single hard to hear text tone? Who needs a phone that hard locks, tiny keyboard that reminds me of my casio caluculator watch, and a software design that was clearly not thought through especially the media player) Moving on.. The Moto 9QC, great battery but not very functional.

The iPhone - does everything I want and then some and has been perfect for MY needs. I don't need it modded, don't need to jail break it, I don't need to install any other apps on it that aren't already available for what I use, and in MY area, I've rarely dropped calls....

...AND, I've ALWAYS put bumpers on mine just like 99.5% of all iPhone users have - which I find really funny. People get a new phone, and "OMG!!! I need a bumper to make this work?????" Show me anyone that buys an iPhone in ANY great numbers the day of or with in 24 hours of purchase, and I'll give you my answer as to WHY I think the whole bumper-gate is a crock! The antenna, while SOME phones clearly have a design flaw in them, became the excuse as to why people wanted their "free bumper" that they were going to be buying anyway, just like they always did. Like I said, I RARELY see an iPhone user that doesn't have their phone in a case.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz

Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

I have an iPhone 4. I had a 2g, 3g and 3gs.

I like the design and would like to keep it without the stupid cover, as I have ALWAYS used the others before, unless needed to hook up the extended battery.

The antenna design is stupid and was done ignoring engineering warnings.

I do not intend to return it, since I like it, but will have to put a clear coat on the affected area.

So, in my opinion, to put it nicely, Apple blows goats.

Now, YOU, as always, make excuses for crooked companies. As I said once before, British Petroleum needs you.

vzw emp
@144.191.148.x

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vzw emp to ptrowski

Anon

to ptrowski
I think the biggest issue is how they handled it. If Jobs would have stepped up, said "We made a mistake, we tried something new and ran into unforeseen problems. We're going to give you a free case to help with the antenna issue", it would be over by now. I'm sure the general public would have been satisfied with that. But instead he comes before the world and declares there is no issue (kind of insulting the more I think about it), tries to drag other manufacturers into the muck with him and says the press is being unfair.

I understand the media is making a bigger issue with this than if it were any other manufacturer, but when Consumer Reports, probably the most objective, trusted, independent testing company in existence tests your product and finds an issue you should stop with the public relations BS. My guess is Steve and Co. are following the advice of attorneys and refusing to admit a problem due to possible litigation.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz

Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by vzw emp :

I think the biggest issue is how they handled it. If Jobs would have stepped up, said "We made a mistake, we tried something new and ran into unforeseen problems. We're going to give you a free case to help with the antenna issue", it would be over by now. I'm sure the general public would have been satisfied with that. But instead he comes before the world and declares there is no issue (kind of insulting the more I think about it), tries to drag other manufacturers into the muck with him and says the press is being unfair.

I understand the media is making a bigger issue with this than if it were any other manufacturer, but when Consumer Reports, probably the most objective, trusted, independent testing company in existence tests your product and finds an issue you should stop with the public relations BS. My guess is Steve and Co. are following the advice of attorneys and refusing to admit a problem due to possible litigation.
Truth.
pandora
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join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora to N3OGH

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to N3OGH
No matter how you feel about Apple (positive or negative) stuff like this only helps Google's Android.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

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Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by pandora:

No matter how you feel about Apple (positive or negative) stuff like this only helps Google's Android.
Ummm.. that's a little bit indulgent don't you think?

The world of smart phones doesn't exist with only apple and android. There are MANY people still that do not like or want either.. many people swear by their blackberry phones still. There are people that could care less about PDAs as well.

Just because apple does something doesn't mean it will help android and if something happens to android doesn't mean that it will help apple.

Sorry to say, but that's pure 'rooting' for the other side.. which is funny, because to even 'take a side' is, in my book, just strange. That relates to there being a competition between the end users and quite honestly, if EVERYONE tomorrow went out and dumped their iPhone, except me, for an android, how exactly is that going to affect me and my decisions? ... not a bit, because what someone else chooses to do has no bearing on me.. likewise in return.

