 
JAAulde
yum yum yum yum yum
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-09
Hagerstown, MD
1 edit | WooHoo My hometown made the front page of DSLR! 
Edit: Was in a hurry a little while ago and didn't get a chance to finish...
I'll just say that the Hagersotwn City Government is one of the best at what it does. I believe they want the best and work hard to get it for the community. I am positive that if this turns out to cause interference and other problems, they will pull the plug so to speak.
I applaud them for looking into it and hope it works out. But I am confident they won't let it break other relied upon services.
I don't even live in the areas that would be serviced. But am extremely interested in the fact that 'lil 'ol Hagerstown is getting into the alternative broadband ideas.
Jim | |
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 | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | Re: WooHoo You have my deepest condolences...  | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| Re: WooHoo "there's "absolutely zero" chance the technology could interfere with local radio signals, as critics suggest."
Since when did results from testing turn from being fact into critics?
How about the reasons behind other towns cancelling BPL deployment..they just cancelled it for no reason?....
Critics my ass, it's called scientific testing
--
Forum Posts:6500 | |
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| | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: WooHoo said by Qumahlin  :Critics my ass, it's called scientific testing No...it's called "scientific testing" if it supports your position, and "criticism" if it doesn't.  | |
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HOLD BPL
| Re: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour: new york city Site Visit Tour: »www.iqpc.com/cgi-bin/templates/d···lauID=7&
Thursday, June 30, 2005
Excellence in Action: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour
9.00 – 1.30 · Executive study tour to Con Edison’s BPL site in Manhattan
Back by popular demand – If you agree that seeing is believing – then make sure you don’t go home too soon and miss your chance to see BPL excellence in action!
Following the highly acclaimed Con Edison presentation delivered by Tim Frost at Broadband Over Powerline 2004, and your requests for a detailed update on this utility’s experiences, IQPC are delighted to announce a unique opportunity for you to witness this remarkable site in working practice!
Complete your trip to the Big Apple with this rare chance to take a look behind the scenes of one of America’s most advanced BPL deployments, where you can see first hand how the teamwork from Con Edison, Ambient and EarthLink creates a fusion of BPL magic in this single location.
Scope & History of the Deployment:
Together in a multi-dwelling apartment unit (MDU) on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, Con Edison, Ambient and EarthLink demonstrate powerline communications. Their goal is to provide high-speed PLC connectivity throughout the building that EarthLink can then package as an Internet service and Con Edison can utilize to actualize load management on window air conditioning units. Ultimately, the objective is to demonstrate that Con Edison can better utilize their transmission and distribution assets while adding services to customers through the use of power line communications.
December 2004 - Ambient began testing and designing the PLC network for this Manhattan site, and working with a NYC licensed electrician, they devised a most efficient means of delivering PLC to the 16 floor, 213 unit condominium building.
February 2005 - Ambient successfully installed communication devices to allow the distribution of a high-speed communication signal to all residences in the building.
Two T1 lines, a server, router and Ambient’s PLC node transfer the signal from the T1(s) throughout the building. Ambient’s PLC nodes are also being used at the metering stations on different floors to ensure high signal strength and resultant communication speed to customers.
Itinerary & schedule for your tour
9:00 · Meet in hotel lobby for registration
9.10 · Transport provided for travel to the Princeton House
9.40 · Gather inside Princeton House lobby for brief overview of the building
10.00 · Tour of the Princeton House installation
10.45 · Demonstration of service within a typical apartment
11.15 · Question and Answer session
12.00 · Networking lunch provided
1:00 · Depart for return to hotel
1.30 · Arrive back at hotel | |
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Oh_Really
@swbell.ne
| Re: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour: new york city "a fusion of BPL magic"
Pretty funny, next thing you know it will have twice the flavor with no calories. Or it will be infused with a citrus and spice...
Dude give some factual information rather than this regurgitated advertisement.
Tell me how well will BPL work when I run my vacuum cleaner, blender or any other device that causes interference?
