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Baltimore To Ban Lazy Cable Installs
New bill would require coax be buried within fifteen days
by Karl Bode Monday 30-Nov-2009 tags: business · cable · install
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Lazy cable installers have long draped coaxial over a customer's hedges and across their lawn instead of being buried or strung properly from pole to home. According to the Baltimore Sun, a new law would require that lazily draped cabled must be buried within fifteen days of a request or the company involved will face a fine. According to the Sun, both Comcast and Verizon lobbyists are locally working to prevent the new law, which would also ban the laying of cable across roads, sheds, trees, or other traditionally lazy install approaches. The two companies are trying different tactics, with Verizon wiggling past with legalese:

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Tara Potter, Verizon's lobbyist, told the council at a hearing on the bill Nov. 16 that the county can't legally require them to act more quickly because Verizon's authority to lay wires for all types of communications comes under a broad federal communications law enacted in 1934, not the cable-franchising laws that govern Comcast.

While Comcast is arguing that the 15 day window is simply no fair:

John Conwell, Comcast's lobbyist, said that 15 calendar days is too restrictive, since Comcast often must get Miss Utility to come and mark where other underground cables are located. Other utilities then must also respond, and sometimes county permits are required, too. Bad weather can interfere and delay action, he said, estimating it should take about 10 business days to get a cable placed under the sod.

Under the proposed law, violating the fifteen day period without negotiating an extension would cost a carrier between $100 and $250 a day. Leaving a wire improperly strung over trees or structures would cost between $500 and $1,000 a day.

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Network Guy
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1 edit

Ha! I like this proposal

No reason for a lazy wire run like the one pictured in this article. Do your job right or not at all.

Of course Verizon and Comcast would argue it though. Some of the IBEW members in my area are lazy fucks as well, and Comcast doesn't wish to pay for competent contractors.
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

Re: Ha! I like this proposal

It would be nice to stumble onto a wire like that near your house. It screams free cable,
Network Guy
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Re: Ha! I like this proposal

Not if you have encrypted digital cable in the neighborhood
NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

Re: Ha! I like this proposal

Yea, that would put a damper on things. Last I checked at a friends house last year, he got nearly every channel including some wild porn throughout the day by hooking his basic cable line into his Digital ready TV.

maartena
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said by Network Guy:

Not if you have encrypted digital cable in the neighborhood
The FCC says that those stations that are available OTA, should also remain unencrypted over the cable. So even if they remove ALL of the analog cable, there will always be a set of 10 to 15 TV stations (depending on your area) you will be able to pick up with any QAM/ATSC tuner, which most modern TV's have built in. For now, FCC also mandates that those channels need to be available in analog.

This allows a cable subscriber to get the FCC mandated bare minimum on all TV's in the house, whether digital or analog.

Of course that doesn't mean that this isn't CABLE THEFT of course, and illegal.
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r81984
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1 edit

Re: Ha! I like this proposal

What kind of theft is it to only pick up the unencrypted free OTA channels over a cable splice???? I wonder what they would seek in damages in that case?
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iansltx

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Hmm, maybe the city should just say that any exposed lines are up for grabs for customers?

Transmaster
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Re: Ha! I like this proposal

said by iansltx:

Hmm, maybe the city should just say that any exposed lines are up for grabs for customers?
Wow!! if the city did that the cables would be buried so fast it would be like magic
Years ago I didn't have cable, and had a antenna up. My line of sight to the where the OTA TV stations where passed right through a cable run on an overhead line. There was so much leakage from the old coax that I would get a number of cable channel the problem was they where interfering with what I wanted to watch. I complaint about interference to the cable company and they just blew me off. So I called to thank them for all of the free channels I was able to receive with my antenna. They fixed it the next day.
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patcat88

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Re: Ha! I like this proposal

Call the FCC.

Matt
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said by maartena:

there will always be a set of 10 to 15 TV stations (depending on your area) you will be able to pick up with any QAM/ATSC tuner, which most modern TV's have built in. For now, FCC also mandates that those channels need to be available in analog.
Yep, but there is nothing stopping the local cable company from making it a total PITA to find them. In the 3 months I used ClearQAM here, Time Warner changed the station locations no less than 6 times.
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Necronomikro

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We have digital available, and while I'm on analog, I sure don't get anything through ClearQAM but some music channels. =/
NormanS
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said by Network Guy:

Not if you have encrypted digital cable in the neighborhood
I took that as literally "stumble"; as in fall and break a bone from tripping over the wire. Had something like that happen to me when the Comcast contractors completed a switch from the old TCI hardline to their newly acquired ATTBI coax. They saw that we were not connected to the tap, and dropped the drop in the yard. I had trouble with my phone (SBC at the time, POTS), and went to the NID to troubleshoot. About 9:30 PM. Hit the Comcast drop at neck level (i.e., I made contact near my Adam's Apple!)

