Apple Cooking Up Universal SIM As Well As Smaller, Cheaper iPhones Last fall reports surfaced indicating Apple was working on a programmable SIM card that would allow consumers to buy a phone online or at the Apple Store -- with all activation via Apple's App Store -- bypassing European carriers entirely. The problem, as we noted then, that this was only happening in Europe -- the political and financial power of AT&T and Verizon never allowing such disruption here in the States. Fast forward a few months and Bloomberg now notes that Apple's working on a number of iPhone revisions, including smaller and cheaper iPhones, dual-mode iPhones, and -- "Universal SIM": Apple is working on a technology called a Universal SIM, which would let iPhone users toggle between GSM networks without having to switch the so-called SIM cards that associate a phone with a network, according to one person. This would help cut the cost of distributing and managing millions of SIM cards. The new features could also give Apple an advantage over mobile carriers in influencing customers. The device would be affordable without a carrier subsidy, so buyers would not need to agree to terms, such as termination fees, that carriers demand in exchange for subsidizing the cost of the phone. Apple has also worked on redesigned iPhone software that would let customers choose a network and configure their device on their own, without relying on a store clerk or representative of a carrier, according to the person. meanwhile directs our attention to the fact that Apple has a shiny new patent allowing them to "collect rate information from participating wireless networks within a region and automatically select or allow users to select the best option." Apple's tendency to lock things down tight makes you wonder just open open this concept will be when fully cooked, and whether it will be more more pro-Apple than pro-consumer. Meanwhile, companies like AT&T and Verizon aren't going to let their domination of the mobile ecosystem wane without a fight, and the two politically powerful companies have plenty of ways to erect political and regulatory roadblocks along Apple's path.
|
 | | Apple sees the telcos for the shams that they are This is evidence that Apple's experience with AT&T has taught them several lessons about the telcos. Now Apple is armed with the tools required to relegate them to the dumb pipe status that they deserve to be at. | |
|  |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Apple sees the telcos for the shams that they are No. Apple wants to control and profit from select Telcos that have partnered with Apple. Instead of unlocking your iPhone and allowing you to switch SIM cards yourself, Apple wants to force you to use only THEIR approved carriers.
Want to use your ATT iPhone on T-Mobile going forward? Sorry nope. With the glorious USIM that they control, you have to use an Apple approved carrier.
If you buy your phone unlocked, the carriers are already dumb pipes.
If you cheap out and get the subsidized phone, then yep - the carriers that subsidize the phones get to make the terms of the contract.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | | | said by muttley :This is evidence that Apple's experience with AT&T has taught them several lessons about the telcos. Now Apple is armed with the tools required to relegate them to the dumb pipe status that they deserve to be at.
Actually this benefits Apple and the mobile carriers but not the consumer.
Apple just lowered the cost to the carriers as they no longer need to spend money on SIM cards. They also no longer buy the phone or have distribution expenses.
As tiger72 said, Apple also now controls which carrier you can use with their phone. So goodbye to using the iphone on non-Apple approved carriers. | |
|
 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Doomed "The device would be affordable without a carrier subsidy, so buyers would not need to agree to terms, such as termination fees, that carriers demand in exchange for subsidizing the cost of the phone."
Mobile phone service providers like Verizon and AT&T will find a way to kill such flexibility long before it makes it to the market.
While the carriers DO subsidize the cost of the phone up front in return for a long term contract, they like doing it. They like having you locked into that long term contract with that huge ETF in order to hold you hostage to their network, and their terms & conditions.
Shit, Just realized I pretty much parroted the headline.
Apple does this, and Steve Jobs will find himself in the same ditch as the guy who built the car that runs on water, or the 150 MPG carburetor....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple
| |
| |  Steve BPremium
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA | Re: US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple said by Romney2012:Verizon & AT&T can kill this Apple plan cold by refusing to let Apple activate new phones like Apple can do now. If they end contracts with Apple that allows Apple to do activation, it will force customers to deal directly with their carrier representatives to enable the phone. And that keeps power with them for new users.