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| | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA | Okay...so I now know how their PR lunch day went.
How exactly is this "illuminating research" as to how BPL won't interfere with radio signals? | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour: new york city There is one problem with this impressive ad' this is NOT BPL this is a two conductor transmission which does not have the RFI found if you shove an RF signal down a single wire. | |
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anti-bpl
@optonline.net | Re: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour: new york city NEW YORK CITY IS AN UNDERGROUND BPL network system !!!
Free of interference emissions !!! | |
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| | | | | | | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: Exclusive BPL Site Visit Tour: new york city An open wire radiator above ground will be 3 to 5 db stronger than the underground wire. Depending on how deep it is buried, it could reduce emissions by maybe as much as 6db. Now when your talking 25 to 35db above the noise floor with an above ground wire, that equates to 19 to 29db above the noise floor with the underground wire. Still unacceptable. Now in this building demo, it is alot more like "Home Plug" technology because they are piping the data stream in and out of the building via T1 lines and then distributing to the rooms via Home Plug. This is not BPL in any sense of the word. Its a big farce to lure new unsuspecting, non-technical investors out of their money. | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | we need to get rid of old technologies like radio to make way for new technologies like bpl. cmon this is the 21st century. adapt or die. | |
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Clickie
@mi.cha
| Re: WooHoo You're joking, right? Because nobody can be that naive or that stupid.
What do you think your cell phone uses? How about television? How about GPS?
It's all radio waves, Einstein. What you do with them depends upon how you modulate it. | |
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| | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: WooHoo said by Clickie:
What do you think your cell phone uses? How about television? How about GPS?
Apparantly, none of those, along with the commentary, are powered by sarcasm...which, is what I think the original post was about. | |
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Oh_Really
@swbell.ne
| So I guess you don't care for WiFi, WiMax or any other wireless technology?
How about your car stereo? You don't need to use that FM or AM radio right? Guess we had better shelve that XM radio too, old technology...
Good thing you got cable internet access. | |
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| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
1 edit | No more s-e-x for you! That is old technology. Give it up altogether. Want a kid, go to a lab for that...technology you know! So it must be embraced!  | |
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| ashworth
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA | You should hope this goes through....more choices for you and your community ?? | |
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| 
Descent
Wrap It Up
Premium
join:2000-11-10
WDC Suburb | My state made the home page of BBR | |
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please
@midco.net
| Oh sure a company bidding for bpl would say there is no interference even the fcc says theses no interference but money always overrides laws,common sense. there are interference on power line it just within a mile of them but persons with the power company say theres no interference on there lines. | |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... ...to mitigating all damages caused to all spectrum users by this backwater technology, and will cease all operation immediately if the system causes even a single "pop" on any radio in the area. After all, there is "absolutely zero chance" it will cause any interference, right?
What a bunch of PR crap. | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs: | Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... Agreed.
Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a WISP to come in and save the day, as well as make some good cash doing it.
KM | |
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| bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| I think all radios that interfere with BPL should be forced to shut down. I hate radio operators that think they have some special rights over any frequency. Radio can interfere with BPL as BPL MAY interfere with radio.
Long live BPL and down with radio. These operators are just a bunch of cry babies anyway. Over! | |
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| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... Are you insane? Hams aren't the problem. I can guarantee you that the 50 KW AM, megawatt shortwave 100 KW FM and 316 KW (and higher) TV transmissions aren't going away, nor are all of the thousands of two-way radio and paging transmitters which share the spectrum they are trying to force down a medium which was designed for 60 Hz. And how about lightning? You gonna make Ma Nature illegal too? She'll take out more BPL connections than all the radio transmitters combined.
Get a grip. This technology is all about suckering investors into losing their money and little else.
Over! | |
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| | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... Ma nature takes out cable modems and dsl modems and tv's and anything else she wants to.
You need to get a grip. BPL works and will be here like it or not. Internet is taking over old fashioned radio and leaving it in the dust.
