Baltimore Wants To Know Why They Aren't Worthy Of FiOS Verizon denies redlining, says their focus is simply elsewhere... Tipped by Bob61571 
With the exception of major cities like New York, Philadelphia, and Washington DC (where Verizon has signed citywide franchise agreements), Verizon's first $23 billion wave of fiber to the home installs are pretty much done. Verizon has stopped negotiating new franchises, and are trying to beef up subscriber counts in installed markets. There's been no mention of a next wave of deployments -- so if your neighborhood didn't get FiOS the first go round, you may be waiting for some time. But you're not alone. Baltimore residents and several members of the Baltimore city council are rather annoyed that their city wasn't deemed worthy of a place on Verizon's FiOS priority list. Locals complain to the Baltimore Messenger that Comcast has a lock on what passes for competition in the city, and that Verizon's avoiding deployment. Verizon has repeatedly since 2005) denied accusations that they "redline" (or pick installs based on income or race), and sent this explanation to the Messenger: Verizon is not deploying FiOS in Baltimore City or in any other new areas in Maryland or across the country at this time because we're now focused on delivering our FiOS services in those communities where we already have approved cable franchises and where we already have begun to build our FiOS network," said spokeswoman Sandra Arnette. "We have extensive deployment obligations in several states and are working to fulfill them." Verizon gets more definitive when asked if they're redlining: "Race, ethnicity and income are never factors in this decision," she said in her e-mail. "Verizon does not redline. We never have and never will. It's illegal, immoral and counter to our century-old legacy of providing good service to Baltimore residents. Our commitment to diversity is evident in many communities where FiOS is now offered, such as Dundalk, Essex, Glen Burnie, Milford Mills, Randallstown and Woodlawn." So what does go into Verizon's decisions of who gets FiOS? Verizon has never been willing to say, but it's likely a long list of factors are considered, and it would be unlikely those don't include some fairly granular social and economic analysis when trying to project timelines for a return on their investment. Verizon also has a bit of a history of playing hardball with local regulators, threatening to withhold network upgrades from towns or cities who do things Verizon doesn't like (like making them pay property taxes, or failing to support the passage of laws Verizon's lobbying for on the state level). Primarily though, Verizon's looking at installation logistics in each market they consider for FiOS. For a while Verizon avoided urban areas because of apartment complex installation issues, instead focusing on more suburban markets. But with the development of smaller networking gear designed for apartments and bendable fiber, those issues have largely been overcome -- but only in the last few years. In cities like New York, Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg says their primary obstacle now is dealing with apartment landlords and incumbent cable providers. We're all curious about what Verizon does next in terms of FiOS, especially as the carrier continues to sell off less profitable markets and shift their focus to LTE wireless service. FiOS currently passes (and that means the fiber gets close, but doesn't necessarily serve) about 15.4 million homes, or roughly 48% of Verizon's service markets. Penetration in those markets is about 28% for broadband and 24% for TV, numbers Verizon's CEO has stated he'd like to see closer to 40% before moving forward with FiOS. More than half of Verizon's customers (including Baltimore) are waiting.
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 VanPremium join:2009-07-08 New Orleans, LA | If Verizon is trying to beef up in places, they feel that they would be best served financially, I can't really say I fault them.
I know that in my business, I pick and chooses activities and places to do business that I feel would best serve my business and the future of my current clients and partners. | |
|  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | Re: If Verizon is trying to beef up in places, they feel The big difference being you were never a monopoly providing essential utility to citizens on entire regions. Verizon was, and how they move forward is of great interest to those that are their customers. For one, it means the availability (OR NOT) of the latest and greatest products and services offered by the company. It could mean being sold off to an incompetent although well meaning smaller telecom company that results in life threatening 9-11 outages, delayed installations, and delayed technician visits.