And I'm sorry, but in this particular case, I think you're wrong. Its like the dems and repubs.. neither party directly matters as they have their solid base.. each have about 40-something-percent of the voters.. it's the small amount of undecided in the middle that matter. Android-heads will buy their android phones because they work for them.. apple-heads will buy their iPhones because what ever reason they have no matter what.. is the REST of the people that these companies are really looking for.
pandora
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join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

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Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by fiberguy2:

Ummm.. that's a little bit indulgent don't you think?
I don't own an Android phone, and have in the past owned a first generation iPhone. My current phone is a Palm Pre, but the numbers don't lie. Android sales are skyrocketing, and the more AT&T or Apple flub, the better Android looks.

I love my WebOS phone, but don't for a moment believe it will surpass Android or the iPhone. Prior to that I had Palm OS phones.

The trend toward Android is a lot like the trend toward the iPhone years ago. Bad AT&T network or Apple iPhone design news only helps people decide to jump ship IMO.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20

1 recommendation

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

In your first paragraph, you actually said three things that just don't fit together.

Android sales are skyrocketing, yes, but it's not because of apple. In fact, apple, att and android the OS can't even be easily compared in this situation. att still has customers, apple still sells plenty of iPhones, and android is an O/S that runs on multiple pieces of hardware. The analysis between them isn't simple, rather quite complex, if trying to use numbers to figure out trends. Quite honestly the real reasons why people move will never be an exact science.

You then said "the more AT&T flub, the better android looks. You also said "the numbers don't lie".. as for numbers, yes, they do lie. Numbers is all a game - it's how the analysis chose to apply them. Give an accountant a set of books (numbers) and tell him what you want them to look like in the end, and a good accountant can make it happen - same can be said about numbers and statistics. This happens ALL the times, especially in politics. Ever heard one part or another after election day say "the people have spoken.. they spoke for A, B, C.. " umm... not really because they may have voted the other party OUT because of their X, Y, Z issues. (Any pubs that get in office this next election will most likely be there not because pubs are any better, hell, we just tossed them out like yesterdays news last election as a people.. however, the same is likely to happen in the next cycle to the dems.. it's not a vote of confidence, but the numbers would be, and can be, stated as so.

On the the more that at&t and apple flub, the better it looks for android. First off, if at&t has issues, it doesn't mean people will jump ship from their iPhone, for one. Also, at&t issues and apple issues don't always go hand in hand. Some loyal iPhone users will stick with at&t because that's their carrier. iPhone users who are upset with apple are not necessarily only looking at android either. That is pure assumption and baseless thinking, sorry. I'll tell you right now, I had already had an android (hero) I also had an iPhone at the same time. Got news.. I now have 2 iPhones. I'm one person that will NEVER - EVER go to an android based phone ever again. For ME, I don't like the interface alone.. too many taps, not organized or arranged very well, and I hate the notification center. It's just not for ME. I'm not the only one either.

I will agree 100% with you on the trend towards iPhone though. Android is still in its infancy stage and their initial surge is still happening. There still is ABSOLUTELY no hard core data, and never will be, on people jumping ship from an iPhone/at&t to another carrier with an android phone.

Until iPhone 4 and SOME units having issues, there hasn't been a "bad" iPhone. To jump all over apple this as much as people are, is sensationalizing something from a "gotchya" moment. There are loyal customers that are upset, but will still remain loyal. There are people that don't and never will own an apple product and quite honestly those people are screaming loudly about this.. apple does like to tout a reputation of "our stuff just works".. and it does.. they hit a bump, have a small issue, and everyone is out there like this is some Sarah Palin "gotchya" moment..

It's all sensationalism.