Very true, they can do that. Although, I'm just thinking...would they really do that though? I could be missing something but, to me, it would just piss off a lot of people. The carriers wouldn't want that. | |
| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple Um, they kind of all ready excel at pissing off a lot of people. They don't seem to care.
VerizonSprintAT&T will all think that the little computer company from Cupertino has gotten just a bit to big for it's britches..
Corporate hubris, after all, is the American way.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. After all Apple is on course to become the most valuable company in the world.
Stop and think about that for a second. Bigger than Exxon/Mobil, bigger than Halliburton, bigger than Verizon, bigger than AT&T, bigger than Microsoft, bigger than Google.
Boggles the mind. I'll give Jobs credit, he puts proverbial "asses in the seats" and his stuff sells out on a regular basis.
Not bad for 2 guys who started in a garage....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
| | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by Steve B:said by Romney2012:Verizon & AT&T can kill this Apple plan cold by refusing to let Apple activate new phones like Apple can do now. If they end contracts with Apple that allows Apple to do activation, it will force customers to deal directly with their carrier representatives to enable the phone. And that keeps power with them for new users.
Very true, they can do that. Although, I'm just thinking...would they really do that though? I could be missing something but, to me, it would just piss off a lot of people. The carriers wouldn't want that. I think they might if they think Apple is trying to make it easier for customers to switch carriers and also to ace out the carriers from direct contact with the customer. As big as Apple is, carriers have a lot of cellphone makers they can do business with. | |
| | | | slckusrPremium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple You can be assured if the carriers try to limit the phones activation rights on their networks we will see some lawsuits. Those lawsuits would help the consumers in regards to the cellular industry, so we probably wont see the carriers go down that road for fear of greater losses.
It is rather telling though when you have a company bragging their not worried about competition from other iPhone's because they have xxx amounts of people locked into contracts. Basing your business model on controlling your customers ability for choice in a free market society might not be the best of ideas. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
| Re: US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple Carriers can limit the activations to their network. Apple is GIVEN the rights to those activation systems from the carriers. The carriers CAN pull Apple's rights as they can cut any dealer from their network regardless of what Apple or any other dealer thinks. | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | said by slckusr:You can be assured if the carriers try to limit the phones activation rights on their networks we will see some lawsuits. All that seemingly needs to be done at least from the snippet of the patent, is for carriers to choose not to participate in Apple's "best rate, competitive business model". Not too inconceivable IMO.said by slckusr:Basing your business model on controlling your customers ability for choice in a free market society might not be the best of ideas. It's actually a great idea, and is one of the main purposes of contracts. It happens in business all of the time, in many different markets. The need for contracts helps prove that competition actually exists. | |
|
| | | They could, but would they?
Out of any company that makes phones Apple is probably the only one who can actually get a phone company to do what they want. | |
| | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: US carriers can remove activation rights from Apple they the carriers would. Why not? They'd be losing money on this all the way around. The only way they would not lock Apple out is if they raise rates across the board or give apple a set list of rates. But I don't see Apple having its own rates unless it would become an MVNO. | |
|
| | Huh? I expect the US carriers to react much the same way the EU carriers did: Smack the hands of Apple. How dare you!
And Apple will quietly agree! | |
| Stumbles
join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL | Misleading At first glance I thought Apple was going to do something good. The term Universal threw me since that term and Apple certainly do not go hand-in-hand. To be more accurate the headline should read;
Apple Cooking up an even MORE proprietary piece of hardware | |
| | | Pro Consumer? Apple is always pro consumer as long as what they're trying to achieve is pro apple at the same time...
And that could very well mean pro apple and not necessarily pro industry. Hello DLNA... | |
| | | | Re: Pro Consumer? said by VansHSI:Apple is always pro consumer as long as what they're trying to achieve is pro apple at the same time...
And that could very well mean pro apple and not necessarily pro industry. Hello DLNA...