An injury to do lazy install (or uninstall) by Comcast, or their representatives, is a liability that falls on Comcast.

So, break a leg tripping on the lazy install, and get free TV as compensation.
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Norman
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guppy_fish
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City money grab, will do nothing for the customer ... as citys and town governments wither with reduced income, they will come up with all sorts of "consumer based initiatives"

Lipstick on a PIG comes to mind
Kearnstd
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is cable required to keep some channels analog or openly accessable? and if so shouldnt Uverse, FiOS and DTV/DISH also have to do the same.
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1 edit

Re: Ha! I like this proposal

said by Kearnstd:

is cable required to keep some channels analog or openly accessable? and if so shouldnt Uverse, FiOS and DTV/DISH also have to do the same.
Requirements vary by regional government regulations (and, perhaps less so, by the differences in the technologies).

And FiOS and Uverse are telco offerings. They have their own lobbyists working the state capitols, and are known to try to gain advantageous legislation to separate their offerings from cable offerings.

In the past, telco has been regulated at the state level, by PUCs, while cable has been regulated largely at the local level, by franchise agreements overseen by the FCC. But those divisions arose out of the natures of the services: Telephone (PUC) and television (local franchise). The mixing of the services (telephone, television, Internet), and the media (copper pair, coax, and FTTP) has muddied the waters. Governments need to unify their regulatory approaches.
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tmc8080

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dangerous cables

Not properly installing a cable is not just lazy, but ultimately could result in a safety & legal liability problem. I find that the big carriers fighting this regulation quite disturbing.. particularly from Verizon. Why would they want to risk having to do a re-deployment truck roll which would end up costing them MORE than to do the job right in the first place? Are these companies scared someone might sabotage the deployed infrastructure just to see these companies face fines? (hahaha)
Network Guy
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Re: dangerous cables

Verizon would prefer that one places a new order for DSL and cancel an existing account in order to keep a promotional discounted rate instead of making customers go through the trouble of speaking with retention.

So yeah.. I'd believe Verizon would fight something like this.

Sabre
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join:2005-05-17
Having dealt with a lot of underground replacements in my Comcast days, it is true that the process of getting ground marked by Misutility (as they were often intentionally misspelled) could take a very long time, though whether that was due to slowness on Comcast's part or MU's, I never was sure.

I know a lot of underground replacements are done by subcontractors, so Comcast (and probably Verizon) may be worried that they personally would be held at fault when it's actually a lousy subcontractor making a hash of things. (Whether Comcast should be faulted for subcontractor actions is another matter entirely, one not best gotten into here, since it involves a lot of other issues such as which ones Comcast are legally obligated to use, etc.)

I can't speak to Verizon's excuse though, as I'm not familiar with the law they cite.
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Anonymous
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said by tmc8080:

Not properly installing a cable is not just lazy, but ultimately could result in a safety & legal liability problem. I find that the big carriers fighting this regulation quite disturbing.. particularly from Verizon. Why would they want to risk having to do a re-deployment truck roll which would end up costing them MORE than to do the job right in the first place? Are these companies scared someone might sabotage the deployed infrastructure just to see these companies face fines? (hahaha)
Actually most cable cos will require some form of drop bury form which clearly states the cable on the ground is not cable co's liability and the customer is responsible for it. My company does it and if you don't sign you get no cable.

wvsparkey
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Proctorville, OH

Wow... potential burnup

Just hook that up to a neutral grounded tv and watch the potential difference fry the tuner... maybe not today, but in time the voltage diff will toast it. {reground ya house thru the cable line..cute }

ThrowDemsOut
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Delay before burying legit - but 15 days is plenty

A delay before burying cable is completely legit. There are laws in almost every state that prohibit digging until ALL the relevant utilities mark their underground cables; pipes; wire; etc.

And when a repair call is made, they want to get it working again right away, and not make customer wait 2 weeks, so they lay on the grass; across walkways; etc.

BUT, 15 days should be plenty to do that. And the law shouldn't just apply to those companies that need to bury the cable or wire. It HAS TO also apply to the companies that have to come out and mark their existing lines.

And if those companies don't come out and mark, then they should bear ALL THE FINES involved.
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1 edit

Re: Delay before burying legit - but 15 days is plenty

Actually no it is not. What thi sarticle fails to mention, is that the local authority has to PROVIDE permits for most UG burials. Now what part do you think takes the longest, some laborer to digging a ditch or some bureaucrat writting up a piece of paper granting permission?

tfrionli
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pictured is an existing cable run

One of the outputs from the splitter is obviously an existing outlet, so what would you have the installer do? I think this is a shame, putting a splitter on a fence, but where is the rest of the picture? I need more information to call someone lazy.
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joako
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Miss Utility

Seems very bureaucratic. A quick glance on their site seems it takes at least 10 days and the utility can delay it up to 120 days!