Ham radio is only clogging the airwaves with junk. And tests prove that AM radio causes cancer for those living within 2 miles of a broadcast tower. plus the static during thunder storms has ripped many a speaker.
Long live BPL!!! | |
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| | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA | Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... If this is the best argument the pro-BPL community can make, then I have nothing to worry about: BPL is certainly doomed;) | |
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| | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by bjbrock :Ma nature takes out cable modems and dsl modems and tv's and anything else she wants to. You do realize that every time there is lightning within a several mile radius you will lose connectivity, right? Of course, there never are thunderstorms in Oklahoma so you'll be just fine...
said by bjbrock :You need to get a grip. BPL works and will be here like it or not. Internet is taking over old fashioned radio and leaving it in the dust. Ham radio is only clogging the airwaves with junk. And tests prove that AM radio causes cancer for those living within 2 miles of a broadcast tower. plus the static during thunder storms has ripped many a speaker. Long live BPL!!! Good lord. 
"tests prove that AM radio causes cancer"
What tests? What cancer? What did you do with your brain? Those same "tests" also "prove" that AC power (you know, what BPL rides on) causes cancer. At least get your junk science right if you are going to quote it. Or did you just make that one up?
"BPL works and will be here like it or not. "
Yeah it'll be here all right. But not for you. I sincerely hope you'll be able to dump those stocks though.
said by N3EVL :If this is the best argument the pro-BPL community can make, then I have nothing to worry about: BPL is certainly doomed;) Ain't that the truth. BPL stock speculation + tinfoil hat = "Long live BPL!!!" | |
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| | | | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... I guess AM radio scrambled my brain. Especially since I'm wasting my time swapping posts with someone who doesn't keep up with the times.
I'll find the article on AM towers and cancer and send it your way.
And I bet rural Oklahoma would rather have broadband drop out during a thunderstorm than not have it at all.
And the rural market is where all this interference you rail about would have minimal or no effect.
The technologies can and will co-exists.(radio and bpl) And where current broadband providers refuse to go, bpl will go.
Oh, by the way. it's been fun pushing your buttons. More fun than pushing the buttons on my FM radio. | |
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| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... Heh...I have no buttons. Nice try though.
Rural America will never see anything BPL. They've already determined it is not cost-effective to deploy it there due to the very low customer-to-transformer ratio. Are you prepared to bear the entire cost of deployment via monthly fees? It would be much cheaper for someone to build a WiFi "last-mile" network, and even then it's prohibitively expensive. The only way electric utilities are going to do this on any wide scale is if they can piggyback your blessed Internet access onto something else that makes economic sense. To serve rural areas means running fiber down the ROW, which they might as well continue to the premises instead of using the 240 volt service drop via some fragile injection method.
However you try to promote it, this pig is still a pig. | |
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FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... The argument against BPL is done by people who have broadband and the arguement for it is done by people without, See a coincidence. I personally am for BPL, I want broadband, but I do beleive theres soem interference, and I could be fixed. Also I think AM should be done away with, who actually listens to AM? Not that many unless you wanna listen to some talk show host talk about how liberal or conservative he is. I wanna see BPL work and work right. If itdoes good, If it doesn't oh well just have to wait for cable or DSL. I DO HOPE BPL does become succesful and works correctly with no interference. | |
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| | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Cool. Then they won't mind agreeing... Unfortunately for you, BPL will never bring you broadband in the boonies. Pardon the bluntness, but you aren't worth the cost. BPL is the most expensive way to deliver even marginally fast speeds and despite what Michael Powell said it's not gonna happen. There is no money in it unless the power companies just piggyback Internet access on top of some other data network they build for other purposes.
