 | | best case and Worse case Best case and Worse case
Best for uses it's a cable card or all vid box that you can buy.
Worse case rent only (usa) for $15-$20 /mo each or canada $20-$25 rent / rent to own or buy for $600-$800. | |
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 CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Yawn..... Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn  | |
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 skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Clear Wireless
| Going to be next to impossible MSOs aren't going to give up their $20/mo cash hog which is their digital box + DVR service.
But if they could get a DBS provider to bite like DirecTV it could end up like an iPhone...people may switch providers to get the device if it doesn't suck and as a result, MSOs would have to come get it just like Verizon and Sprint did for iPhones. And with DBS being nearly universally available, every MSO COULD feel the pressure to offer the device.
Of course there will be haters that matter what, declare any device of this sort DOA just as they did the iPhone and iPad. | |
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 | mogamer
join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI | Re: Going to be next to impossible said by skeechan:MSOs aren't going to give up their $20/mo cash hog which is their digital box + DVR service.
I guess you've never heard of cable card devices then.
Even though Comcast is the biggest cabelco, you could get their complete service without renting any of their equipment (outside of a cable card). Xbox 360 for On Demand service, Tivo or HTPC as a dvr, and use your own modem for internet and phone. | |
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| | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Going to be next to impossible They support cablecards because the FCC forced them to.
MSOs were dragged kicking and screaming to cablecards. | |
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|  MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
·Comcast
| said by skeechan:MSOs aren't going to give up their $20/mo cash hog which is their digital box + DVR service.
MSO's have already gotten this figured out by swapping fees around. For example Comcast lowered the rental fee for the boxes down to $3 and now charges a $17 outlet fee. That fee applies to customer owned devices as well so even if a user brings his own box, he pays almost as much as he would if he rented a box.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Going to be next to impossible Huh, I didn't know that. I thought outlet fees were illegal now, like with the telcos. You only pay for the connection to the J-box and then you can split it as much as you want fee-free. | |
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| | | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Going to be next to impossible said by skeechan:Huh, I didn't know that. I thought outlet fees were illegal now, like with the telcos. You only pay for the connection to the J-box and then you can split it as much as you want fee-free.
You can split the signal as much as you want, but since all the signals are now digital and encrypted (at least with Comcast) that won't do you much. Basically with digital cable the MSOs know exactly how many "digital outlets" (i.e. MSO and user provided boxes) you have.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
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| | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Going to be next to impossible Wow, that is crazy. So even with a TiVo you would get hit $17+$2-$3 cablecard rental per box? If Cox ever did that I'd be gone that day. I have 6 "outlets". | |
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| | | | | | I put together a Windows Media Center PC with a Ceton quad tuner card that uses CableCard. Then I put a cheap XBox anywhere else I want tv. Whole home DVR. Comcast gives you the first CableCard for free and they credit my account $2.50 per month for owning my own equipment.
Yes, it cost a fortune to build the box. But I have an awesome entertainment center and a whole home DVR. No monthly fees for equipment or TV listings. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·MetConnect
| Re: Going to be next to impossible This is a great way to go, I use to work for a great custom home theater company in Minnesota that did that. We also would put a RAID array inside for backup and a great program called anydvd do the HTPC was a jukebox of your DVD/blueray collection. Our owner was extremely knowledgeable in PCs we were the only one in the Metro that offered them at the time.
Another cool thing he came up with was to split the VGA signal and run it to a white 7" install LCD monitor sold by Accelle electronics of californa it had VGA in and usb touch screen overlay inside. A pair of USB over cat 5 converters got the signal back to the HTPC. You could have this in your master bed room and run everything on the PC. It looked soo cool. And I think the screens were only 250 wholesale. | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit |  Apple can build one now - a cable card ready device
The problem is that Apple, as usual, wants to build a box where Apple controls the whole process of updates, apps, access, etc. Thereby trying to ace out the carrier from dealing with the customer at all.
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»www.mittromney.com/s/repeal-and-···bamacare
»www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care | |
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| skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Re: Apple can build one now - a cable card ready device That would the price up the box and make deployment troublesome for end users. Anyone with a TiVo (I have two) can attest to the nightmare cablecards are.
It is much simpler for Apple to simply app up a new 4th generation Apple TV with MSO supported apps for which MSOs get in-app subscription revenues for.
