 DodgePremium
join:2002-11-27 | Returns So for people who don't want the case are they going to let them out of the contract and refund the phone purchase price? | |
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 | | | News Flash "Software upgrade can't fix a hardware problem."
There are many instances where upgrading software can get around hardware issues up to a certain point (NASA is good at it when salvaging spacecraft millions of miles away), but if the antenna doesn't work, it doesn't work. | |
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| | | Re: Returns serves you right for buying one of these iphones.you got what you payed for so live with it.apple is no longer a nice friendly company.maybe you ought to have shopped elsewheres.
I love my little $60 Samsung phone. !!! | |
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| | DodgePremium
join:2002-11-27 | Re: Returns said by gorehound:serves you right for buying one of these iphones.you got what you payed for so live with it.apple is no longer a nice friendly company.maybe you ought to have shopped elsewheres. I love my little $60 Samsung phone. !!! Serves me right?!? I have Verizon / Droid, I was just curious how Apple is going to handle this problem. | |
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|  AlcoholPremium
join:2003-05-26
Climax, MI
kudos:3
 ·Comcast
| said by Dodge:So for people who don't want the case are they going to let them out of the contract and refund the phone purchase price? Nice joke. Here's another:
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I found the key to success but somebody changed the lock. | |
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| | | Apple will skirt the issue by quoting their 30-day iPhone return policy. | |
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|  Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Re: Anandtech Moral of the article:
Iphone 4 loses 20dB of signal while a normal phone might lose 10dB of signal just from regular holding.
That, and Apple does have some messed up bars. | |
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| | | | Re: Anandtech Also that the effect of the 20-24db loss is much more pronounced when you are starting at -85 dBm. | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit |  Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4
Will any Apple phanatic listen to that advice? NO. They will gladly pay Apple another $30 + tax to get a bumper to wrap around their defective antenna.
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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| | |  cbrigante2Cubs 20??Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 said by djrobx:I would have already returned it if I had an actual problem. It would be "retarded" to return a phone because I saw a video demonstrating how I can reduce the signal strength by squeezing the phone a certain way. It's a great phone. It's better than my previous 3GS in every respect. Same boat as you. While I can reproduce the issue with while gripping the phone in an odd way while you have moisture on your finger right at the spot where the antenna is(that would never resemble holding the phone for a call) the phone has been great so far for me. Have yet to experience a dropped call so far on it, when they were pretty common on my 3G iPhone. | |
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| | | |  FBGuyPremium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 news flash. iphone 4 is a 3g phone also. | |
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| | | | | cbrigante2Cubs 20??Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 said by FBGuy:news flash. iphone 4 is a 3g phone also. Did I claim the iPhone 4 was not a 3G phone somewhere?
You might want to pay close attention to the review here:
»www.engadget.com/2010/06/22/iphone-4-review/
In particular, read the section labeled "Internals" where they talk about the performance of the new phone in regards to dropped calls. | |
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| | | | | |  koolman2Premium
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 He was just being a dick. You placed "3G" in front of "iPhone" so it implied that your other iPhone is 3G capable instead of what you meant to say, which was "iPhone 3G". | |
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| | | | | | | cbrigante2Cubs 20??Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 said by koolman2:He was just being a dick. You placed "3G" in front of "iPhone" so it implied that your other iPhone is 3G capable instead of what you meant to say, which was "iPhone 3G". Sorry. I keep calling it the 3G iPhone by mistake.  | |
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| | | Re: Not 30 days yet? Return your iPhone 4 said by Linklist:If the 30 days have not passed yet, save some money and return your iPhone 4. You have bought a defective product that no software patch will fix. Will any Apple phanatic listen to that advice? NO. They will gladly pay Apple another $30 + tax to get a bumper to wrap around their defective antenna. Thank you, someone else has come to their senses! I knew from day 1 that Apple would NOT embrace an open platform and screw their customers over. But, I guess some people need to learn the hard way. | |
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|  Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23 | If they are not acknowledging a problem with the handset, there is a 10% restocking fee. | |
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 VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | I was shocked when Jobs said that a software fix would fix this....I mean, I thought everyone and their mother understood that this was a network/hardware issue | |
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| DodgePremium
join:2002-11-27 | Re: I was shocked when Jobs said said by Van:that a software fix would fix this....I mean, I thought everyone and their mother understood that this was a network/hardware issue What he meant is that the next official batch of kool-aid will alter the user's motor functions and they will not be able to hold the phone "incorrectly" anymore  | |
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|  Paul928
join:2000-05-06
Haverhill, MA | said by Van:that a software fix would fix this....I mean, I thought everyone and their mother understood that this was a network/hardware issue Oh I think people knew, but Jobs was hoping that either the fanboys, or enough of the public would be stupid enough to believe Apple's bull story!!! But you want to know what? ..... People will still run to the Apple store in droves, to buy the next Apple (locked down, controlled) product! When are people going to learn to take the blinders off???? | |
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| |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: I was shocked when Jobs said said by Paul928:When are people going to learn to take the blinders off???? Never. Consumers are trained from an early age to buy what they are told to buy and like it. Only a small percentage escape the Madison Avenue mind control. It is also why people buy $200 Ed Hardy tee shirts... | |
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| | | They attempted to distract people with another issue that dealt with signal strength.