The bottom line is this.. people OFTEN make the mistake, especially in forums like these, and like to call the gloom and doom and the "end of...X" anytime there is an issue.. the bottom line is, please show me and everyone else where there is any sizable amount of these "X company is going to pay big time for this" predictions that have really ever come true.. once you look at THAT number, historically, then you'll have your answer as to "only helps people decide to jump ship"..
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by fiberguy2:

In your first paragraph, you actually said three things that just don't fit together.
I respectfully disagree.
said by fiberguy2:

Android sales are skyrocketing, yes, but it's not because of apple. In fact, apple, att and android the OS can't even be easily compared in this situation. att still has customers, apple still sells plenty of iPhones, and android is an O/S that runs on multiple pieces of hardware. The analysis between them isn't simple, rather quite complex, if trying to use numbers to figure out trends. Quite honestly the real reasons why people move will never be an exact science.
Apple has always controlled it's hardware and bundled software with hardware. There was a brief experimental period, where Apple did permit some 3rd party hardware development, but Apple quickly closed the door on that. There are unofficial hackintoshes.

By being hardware and network agnostic, Google has many additional venues to push sales of it's Android OS. Android is now outselling the iPhone. It is now the most popular phone to have, more popular than the iPhone. Even though it comes with many choices of hardware.
said by fiberguy2:

You then said "the more AT&T flub, the better android looks. You also said "the numbers don't lie".. as for numbers, yes, they do lie. Numbers is all a game - it's how the analysis chose to apply them. Give an accountant a set of books (numbers) and tell him what you want them to look like in the end, and a good accountant can make it happen - same can be said about numbers and statistics. This happens ALL the times, especially in politics. Ever heard one part or another after election day say "the people have spoken.. they spoke for A, B, C.. " umm... not really because they may have voted the other party OUT because of their X, Y, Z issues. (Any pubs that get in office this next election will most likely be there not because pubs are any better, hell, we just tossed them out like yesterdays news last election as a people.. however, the same is likely to happen in the next cycle to the dems.. it's not a vote of confidence, but the numbers would be, and can be, stated as so.
Android phones now outsell iPhones. That number isn't a lie. I'm not certain how political spin comes into this. Here is the math, it isn't complex, or political, it is what it is - »tech.fortune.cnn.com/201 ··· -iphone/
Steve Jobs confirms: Android outselling iPhone

Posted by Seth Weintraub

July 16, 2010 3:22 PM

A little math shows that Android has surpassed iPhone in raw numbers.

Steve Jobs said today that Apple has sold 3 million iPhone 4's in just 22 days. That's pretty impressive, but Google announced yesterday – and at the Droid X announcement last month – that it is activating 160,000 Android devices per day. Multiply that out by 22 days and you get over 3.5 million devices sold.

So, is it official then?

To be fair: we don't know how many previous-generation iPhone 3GS models (which are still being sold) Apple is currently selling, so the total number of iPhones sold per day is unclear. Apple also currently only sells the iPhone 4 in its largest five national markets. It will launch iPhone 4 in smaller markets over the next few months.

Something that could possibly be more troubling for Apple is that there was some pent up demand if Apple sold 1.7 million in the first few days in the US and only 1.3 million more in the following 19 days, including the launches in UK, France, Germany and Japan.

That means that since the quater started for Apple 19 days ago, Apple has only sold around 70,000 iPhone 4s a day, less than half of the current Android activation rate.

One reason for this is that supplies of iPhone 4's appear to be constrained. While the iPhone 3GS is available everywhere, the iPhone 4 has a three week lead time –and there is no white model to be found until the end of the month.

Apple has a full year until they release another iPhone (unless they release an antenna-fixed iPhone 4.1) if they stick to their yearly summer launch schedule.

If you want to get a larger picture of the mobile OS landscape, other factors have to be considered. Apple's iOS is running on Apple's popular iPods and iPads as well as the iPhone. Android hasn't yet made inroads into those markets, so iOS is probaby still out in front of Android overall. Android does count in its activation tallies devices which access the Internet through cellular service, including eReaders like the Nook. But those numbers are rounding errors compared to mobile phone sales.

