  KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP We need to reform class action law. I won't comment on Apple's changing of the data plans, but suing over an antenna is ridiculous. New products have bugs to be worked out--a class action lawsuit just means pennies for consumers, millions for the lawyers, and hurts the company whose products you buy.
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All the wealthy, unhappy people you've ever met take sleeping pills; Mobile Infantrymen don't need them. Give a cap trooper a bunk and time to sack out in it, and he's as happy as a worm in an apple—asleep. | |
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 |  dellsweigExtreme AerobaticsPremium,MVM
join:2003-12-10
Campbell Hall, NY
kudos:1
 ·Vonage
| Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP How does this qualify as a Tort case?
Tort reform refers to proposed changes in the civil justice system that would reduce tort litigation or damages. Tort is a system for compensating wrongs and harm done by one party to another's person, property or other protected interests (e.g. reputation, under libel and slander laws). Tort reform advocates focus on personal injury in particular.
Traditionally, Tort Reform (in the US) referes to damages awarded in medical malpractice where the plantiff is harmed.
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Nothin' left to do but smile smile smile  | |
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| | KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:3 | Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP Good point, I should drink my coffee before I post. I meant general legal reform... in this case, concerning class action lawsuits. :P | |
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| |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·voip.ms
| said by dellsweig:How does this qualify as a Tort case? Just because you have a preconceived notion of what the word "tort" means doesn't make it right. It has a very specific meaning in the law, and it isn't limited to medical malpractice. Liability for defective products certainly falls into the category of tort law. | |
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|  Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Class action reform is simple...you should have to OPT IN to an action, not OPT OUT particularly since opting out usually is impeded hoops of letter writing and digging up addresses.
I have an iPhone 4, have no issues with the antenna, but supposedly I would be one of the "harmed" in the class. Some lawyer is making the claim that I was damaged unless I say in writing that I wasn't. It's B.S.
There are people legitimately pissed about the iPhone antenna. There are people legitimately pissed about the bait and switch iPad plan crap but those people should have to sign up to be represented. They should have to give their name, address with a statement about how they were damaged just like anyone filing their own small claims suit would.
That would end a lot of class actions overnight.
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"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008. | |
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| | | | Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP Maybe the reception issue depends on which frequency is being used. You could be fine, while others elsewhere, on other frequencies, have problems | |
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| | | | You don't know a lot about class actions do you? They are most certainly opt-in already. Although the lawyers claim to represent everyone, the class is composed of ONLY those who sign an affidavit saying they are a participating member. I've had class-action paper work sent my way about 2 dozen times and only in a few rare cases did I actually join the class.
In most (99%) class action settlements the payout is determined by the number of participants. In effect if the lawyers can't get enough people to sign up they don't get paid as much (they could get paid less than what they spent). There are also thresholds, where if a certain number of people don't sign up the class is dissolved and the suit dismissed. Really you should learn more about it before you criticize the system.
Class actions are societies only effective way to get large financial entities to change something (small torts, false advertising, etc) that costs to little individually to make it cost effective to sue individually. The vast majority of Class action suits improve the situation for consumers (stop fraud, bad engineering, unethical policies), sure there are a few that a just silly garbage. But if you tracked those silly garbage complaints you would find out many are tossed from the courts before settlement is ever reached. Have you ever looked at the number of class action suits you benefited from? | |
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| | | Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
2 edits | Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP I know plenty about class actions and EVERY ONE I have been involved in was opt out.
Show me some that were exclusively opt in, where the class member had to actually sign up and submit their problems before being included.
Opt out class actions are horseshit. Damages are paid to people and on behalf of people who weren't damaged, all to enrich a couple of bloodsucking lawyers.
Damages should be paid ONLY to those verifiably damaged and affirm their desire to be included in the action.
Meanwhile I have NEVER benefitted from a class action I was roped in to, whether it was the mortgage company, cable company, car company...doesn't matter. The only ones who ever benefit in any appreciable way are the stupid lawyers.
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"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP Have to agree here somewhat. I just received a letter from a class action about Expedia since I had booked travel sometime in the past 5 years. I never signed up with the class but will get a whopping $2.80 credit on my next travel purchase. Wow, can't wait to use that!!! | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by Krisnatharok:We need to reform class action law. I won't comment on Apple's changing of the data plans, but suing over an antenna is ridiculous. How dare people who shell out $200-400 for a smart phone actually expect it to work when they hold it in their hand. The nerve of some people!