I don't fault Verizon for picking their deployment areas carefully, but it is very different for them than it is for most other companies out there based on history. | |
|  |  |  openbox9Premium join:2004-01-26 japan kudos:2 | Re: If Verizon is trying to beef up in places, they feel said by morbo:The big difference being you were never a monopoly providing essential utility to citizens on entire regions. Verizon was, and how they move forward is of great interest to those that are their customers. VZ still provides the required dial tone utility to entire regions. Are you concerned with the markets the VZ wants to sell? | |
|  |  |  | | FiOS is an "essential utility"? I know Verizon doesn't want to hear it, but there are a lot of people in the world who get by without television or phone service. Is their service desirable? Without a doubt. Is it essential? Um... not really. | |
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 |  Mark F join:2007-08-01 Fort Wayne, IN | FIOS customers in Oregon, Indiana and Washington aren't to happy with that. They give us the best internet and TV there is and now, just over two years later, they want to take it away. Mark F | |
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 wdoa join:2001-10-16 Spencer, MA | steadily increasing prices... is why they will not be approaching the 40% penetration mark. In areas that have FIOS rates have been skyrocketing. Expect Verizon to sell of most of us copper/landline/DSL customers before we are through the decade. Competition in broadband, that's a laugh. | |
|  2 edits | Fiber is a little lacking here in Baltimore County 2 years and counting that the people quite literally a grand total of 1 city block away from me have fiber. 2 years and counting Verizon has failed to even do so much as paint the block here.
Locals complain to the Baltimore Messenger that Comcast has a lock on what passes for competition in the city...
...and the county. Seriously, my present Competition to Comcast right now is "linksys". | |
|  |  jus10 join:2009-08-04 Sterling, VA | Re: Fiber is a little lacking here in Baltimore County Well to be fair, "linksys" probably has the greatest footprint of any "ISP" in the country ...
Baltimore has CLEAR though right? | |
|  |  KrisnatharokCaveat EmptorPremium join:2009-02-11 Earth Orbit kudos:7 | Here in Northern Virginia there's FIOS literally a block away. At my apartment complex, though? Nope. Just Comcast. | |
|  |  |  NPGMBR join:2001-03-28 Arlington, VA | Re: Fiber is a little lacking here in Baltimore County Well I have had FIOS TV, Net and Phone in my apartment complex in Arlington, VA for about three years now and love it. Luckily for me the management in my complex is a bit more forward thinking on (some) issues and they were very much willing to allow Verizon to install and give Comast competition.
Many other apartment complexes in Arlington are in long-term exclusive contracts with Comcast but all the new buildings coming up in Arlington give residents access to both Comcast and Verizon. | |
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 |  | | Have it here in Catonsville. | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Are you in the same CO as the FIOS block 1 block away from you? | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Fiber is a little lacking here in Baltimore County said by patcat88:Are you in the same CO as the FIOS block 1 block away from you? Indeed. Hell, I'm in the same 4 digit zip suffix. | |
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 spewakR.I.P DadkinsPremium join:2001-08-07 Elk Grove, CA kudos:1 | Come on Hon! Show Charm city the love with some of dat' fiber hon! -- The weekend is here, grab a can of beer!
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|  Punchline join:2005-10-11 University Of Richmond, VA | bmore It's all in the game, yo. All in the game. | |
|  1 edit | Oh, give it up already We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. | |
|  |  JeepMattC'mon the UPremium join:2001-12-28 Wilmington, DE kudos:2 | Re: Oh, give it up already Here in DE - they have FIOS run in the northern suburbs of Wilmington, but also have it up in some of the most ghetto sections of the city as well.