Except in this case the move is not pro consumer at all. It actually benefits Apple and the carriers. As a consumer if my choice of carrier isn't "Apple Approved" I can't put the phone on it, while today with a sim you can.
As to changing carriers now, assuming the phone is unlocked, all you have to do is get a different sim from any carrier. | |
|
 corsterPremium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC | Universal SIM i.e. you can only use it with the companies that are willing to pay us to be listed as carriers on the app store
--
Ontario can lead again - Tim Hudak in 2011
Save Canadian Internet - StopUBB.ca | |
| | | | | | said by corster:i.e. you can only use it with the companies that are willing to pay us to be listed as carriers on the app store
THIS. | |
|
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Verizon Wireless..
·Mediacom
| Maybe in Europe... ...Where they have a commission that actually does something. Here the lobbyists and congressmen with cash rolls in their pocket will make sure this type of technology NEVER makes it to market.
Carriers are up in arms about it and it's easy to see why. A great threat to the cash cow and rest assured they'll stop at nothing to bury this as quickly (and quietly) as possible. | |
| | | Google ? what you guys think ? isn't time for someone lets say like Google that have the cash to start building a network that is data only, voip and such, i mean all calls, text, voice, actual web data go through one pipe, unlimited voice, text and lets say 5GB to 10 GB of data, ideal would be unlimited lets say all this around $70 to $80 basically do away with the traditional wireless carriers. would it be possible ? | |
| |  TrimlinePremium
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL | Re: Google ? Couldn't agree with you more. I'm just waiting for them to announce this.. | |
| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Google will not build this mythical network that so many keep clamoring for. It's too much of an uphill battle, and the return for Google's advertising business is not sufficient. | |
| | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: Google ? That's not the reason Google won't build it. It's the fact that Google does NOT want to deal with its endusers. Instead they just want to collect your data so they can make more money when selling space to advertisers. Google proved that when they released the Nexus1 and all those issues. | |
|
| | I use verizon How about no stupid sim card to worry about? | |
| | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| Re: I use verizon said by kcomputer99:How about no stupid sim card to worry about?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Right.
I used an ATT iPhone on T-Mobile for $54/mo after tax. No call to T-Mobile.
I can use my Samsung Vibrant on ATT month to month. No call to ATT.
Tell me, can you use an EVO on Verizon?
Yep. Those SIM cards are really stupid. All that freedom to choose is just madness!
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
| | | | | Re: I use verizon said by tiger72:said by kcomputer99:How about no stupid sim card to worry about?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. I used an ATT iPhone on T-Mobile for $54/mo after tax. No call to T-Mobile. I can use my Samsung Vibrant on ATT month to month. No call to ATT. Tell me, can you use an EVO on Verizon? Yep. Those SIM cards are really stupid. All that freedom to choose is just madness! Except you won't get 3G with your iPhone on T-Mobile. And you did make a "call" to T-Mobile at one point to get the sim in the first place.
Flipside is most phones that use CDMA can be moved from Sprint to Vz and vice versa. | |
| | | | tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
| Re: I use verizon said by cmaenginsb:said by tiger72:said by kcomputer99:How about no stupid sim card to worry about?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. I used an ATT iPhone on T-Mobile for $54/mo after tax. No call to T-Mobile. I can use my Samsung Vibrant on ATT month to month. No call to ATT. Tell me, can you use an EVO on Verizon? Yep. Those SIM cards are really stupid. All that freedom to choose is just madness! Except you won't get 3G with your iPhone on T-Mobile. And you did make a "call" to T-Mobile at one point to get the sim in the first place. Flipside is most phones that use CDMA can be moved from Sprint to Vz and vice versa. 1. The iPhone is simply an example. And frankly, the phone still works just fine on ANY GSM carrier on the entire planet.
2. The T-Mobile SIM card I am using right now in my Vibrant is the same one I used in my iPhone (not sold by TMO), my G1, my w580i (not sold by TMO), my V330 (transferred from someone else off ebay), and numerous phones before that going back to ~2001. Same SIM card. No device activation fees. No calling T-Mobile to make sure the phone will work.
