  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | So, this problem already existed? Why are previous versions of the iPhone not affected by handling then? | |
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 | | | Re: So, this problem already existed? They are. | |
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| | | | Re: So, this problem already existed? So the Iphone mis-reports signal strength? All previous Iphones mis-report signal strenght? WTF? They've been misleading their customers this long and only now admit to it? And if it's just mis-reporting signal strength then why would it drop calls when held a certain way? That doesn't make any sense at all unless they're just trying to dodge a hardware design flaw to avoid a recall. Very bad! | |
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| | |  BloodRosesAeolus, your daughter flies.Premium
join:2003-03-17
Louisville, KY | Re: So, this problem already existed? said by elshagon:So the Iphone mis-reports signal strength? In a sense, all phones do. It is just an indicator, it's loosely based off RSSI but different phones use different measurements and display the information differently. In short, the signal bars are idiot lights. Nothing more, nothing less. Signal strength has absolutely no bearing on the quality of said signal. That is to say, if you have a signal and the call connection is completed then AT&T's job is done.
Second, being an owner of the iPhone 4 I have witnessed the indicator behaving in the manner described, however at no point has holding it that way dropped a call or decreased quality of said call, or interrupted any data connection. In the end, I just simply don't care what the bars say. They're meaningless to me.
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Фея благословення,
Стефанія | |
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| | | dagg
join:2001-03-25
Galt, CA | said by elshagon: That doesn't make any sense at all unless they're just trying to dodge a hardware design flaw to avoid a recall. DING DING DING!!!
winner!!! | |
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| | | |  rtcyFACTS only pleasePremium
join:1999-10-16
Norwalk, CA | Re: So, this problem already existed? IOW they are going to cover up a design flaw in the antenna/hardware , and just show you better bars(software) and tell you it's all in your head | |
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| | | | Yes they are, odd thing is I am NOT able to reproduce the issue on my iPhone 4 but I am able to reproduce the issue on my old 3g.
Also this is only after the iOS 4 update, so I would have to say software, and poor coverage is to blame for all this but I tend to blame software more.
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When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| said by SLD:Why are previous versions of the iPhone not affected by handling then? The problem that previously existed is that they have been misreporting the signal strength. The issue with having to hold it a particular way isn't being fixed...and really is what the ultimate problem is.
People just like to feel good. It doesn't matter if they can't actually make a call, as long as they have More Bars in More Places™ they are happy. Apple is just trying to explain why they won't have bars now. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | So in other words, we're gonna patch the software to tell you you have signal bars when your reception actually sucks. | |
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| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: So, this problem already existed? Actually, the opposite: we'll tell you when your signal sucks, rather than not doing so. Get ready for a bunch of AT&T coverage complaints! | |
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| | Well...... Nuff said, I guess....  | |
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| |
 IIIBradIIIComm M-E-L Instr
join:2000-09-28
Greer, SC
 ·T-Mobile US
| They'll issue a patch alright... All they'll do is issue a patch that reduces the refresh rate of the signal meter, so your signal meter won't update often enough to tell if your hand is the cause or not. If they're smart they'll only lower that refresh/update rate when the signal degrades and keep the high refresh/update rate for signal increases, further obfuscating things. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: They'll issue a patch alright... Right. We're not going to fix the problem, we're simply going to make the problem less obvious TO SEE.
The old perception is reality.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| |  AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| Re: They'll issue a patch alright... said by KrK:Right. We're not going to fix the problem, we're simply going to make the problem less obvious TO SEE. The old perception is reality. Also, we're going to make it so ATT looks like the bad guy not us.
Welcome to Apple.
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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| | I suspected... ...Apple would attempt to 'fix' this by simply changing the way the bars are calculated. That's not going to help dropped calls by holding it the wrong way. | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: I suspected... said by xenophon:...Apple would attempt to 'fix' this by simply changing the way the bars are calculated. That's not going to help dropped calls by holding it the wrong way. No it won't. But it will shift a lot of the heat to AT&T and away from Apple. All the iPhones will now show signal strengths considerably lower(with fewer bars) than before. And with AT&T's rep for a bad network, more people will blame AT&T and not Apple.
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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| |
1 edit | Re: I suspected... Someone set up Apple the Verizon Bomb.
Will make for an easy departure to other networks I would assume. 
