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Apple: Don't Expect the AppleSIM in iPhones Anytime Soon

For a moment there Apple's new AppleSIM -- which allows iPad users to easily compare plans and switch carriers without swapping out the SIM -- looked like it might be immensely disruptive. It becomes less impressive once you notice that Verizon isn't supporting the technology at all and AT&T is preventing it from working as intended. While in an ideal world Apple would extend this technology to the iPhone, that's apparently not happening either.

Speaking this week at Re/code's Code/Mobile conference, Apple marketing VP Greg Joswiak stated they won't be including it in the iPhone, but his justification for why is a little thin:
quote:
Joswiak said Apple has not discussed putting the Apple SIM into iPhones, but said that because of the way most customers buy an iPhone--through a carrier directly--the Apple SIM is not as well suited. "I don't think you're going to go to the Verizon store and say, 'Can you hook me up with AT&T?,'" he said.
However, even if you buy a phone from a carrier, being able to switch carriers at a later date without swapping the SIM card would be a great thing. Apple's likely trying to avoid aggravating carriers on this front though it's not clear why: Apple is the one with the "must have" product, and as AT&T illustrates, carriers may just block the technology from working anyway. A more flexible SIM would mean easier, smoother cross-carrier competition, and that's something incumbent operators simply can't tolerate.
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topics flat nest 

josephf
join:2009-04-26

1 recommendation

josephf

Member

AppleSIM is overrated

It isn't that big a deal to simply swap out the SIM card to another carrier, the infrequent times most people change carriers. Even if it is a bit more frequent, swapping SIM cards isn't rocket science. As long as it is unlocked and allows swapping SIM cards to change carriers, not having one SIM compatible with multiple carriers is really no big deal.
sparek
join:2002-06-10
united state

sparek

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

Yea, I've had trouble understanding why this is such a big deal. How many times per day (or per week, or per month) do people typically switch carriers?

The only potential "good" thing I could see from this, is if Apple were to become a kind of pseudo MVNO, where in they operate on whatever network is available and cheaper at any given time. For example, you might be in one part of town or the country where T-Mobile service is good and it's cheaper, so your iPad Internet connection is based on T-mobile. You travel to another part of town or another part of the country, T-Mobile no longer works, so it switches you to AT&T's network. The consumer doesn't pay T-Mobile or AT&T for Internet, instead they pay Apple to be a middle-man in providing Internet access for the device. (I say "good" because I'm not sure if such a great idea to have Apple act as the middleman).

That's the only potential gain I can see from this (and as I understand it, this is not how the Apple SIM works). Otherwise, this Apple SIM makes little sense to me.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

The issue isn't w/ the UICC (SIM) per se, but if you want to go to other operators and more importantly a prepaid carrier. For lots of prepaid carriers, one has to play tricks (SIM swap method) to get basic stuff like MMS, etc working because the carriers lock that down with implicit help from Apple.

They KNOW there is a push for people to buy retail, so if people start noticing that prepaid is much cheaper or say an app that searches for the best carrier, then a soft-UICC would make it MUCH easier to move out of a juicy postpaid plan, and now the gravy train is over. In fact say you are in altoona, Pa on Verizon and take a trip to Dallas where Tmobile has better coverage and price. Why couldn't you just "pay per use", and that way carrier coverage gaps are handled by the software and billing systems--Think Apple Pay. Don't think that they haven't thought about that money stream...

The incompatibility between LTE bands and support have bought them 4-5 years but now the chipsets can handle the bands and no longer is a radio limitation an issue anymore. Now they have to deal with "universal" hardware and since Apple controls the O/S that means they would have to actually compete and not wall off. Not a good situation for margins.

This move is purely to make it MORE difficult to move, not less. It's not about chipsets anymore, it's about clinging to control, and margins.

MovieLover76
join:2009-09-11
Cherry Hill, NJ
(Software) pfSense
Asus RT-AC68
Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

Yea I kind of agree, we're not talking about the type of people who go to this site for whom swapping a sim card is second nature. Average people don't switch and have no idea if their device is unlocked or what carrier's it could work on, a soft sim could make all of that easy. imagine an app that identified your phone, what carriers it could work on and started the porting process and transfer for you. Of course that's kind of a pie in the sky dream the carriers would raise hell about that.
It's about making the average user liable to switch, though in all honesty the same could probably be accomplished with a stronger unlocked device market.
Maybe now that devices that support all carriers are showing up Nexus 6 for instance and service discounts for buying phones at full price we might get a little closer to that.