However, in phones, Google seems to have a winner on its hands. It will be hard for Apple to catch Android's numbers if the company can't even surpass their competitor's running weekly total at its yearly iPhone launch.
said by fiberguy2:

On the the more that at&t and apple flub, the better it looks for android. First off, if at&t has issues, it doesn't mean people will jump ship from their iPhone, for one. Also, at&t issues and apple issues don't always go hand in hand. Some loyal iPhone users will stick with at&t because that's their carrier. iPhone users who are upset with apple are not necessarily only looking at android either. That is pure assumption and baseless thinking, sorry. I'll tell you right now, I had already had an android (hero) I also had an iPhone at the same time. Got news.. I now have 2 iPhones. I'm one person that will NEVER - EVER go to an android based phone ever again. For ME, I don't like the interface alone.. too many taps, not organized or arranged very well, and I hate the notification center. It's just not for ME. I'm not the only one either.
When AT&T (the only cellular provider used by Apple for the iPhone in the U.S.) flubs, or when Apple flubs, it creates opportunity for the Android as a capable alternative which is hardware and cell provider agnostic. If you hate AT&T, fine with Android, if you hate Verizon or Spring, that is OK with Android too. What isn't to love about an agnostic capable cell phone OS?
said by fiberguy2:

I will agree 100% with you on the trend towards iPhone though. Android is still in its infancy stage and their initial surge is still happening. There still is ABSOLUTELY no hard core data, and never will be, on people jumping ship from an iPhone/at&t to another carrier with an Android phone.
The numbers tell the story, Android is outselling the iPhone. Eventually Android will be on tablets and will probably outsell the iPad. AT&T is probably the most expensive cellular data carrier in the U.S. the iPhone has been a boondoggle for it. I pay less than half for better service on Sprint than I'd have on AT&T. Why would I want an iPhone and get to pay twice as month per month? Do you think I'm alone in doing that math?
said by fiberguy2:

Until iPhone 4 and SOME units having issues, there hasn't been a "bad" iPhone. To jump all over apple this as much as people are, is sensationalizing something from a "gotchya" moment. There are loyal customers that are upset, but will still remain loyal. There are people that don't and never will own an apple product and quite honestly those people are screaming loudly about this.. apple does like to tout a reputation of "our stuff just works".. and it does.. they hit a bump, have a small issue, and everyone is out there like this is some Sarah Palin "gotchya" moment..
I had the iPhone first generation, it was awful, trust me. EDGE is pathetic. I also paid a fortune for it, shortly after purchase Apple and AT&T lowered the price. My choice was to upgrade from the misery that was the iPhone first generation to the next. Sorry, burned once, and I'm gone.
said by fiberguy2:

It's all sensationalism.

The bottom line is this.. people OFTEN make the mistake, especially in forums like these, and like to call the gloom and doom and the "end of...X" anytime there is an issue.. the bottom line is, please show me and everyone else where there is any sizable amount of these "X company is going to pay big time for this" predictions that have really ever come true.. once you look at THAT number, historically, then you'll have your answer as to "only helps people decide to jump ship"..
If you mean a failing AT&T network that can't handle the load, and a defective 4th generation iPhone are sensationalism, well then yes, I guess it is. On the other hand, if you mean a failing AT&T network that is twice as expensive as much of the competition per phone line and a failed 4th generation iPhone are a flub, well then yes, they are. I guess it depends on how much of an Apple fanboy we each are.

I suspect the more AT&T and Apple mess up, the more people will look at the Android (and possible other alternatives) and migrate.

The headache I got composing this reply reminds me of why I don't post in the Apple or Linux forums
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Take out apple and linux from the equation because my disagreements are not ANYTHING to do with those items.. this could be a topic of Miscrosoft or some other company and my post would remain the same.

Let me just point a couple things out and we'll leave it at that.

1) You're doing what I said you were.. you're half assing the statistics to make it fit your desired out come - that's statistics 101.

2) You're basing a lot of your opinions on trivial information (by not supply any real numbers and explaining why you're saying what you are) AND thinking in your own eco system.. you're not taking int account that people don't always think like you and ESPECIALLY like the collective on this site.

3) After number 2 above, this site HARDLY represents the average consumer and the way they think.