As for your AM radio comments, I'll just write them off as the rantings of an uninformed lost soul. You have no idea how much money is behind talk radio... | |
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| | | | | | | | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| said by FTCXtreme :The argument against BPL is done by people who have broadband and the arguement for it is done by people without, See a coincidence. I personally am for BPL, I want broadband, but I do beleive theres soem interference, and I could be fixed. Also I think AM should be done away with, who actually listens to AM? Not that many unless you wanna listen to some talk show host talk about how liberal or conservative he is. I wanna see BPL work and work right. If itdoes good, If it doesn't oh well just have to wait for cable or DSL. I DO HOPE BPL does become succesful and works correctly with no interference. If you re-read the postings on this and other BPL-related threads you will find that many of those pointing out the deficiencies of BPL are doing so from an informed perspective, focussed on the technical and economic aspects of this sad "technology." You will also find that most of those against BPL would welcome a viable alternative for those unfortunate enough to currently be without a broadband option - however, those who find themseleves in that category cannot expect those potentially affected by the roll out of this spectrum-polluting solution to sit idly by while an irreplaceable resource, namely the HF spectrum is tossed to the dogs in the interests of power companies and an FCC looking for an easy solution. Your reference to AM (MF AM Broadcast band)is irrelevant since the spectrum of which you speak is generally outside of the spectrum that is affected by HF BPL - namely 2 - 80 MHZ, and even if it were affected, what gives you (or the pro BPL crowd) the right to marginalize it on a whim? I hope you find a broadband option available to you soon but based on the many deficiencies of BPL, I would say your search is not yet over. | |
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GemSnake
Premium
join:2000-10-19
3rd layer
clubs: 
| Just do it! I'm sooooo tired of this BPL thing, it's not even funny. Just frigging try it, if it works then it work, if it interferes then it's their damn fault for not listening. Let them learn on their own mistakes.
--
"In a fight between you and the world, bet on the world." - Franz Kafka | |
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Oh_Really
@swbell.ne
| Like the poster said, they have been doing it. Funny thing is that no one talks about how BPL handles interference from other sources. As we all know, noise kills bandwidth. They send data on unshielded cables/wires, do you think that there won't be any interference picked up? Why do you think shielded ethernet cables are the preferred type of wiring for a network (excluding fiber)?
The laws of physics won't magically vanish because the BPL proponents say it's so. | |
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| | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Just do it! said by Oh_Really:
The laws of physics won't magically vanish because the BPL proponents say it's so.
However, you will find scientists willing to whore your position for you for the right price. Just look at the representatives testifying before congress claiming up is down, left is right, cigarettes are healthy, f*** the environment - it doesn't matter anyways, etc.
All BPL proponents need to do is pony up the dough, and they'll have enough scientists willing to write off the laws of physics for the company's sake.  | |
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| | | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Re: Just do it! Or use company hacks to report ONLY those things that are favorable, leading the masses to draw inferences from what is said. They may not always be lying, but with selective information or basing outcomes on laboratory controlled experiments at levels and conditions that make them look good and CANNOT be duplicated in the real world use of the technology, they are certainly misleading.
I can sell someone my old car- brag about the pristine paint job, the clean engine, that it easily reaches 100 mph (ok- so only going downhill with a big push, but shhhh....I'll leave that out). I will mention the practically new condition tires (which are 5 years old, but since the transmission is bad, hasn't seen many miles...shhhh again...details, details....) So, does anyone want to buy my pristine (as described) car?
Its funny that folks are leery of used car salesman and the commercials on TV that promise instant weight loss while you sleep, but will line up and take what is thrown at them (despite good arguments to the contrary) because it is about "technology" or is a desired technology.
Rob
said by Thaler : All BPL proponents need to do is pony up the dough, and they'll have enough scientists willing to write off the laws of physics for the company's sake. | |
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NetEng_Dude
join:2004-07-17
| BPL = "Absolutely Zero" Credibility "Absolutely Zero" accurately describes the credibility of the BPL pump-and-dump industry. Puffed-up customer take rates, exaggerated performance claims, misrepresentation of rural applicability. Now it's outright, bald-face lying about the interference problems. All par for the course from these characters. | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Re: BPL = "Absolutely Zero" Credibility You sir are SO wrong on this...there will be ABSOLUTELY ZERO interference...but of course, they must have drawn this conclusion doing the test inside of a Farady Cage!