There are at least two problems here. First, the antenna characteristics changing when the phone is held, and second the software misrepresenting signal strength.
The first issue can't be dealt with via software. | |
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|  GaffJust like that gypsy woman said
join:1999-09-05
North TX, US | These are not the droids you are looking for... | |
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| | grow up you guys get over it it is just a phone.. every phone out there as some sort of signal loss pretty much when held on the bottom... the issue really is att poor network in certain areas.. you expect a phone to be perfect just because it is a eye phone (see futurama) grow up. | |
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| | | Re: grow up AT&T network?I work within a mile of a new AT&T 3G tower. with my 3gs never a problem full bars no failed calls.My iphone 4 every text failed every call failed on 3g service.Took the phone back yesterday and went back to the 3gs and full bars no signal problem.This weekend I was in Toronto on the Rodgers network and I had the same problems so I find it hard to blame AT&T when I had the same problems on Rodgers. | |
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 TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
 ·CenturyLink
| What is Wrong with Apple The iPhone has what in the communications industry is called a software defined radio. Such radios have been in the military for several decades and in the civilian markets for over 20 years. The firm/software for such systems are well understood and there are programmer/engineers who are experts in this field. I can understand the antenna problem the frequencies an iPhone is expected to operate both cell and WiFi there is very little if any harmonic relationships between them which makes it tough to design an antenna. What I really don't understand is there is a fractal antenna design that is very compact and able operate on multitude frequencies which has been in use in other cell phones for years. Why isn't Apple using this antenna the glass front and back of the 4G phone would be ideal. In fact a fractal antenna could be printed on the inside of the back panel. The only reason I can think of why Apple is not using this type of antenna is they don't own the patent. Go here to educate yourself on fractal antennas, which I am proud to say was invented by a fellow hamradio operator.
»www.fractenna.com/
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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption | |
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|  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: What is Wrong with Apple There you go again, you ham radio Luddites. Just a bunch of backwards oafs talking on your tube radios ruining BPL for everyone else! 
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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| | TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY Reviews:
·CenturyLink
| Re: What is Wrong with Apple said by N3OGH:There you go again, you ham radio Luddites. Just a bunch of backwards oafs talking on your tube radios ruining BPL for everyone else! Ah yes the evil electric blue glow of an 866 mercury vapor rectifier tube in a darkened room, ha-ha ha-ha-ha-ha (laugh like a mad scientist)  .
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I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption | |
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| | |  DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.Premium
join:2000-05-14
Greenville, NC
·Suddenlink
| Re: What is Wrong with Apple said by Transmaster:Ah yes the evil electric blue glow of an 866 mercury vapor rectifier tube in a darkened room, ha-ha ha-ha-ha-ha (laugh like a mad scientist) . The UV from the 866 helped cure my teenage acne.
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Who overcomes by force, hath overcome but half his foe. - Milton | |
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| | | | stridr69
join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA | Re: What is Wrong with Apple LOL
I'm gonna fire up my Heathkit shortwave radio(circa 1966) just to enjoy the glow from them olde tubes! | |
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|  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
1 edit | said by Transmaster:The only reason I can think of why Apple is not using this type of antenna is they don't own the patent. That and the possibility that the royalties would have been extremely high. Nothing wrong with patented technology as long as the license to use it is reasonably priced. I have no idea if Apple even investigated them but had they and had been quoted a price of say $3 per handset, I could see them walking away.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | | Fractal Antenna Systems,Inc. is well aware of the problems associated with internal antennas in mobile phones. I am not aware that Apple has used any antenna design outside of that made by their own engineers.