4) I will disagree with you on your first statement as what you said in your first paragraph of the other post ABSOLUTELY are not going to relate. Part of it was fact, part of it was opinion - doesn't work. You might as well have said "What is 2 + orange?"...

one little note.. even if android is outselling the iPhone, you said it best.. it's available on more carriers than just at&t.. that alone says that more people that aren't at&t customers have access to the android based product. You are attempting to take that number, disregard other "facts" to come up with your conclusion. You know why I was never a black berry storm customer? Because I'd not touch Verizon with a 100 foot pole. Same applies to at&t.. some won't touch them no matter how bad they want the iPhone.

I said it earlier.. there are WAY too many stats that would have to be looked at to get an answer on why people are buying certain phones.. there's phone makers, software, and carriers, to say a few, to take into account and since they don't all share and mix statistics with each other, the real answers and reasons will NEVER be known. Simple surveys and studies also will NOT tell the real answer either. However, one thing remains clear and for certain, android is NOT the only option to apple nor is apple the only option to android.

Time
Premium Member
join:2003-07-05
Irvine, CA

Time to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
That's probably the case because there appear to be varying degrees of signal issues. Some people don't have problems, and others can't even make calls. I'm not going to make any statements about the phone because I don't own it and haven't experienced the issue. It's no secret that when taking information from news sources, there can be bias at play.

On the flip side, you can't really make any pro-Apple, pro-AT&T comments out here in the News section. Else you'll have a large group of Android and Sprint/Verizon fans claiming their superiority. It doesn't matter where you live and how coverage varies from person to person, people view their negative experience with AT&T as it being the case for the entire network. It really is severe hypocrisy at play, but it only takes someone who's neither a fan, nor a hater, to identify.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

1 recommendation

djrobx to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
quote:
Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
And to others, it's a flawed design that nobody can possibly enjoy, so people who own it are blithering idiots who worship Steve Jobs.

You shouldn't be so shocked to find the Apple forum contains people leaning towards the other extreme.

I'll now make my obligatory comment for balance: My iPhone 4 is great, and I have no problems with its reception.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR

Selenia to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
LOL and they don't even think that there might be a reason(s) I don't own one(there are reasons that come before even considering the antenna issue). It doesn't mean you don't know anything about a design flaw THAT bad. I am an engineer and besides computers, my hobby was radios during much of my young life. I know what works and doesn't work, in terms of antennas. It seems many were having iphone4 issues in my area(probably due to marginal signal in many spots for all carriers), so that piqued my interest enough to actually borrow and take a close look at a few. It took me but seconds to see the folly in that design, yet teh Steve still refuses to admit it's a design flaw. Steve, what happens when you change the shape of an antenna, intentionally or not(like, say, by having 2 of them close together so that fingers bridge the 2 antennas)? Exactly!

But yeah, I have seen the return it statement much too much. Then again, it does help Apple lose some money for ignoring this. So hey, if it affects you(hate to sound like them), return it. It's the only real way to show your disapproval of how the issue was handled at this point. It's a sorry state of affairs that it will likely be a bumper case or return your phone, for those in more marginal areas(like mine), especially considering the radio in the phone is otherwise superb, by my own tests.

I agree with your point about what happens in the Mac forum, ptrowski See Profile but remember, it always seems to be the same vocal few in each thread. The Mac forum here is one of the most civil I've seen all in all. Don't let a few loud mouths who know nothing ruin it for you. Peace.

Chillin
No i7, no care.
Premium Member
join:2002-04-22
Johnson City, TN

Chillin to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
said by ptrowski:

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
Seems like to some that if there are a few with a problem, all must have the problem. It also seems some ignore people with out a problem (most clearly), and only listen to those with one (less people).

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

1 recommendation

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by Chillin:
said by ptrowski:

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
Seems like to some that if there are a few with a problem, all must have the problem. It also seems some ignore people with out a problem (most clearly), and only listen to those with one (less people).

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
I rest my case.