New products have bugs to be worked out--a class action lawsuit just means pennies for consumers, millions for the lawyers, and hurts the company whose products you buy. Depends on what the settlement comes out to be. If it allows users to use their phone after a hardware replacement or software fix, isn't that what owners would really want? | |
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| | | | Re: Kershaw, Cutter & Ratinoff, LLP I shelled out $50 for a smart phone (last year's model) and it works. On VZW.
"Who's the more foolish...the fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-wan Kenobi
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Splat | |
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|  ArchAngel21xWaiting For iPhone 5Premium
join:2001-10-28
Lincoln, NE
 ·Internet Nebraska
| said by Krisnatharok:I won't comment on Apple's changing of the data plans ATT changed the data plan.
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MacBook Pro 2.6 Ghz (Snow Leopard) iPod Touch 64 Gig (3rd Gen) & iPad Touch 16 Gig Wifi only (1st Gen) | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T DSL Service
| I would agree--- If they agreed to let you return the Iphone for a new one or a refund. IE like a recall. If not, if they won't let you out of contract or whatever, then by all means, Class action time.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | hmm This is not a hardware problem. i had the same exact touch bottom problem with my iphone 3gs after the ios4 update.
also the ios4 update started making my phone shut off and take pictures and everything all by itself. since 3.1.3 is still signed i cant even downgrade to the earlier os yet. | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE Maybe a good class action lawsuit is what Apple needs to get Steve Jobs to wake up -- I mean, people are complaining about an issue and your response is, "You're holding it wrong."
Had any other CEO of any other company responded like that, for instance, Steve Balmer, people would be out there with torches and pitchforks, but we must remember, these are people from the cult of Apple. If Steve Jobs tells them to drink koolaid laced with polonium, they would gladly do it.
Maybe this will wake them up. Apple has claimed before, to fix reception issues with patches. It is my understanding people are still waiting for the iPad wifi reception patch. | |
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|  DarkLogixPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | Re: RE or if Steve told them to drink cyanide-laced grape Flavor Aid | |
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| | | | Re: RE I think if anything it would be laced apple juice | |
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guppy_fishPremium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| kool aide Tell me its isn't so ... the all mighty iphone4 is just the 21st century version of snake oil?
nan ... just gotta go drink some more of the apple kool-aide and all will be better | |
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|  spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
·SureWest Internet
 ·Clear Wireless
| Re: kool aide said by guppy_fish:Tell me its isn't so ... the all mighty iphone4 is just the 21st century version of snake oil? nan ... just gotta go drink some more of the apple kool-aide and all will be better First, you have to wait in line to drink that kool-aid! 
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!
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| | | | Re: kool aide said by spewak:said by guppy_fish:Tell me its isn't so ... the all mighty iphone4 is just the 21st century version of snake oil? nan ... just gotta go drink some more of the apple kool-aide and all will be better First, you have to wait in line to drink that kool-aid! You can always cut the wait and pre-order your drink | |
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| | | atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | Re: kool aide Never mind, I retract my statement. Steve Jobs would go the way of Cinderella and give everyone a poison, half eaten (like the apple logo) apple. | |
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|  DreadR.I.P JazzyPremium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
kudos:6
·Optimum Online
| said by guppy_fish:Tell me its isn't so ... the all mighty iphone4 is just the 21st century version of snake oil? nan ... just gotta go drink some more of the apple kool-aide and all will be better Careful you may offend the cult of apple here at dslreports lol.
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Assuming Direct Control. | |
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 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
1 edit | 600 Hours of Fart sounds That is what I feel about this class action lawsuit just some excrement coated law firm seeing a chance to extract some cash from Apple, nothing more. | |
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| | | Re: 600 Hours of Fart sounds said by Transmaster:That is what I feel about this class action lawsuit just some excrement coated law firm seeing a chance to extract some cash from Apple, nothing more. Oh c'mon now, we all know that this law firm really and truly cares about us citizens | |
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1 edit | I don't understand... Regarding the iPhone 4...
Why would ya sue if you can return the product if ya don't like it? I mean, get your money back if you don't like it.
I don't have one and I don't want one, 'specially cause I'm left handed and typically don't use a case. But if you bought it and don't like it, then return it for heaven's sake. | |
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| | | Re: I don't understand... said by bostonkarl1:Regarding the iPhone 4... Why would ya sue if you can return the product if ya don't like it? I mean, get your money back if you don't like it. I don't have one and I don't want one, 'specially cause I'm left handed and typically don't use a case. But if you bought it and don't like it, then return it for heaven's sake. Don't forget that "Restocking" fee.... | |
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| | iSEPIC
join:2001-04-17
Las Vegas, NV | Re: I don't understand... There is no restocking fee if it is defective. | |
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| | |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: I don't understand... said by iSEPIC:There is no restocking fee if it is defective. Well, Apple says it *isn't* defective ("you're holding it wrong"), so you'll be paying the restocking fee. | |
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| | | | | | Re: I don't understand... said by 56403739:said by iSEPIC:There is no restocking fee if it is defective. Well, Apple says it *isn't* defective ("you're holding it wrong"), so you'll be paying the restocking fee. I don't and won't own an iPhone. I am however of the mind that a lawsuit is absolutely appropriate in this case.