I just don't see Apple making a "real" cable box. Apple TV is inches away from running everything in the app store and if they can get TV on there, they'd sell a zillion. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Apple can build one now - a cable card ready device said by skeechan:That would the price up the box
Yes because Apple products are soooooo cheap. | |
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| | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: Apple can build one now - a cable card ready device Some are, some aren't...depends on the market segment. | |
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| | | How is this any different than a Tivo? If I buy a Tivo, the only interaction I should be having with the cable company is to get a Cablecard and paying the monthly service fee, right?
I have no illusions that Apple's motives are not altruistic nor anything but in Apple's best interests; but anyone who can disrupt this nonsense of having to rent gear from the cable company in order to watch the service for which I'm paying, is alright in my book. | |
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| | software Comcast/timewarner/and cablevision all have software that you can use on an ipad or ip[hone to watch tv.
Apple does not have to do an new setup .Just have those 3 put the software on the apple tv. No new setop required.
Cablevision showed their software running on a samsung and lg tv so why not? | |
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| skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·Clear Wireless
| Re: software There is no Apple TV developer agreement other than those very specific ones (eg Netflix, Hulu, etc). Apps running on iPad wouldn't automatically be supported by a 4th gen Apple TV. The developers for the MSO would have to do that.
And if Apple tries to support it themselves, MSO simply pull the apps from the App Store.
Apple has no real choice but to negotiate with MSOs if they want to deploy a 4th gen Apple TV with apps, games AND cable TV. | |
|
 airwavzAlways the green wire
join:2011-09-11
Mount Juliet, TN
kudos:1 | STB? - Who Cares Why does anyone have any interest in STB's? The reality is, just like landline phones, cable TV is a 'dead service walking'... They just haven't admitted it yet. The new generation doesn't care about Radio, Cable TV, or anything wired - it has to be mobile AND internet based to even interest them (look at the latest facts on where the kids get their music from). My teenage daughter hasn't sat down in front of the TV in ages. She gets everything she wants on her phone - YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, DI.fm, etc. She only opens her laptop to play games! This time Apple is too late to the show. Between the cord-cutters and the mobile generation, the cable-cos become ISPs or die - it really is just that simple. Why do you think the telcos are simply abandoning copper and focusing on wireless? Any cable-co that's not putting every resource into data is a future bankruptcy... | |
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|  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: STB? - Who Cares said by airwavz:Why does anyone have any interest in STB's? The reality is, just like landline phones, cable TV is a 'dead service walking'... They just haven't admitted it yet. ... just like these graphs clearly show the decline of HDTVs in households.. er.. wait.
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| |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: STB? - Who Cares Non sequitur. Don't forget that HDTVs have been the only thing you could buy for quite some time now. It only stands to reason that more households would have them and that their penetration would increase over time, if only because people are replacing older tvs with new ones.
I'm more interested in the total number of pay tv subscribers over time. Methinks it has been flat, as the only way one provider can get new customers is to poach them from another provider. Based on previous reports here, I don't see people who cut the cord completely on pay tv as a huge factor, yet.
Assuming the number of total subscribers is flat and has been over time, then I would say the pay tv industry might want to start worrying.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: STB? - Who Cares said by pnh102:I'm more interested in the total number of pay tv subscribers over time. Methinks it has been flat, as the only way one provider can get new customers is to poach them from another provider. The rate of growth is slowing, but it's definitely not flat.
Source: »blog.telegeography.com/post/2855···6a45c650
These are global stats. | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: STB? - Who Cares I can see how non-US markets being crucial for US-based content providers... but it seems the US market itself is rather flat.
»news.investors.com/article/62181···loss.htm
Pay TV service, at least in the US, has nowhere to go but down.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | | | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
1 edit | Re: STB? - Who Cares said by pnh102:I can see how non-US markets being crucial for US-based content providers... but it seems the US market itself is rather flat.
»news.investors.com/article/62181···loss.htm
Pay TV service, at least in the US, has nowhere to go but down.
Q2 numbers have been the worst in the cycle for the last few years.
See:
Also, 2012 Q1 posted a 494,000 net subscriber increase before the 348,000 loss in Q2 -- so it's still net positive on the year.
Source: »paidcontent.org/2012/05/11/pay-t···d-in-q1/
It's only been relatively flat the last couple years, and that's largely a reflection of the economy.
Still, when you have 100 million subscribers in the US paying for TV, it's pretty easy to see why you'd want to make a device that would appeal to some of them.
Note that the major area of growth is TelcoTV, and Verizon is still using QAM delivery for TV, hence a "cable box" would be usable for them as well. | |
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| | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: STB? - Who Cares I'm certainly not disputing that the current market for pay TV in the US is huge, it definitely is. I am just not seeing it as a growing industry as it used to be say, 10 or 20 years ago.