TuxRaiderPen2
Make America Great Again
join:2009-09-19

TuxRaiderPen2 to elefante72

Member

to elefante72
said by elefante72:
In fact say you are in altoona, Pa on Verizon and take a trip to Dallas where Tmobile has better coverage.


Thanks for the chuckle ..... tmetro with better coverage.



Just try the reverse in the Laurel Highlands and see what kind of a pink brick you've got!


IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan to josephf

Member

to josephf
Oh really? It's convenient when travelling internationally to have a choice of data service options right on your iPad from the moment you land without having to hunt around town for a SIM card and a plan at a reasonable price.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

said by IPPlanMan:

Oh really? It's convenient when travelling internationally to have a choice of data service options right on your iPad from the moment you land without having to hunt around town for a SIM card and a plan at a reasonable price.

But you don't have that choice. The only international carrier on Apple SIM is EE in the UK. So, if you want to use a different UK carrier, you're swapping SIMs. If you go anywhere else in the world, you're swapping SIMs. If you want to use a prepaid account that isn't a partner of Apple's, you're swapping SIMs.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

2 recommendations

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

The iPhone first started out as an AT&T exclusive device in the United States....
Now look at it. It's global on hundreds of carriers.

Give things time. More carriers will come on board for Apple SIM when they realize it's in their interest to serve their customer's needs. Jeeez.

Majestik
World Traveler
Premium Member
join:2001-05-11
Tulsa, OK

Majestik to mixdup

Premium Member

to mixdup
Don't need to swap sims when traveling the world. I keep a prepaid global sim in my iPad. Rarely use it though unless I have to list and creat a ticket/boarding pass on an airline. Prefer the free wifi with VPN.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup to josephf

Member

to josephf
Yeah, I agree. I don't get the publicity about Apple SIM. Swapping cards isn't a gigantic burden, and people don't change carriers that often. I mean, it's great technology and obviously fewer moving parts is better and is where we're headed, but I just don't see how it's "game changing". Carrier policies are what prevent people from switching. This is just a very nice SKU management technique for Apple since they have so many varying models now.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 recommendation

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

Of course it's game changing. Carriers will compete at the point of sale on a data-enabled device. That's very pro-consumer.

AT&T locking the Apple SIM is anti-consumer.
Verizon not participating.... well, we'll see how long they can keep that up.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

said by IPPlanMan:

Of course it's game changing. Carriers will compete at the point of sale on a data-enabled device. That's very pro-consumer.

AT&T locking the Apple SIM is anti-consumer.
Verizon not participating.... well, we'll see how long they can keep that up.

But they already do. You can already pick from any carrier when you buy your iPad, and the iPads are sold unlocked so you can put any SIM in it you want at any time you want.

And people are most likely to tie their tablet to whatever carrier their phone is on, anyway. How many people are going to get an AT&T data plan for their tablet if their phone is on Sprint?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

You're missing the point. This is a pro-consumer move by Apple.

Plenty of people have a tablet on different carrier than their phone. Redundancy for one reason.

I think that because the Apple SIM doesn't support that many carriers yet, people are in a tizzy....

One can remember back when the iPhone was exclusive and locked to AT&T and everyone thought it would fail...

Time proved otherwise.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

2 recommendations

djrobx to josephf

Premium Member

to josephf
said by josephf:

It isn't that big a deal to simply swap out the SIM card to another carrier, the infrequent times most people change carriers. Even if it is a bit more frequent, swapping SIM cards isn't rocket science. As long as it is unlocked and allows swapping SIM cards to change carriers, not having one SIM compatible with multiple carriers is really no big deal.

People don't do it often now because it's not convenient, it requires a trip to the store, and carriers charge for the chip.

Driving to blockbuster to rent movies wasn't a "big deal" either, but times change once people experience a better alternative.

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

said by djrobx:

said by josephf:

It isn't that big a deal to simply swap out the SIM card to another carrier, the infrequent times most people change carriers. Even if it is a bit more frequent, swapping SIM cards isn't rocket science. As long as it is unlocked and allows swapping SIM cards to change carriers, not having one SIM compatible with multiple carriers is really no big deal.

People don't do it often now because it's not convenient, it requires a trip to the store, and carriers charge for the chip.