No cherry picking here.. -- "ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!" | |
|  |  | | that's not redlining. Why? Cause they're giving it to someone that has a lower income class than you and/or their house is worth LESS than your's. -- www.two-pugs.com www.twopugsbrand.com | |
|  |  |  OwlSaverOwlSaverPremium join:2005-01-30 Berwyn, PA | Re: Oh, give it up already Many, many years ago (prior to divestuture), when I worked for AT&T. At that time, 90% of any decision like this was made based on engineering. While much has changed, from what I hear, the engineering concerns are the primary factor in making deployments. It seems to me that they could not redline even if they wnated to. | |
|  |  |  |  tiger72SexaT duorPPremium join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO kudos:1 | Re: Oh, give it up already don't forget state regulatory groups, NIMBY's, etc. etc.
I love how cities like Baltimore whine about not getting some hot new service, and then once that service comes they whine about it being deployed too slowly, having boxes in yards, tearing up streets for trenching, etc... -- "What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning." -United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
|  |  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: Oh, give it up already said by tiger72:don't forget state regulatory groups, NIMBY's, etc. etc. I love how cities like Baltimore whine about not getting some hot new service, and then once that service comes they whine about it being deployed too slowly, having boxes in yards, tearing up streets for trenching, etc... Regulation? In Maryland?! Don't take this personal but that's laughable. If regulation even hinted at existence, BGE wouldn't have been able to raise power rates by 5.5%... then another 80%... then another 100% on top of that - in a six month period for a total 185.5% rate hike, without some form of regulatory body coming in and saying "Now just a minute, what the hell is going on here?". Now I know the power company and a telecommunications company have absolutely nothing to do with each other but the principle still applies. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Oh, give it up already Actually you can blame the general assembly for that. They are the ones that sign a contract for rates to be frozen for 7 years. Do you think the shark will not eat when given the chance. For those 7 years that everyone else was getting steady rates increase you guys didn't get one. And now you are going to cry about it...
Government is to blame here, and most of the time with everything else they are at fault. I bet they told verizon how they wanted things done and verizon told them where to put it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Oh, give it up already said by papi4baby:Actually you can blame the general assembly for that. They are the ones that sign a contract for rates to be frozen for 7 years. Do you think the shark will not eat when given the chance. For those 7 years that everyone else was getting steady rates increase you guys didn't get one. And now you are going to cry about it... Considering my bill personally went from $65 to nearly $200, yeah I'm going to lament over it. If that's wrong, sorry that it offends you. | |
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 |  |  |  |  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL | said by tiger72:I love how cities like Baltimore whine about not getting some hot new service, and then once that service comes they whine about it being deployed too slowly, having boxes in yards, tearing up streets for trenching, etc... Cities like Baltimore, eh? And what kind of cities are those exactly? -- TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
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 |  |  |  | | said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. Exactly. It's all about population density.
That's why the roach motels of NYC will get it whereas million dollar mansions won't. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Oh, give it up already said by fifty nine:said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. Exactly. It's all about population density. That's why the roach motels of NYC will get it whereas million dollar mansions won't. Actually it`s not as simple as that. Higher population density doesn`t necessarily make it easier to install. There`s actually a middle-density sweet spot for lowest cost of installation. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Oh, give it up already That's exactly what has happened around Baltimore. Most of the surrounding counties have Fios, especially in smaller towns in Harford and Baltimore counties. Engineering of course in important, but it also will come down to Verizon deploying Fios in a few areas where it's easiest/profitable, and using that as a lever to get favorable legislation or tax breaks everywhere else. | |
|  |  |  |  lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Are you saying people that bought $650,000 homes are too dense? | |
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 |  LinklistPremium join:2002-03-03 Longport, NJ kudos:5 | said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. And besides Philadelphia(with a deal) is no different in ethnic makeup than is Baltimore(without a deal). If anything is involved, it is probably politics and the willingness of Baltimore pols not to play along with Verizon's demands. | |
|  |  OmegaDisplaced OhioanPremium join:2002-07-30 Cheyenne, WY | said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. If you're coughing up $300k just to live in a condo, you make a pretty good living as well and most likely have disposable income for things like FIOS. -- Whats smells like blue? | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. Sometimes you have to go through the poor areas to GET to the more affluent ones. -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Oh, give it up already +1
FIOS is deployed by CO. Not by neighborhood or city, but the neighborhoods/cities that make up a particular CO do influence which COs get picked. NYC is/was deployed first on an experimental basis (no FIOS TV yet) in its affluent white suburban outer ring (but still in city limits), then Manhattan was started and some large MDU complexes/new builds, and now they are working from the outside suburban ring inwards towards Manhattan. Working from the outside in also means working from low density to high density. There is some small exceptions, to the rich affluent suburb rule with NYC's deployment. High density and medium density white rich areas in the middle ring of NYC still have zero FIOS (Forest Hills, Park Slope, Bay Ridge). They also have built out FIOS in a high crime, black, poor, but low density suburb outer ring area of NYC (St Albans/South Jamaica). There is a very strong precedent that every new CO built out must be adjacent to an already built out CO.