But given the price increases and the continuing problems with the economy, I just don't see these numbers increasing as a whole.
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Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge. | |
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| | | | | ncbillPremium
join:2007-01-23
Winston Salem, NC | I still pay for TV, but oly per-episode for the 'cable' shows I want, commercial-free, via Amazon Video.
Broadcast channels all recorded over-the-air via a TivoHD. | |
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| | | | What does HDTV have to do with cable tv?  | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Vitelity VOIP
| Re: STB? - Who Cares said by jjeffeory:What does HDTV have to do with cable tv? Remember how most people weren't willing to switch to AT&T for wireless service before they got the iPhone?
The right device can make the most inferior service somehow become palatable. | |
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| | What about IP based Tv? If they could secure the rights to the programming and manage to "unbundle" it, allowing you to stream the channels to the box via your broadband connection, then THAT in my opinion is compelling enough to compete. It would be contingent on 2 things in my opinion, first being I dont want to wait until the next day for the programming (live programming should be an option). Second, the pricing would have to reflect the unbundling of the channels if they go that route. Alot of people that I know are sick of paying for 200 channels and watching 4 to 10 of them. It certainly would make an interesting products. | |
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| skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: What about IP based Tv? With a lot of major MSOs capping HSI usage and looking at overage fees they have their bases covered...which of course is the real reason for caps+overages...not any capacity crunch. | |
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tpkatl
join:2009-11-16
Dacula, GA | What good is an Apple box when Comcast controls the pipe? We're all at the mercy of our cable provider and their caps and what they're willing ot throw down the pipe. We all know how Comcast really feels about Net neutrality - and it's not encouraging.
As long as {comcast, Charter, TWC} controls the coaxial cable, then Apple doesn't have a prayer.
Which is why Google's Kansas City experiment is MUCH more promising than any Apple box. | |
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elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA | How many times? Karl laments that broadcasters "are terrified of the existing cash cow being disrupted". I doubt any Wall Street analysts would characterize the broadcast industry as drowning in cashflow.
Apple is the stubborn one here. They are unwilling to invest in the last-mile network and assure 2K/4K delivery; they are unwilling to pay for the content. | |
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| | | Re: How many times? Apple makes more money from music than the record labels do.
Apple makes more money from cell phones than the carriers do.
Apple makes more money from e-books than the publishers do.
At this point, anyone approached by Apple for a partnership is going to be very wary about handing Apple all the cards. | |
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| |  pnjunctionTeksavvy ExtremePremium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | Re: How many times? This is what I'm thinking. They'd be morons to let Apple into their business unless they're itching to fork over a large chunk of their revenue. The business as a whole isn't growing, if Apple is going to step in and make more money than the current STB manufacturers that bigger slice is going to come from somewhere. | |
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| | Do the set top boxes look like Apples? Oh uh! Watch out cable stb companies, Apple is gonna buy up some patents! | |
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|  syslockPremium
join:2007-02-03
Honolulu, HI | Re: Do the set top boxes look like Apples? Google just gobbled up Motorola for the STB stuff. Will be interesting if they keep it or sell that part off as others have talked about. | |
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| | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Do the set top boxes look like Apples? said by syslock:Google just gobbled up Motorola for the STB stuff. Will be interesting if they keep it or sell that part off as others have talked about.
Google bought the mobility division, you know, phones... | |
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| | | pnjunctionTeksavvy ExtremePremium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1 | Re: Do the set top boxes look like Apples? Motorola Mobility also contains their set-top box business... | |
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| | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Do the set top boxes look like Apples? Interesting, did not know that. | |
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| | | |  chip89
join:2012-07-05
Independence, OH | and their cable modems to | |
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Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| sarcasm coming.. sure, $49 set-top rental fee...!
Afterall, consumers love cable-tv they're unsubscribing in droves..
most likely, consumers will use the free content model.. since they're now officially gonna get gouged for internet next year.... since the last of the competitive ISPs refuse to compete now.. | |
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 IowaCowboyWant to go back to IowaPremium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
·Comcast
·Verizon Broadban..
| They should just build on the Apple TV They should just build an Apple TV with a CableCard slot. That way consumers would not have to be dependent of their Cableco having it on their system.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town). | |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Apple tv Don't they max out at 720P?
thanks but no thanks. | |
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But the MSO has to permit such functionality just as Cox is the one putting the iPad app up.