Details, details...
said by NetEng_Dude :"Absolutely Zero" accurately describes the credibility of the BPL pump-and-dump industry. | |
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not for BPL
|  200Mbps Video, Voice, and Data CPE Solution on BPL
Corinex Communications and DS2 Develop First in Industry Embedded Powerline Module to Deliver 200Mbps Video, Voice, and Data CPE Solution over Powerlines
Thursday March 17, 4:57 pm ET
HANNOVER, Germany--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 17, 2005--Corinex Communications Corp. and DS2 are proud to announce the immediate availability of the Powerline industry's first embedded powerline solution. The new 200Mbps embedded solution enables manufacturers of PC's, set top boxes, and ADSL2+ residential gateways to easily implement powerline technology to their communication products, allowing for the distribution of video, voice, and data throughout an entire premise.
The embedded powerline solution enables manufacturers to meet both the cost reduction demands and the quality of service and high bandwidth demands of operators who are looking to deploy triple play including IP TV and VoIP services to the home. Corinex has created a new design group which has the knowledge and expertise to offer the integration of powerline management functionality with existing management platforms in ADSL2+ gateways and setop boxes, enabling manufacturers to build powerful integrated solutions at significantly reduced costs and shorter times to market.
"It is becoming obvious that operators are targeting powerline communications as the only feasible solution for their IP TV rollout strategies," stated Jorge Blasco, President DS2. "Our partnership effort with Corinex ensures that operators world wide will achieve the best price and performance when deploying new multimedia services".
Corinex will manufacture the embedded module and provide consulting and design modification services to manufacturers to achieve optimal performance for their markets. Complete software system integration services will also be offered to third parties by Corinex.
"Most major tier one operators in North America and Europe are already in field trials or laboratory tests with Corinex's 200 Mbps powerline technology," quotes Brian Donnelly, Director of Business Development for Corinex. "We believe our new embedded solution allowing carriers to offer cost effective simultaneous multiple video streaming services and ultra high-speed internet connectivity with secure VLAN tagging will enable first adopters to have a significant market advantage. Several companies have been asking for this solution and Corinex is happy to be delivering".
"After acceptance by the UPA (Universal Powerline Association), ETSI (European Telecommunication Stadards Institute) and OPERA (Open PLC European Research Alliance) solution is becoming the standard of choice in ADSL2+ deployment stategy by operators" stated Victor Dominguez, DS2 Director of Strategy and Standardization. | |
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Oh_Really
@swbell.ne | Re: 200Mbps Video, Voice, and Data CPE Solution on BPL So you used "not for BPL" in your first post and now you used "HOLD BPL" for this post.
Will your next post be "HOLD NOT FOR BPL"? | |
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| | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: 200Mbps Video, Voice, and Data CPE Solution on BPL Don't worry about this guy - he/she trolls these threads with a variety of names and spams with verbose pro BPL news items that are usually off topic (e.g. talk about in-buiding installations). He seems to be under the impression that posting large quantities of irrelevant material will convince those of us with a brain that there is some good in BPL. Not surprisingly he has and continues to fail in that quest. | |
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w4jle
Broadband Ain't A Womens Musical Group.
Premium
join:2002-03-23
Gilbert, SC
·PBT Telecommunicat..
| A factual look at BPL FCC part 15 covers the operation of unlicensed RF equipment. BPL falls under the requirements of part 15. That is they must not cause interference to licensed operations, and must live with interference from a properly operating licensed transmitter.
A recent case where the owner of a pair of electric scooters caused interference to an amateur radio operator. It was do to the switching regulator in the charger. The owners basically said "Tough noogies" to the ham operator. The FCC said $10,000 please to the scooter owner for interference and collected.
The Amateur Radio Relay league (ARRL) has documented BPL interference and in this case, Commissioner Powell (now gone) was enthralled with BPL and ignored part 15.
Interference is a two way street, if a device can cause a problem on a particular frequency, it to can be interfered with on the same frequency. How happy are you going to be when you can't use your BPL connection because the ham down the street is using his licensed transmitter?