FRACTAL has been working with internal antennas for 15 years and has solutions that enhance performance relative to that now commonly reported in smartphones. I am posting this to let those who are interested be aware that technology exists to overcome such problems.
It is not appropriate to discuss business issues here, but I did want to confirm that path or paths to improvement do exist. Also we are not seeking any 'PR' by this post--merely responding to the post on fractal antennas posted 7 July.
Finally, this is not meant to be a 'diss' of Apple nor its products. I have an IPhone and and IPad, for example, so I am an end-user. And yes: my personal IPhone works better than a stock one. I will let you speculate how.
Best to all,
Chip W1YW
(Nathan Cohen CEO) | |
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1 edit | Wonder what the real number is on this Wonder how many defective phones there really are? My mom and dad both got one at launch and there's work fine. Even the volume keys work right. What's new a defective product that every manufacture goes through. Blowed way out of hand by a few articles. But Apple should still offer them a refund or better yet allow them to return the defective phone and trade it for a good one. | |
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|  scavioPremium
join:2001-07-14
Melmac | Re: Wonder what the real number is on this All phones are manufactured with the same poor design. If your parents aren't having these problems, the only explanations could be (assuming they aren't holding it the "right" way):
1 - They are in a VERY good AT&T area and aren't experiencing the issues
2. They managed to get defective models that don't exibit this problem (not the other way around). | |
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| | | The problem is honesty. If there is something wrong with the phone, they can fix it. Everybody is happy. But if they deny there is something wrong with the phone, and make up a bunch of excuses for this and that, then how do you know your phone won't have the same problems after 30days? It tarnishes them, their company, and their phone. When all they have to say is, yeah there are some problems we have to work out, just bring your phone back and we'll get you another one.
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 HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2 | From AppleCare... "Your iPhone4 shouldn't be held when you're making a call anyway. Use your Bluetooth headpiece and sit your iPhone4 in the middle of the table so everyone can bask in your iPhone4's awesomeness!"
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
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|  DarkLogixTexan and ProudPremium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3 | Re: From AppleCare... LOL
next the hover phone
it'll follow you around like a PA | |
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approval from:
Wahoone 
| Death grip not everyone's problem. The death grip does not effect everyone. My daughter and I both were able to tightly grip the phone without signal lost. The resistivity of your skin is the factor that effect this problem. If you have a problem return the phone... what's the big deal. If you don't then enjoy it knowing that you are the coolest dude on the block. | |
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|  newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1 | Re: Death grip not everyone's problem. said by lederermc :
The death grip does not effect everyone. My daughter and I both were able to tightly grip the phone without signal lost. The resistivity of your skin is the factor that effect this problem.
So now . . . not only are you holding it wrong, you have the wrong kind of skin? | |
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| | stridr69
join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA | Re: Death grip not everyone's problem. They're "V's"
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| Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2 | Someone didn't read the Anandtech article which reveals the "bars of signal".
Basically if you are in an area with strong signal, you can "death grip" the phone and even though signal goes way down because you started with lots of signal there may not be a "displayed" drop in bars.
If you are on the "edge" of signal, and say only have 2-3 bars to start with, the death grip WILL drop your signal enough. | |
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| | bumper, middle finger If Apple doesn't give out free bumpers, I'd buy one that has middle finger solute going all the way around the edge. | |
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| | I might have gotten an iPhone I really liked the looks of the new iPhone and was seriously considering getting one when my upgrade comes around in a few weeks, but I don't think I will anymore. When I had initially read about this antenna design, I briefly wondered how it would handle being touched, but I figured that Apple's engineers knew something I didn't. Then, when I heard about the issues, I knew I had been right, but I waited to see what Apple's response would be. Had they admitted that the design had issues and said they were working on a fix--a REAL fix--I might have still waited to see what they'd do. But then Jobs had the arrogance to tell people they're holding the phone incorrectly when it's clear that they're doing no such thing. Then there was the BS about a software update, as if that could magically fix a hardware issue. That's a load of crap, and Apple knows it.
I've been on the fence between an iPhone and an Android device, and I think this issue just made that decision a little easier. If Apple can release a fix--a REAL fix--by the time I'm ready to buy, I may give the iPhone another look, but at this point, I have absolutely no confidence that they will or even that they'll admit the true nature of the problem.