3. Which phones can be moved from Sprint to Verizon? The Evo?
How about from Verizon to Sprint? I haven't heard of Droids over on Sprint's network. Maybe you have some examples?
Both Sprint and Verizon require a phone to be branded by their own network before activation.
MOREOVER, they frequently charge activation fees on those phones.
I have a Sprint line and a TMO line. There's really little comparison between the two. I would *love* to get my girlfriend a Droid Incredible to use on Sprint, but alas I cannot. They won't activate the device.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
|
|  bencPremium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter
| said by kcomputer99:How about no stupid sim card to worry about?
Huh? SIM cards are generally a good thing for consumers. SIM cards, and SIM card slots need to adhere to a standard, so that (in theory, anyway) one may pull a SIM card out of any GSM phone, place it into another GSM phone, and start using the new phone right away. Or if a consumer is traveling internationally, he can use a different SIM attached to a prepaid account, saving on obscene roaming charges.
Now in practice, it's not that simple. AT&T reviews subscriber lines and automatically sign up customers for a data plan based on the phone used, regardless whether customers want it or not. T-Mobile uses non-standard 3G. GSM carriers worldwide "lock" phones so only their SIMs may be used, though nearly any mobile phone can be unlocked.
But the SIM card aspect is definitely an advantage over CDMA, at least the way VZW and Sprint have it implemented. With the way they do things, a phone must be "programmed" to use their network. Thus, for a phone to work on their networks, the company must explicitly support the device. This reduces customer choice. | |
| | | | Verizon now? No. But an LTE iPhone will require a SIM and any LTE phone for that matter. | |
|
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| No Thanks Apple has demonstrated for 27 years what they think of "competition" and "open" systems. I have no interest in turning my cellphone sovereignty over to them.
We have plenty of choice between carriers, without Steve Jobs "helping" us choose.
We are not Europe. Let's keep it that way. | |
| | tito79
join:2010-03-14
Carmel, NY | Re: No Thanks Sim cards are the past cdma phones will not need sim cards. | |
| | | | | Re: No Thanks said by tito79:Sim cards are the past cdma phones will not need sim cards.
Actually, CDMA is going to be the past soon, and the future for Verizon, AT&T, and many others is LTE which is a GSM based successor (and therefore WILL require SIM cards). I just don't get anyone who thinks the lack of a SIM card is beneficial. If you don't want to mess around with SIM cards or multiple carriers then just don't ever take the card out of the phone.
One really big benefit of SIM enabled phones (I mean the standard removable type) is traveling in another country where you can buy prepaid SIM cards for pretty cheap and get reasonable rates for outgoing calls. Also, incoming calls are usually free! I've used this at least a few times and it worked great. | |
|
| | | said by elray:We are not Europe. Let's keep it that way.
I live in a European country (Europe is a continent, so is the US now a continent too?), and frankly I'm glad we have the system we have.
Want to move networks? If your phone is not already unlocked so that it can be used on another network, either do it yourself or pay a small fee to the network you are with. Obtain a free prepay SIM card or take out a cheap, no-commitment SIM-only contract, insert SIM into phone, and bam. Done. It also helps that all networks use the same standards and the same bands.
In the US, you'll have to change phones, even when compatibility should not be an issue. You also get networks adding their own crap to phones or turning off features they don't want (sometimes re-enabling them for a fee), crap we don't have over here.
I have a Nexus One, bought outright for a modest fee. I am using it on the network of my choice, and I pay about $40/mo for 900 minutes, unlimited text messages, and 500MB internet. Not the best deal, but it's fine for me. If the network I am with gets uppity I can change in a heartbeat. | |
|
| | If this would truly turn carriers until to the dumb pipes they should be, I'm all for it. However, I doubt that will happen and "universal" will be another name for "apple approved carriers". | |
|
| |
|
|