Here in Florida they get 2 business days. If they didn't respond, too bad I have the go ahead to dig and am not responsible for the damage.
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CaptainRR
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Re: Miss Utility

I instal new crossings with lights and gates for the railroad. And yes after the call goes out for a dig ticket they have 48 hours and then we go to work. By than everything is usually marked. Most of the time and in rare cases the ones that we do hit are cable companies coax running through culverts and other things so they can run things faster accross the tracks. Its rare though but it has happend to us. As far as I am concerned 15 days is plenty to fix messes. Another thing I work crossings in 5 states and the 48 hours applies to all of them in the mid west.

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said by joako:

Seems very bureaucratic. A quick glance on their site seems it takes at least 10 days and the utility can delay it up to 120 days!
In actual practice it runs about 5 days in my experiences.
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br1252

join:2007-04-10
Norwalk, CT

The notification law

The notification laws are at: »leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504···30000000

And it basically reads: The excavator may commence work after waiting forty-eight hours, beginning 7:00 a.m. the next working day following notice to the notification center.

Details at: »leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504···6-265.17)

So, trying to say that Miss Utility is holding them up is questionable.

- B

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: The notification law

It would be more of a safety issue. Imagine the negative head lines on DSLR if they go ahead and dig and hit a gas main or power cable. Oh wait... Too late a Comcast contractor has already been blasted on the font page editorial.

David
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That won't work in IL

JULIE gets 15 days before you can dig.

»www.illinois1call.com/processing···uest.htm

You can't even start early even if all utilties are located!

»www.illinois1call.com/utility_re···mark.htm

JULIE's idea of "emergency response"

»www.illinois1call.com/utility_re···onse.htm
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br1252

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Re: That won't work in IL

It reads (per »www.illinois1call.com/law_enforc···_2.9._):

"Provide notice not less than 48 hours but no more than 14 calendar days in advance of the start of the excavation or demolition to the owners or operators of the underground utility facilities or CATS facilities in and near the excavation or demolition area through the State‑Wide One‑Call Notice System"

Which means that the excvator must give at least 2 day notice and work must begin within 14 days. Which means you can't call today and do the work in 3 months.

So again, it's basically two working days.

- B
Axekick

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Safe digging starts when you contact JULIE. According to state law, the person actually doing the digging is required to call JULIE with the locate request information at least 48 hours (two working days, excludes weekends and holidays) in advance of the start of excavation. You will be provided with a "dig number" for your records. You must begin your project within 14 days from the time you call and if you want to start your project over the weekend, remember to contact JULIE, Inc. by Wednesday at 4 p.m.

In order to help the utility locator properly identify your project area, JULIE recommends that you mark the area where you will be digging with white paint and/or flags.

PhoenixDown
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They are not lazy, just stupid

Had a Time Warner Cable tech come over when I wasn't home to install cable for my new tenant (2 family home).

All the tech had to do was give the tenant a new cable modem box and turn the service on in the system. Everything worked because everything worked when the last tenant left 2 months prior.

Instead ... the tech, in his infinite genius, decides to toss a ladder up against my house, drill through the wood (hitting a support beam in the process) and HAMMER holes into the brick of the house for the staples.

Mind you why he would want to run the wire along the outside when there is an established entry to the dmarc in the basement is beyond me.

I've been waiting 2 weeks for a manager at Time Warner Cable to call me back about this issue.
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Anonymous
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1 edit

Re: They are not lazy, just stupid

Maybe the cable wasn't adequate. Maybe the cable wasn't routed properly (some installs require drop rerouting so it can be properly grounded). As a cable guy I take pride in what I do and try to do it right every time.

If it's a rented property all a cable co needs is a written permission from the owner and they can run cables any way they need to.

PhoenixDown
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Re: They are not lazy, just stupid

I am the owner and they certainly did not have written permission.

And while I understand the need to sometimes rerun a drop, it should be to the proper dmarc point -- not haphazardly done by drilling holes in my house. Besides, the tech said he didn't have the right equipment to test the quality of the drop. Not the right answer at all and certainly not professional.
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Zen6

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Re: They are not lazy, just stupid

I would recommend you be there any time an install takes place. I used to see some horrible work done on mdu's when a LL was not present. Tenants could care lass about damage to your building and tell techs anything to get what they want.
biochemistry

join:2003-05-09
92361
I had a stupid cable installer try to do the same thing in the house I'm renting. Then the landlord came and showed him how we were already wired inside the house. He ended up running a cable from the telephone poll in front of my house to the box already attached to it. (The previous tenant, my landlord actually, had never subscribed to cable though all the wiring was present - just not connected to the cable line going down my street)
xj31

join:2005-09-25
Lake Villa, IL

Sounds Like A Plan

Comcast left my neighbors cable laying across my yard for over a year.I kept calling ,they would send someone out,they would look at it and say another crew would have to bury it.I finally had an"accident" with the lawn mower.It was buried the next day.