Chillin
No i7, no care.
Premium Member
join:2002-04-22
Johnson City, TN

Chillin

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by ptrowski:

said by Chillin:
said by ptrowski:

If you mention it is a design flaw, you will be jumped on immediately and asked if you even own one and if you don't yet you will be dismissed. If you do own one you will repeatedly be told to return it over and over again.

Seems like to some if they don't have the problem then no one does.
Seems like to some that if there are a few with a problem, all must have the problem. It also seems some ignore people with out a problem (most clearly), and only listen to those with one (less people).

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
I rest my case.
Right back at you, your so far to the other degree and overstating everything. You have no data. At least Apple provided some numbers, sure they could be twisted, just like yours are.

You often make this issue out to be like it effects everyone. Which I am sure is why barely anyone is rushing them back.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Chillin

Premium Member

to Chillin
said by Chillin:

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
That data is too soon for comparison. 3GS numbers were based on a much longer time period. You are comparing apples & oranges. Statistics can be twisted many ways.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by FFH5:
said by Chillin:

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
That data is too soon for comparison. 3GS numbers were based on a much longer time period. You are comparing apples & oranges. Statistics can be twisted many ways.
Don't try to reason with him. He will just throw something else back or ask if you have the phone itself.

Chillin
No i7, no care.
Premium Member
join:2002-04-22
Johnson City, TN

Chillin

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by ptrowski:

said by FFH5:
said by Chillin:

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
That data is too soon for comparison. 3GS numbers were based on a much longer time period. You are comparing apples & oranges. Statistics can be twisted many ways.
Don't try to reason with him. He will just throw something else back or ask if you have the phone itself.
I see you ordered one finally.

••••••••••••••••
Chillin

Chillin to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by Chillin:

Why not let the hard data speak for itself. 1.7% returns. 1/3rd that of the 3GS.
That data is too soon for comparison. 3GS numbers were based on a much longer time period. You are comparing apples & oranges. Statistics can be twisted many ways.
Sure they can, for now though thats the current numbers. We cant time travel so lets just assume for now they are close .

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to Chillin

Premium Member

to Chillin
So you admit the flaw, and admit the argument that the fans will just put up with the flaw, while others may tolerate it because 1) it doesn't affect them personally, or 2) They like their Iphone4 for other reasons and have decided just to get a bumper or whatever. There's your data for ya.

Chillin
No i7, no care.
Premium Member
join:2002-04-22
Johnson City, TN

Chillin

Premium Member

Re: Look to the Apple forums here also...

said by KrK:

So you admit the flaw, and admit the argument that the fans will just put up with the flaw, while others may tolerate it because 1) it doesn't affect them personally, or 2) They like their Iphone4 for other reasons and have decided just to get a bumper or whatever. There's your data for ya.
I never suggested there is a problem. I suggest its smaller than many people want to make it. It's really not that hard to understand.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

KrK to ptrowski

Premium Member

to ptrowski
Yes, the Church of Apple Fanboi is strong and devoted. They gladly turn in their tithes of cash to Apple for products bearing the Fruit-Logo of Perfection.

There can be no design flaw. It's all user error.

End of line.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Lawsuits?

If I was a shareholder for any of the companies attacked by Apple as supposedly having the same problem, I'd sincerely hope that the management starts talking to the lawyers about suing Apple for slander.

I don't think any of us have seen a smartphone (or any phone) that loses signal so blatently just by holding it "normally."

••••••••••••••
caco
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK

2 edits

caco

Premium Member

Pending lawsuits at play

Apple's(Job's) response was a defense against current lawsuits working their way thru the courts. Company is looking towards the future as in the next quarter's numbers and the extremely slight hit they will take when the settle the lawsuits over the antenna.

No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net

No to ESPN

Anon

Re: Pending lawsuits at play

The class action lawsuits appear to be the rational solution to this mess. The only issue is that Apple is not showing any class on this one. I wonder if the stockholders will cry wolf at some point.