The folks selling BPL don't give a damn about you or I, just making a few bucks and blaming the problem on the ham. They count on the fact most users don't know and could care less about the rules. All the user knows is that he can't use the connection, the provider says "not my fault", the ham says "I am totally legal" and the FCC says "your using a part 15 device and must accept interference". The long and short is your unhappy and have been screwed by a utility that well knows the technology is not ready for deployment in it's present form.
--
Fred W4JLE-Gilbert SC | |
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| w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: A factual look at BPL Like I said before, Mr. BPL meet Mr. Kilowatt.
nuf said | |
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| | N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: A factual look at BPL I hope Mr. BPL is worried - he needs to be!
In the event this nasty BPL should become prevalent, and in the interest of maintaining the communications channel with minimum essential power needed, I forsee many hours of delightful discourse in the company of Mr. Kilowatt;) | |
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NO-BPL
@optonline.net
1 edit | Re: A factual look at BPL I am a BPL hardware spammer. | |
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| | | | w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| Re: A factual look at BPL And as I said before that doesn't count because they are using it in an itra-building way that resembles "home plug" at best. Lets see an HDTV signal get by 135 repeaters across L.I. without any interference complaints. First off the picture would be grainy if not jerky in motion, and second the picture would go away everytime the cber down the street or anywhere in between keys up his transmitter.
And that's with only 5 watts of power on 27Mhz. Imagine what 1500 watts on 14Mhz would do... | |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Interesting It is interesting to see if anyone will actually report with scientific evidence instead of yelling at each other without any proof either way...
I am interested to see where this technology can go. For one, how far can it go from the provider? Is it less distant like DSL or will it be able to go farther?
I was going to try the powerline home networking equiptment (sold by most venders like Netgear, Linksys, etc), but was worried about it not traveling from one power circuit to another within the house. I didnt want to spend the extra money to 'test' it.
--
- "Techie" Jim | |
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| N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Interesting A little research on this and other web sites (google for BPL) will yield huge amounts of information on the subject including the specifics of the interference issues. There are documented examples of interference (recordings) available. It may appear as "yelling" but there is enough proof of BPLs interference potential to (at a minimum) raise some flags. This is especially concerning in light of the state of denial in which the BPL vendors continue to exist, supported by an overly, prematurely enthusiastic and supportive FCC (IMO). | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Perhaps you are new to these threads, but there is well substantiated and clearly detailed scientific studies which show the harmful effects (RF pollution) of BPL and its affects on several critical (and less critical) radio services. The problem is that those who desire and wish for BPL to work dissuade themselves from an open and honest assessment of the facts that don't support their hopes and interests.
A good site to look at is www.goBPL.com as well as www.arrl.org Granted, the second link is that of an Amateur Radio society who has staunchly opposed THIS particular means of broadband, but the information is not based on emotions but scientific and real-world duplicated measurements.
The US is not new to this attempt, as it was tried in many other countries. BPL was eventually scrapped and better technologies were embraced instead. Capitalism is alive and well in this country, and I am glad for that, but should we be fed bad technology and a false sense of goods because it is to the benefit of the Board and stock-holders of power line companies?
The emotion of the anti-BPL crowd is almost exclusively drawn from the concerns that BPL may create- based on the outcomes of scientific studies and measurements.
Some have argued/claimed that the Hams are looking to pick a fight and are making a fuss out of nothing- as if lacking credibility. Ham Radio peacefully co-exists with many other radio and wireless services and emerging technologies- all without a care or a peep. Even cable TV which is sent down the coax cable ON a ham radio frequency is not being attacked since the cable system was designed from the ground up to pass along such signals in a system which prevents leakage. The power lines, designed to send power to our homes, are not in any way set up or applicable for the transmission of BPL using HF frequencies (2-80 MHz).
The facts are easily found by searching through the many BPL threads here on BBR!