But this isn't really surprising. I see 4 bars of signal almost exclusively on my Moto Droid, but I always see the same crappy 200-600kbps 500ms pings everywhere I go. You definitely cannot rely on bars on newer phones I believe. Before I got into the smartphone game, my dumbphones were always at 1 or 2 bars, and the service reflected that. | |
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| | |
1 edit | Re: I suspected... ^Load on the tower may be the issue, even if close enough to get all bars. Or there may be more interference where you are. | |
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| | | | | | Re: I suspected... I do believe my area is in need of some major upgrading. But I was mainly pointing out how dumbphones in the area always show half of the signal I see on my Droid. I feel like I'm being lied too in order to look better, haha. | |
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| | | | | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Re: I suspected... *shrugs* The Droid I've got (2.1 FWIW) displays a number of bars commensurate to the quality of the VoIP call (64 kbps PCM) and/or data session that I'm holding, though speed is another matter; I might get 500 kbps or 2000 kbps depending on what city I'm near. | |
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| | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | I suspected software anyways - as I saw 'full bars' at -103dBm on the iPhone 3GS. | |
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| | | SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Maybe Apple patented the "smartphone bars calculation" formula so all devices must use it  | |
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 BrazbitPremium
join:2003-10-22
Port Orchard, WA | More Bars In More Places Well... That is one way to live up to the old claim. | |
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 hello123454Delaware FIOSPremium
join:2002-02-02
Wilmington, DE
kudos:1 | Testing? It always boggles my mind how these things happen...is there even a test phase for this device? Wouldn't something like this be obvious, and if not obvious be something at least they check for? I don't understand where all these millions of dollars go towards.. | |
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|  DarkLogixPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | Re: Testing? the millions go towards setting up a Scrooge Mcduck style money bin for steve jobs | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | There was a test phase for this, remember? .... but the guy testing one of the phones was too busy down at the pub drinking and lost his test device... | |
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| | SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: Testing? I think the product release *was* the test phase. Par for the course... | |
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| | | | | Re: Testing? said by SLD:I think the product release *was* the test phase. Par for the course... I thought that was Apple's testing strategy - let the early adopters be the testers. And Apple knows that it doesn't matter if they put out a malfunctioning product, people will still buy it. | |
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| | | | The whole reason he set it down was because he kept losing signal and couldn't use the damn thing.
This is what drove him to go to the pub and drink anyway. | |
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| | |  japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
1 edit | Re: Testing? said by Skippy25:This is what drove him to go to the pub and drink anyway. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | |
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| | I don't buy it That still does not explain why the signal strength goes down when you hold the damn phone. They are just making excuses to buy and are making it look like they are doing something about but they are really not. IMHO I believe it is a manufacture/design issue and Apple does not want to ruin their company record by issuing a recall. I suppose they will fix the issue with the "4GS" i guess. Make money from stupid buyers. | |
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tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:1 | Right! So all prior iPhones had bugs in them that no one at Apple knew about and/or corrected? The fix to crappy reception in the iPhone is to simply report that crappy reception correctly?
So now Apple us not only pissing on their new iPhone 4 customers but also not pissing on all their old iPhone customers.
Sweet fix!
Did you hear that? It's the sound of iPhone sales dropping everywhere.
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|  spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
·SureWest Internet
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Right! Yeah! Just isn't gonna happen. People flock to Apple as it if it were magical elixir, guaranteed to prolong life and what not! They are probably going to sell more eyephones than ever before. There is no end to what Apple can do.
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The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!
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| | tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Right! said by spewak: People flock to Apple as it if it were magical elixir, guaranteed to prolong life and what not! They are probably going to sell more eyephones than ever before. There is no end to what Apple can do. You might like this video then:
»phandroid.com/2010/06/30/nsfw-ip···nt-care/
Warning: Offensive language | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | iPhone sales aren't dropping everywhere, nor will they drop everywhere.. if the product is defective, people will continue to purchase it, and then sue them. That's how people operate in this country. | |
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| | tcopePremium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Right! For right now.
What other company can put out a defective product and then make even more money from their "customers" in selling them the "solution" to the defect (i.e. 'bumpers")?
I don't know which I blame more, Apple or their iPhone customers.
That is why the video is so funny! You can just see Apple's customer base as the iPhone customer in the video. | |
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| Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·RoadRunner Cable
| Don't count on it. those who would/have bought an iphone have had too much Koolaid to stop buying new ones. Like any addiction, you have to quit cold turkey and never look back. That's easy for those of us allergic to apples, we'd never tough those things no matter what. | |
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| | wow talk about being stubborn, just recall the damn things. You can't save face by denying, wrong or bad in this case is bad. | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
| Apple conspiracy & cover up 1) This claim never appeared to previous iphones in this great a scale
2) Previous Iphones were not entangled in class action law suits in the first month of release.
3) Claiming all that's needed is a mediocre software patch that the user will have to download and install them self is a whole lot cheaper for Apple than paying out for returned phones, lawsuits, bumpers, etc......
Need I say more... LOL | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Apple conspiracy & cover up Oh, but you're wrong... 
1) Yes, people bitch about "crappy reception" all the time - in this very topic today as a matter of fact..