SkellBasher
Yes Sorto, I'll take my Prozac
join:2000-10-22
Niagara Falls, NY

SkellBasher

Member

No different than any other APple product

The Apple 'cultists' will continue to blindly defend the phone without considering any of the problems, simply because it's an Apple product.

The Apple 'haters' will continue to rail against the phone without considering any other evidence, simply because it's an Apple product.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

DavePR

Member

Apple reminds me of a cult

If you need a pocket computer to be valid you are not worth much. I have a free phone that makes calls and does email. The service is $35 a month.

I do have an iPod Touch, but I try to keep it out of sight. I use it to tune web radio in my mobile wifi hotspot SUV..

Steve Jobs looked truly rattled Friday; he spoke gibberish as well.

TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium Member
join:2002-01-25
Lithia, FL

TechieZero

Premium Member

Re: Apple reminds me of a cult

said by DavePR:

Steve Jobs looked truly rattled Friday; he spoke gibberish as well.
I don't think he should have handled this. He was too emotional and caught up in it, someone else should have done it. He didn't come off very well at all.

hurleyp
join:2000-06-20
Ottawa, ON

hurleyp

Member

Enough already

It's just a f***ing cellphone. With all the media coverage, you'd think Apple was lacing baby food with broken glass and cigarette butts. If you don't like it, take it back and buy something else.

Sheesh.

•••
n2ubp
join:2007-07-13
Middletown, NY

n2ubp

Member

Was it ego or the typical CEO I heard on the news?

I listened and watched clips of Jobs response to the iphone 4 issues on the evening news. Even if the phone was "perfect" I sure did not care for the tone of his message. I wonder if he believes his own words?
nishiko7
Premium Member
join:2007-05-01
Pleasant Hill, CA

nishiko7

Premium Member

Steve Jobs and Apple need to grow up!

A real sign of maturity is accepting full responsibility for a mistake, and in the context of this, the company bending over backwards to make it right (like recalling the obviously defective phones).

Instead, Apple cares more about its pride and almighty dollar.

Good to know, informs my FUTURE buying decisions w/regard to any more Apple products.

•••

Chillin
No i7, no care.
Premium Member
join:2002-04-22
Johnson City, TN

Chillin

Premium Member

Bottom Line...

For me its clear there is a issue with some phones, those people should return their phones and stop crying about it.

There are people on this very site that have had a phone with a issue, taken it back and got a phone working perfect. Those that cant get a working phone or dont want the iPhone 4 anymore, why not get a refund and move on? Vote with your dollar. I think its noteable to bring up that 98.3% of iPhone 4 customers enjoy their phone enough to keep it, some with and some without problems.

I think the over all point is that its been blown out of proportion, other phones do it, there are videos on videos of it out there.

••••••••••
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

Rubber Buggy Bumpers Anyone?

The next time I have a problem with the signal reaching my cell phone I will get a Rubber Buggy Bumper to fix it.
ernstk
join:2001-05-08
Middle Village, NY

1 recommendation

ernstk

Member

Re: Rubber Buggy Bumpers Anyone?

>>>I will get a Rubber Buggy Bumper to fix it.
Something like this?
That would make it a Dick-Ta-Phone.
Ernie
Prespd
join:2004-03-10
Wyoming, MI

Prespd

Member

From me and Palm

»www.precentral.net/palms ··· -way-you

»www.facebook.com/palm?v=wall

"Hold it any way you like."

Thanks Palm. I do with my Pre. No problem here. FU APPLE! And look, I can ad any homebrew app, kernel, whatever people will come up with.

Palm(HP) is subtle about it, and good for them. Hurts just a little more that way. I wish they would do a commercial about it.

NetAdmin1
CCNA
join:2008-05-22

1 recommendation

NetAdmin1

Member

*yawn*


badreception
@insightbb.com

badreception

Anon

Most Phones have Antenna Issues

I won't defend Apple, but most cellular phones today have poor antenna design. Smart phone or not, the goal for any mobile phone is good reception/transmission and not having dropped calls (AT&T, T-Mobile) or cutouts in conversation (Verizon, Sprint) during the call. Assuming the software is not poor, there is a direct correlation between the number of bars shown on the screen and good cellular reception/transmission.