Steve, if you're reading this, let me tell you, you really messed up on this one. It's bad enough that you allowed a horrendously bad antenna design to get released, but then you made a far worse mistake by trying to weasel your way out of the problem. You may be selling lots of units now, but you destroyed your credibility with lots of tech-savvy people, including me. And yes, I'll be warning anyone who mentions getting a new iPhone about this problem and your response to it. Sooner or later, Apple will pay for this debacle. | |
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| | Oh the joy... ..in reading you Fanboys vs Apple-Haters.
First, Apple is NOT (much of) a phone manufacturer. They used to be Apple Computer, Inc but changed to Apple so they could "expand" their product to more than "just a computer". As Far as Jobs stated, the computer is dead, embrace the personal thingee that is coolness from the clouds. (see iPod to iPod touch to iPhone to iPhone 3G then 3GS then iPad then iPhone 4G).
Form over Function will bite you. Growing pains? or historical cycle.
What I'd like to know is where are the Mac Pro refresh? Why no new iPods? Why even bother with Apple TV? No BluRay support yet(ever)?
And lastly, why must a laptop still cost over $2500?
If you can answer this, and you own AAPL, good for you! If you don't own any Apple items, if you never have owned an Apple/Mac/Performa/G5... then why are you even posting here?
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Splat | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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Z80APremium
join:2009-11-23
1 edit | They should issue 100%, no RS fee refunds They should be offering free bumpers and to those not wanting a bumper they should give a no hassle 100% no restock fee refund. To not to so is douchy. | |
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| | rubber cover... a coworker got a incipio rubber cover looks great and fits great
it did solve the issue...i think he paid $24.95 plus shipping....i think apple needs to pick up the tab | |
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Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| Here's an odd question about the antenna issue What happens in cases where people themselves might potentially act as a ground from the radio signals?
In my case I have a titanium rod and a series of screws in one leg as a result of an auto accident. Could this antenna issue be made worse because of this?
Now I haven't necessarily noticed anything with my current phone / past phones using CDMA tech, but I'm curious if the newer tech (In this case HSPA) and the iPhone with its now confirmed antenna issues will be more susceptible?
NefCanuck | |
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| 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Here's an odd question about the antenna issue At the microwave frequencies involved the metal in your leg is not an issue. First, unless you strap the phone to your leg the screws and rod are a couple dozen wavelengths from the phone antenna meaning there is minimal coupling between them, and second, they would merely reflect the signal, not absorb it.
The iPhone antenna issue is that it is external and unprotected, and easily detuned by putting your hand across the dipole gap. | |
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| |  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Here's an odd question about the antenna issue There are 2 design/usage problems here
A} the metal band is part of the ground plane of the antenna so touching it anywhere reduces the RF (this is why wrapping the band with an insulator (scotch tape, plastic wrap, etc) helps somewhat.
B} the location of the antenna radiator element is place so the RF must pass through your hand (and head, assuming you're on the phone) however H2O (very plentyful in the human body) is an excellent attenuator of microwave energy.
Software can't fix the poor design, the update will be just make the "bars" display more honest. | |
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| | Reviews:
·voip.ms
| said by 56403739:At the microwave frequencies involved the metal in your leg is not an issue. First, unless you strap the phone to your leg the screws and rod are a couple dozen wavelengths from the phone antenna meaning there is minimal coupling between them, and second, they would merely reflect the signal, not absorb it. The iPhone antenna issue is that it is external and unprotected, and easily detuned by putting your hand across the dipole gap. Ah I see... I apologize because I don't really understand all that well how the microwave frequencies work in concert with the human body (especially one like mine with the extra equipment in)
NefCanuck | |
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 AnClarPremium
join:2003-07-31
Belton, TX | iContinue to LOL And the battle of the network Apple fanbois and the Apple haters continues...Round 2.
Just my personal 2 cents.....the Anandtech reviewer states unequivocally that the iPhone 4's reception is far better than the 3GS. This whole uproar is just another excuse for the two sides to continue their thoroughly amusing back and forth. OK, so Apple probably has an issue with the external antenna...even with it, the reception (for many people) is better than the earlier generation of iPhones. Bottom line: If you like Android, buy Android. If you like Apple, buy Apple. End of story. But I realize that that approach won't provide the hours of amusement, and employment to legions of bloggers.
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When in danger or in doubt run in circles, scream and shout! | |
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| | I see no problem here Apple fans will buy this phone anyway. It doesn't have to work.
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I speak for myself, not my employer. | |
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jca2050Premium
join:2002-02-04
Dallas, TX | Droid I love my Moto Droid overclocked to 1.2GHz running Froyo | |
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