2) A class action is not a measure of a problem. A class action, and don't mistake this one with others as this is an incredibly pre-mature suit to be filed by the attorneys as it is, can often be an attorney trying to make a name for themselves. There have been other issues in the past such as battery issues.
3) If in fact there IS a software problem, what do you expect? Software patches are a normal path to correct "software issues" and happens millions of times over and over. Should MS recall entire installations and hand you a new one? Should Dell recall the computer for an O/S issue and hand you a new computer? ... or does the user simply download, install it themselves?
Sounds to me that there is MUCH more to be discovered in this particular issue.. this may turn up more problems for AT&T than it does apple.
Personally, I don't have reception problems with my 3GS as many people do, but I'm in Minnesota and the system here is built pretty good and the areas I use my phone have worked for me - ie: the personal experience of one doesn't equate the same to another even if the problem is inherit in the same general area. It doesn't necessarily take the end-user's account for a wide area issue. It takes actual overall data to determine the source of real cause and affect. | |
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| |  TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | Re: Apple conspiracy & cover up said by fiberguy:Oh, but you're wrong... 1) Yes, people bitch about "crappy reception" all the time - in this very topic today as a matter of fact.. 2) A class action is not a measure of a problem. A class action, and don't mistake this one with others as this is an incredibly pre-mature suit to be filed by the attorneys as it is, can often be an attorney trying to make a name for themselves. There have been other issues in the past such as battery issues. 3) If in fact there IS a software problem, what do you expect? Software patches are a normal path to correct "software issues" and happens millions of times over and over. Should MS recall entire installations and hand you a new one? Should Dell recall the computer for an O/S issue and hand you a new computer? ... or does the user simply download, install it themselves? Sounds to me that there is MUCH more to be discovered in this particular issue.. this may turn up more problems for AT&T than it does apple. Personally, I don't have reception problems with my 3GS as many people do, but I'm in Minnesota and the system here is built pretty good and the areas I use my phone have worked for me - ie: the personal experience of one doesn't equate the same to another even if the problem is inherit in the same general area. It doesn't necessarily take the end-user's account for a wide area issue. It takes actual overall data to determine the source of real cause and affect. what spins in a circular motion fast?
what is the capital of Idaho?
-Tzale
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan
-:-
www.freestateproject.org - LIVE LIBERTY | |
|
Reviews:
 ·WildBlue
| BS What a big ole load of crap. Does Apple honestly expect people to buy this? I find their responses to this issue laughable at best. "Oh well the bars are calculating wrong." Riiiight....Yah that's what it is.
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[IMG]»img218.imageshack.us/img218/2636···3dg6.gif
Windows 7 Pro 64-Bit / Q6600 / 9800GT / 4GB RAM | |
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| AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: BS said by Sircolby45:What a big ole load of crap. Does Apple honestly expect people to buy this? I find their responses to this issue laughable at best. "Oh well the bars are calculating wrong." Riiiight....Yah that's what it is. Apple thinks their customers will believe them and stick by them no matter what, but i think the customers are finally realizing that apple isn't as all-mighty as they thought.
»www.engadget.com/2010/07/03/stev···ys-appl/
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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| | Apple is making it up Thats an straght up lie on apples part. They said when you hold the phone and loose reception that its showing the real signal your getting? Then how come I take a AT&T sim and pop it into an old nokia side by side with the 4 and I get full bars on the nokia but only 1 bar on the i4. | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Apple is making it up said by CyrusDaVirus:Thats an straght up lie on apples part. They said when you hold the phone and loose reception that its showing the real signal your getting? Then how come I take a AT&T sim and pop it into an old nokia side by side with the 4 and I get full bars on the nokia but only 1 bar on the i4. It is? Apple just told you that their phone is measuring less signal than it really is getting.. how's that a lie? You lose reception when the signal is low. covering ANY antenna with your hand will ultimately cause loss in some signal - so if the signal on the iPhone is already at the lowest end and you cover the antenna, what would you expect to happen?
Second, saying that your nokia is getting better signal is like saying your Smart Car gets better gas mileage over your Ford F150 truck. Not every phone is the same.. some phone get better signal than others and the iPhone isn't exempt from that fact. You can have 5 people in the same room and they'll all get various signal readings based on how well their phone is able to receive signals. One thing I HAVE noticed, being in the same with with 5 other iPhone users at the same time, is that all of our phones reported the same signal pretty much at at the same time. | |
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| |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Apple is making it up said by fiberguy:Second, saying that your nokia is getting better signal is like saying your Smart Car gets better gas mileage over your Ford F150 truck. Not every phone is the same.. some phone get better signal than others and the iPhone isn't exempt from that fact. You can have 5 people in the same room and they'll all get various signal readings based on how well their phone is able to receive signals. One thing I HAVE noticed, being in the same with with 5 other iPhone users at the same time, is that all of our phones reported the same signal pretty much at at the same time. Yep, that's true. What is also true is that the iPhone seems to have one of the worst antenna designs of the bunch, as illustrated by your example. Most other GSM phones do a much better job while most iPhones are designed to look pretty first and actually work as secondary.