Be well,
Rob
said by jimbo2150 :It is interesting to see if anyone will actually report with scientific evidence instead of yelling at each other without any proof either way... | |
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markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Keep in mind... LOTS of BPL trials actually ended up going fullsteam, not many in the US yet, but most overseas ones are working without any problems (Because of electric grid is different,but thats a different story).
The problem with US, is since we use a different grid type than most other countries (US has to do everything different than europe for some reason :P) BPL just plain costs more here to make viable yet. Hence reason for so many trials right now, fact is most of these trials don't have many complaints from interference. Just because a trial does not continue, does not mean it was not successful.
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| N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Keep in mind... said by markopoleo :LOTS of BPL trials actually ended up going fullsteam, not many in the US yet, but most overseas ones are working without any problems (Because of electric grid is different,but thats a different story). The problem with US, is since we use a different grid type than most other countries (US has to do everything different than europe for some reason :P) BPL just plain costs more here to make viable yet. Hence reason for so many trials right now, fact is most of these trials don't have many complaints from interference. Just because a trial does not continue, does not mean it was not successful. Please cite the alleged successful foreign installations.
How were the inteference issues handled?
Please enlighten me how the difference in grid characteristics was a factor.
What were the characteristics of the BPL hardware used - was it HF BPL in the 2 - 80 MHz range?
My main concern with regard to the interference handling issue is the apparent unwillingness of the FCC to enforce its own rules in the documented cases of interference that HAVE occurred to date here in the US. The alleged success of the installations to which you allude may have been due to similar marginalization (by those foriegn euivalents of the FCC) of those who actually had legitimate interference claims: just sweep the complaints under the carpet... | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| said by markopoleo :LOTS of BPL trials actually ended up going fullsteam, not many in the US yet, but most overseas ones are working without any problems (Because of electric grid is different,but thats a different story). The problem with US, is since we use a different grid type than most other countries (US has to do everything different than europe for some reason :P) BPL just plain costs more here to make viable yet. Hence reason for so many trials right now, fact is most of these trials don't have many complaints from interference. Just because a trial does not continue, does not mean it was not successful. I'm still waiting for you to give the details of DC versus AC systems from two articles ago, which you claimed to know something about. There's only one major difference that I'm aware of which affects BPL deployment in the US, and that's the fact that there's typically less houses per transformer in the US than in Europe. That's it. This means merely less transformer bridging devices are needed in Europe. But according to BPL vendors, the equipment is so cheap and economical, it shouldn't be a problem.
Any chance you'll ever support any of the material and claims you post here? | |
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| w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO
| "fact is most of these trials don't have many complaints from interference"
Wrong they all have some complaints filed that are mostly being ignored by the FCC and the companies. Swept under the rug of course.
Just one complaint is enough to cease operation as per part15 rules.
Now you are correct that the number of complaints is relatively low, this is because the sites these companies pick for trials are often and interestingly void of licensed stations. You know station license information is public information and can be easily accessed by anyone. The companies desiring to run a test site will go look up all licensees addresses in a given area, and based on that alone can produce low complaints because they will place the test site area well away from any licensed stations. When BPL becomes more widespread the complaints will pour in from all over - even from other countries. But by then too much money and equipment will be in place to cease operations. It will take a supreme court ruling to stop it by then. So watch out what you root for because it could cost you much more money in the long run via increased utility bills and even increased local and gov. taxes to pay back the losses after they find out what a farce it really is. | |
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k7aab
join:2001-04-03
Granite City, IL
·DSL EXTREME
·Charter Pipeline
| Interference BPL ...
Well it does cause interference ... big time. It Cannot be installed around any military base. What does this tell yah? And VHF transmissions of 100 watts will black out about 2 city blocks of BPL, a 1500 watt amateur HF station will block out over 8 city blocks of BPL. Proven fact. Its just the energy companies way of squandering more money from the consumer. Wireless would have been the better way to go. | |
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| KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Re: Interference If the power line companies wanted a piece of the broadband pie and were really interested in providing competitive cutting edge technology, they could have leased their lines/poles/conduits, etc for the deployment of fiber optic wire. Their space can be leased by fiber/boradband providers.