You're dealing with a couple of dynamics here.
1: All of the pre-advertisements talked about "unlimited" data. Once the phone was in its release phases they changed the plans up to remove the "unlimited". That's referred to as bait and switch and is illegal.
2: The advertisements also mentioned that the iPhone 4 was to have "improved" signal strength. Given this defect of where you hold the phone, I find that to be false advertisement.
3: Jobs saying "You're holding it wrong" blames the customers and negates the ability to return it as defective when it IS defective; therefore, you're forced to pay the restock fee if you want to return it, money you lose yet are still taxed on for no tangible product. That's not only bait and switch, it's also theft by coercion.
4: To prevent the antenna issue you're forced to use a $30 accessory. That would be like buying a car brand new from the dealer that can't hold a battery charge, and the dealer says you have to buy a $200 portable charger to jump it with. NO; that is unacceptable.
I absolutely support suing in this case, if for nothing else than to send a message to Apple that they need to get wise about this device. FIX THE ISSUE, stop blaming the customers, and take responsibility. Waive ALL restock fees for devices returned, issue a recall and swap them out at YOUR expense.
Apple won't do that - so a lawsuit will make them do it. | |
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| | What is Really Needed If the iphony 4 or any other device is truly defective then the legal system should force the maker/seller to fix it. I, or any other user or technology, should get what we pay for and not be paid hush money via a lawyer and judge.
I, for one, would like to see a technology court set up in the US to deal with type of matter. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Yet Another Pointless Lawsuit
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"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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 TechieZeroTools Are Using MePremium
join:2002-01-25
Gibsonton, FL
·Verizon FiOS
| Give them free Bumpers From what I heard the antenna issue is solved by using a rubber bumper around the phone which is a $30 option.
Apple needs to hand these out for free and eat the cost.
There are other issues too,
»tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/28/···android/ | |
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|  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: Give them free Bumpers free? eat the cost? Apple? they will not. they will make more on suckers paying $30 for a piece of $0.25 rubber than it will cost them for the lawsuit. | |
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| | | Quick fix options:
1 - Rubber Bumper = $30
2 - Rubber BAND = $0.03
Both work equally well. | |
|
 en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Overblown People have 30 days to try out the device, and return it to the manufacturer for 'issues'. Personally, I'd have a case anyways - a couple of drops and this expensive device is toast.
If you don't like it, don't buy it... Apple/AT&T will respond quickly if their market dries up.
'Weak signals' from a wireless device doesn't always mean that the device is not functional.
If a device has a weak (or no signal) indication, and calls work as expected, does that show any harm outside of a metering bug? | |
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|  NYR 56Premium
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY | Re: Overblown said by en102:People have 30 days to try out the device, and return it to the manufacturer for 'issues'. Personally, I'd have a case anyways - a couple of drops and this expensive device is toast. I agree that a lawsuit is pointless and the people who bought this thing should just return it if they're not happy - just like any electronic device. Of course, what the other poster said about Nintendo and the Wii is very true. Apples should definitely handle this better.
As for the case issue, it seems these "amazing" iPhones are the only phones that have that problem. I've been using smartphones for years without a case and I drop them at least a few times a month, sometimes from 5 feet onto a road. Every phone I've had never broke from dropping, aside from getting a bit scratched up. My friends iPhones, however, constantly have shattered screens and other problems. Maybe Apple should make these things more durable (then again, people buy them no matter what, so why bother). | |
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Reviews:
·voip.ms
| Anyone remember when the Wii was released? and within days were the reports of people losing their grip on the WiiMote during gameplay and causing injury because initally it was sold without the rubberized sleeve?
Nintendo's response was the right one, send people the appropriate sleeve and produce the Wiimotes from that point on bundled with the sleeve.
Apple's response so far has been so wrong in comparision that its not even funny 
NefCanuck | |
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| | Poor Reception Quality?? Are you kidding me? iPhones are killing the ATT network. I was in San Francisco for a a parade a few days ago along with 300,000 other people and I couldn't get a connection to make a simple phone call on my two year old 3G flip phone.
You millions of iPhone users cry and whine because your precious iPhone won't connect..... What about the rest of us?