Whether its race, income, or housing type is debatable. A buried suburb gets its before an urban aerial. Supposedly the reason why Japan and Europe have FTTH is because of high density and why FTTH is cheap there is the high density, yet Verizon stays away from high density with FIOS. Something smells. Is saying "suburb"/low density a euphemism for white america?
The "redlining" referred to Baltimore and other places can only happen in ex-Bell Atlantic areas, where VZ has a urban, suburban, exurban, and rural monopoly.
Ex-GTE VZ areas are rarely/never old urban. GTE set up shop only in unprofitable rural areas the baby bells refused to wire 100 years ago. Some of those rural areas todays are the suburbs and post WW2 new cities ringing the old baby bell urban areas. Extremely rarely ex-GTE VZ will deploy FIOS into baby bell areas, and then only a tiny bit (see Texas FIOS). So ex-GTE areas cant experience FIOS redlining, except on the distinct suburban vs rural aspect. | |
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 |  | | said by Bobcat79:We can't get FiOS in our $650,000 houses, but it's available in the $300,000 condos, so give up on the redlining bullcrap. I'd say that's still redlining. Because a $300,000 condo costs more per square foot than a $650,000 single family home. | |
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 PaulGo join:2005-01-29 Gaithersburg, MD | It's A Business Decision It costs Verizon thousands of dollars to wire each house on a street. They need to prove it to themselves it is worth it. Verizon needs to establish the correct business model in terms of products and prices to see if they can get a profitable business model. Once they determine they can penetrate enough of the market to have a decent return on investment then they will proceed to wire additional areas. If they can't I guess they will invest in more profitable areas. | |
|  |  See 14 replies to this post | |
 | | Does Baltimore Deserve FiOS? Has the City of Baltimore done anything at all to lure Verizon into making the investment? Have they offered to connect city services to it, speed up the permitting process, offer tax incentives, share right of way, provide electrical services, or the like? | |
|  |  | | Re: Does Baltimore Deserve FiOS? You know how Baltimore City lured cable in back in the early 80's? By finding ways to get as much money as they could out of them. Finally, United Cable came in and it took them 4 years to wire everything up. During that time, you needed boxes and, for a month, you couldn't get service because they had no boxes left because they were all stolen. People didn't pay their bills and moved out taking their boxes with them. It is an expensive place to deal with.
I can see why Verizon would not want to deal with the city. | |
|  |  |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Does Baltimore Deserve FiOS? Still no. VZ doesn't build FIOS for Internet Only and DTV resale. VZ initially built out FIOS on speculation, without TV franchises in place, but they stopped that years ago. Nowadays, if no franchise, no FIOS.