Rob | |
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bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK
| Two way street. Radio transmissions can trash BPL signals as well as the reverse.
BPL is good but may need some tweaking so we all can live happily ever after. Let's change the frequency of BPL or what ever we need to do. But don't categorily condemn the technology. It will be the only way some people will have a chance to enjoy the hurt the Internet can put on users today. And the good as well;) | |
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| N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA
| Re: Two way street. Radio transmissions can trash said by bjbrock :BPL signals as well as the reverse. BPL is good but may need some tweaking so we all can live happily ever after. Let's change the frequency of BPL or what ever we need to do. But don't categorily condemn the technology. It will be the only way some people will have a chance to enjoy the hurt the Internet can put on users today. And the good as well;) Some things to bear in mind:
1)BPL operates under Part 15 rules & must not interfere with LICENSED transmissions
2)BPL operates under Part 15 rules & as such is offered NO protection from licensed incoming signals
3)"Tweak" is not a technical term; please explain how the BPL hardware can be modified such that the HF signal it injects to the power grid can be prevented from radiating.
4)BPL could certainly "change frequency" - see implementation by Corridor systems which uses microwave instead of HF. However, the focus of this thread is BPL using HF in the 2 - 80MHz range: what "frequency change" are you suggesting? Remember, this is broadband we're talking about so by definition, wide chunks of spectrum are involved.
5)Who says "BPL is good"? This should not be an automatic assumption. There is no rule that says all candidate broadband solutions are good.
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w4jle
Broadband Ain't A Womens Musical Group.
Premium
join:2002-03-23
Gilbert, SC
·PBT Telecommunicat..
| said by bjbrock :BPL signals as well as the reverse. BPL is good but may need some tweaking so we all can live happily ever after. Let's change the frequency of BPL or what ever we need to do. But don't categorily condemn the technology. It will be the only way some people will have a chance to enjoy the hurt the Internet can put on users today. And the good as well;) The laws of physics precludes changing the frequencies. As the frequency goes up, the inductive reactance goes up as well.
Formuli for capacitive and inductive reactance are Xl=2piFL and Xc=1/2piFC that is Xl inductive reactance increases as 2*pi is fixed as is the inductance value of the line. The only variable frequency causes an increase in reactance. (look at reactance as resistance to an AC signal)
The same holds true for Xc, except it varies as the recipical of frequency. Unless we can repeal the laws of physics your solution is moot. Part 15 specifies milliwatts per meter, ergo at low frequencies (lots of meters) you can run more power than at high frequencies.
Users spend a lot of money on their audio systems for shielded wire. The power company would have you believe that many miles of unshielded wire causes no problems.
A trip to »arrl.org will show actual recordings of noise and scope pictures of interference from several test locations AFTER the power company stated all problems have been solved.
It is not without some thought that a trial in California is under the FCC mandated watchful eye of the California DX society. (An amateur radio group).
While your local AM of FM station running Gigawatts is unlikely to be interfered with, Amateurs are doing a lot of weak signal work via moonbounce, amateur radio satellites and tropo experiments. Even small levels of interference obviates these types of communication.
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Fred W4JLE-Gilbert SC | |
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systems2000
What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah
join:2001-11-29
Cyberspace
·Embarq
|  Fair Competition?
quote:
And other Internet service providers say it wouldn't be fair to let a competitor use a public utility to deliver its product.
I agree with the local service providers. The city of Hagerstown is going to have the service provided by a privately owned contractor? Where's the contractors investment? Wireless, FTTH, Dial-Up, and cable all have to build or buy a huge infrastructure before they can begin service. What is the contractor bringing to the table other than his in-house equipment?
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Personal Theme Song:RUSH - Mystic Rythms from Power Windows.
Rush Radio Website -- WinAmp Stream 24/7 | |
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BPL Spat in Hagerstown, MD