So really, it's like saying my Smart Car looks prettier from my F150 as I drive by it, since I can't really use it to go anywhere. | |
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 DrZEUS
join:2004-01-13
Mississauga, ON | Wow That is the biggest crock of shat I have ever heard! | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| so sad Two words:
GSM sucks. IMO, of course.
All the "fixes" in the world don't change the fact that CDMA, at least in America, is more reliable, and more prevalent.
Even with great reception, calls drop, audio gets garbled badly, and all sorts of weird things.
Here, Verizon has the most customers. They mostly use CDMA. Coincidence???
Were it not for this shiny little piece of Apple technology (and its FOUR iterations so far...), AT&T's wireless division would probably have FAR fewer customers than it does today. | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| | Come on fanboys Defend Apple. Go. | |
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| bdon78I didn't do it
join:2009-05-18
Decatur, GA | Re: Come on fanboys I'm not an Apple fan boy, but I do currently own a 3G iPhone... (No Macs, or MacMinis, or any of that stuff)
I have no intention of defending Apple.. but I will point out that I have every intention of buying the iPhone 4 (and a case).
Call me stupid, but I just like the phones and the pieces built around them (iTunes, app store, only syncing one device etc..). For me, I can live with finding some way around the antenna issue, i.e. buying a case, holding it differently. Just a personal choice (risk vs reward?). | |
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| | | Fanboy is such a disparaging term. Then again, if it fits...... | |
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| AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| »www.engadget.com/2010/07/03/eyep···lips-of/
Maybe the apple fan boys are busy sending nasty emails to comedy central for their hilarious airing of futurama episode where they make fun of the iphone cult.
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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 newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1
 ·Vonage
·DIRECTV
| Was this mistake intentional? quote:
Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don't know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place.
hmmm . . . I wonder if this was formula issue was intentional so as to convince users that their signals were always good or better than any other phone. | |
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| | Just make one bar There ya go! Now you'll never know that you get a disconnection just be touching the wrong area! | |
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|  GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: Just make one bar said by Metatron2008:There ya go! Now you'll never know that you get a disconnection just be touching the wrong area! This actually sounds like "The Apple way".
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My Blog 2.0 | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by Metatron2008:There ya go! Now you'll never know that you get a disconnection just be touching the wrong area! yea... kinda like my HTC hero that I constantly kept hanging up on people when I'd put the phone to my head to talk and my cheek would hit the "end" button on the screen because the designer of the hardware was too cheap to put a proximity sensor on the unit to detect it was against the head and dim the screen/functions.. right? ... Sprint and HTC both told me, get ready, "you're holding it wrong"... and "it will time out in 30 seconds after last use, just keep it away from your face until then and you'll be fine".. Funny, too, because they had placed a physical END button on the bottom of the phone. HTC could have removed the virtual END button from the screen to avoid this issue but they didn't. My Hero went back to Sprint for an iPhone that didn't have that problem. (Heard this same complaint from other Hero users as well)
These issues and flaws exist in almost every phone out there in various forms. They're not exclusive to apple by any means. | |
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| SlyLoK
join:2007-10-19
Sugar Grove, VA | Re: Load of B.S Bingo..
This is just Apple trying to deflect the blame and put it on to AT&T. | |
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 Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23
·Cox HSI
3 edits | -coughullshit- said by Apple PR idiots being stupid again :
To start with, gripping almost any mobile phone in certain ways will reduce its reception by 1 or more bars.
This should read
said by Apple PR idiots who should have been smarter :
To start with, gripping almost any mobile phone in certain ways will reduce its reception by 1 or more bars, but the iPhone 4 can have reception reduced by ALL bars.
They should immediately offer free bumpers who anyone affected who asks for them and those that don't want bumpers should get 100% refunds, no restocking fee B.S. and an apology.
Yes, we have seen videos on youtube of some android handsets doing the same thing (some were posted in ATM) but how does that help affected users?
Okay, so some Android handsets suck too? Is that really their answer? If people wanted a shitty handset, they would have bought a different handset in the first place. They're going to run with the blame the customer excuse? I had expected a 180 but obviously Apple is doubling down on their idiocy.
Hand out the bumpers dumbasses...for FREE. Issue refunds dumbasses...with no restocking fees. Apologize to the ball cuppers for not making a left ham hand friendly handset and tell Johnny to do better next time. | |
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