Driving to blockbuster to rent movies wasn't a "big deal" either, but times change once people experience a better alternative.

I can call right now, at 1PM Central, order a SIM from AT&T or Verizon, and it will be on my doorstep tomorrow by noon. It's not *that* big of a hassle to get a new SIM.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

1 recommendation

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: AppleSIM is overrated

Can you do that from a plane on the tarmac and receive it to your device?
How about from a foreign airport/location?
There are plenty of situations where you can't get a SIM, but need to have access.
The Apple SIM is perfect for that.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

1 recommendation

Kearnstd to djrobx

Premium Member

to djrobx
said by djrobx:

Driving to blockbuster to rent movies wasn't a "big deal" either, but times change once people experience a better alternative.

Yep, Getting there on a friday night and finding out the new releases are long gone...

Or just Comcast On-Demand our BBV days ended before Netflix. VOD services and eventually the red envelopes and made BBV pointless.

tommyanon
@50.243.146.x

tommyanon

Anon

iPhone should ship with no sim at all

personally i would prefer if all unlocked iphones/ipads were sold without any sim included at all, i also do not want to provide any carrier with an IMEI number. a SIM card with service and a hardware device should be two separate things that work when put together.

we need to have carterfone rules applied to mobile,

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: iPhone should ship with no sim at all

said by tommyanon :

personally i would prefer if all unlocked iphones/ipads were sold without any sim included at all, i also do not want to provide any carrier with an IMEI number. a SIM card with service and a hardware device should be two separate things that work when put together.

we need to have carterfone rules applied to mobile,

Agreed. That "ideal" never really saw the light of day in the US. AT&T perfected the art of sensing what hardware you were connecting with shortly before the debut of the iPhone.

It was scary at the time, since you were supposed to buy a ridiculously expensive PDA data plan if you purchased a "smartphone", which offered no real benefit over the regular unlimited data plan that was less than half the price. I knew so many people breaking that "rule", and AT&T had figured out how to identify all of them.

Now if you try and stick a "voice only" AT&T SIM into an iPhone, you'll immediately start getting nasty-grams about needing to switch to an iPhone data plan. Which stinks, since a lot of people would be fine with voice-only + wifi.


driveby
@108.27.116.x

driveby

Anon

"must have"

"Apple is the one with the "must have" product" — Not any more and by a long shot. There are several better phones available with better operating systems in the market today.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

1 recommendation

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: "must have"

Alternatives are a great thing, but Apple sold 10 million iPhone 6's the first weekend. It's still very much a sought-after product.

driveby
@108.27.116.x

driveby

Anon

Re: "must have"

"sought-after" is not "must have"

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

We invented it...

... now we have to bury it so nobody can use it.

Flyonthewall
@206.248.154.x

Flyonthewall

Anon

Re: We invented it...

How many other tech advances have been buried by other corporate giants because it would disrupt their stranglehold or force them to lose market-share or profits? History is replete with such evidence. Does not even matter if it's good for consumers or would make the world a better place even (not in this case, but check out the history of electric cars), companies only really care about their bottom line and their shareholders.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA

spewak

Premium Member

In line already

I am in line already for an iWatch! Must have.....

ev
@74.140.91.x

ev

Anon

Om nom nom

Wonder what's stopping aapl from swallowing a tier-1 US carrier whole. Would make more sense than Beats...
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: Om nom nom

I think a big issue is the carrier Apple is most in bed with is AT&T and the only cell company they could even afford is T-Mobile.

AT&T is way too large because remember AT&T is also a huge wireline operation, They also run backbone services globally on both fiber optics and space based resources. And Apple is flush with cash, I imagine buying any carrier would make them flush with debt

Also the regulators might take issue because at that point what would stop Apple from preventing non Apple devices from working on iCellular.

tmh
@173.13.197.x

tmh

Anon

Are Apple devotees really that clueless?

It isn't very had to simply swap SIMs.

Al

baseskizl
@66.62.118.x

baseskizl

Anon

Apple sim will not work on iPhone

I see two reasons for this one: Apple does not want to tick off it's biggest distributor aka AT&T, by not being able to lock the sim cards for subsidized devices. If you buy an iPhone on contract you don't want your customer going to another carrier. Two: With the Apple sim AT&T automatically locks the phone to it's network so you would have to get it unlocked to go to another carrier i.e. see problem one.