If ATT would let other carriers handle the iPhone and now the iPad then there would be less congestion on the ATT service and we could all get a connection.
Boy wait until the next disaster hits. There will be millions of people trying to use ATT. Forget it! | |
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| | | Re: Poor Reception Quality?? So STOP USING AT&T! Why would you stay with a carrier that simply does not work for you?
Sprint works the best for me, and it's far cheaper.
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-Sterling | |
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| |  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 | Re: Poor Reception Quality?? Precisely, switch carriers. | |
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| | With my iPhone 4 I am NOT able to reproduce the reception issue, in fact I get better reception with my 4 than I ever did with my 3G.
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When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. | |
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| 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: With my iPhone 4 AT&T has 3G service in Tornado, WV?
I can maybe believe it if you'd said Hurricane, but Tornado? Really? | |
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| | | | Re: With my iPhone 4 Yes we do. | |
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| | 30 day return policy? There is still a 30 day return policy in effect for anyone that bought this phone on day one.
So how can a class action lawsuit be formed when there is a way to get your money back on this?
You don't have to own the iPhone 4, and they will gladly refund your money within 30 days of purchase. Depending on where you bought it from, even without a restocking fee. And since this is technically a defect, they really can't do the restocking fee nonsense anyway.
So what exactly is the complaint here? You can get your money back, how can you sue beyond that?
Ridiculous. | |
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| | 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: 30 day return policy? They're all crybabies. Waah waah waah my new Jesusphone doesn't work the way Snoop Jobby Jobs promised me it would.
Waah waah waah.
The whole lot of them need to get a life. | |
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| | Service BAD!!! Why buy it If the service is bad, why buy the phone in the first place. Lawsuit only benefits the hungry lawyers and you only get pennies. | |
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|  GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: Service BAD!!! Why buy it It's about behavior modification, not the money (as to how the consumer benefits). I don't get all you people that don't seem to understand that simple concept. | |
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| | | | Re: Service BAD!!! Why buy it But it is still within the 30 day return policy window.
What better behavior modification is the bottom line?
When thousands of people return these phones within the 30 day return window, that is a big hit to the bottom line.
No one should be making class action lawsuits when the return policy is still in effect.
This isn't like Microsoft with the RROD problem showing up a year or 2 after people bought them. This is a problem seen in the first day of ownership, and can be easily remedied by trying to exchange the phone within the 30 days, and see if the problem is gone, or just get your money back.
Why would a lawsuit be needed at this particular time to modify behavior? | |
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| | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: Service BAD!!! Why buy it I won't argue any of those points because I agree. In that context, I don't understand it either. I'm the one that didn't get your initial line of thinking. Sorry. | |
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 gballMaster YodaPremium
join:2000-11-28
South Bend, IN | ummmm doesn't Apple just make cameras? I didn't know they made phones. | |
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 JohnInSJPremium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·PHONE POWER
·Comcast
| looking for suckers... to create a class so they can sue. The firm would make a huge amount of money, and the class will get 5c bumpers for free.
America. Land of the free. Why is the headline about a POSSIBLE iPhone lawsuit, but the lead of the story is about an iPad lawsuit?
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My place : »www.schettino.us | |
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|  DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:70
·AT&T Southwest
 ·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·Google Voice
| Re: looking for suckers... said by JohnInSJ:to create a class so they can sue. The firm would make a huge amount of money, and the class will get 5c bumpers for free. yep I can't quite figure it out... two options.
1.) return the phone within 30 days and get your money back!
or
2.) keep the phone and hope you get a settlement from the class action.
which one makes you more money?
truthfully I think the law firm is looking for fools, and the fools who follow them!
said by JohnInSJ:America. Land of the free. Why is the headline about a POSSIBLE iPhone lawsuit, but the lead of the story is about an iPad lawsuit? Nobody said there had to be honesty and integrity in reporting/blogging. Fox News is a prime example of this daily. Even this site has been a prime example before.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
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| |  DaarkenRara AvisesPremium
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA
kudos:1 | Re: looking for suckers... All of the major media sours do the same thing, so don't just point your finger out at fox.
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Getting it Done. | |
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| | | | the lawyers as well as apple know a large percentage of their fanbase who bought them on day one are fools anyway. they worship apple like diluded michael jackson fans thats why the lawyers are preying on them | |
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| | gotta sue all manufacturers then Well if you gonna sue Apple then gotta sue every other cell phone manufacturer because like Apple says all phones have reception issues depending on how you hold it if your blocking its antenna..
I have the new iPhone 4 and have yet to be able to reproduce this problem.. | |
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