Case in point is my Samsung T339. This is a basic flip phone with wifi for UMA. One would think that the best location for the antenna is on the screen/top portion of the phone so the signal is not blocked by the hand when holding the phone. With this phone, when you hold it normally with either hand, the number of bars for either cellular or wifi drops one or two. This leads me to believe the antennas are in the bottom of the phone. What the heck were they thinking?

Considering that T-Mobile's 1900 MHz GSM is often weak to begin with, this is a clear example of fashion over function. I'll take function (no dropped calls) any day.

My old Sanyo prepaid Sprint cell phone had a very functional external antenna. Raise the antenna and the number of bars would increase. WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!

Try the hand test on your own cell phone for comparison.

ReVeLaTeD
Premium Member
join:2001-11-10
San Diego, CA

ReVeLaTeD

Premium Member

Re: Most Phones have Antenna Issues

said by badreception :

Case in point is my Samsung T339. This is a basic flip phone with wifi for UMA. One would think that the best location for the antenna is on the screen/top portion of the phone so the signal is not blocked by the hand when holding the phone. With this phone, when you hold it normally with either hand, the number of bars for either cellular or wifi drops one or two. This leads me to believe the antennas are in the bottom of the phone. What the heck were they thinking?

...

Try the hand test on your own cell phone for comparison.
TO your first question, if you're on a call, the bottom of the phone is often higher than the top of the phone. That's why.

That said, the HTC HD and EVO do have the top of the phone as the antenna, and it gets fairly good signal strength.

I'll say this though - I can't replicate this issue with my BlackBerry Pearl, couldn't with the Storm or the Storm 2, and can't with the Palm Pre Plus. When I say "replicate", I mean where I grip the phone and lose ALL bars.

And to the RIM CEO's:
"One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity."
Well said.

badreception
@insightbb.com

badreception

Anon

Re: Most Phones have Antenna Issues

"TO your first question, if you're on a call, the bottom of the phone is often higher than the top of the phone. That's why"

Flip phones have a bottom and a top. The screen is higher than the touchpad/mouthpiece when open, except maybe when lying down on a bed and making a call. Ears are higher than mouth.

Again, if the goal is good reception, than ANY reduction in signal strength caused by holding the phone normally is POOR and better antenna design is needed (external antenna, etc.).

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

I have every iPhone and love it

but the fact is that the reception has always been rather terrible and I have lived in several major cities with the iPhones over the years.

JohnInSJ
Premium Member
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

JohnInSJ

Premium Member

expect the expected

Did anyone actually expect anything different to happen? Why? It's just a churn in the news cycle.

WikedWinnah
@cox.net

WikedWinnah

Anon

Amazing

This is so amazing. The internet today is full of self made experts. It's GREAT! Really. Remember when people used to listen to Dvorak? If this fiasco happened in the 90's, AAPL stock would've crashed and the product RIP'd. People followed tech analysts religiously. However, today, people can actually think for themselves and find out this is all overblown B.S. It's actually have a reverse effect by giving FREE publicity to Apple. Apple's earning are through the roof selling Mac's, iPads, and iPhones. People are curious to know what is "antennagate" and after researching it on their own and going to the Apple Store to see the phone, they find out "antennagate" is bogus and walk out with a new iPhone. Maybe even a shiny new Mac too!

Don't believe me? Look what happened with Windows. How many issues did it take to kill it. Remember Y2K? People bought Windows anyway. People are STILL using Windows.
rjbied
join:2005-02-09
Chicago, IL

rjbied

Member

Could Apple's iPhone 4 be cursed?

From WGN Chicago -

"The popular device has been plagued by misfortunes — including a suicide, two lost prototypes and a shaky debut. On Friday, the company is expected to respond to antenna complaints."

»www.wgntv.com/news/la-fi ··· 19.story