See 10 replies to this post

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Totally fair.

Not only fair, but they should also be fined by the hour if they disrupt another carrier's lines, or any other utility services as well. Maybe that would teach them to act like professionals.

- A
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dn0

join:2005-07-05
USA

Not one of you mentioned WINTER!!

Have been dealing with underground lines for 20 years. In my part of the Great USA the frost gets down to 4-5 feet deep in the winter. That frozen dirt is as tough as concrete. How do you think a homeowner will feel when the cable or phone company has to bring in Jack Hammers and excavators or back hoes to bury a little wire within 15 days in January?? You cannot repair frozen dirt until it thaws.

See 7 replies to this post
sameshtdd

join:2006-01-04
Teaneck, NJ

10 business days = 14 full days

Unless my math is wrong, Monday-Friday x2 is 10 business days, add in two weekends you are up to 14 days. So what is Comcast arguing?

Anonymous
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2 edits

Not so lazy

OK as I cable guy I am offended by this phrase "lazy installs". I simply don't do drop bury because it's not my job (as in I'm not allowed to do it), my company pays another company to do it and it can take up to 30 days. And in the mean time everything needs to be located first. If the ground freezes up it will be done next spring.

Cable needs to be routed properly following easements and if that means it needs to go across your neighbor's lawn so be it. There is nothing they can do. If they damage it multiple times they can get into trouble. Easement access is guaranteed by franchise agreements.

And customer always assumes full liability so whatever happens my company is not responsible. I see no reason to shorten the time frame at all.
Mr Matt

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City of Baltamore has a weapon that cannot be stopped.

All the City of Baltimore has to do is enforce the National Electrical Code (NEC). Send an electrical inspector out to red tag the installation if it fails to conform to the NEC. The CATV grounding block is to be connected to the same ground as the electrical and telephone service is.

Palm Beach County, Florida started to enforce the NEC after a couple of Adelphia installers improperly grounded installations and customers television sets were destroyed by nearby lightning strikes. After the NEC was enforced the only time a customer lost their electronics was a direct lightning strike.

doublea

join:2007-06-04
Petaluma, CA

Comcast is guilty

Comcast came out and installed cable at my buisness (residential home) about 6 months ago. They told me that they needed to get diffrent equiptment to properly run the line, so they loosly ran it across the dirt along the driveway.... its been that way ever since... although the house is a end unit, and the cable is compleatly invisable, and no one wlaks by it.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
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Re: Comcast is guilty

So much for teaching your kids to stay away from "downed" power lines.

gar187er
I do this for a living

join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
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thank you karl

thanks for posting a pic completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

This was about temp drops being left unburied. which over 75% of the time are handled by contractors and not by the cable cos directly. forms are filled out, customers sign a waiver, and its submitted to the company for them to come out and bury.

the pic posted is of a lazy install.

the topic should be lazy drop crews.

installs have nothing to do with drop buries.

here in DE temps are laid all the time. Except to cross roads...gotta be creative about those....hell we've even left parked bucket trucks on the side of the road to run cable over a road until a crew can get out there to bore a road. and as with permits they take time...and money, especially when dealing with subdivisions....

i along with every other cable guy on here would appreciate a change in the title of this article...

"baltimore to fine for unburied cable drops" would work....
ibpitcher2

join:2003-10-29
New York, NY

fines = need for caps!

uh oh, if the cable companies get fined, they will need to charge us by the gigabyte!
raydsltech

join:2004-07-04
Concord, NC

drops

I am not condoning poor workmanship in any way. Many of these drop troubles can be blamed on the company. If anyone reading this works in this biz, you know what talking about. Cheap company practices like not installing enough serving terminals in a neighborhoods is a good example. The company is hurry hurry hurry on everything, they may not give you the time you need so techs cut corners. Customers doing yard work and cutting or damaging drops leads to new ones being laid out. Not having enough time to try and locate a fault and repair a drop also leads to a tech slinging out a temp to keep moving.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

I worked for a county court

TW took well over 8 months to bury the cable - it was run over by the lawn mower guy (who had missed it for 6 prior months) and it was yanked out of uts housing which could not be secured because the cable was on the grass.

Absolutely idiotic and dangerous to boot.
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Brian

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