Baltimore would never agree to a cherry picking franchise with VZ (think RCN-type franchise), so full buildout is the only kind of franchise that will happen, the question is how long of a build out period will VZ and BC demand? If its long enough, its de facto redlining (ghetto doesn't see anything for 5 or 10 years, an eternity in the life of a corporation). NYC got a 7 year buildout (2008), DC got 10 years (2008), Philly 7 years (2009). I guess VZ will want atleast 10 years for a buildout of Baltimore. Boston also has ZERO FIOS for the record. | |
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 |  old_dawg"I Know Noting..." join:2001-09-22 Westminster, MD | said by MarshallG:Has the City of Baltimore done anything at all to lure Verizon into making the investment? Have they offered to connect city services to it, speed up the permitting process, offer tax incentives, share right of way, provide electrical services, or the like? Hell, if the former chief crook in charge mayor Sheila Dixon was still on her throne, it would only take a few "gift cards" or all expenses paid "business" trips courtesy of Verizon and Bawlmer would have FIOS on every block. To go with all da ho's and crack dealers.  -- "Our network engineers are aware of the problem..." | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Who needs Verizon or Comcast ...? Linksys ISP, LOL. I need an extender since my network stop working. LOL> Seriously. | |
|  |  | | Ah, I remember hearing of this earlier today. Funny stuff. | |
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 alchav join:2002-05-17 Palm Desert, CA | Did anyone in Baltimore ever ask Verizon for FiOS?
Come on Guys, I have been saying this for years, if someone really wants Fiber they have to get together come up with a Plan and Ask. Now years later after Verizon has spent Billions laying Fiber in areas that wanted them there and needed upgrading, it's a little too late. Verizon has to recoup some of the money they spent and people don't want to pay the price of FTTH. People don't want to pay more than $50/mo, so their higher tiers are not selling, so of course Verizon has to cut back. I'm sure if Baltimore really wants Verizon FiOS, they could come up with some kind of a deal. | |
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 perki join:2008-12-01 Santa Maria, CA | Oh ya income has nothing to do with it.... And thats why they have FIOS all over the ghetto... wait....  | |
|  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | Re: Oh ya income has nothing to do with it.... said by perki:And thats why they have FIOS all over the ghetto... wait.... But be honest... who cares? Personally, if I were a big business spending multi-billions of dollars, I would have no problem stating that "I'm going to deploy services, at first, in areas where I can make the fastest return".. then I'd look at where my CURRENT product has the best return, the highest dollar spent, the LEAST amount of non-pay customers and late paying customers, and then deploy where it made financial sense... and yes, I'd COMPLETELY throw out any affirmative action of PC stuff in the process. After wave 1 of deployment, and when I was paying off the first round deployment expenses, then I'd then go back and start hitting the other areas... "RISK" areas.. ones that are problematic in generating money, and the areas that have the least amount of collections issues.
So really... in business, income does matter. Would you rather they deploy to an area that is less "fortunate" knowing you're likely to have low return first JUST to make yourself look good? OR, as a CEO of a company, are you going to do what's right for the business and it's survival and deploy where you KNOW you'll get a better return up front? We want to hold CEO's to the wall for bad decisions in every other case... so why is Fios from Verizon any different?
I'll say it out loud... if I were the CEO of Verizon, I'm NOT putting a 23 billion dollar project in the "ghetto" first.. they'd be the last area to get deployed.. UNLESS that "ghetto" had a low rate of non-pay, and a higher rate of purchases of advanced services... do you not agree? | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Oh ya income has nothing to do with it.... Sounds like redlining to me. So would you admit to it, or lie about it like Verizon does? | |
|  |  |  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | Re: Oh ya income has nothing to do with it.... I don't know or care why Verizon does it... call it redlining or not...
Admitting it... that's the fine line... and I know why Verizon isn't answering the question.. for one, it's really no one's business why they do it. And, I already did answer that question in my post... no matter WHAT they say or do in public, they will ALWAYS offend at least one group of people.
How do you think it would be taken if they openly said "We don't make enough profit in these areas and have too many troubles collecting on bills to make the decision to deploy in this area first. This is an expensive project and we need the most return in the shortest amount of time"... you think the public can handle that? NO! They can't handle the truth! People are always too ready to be offended... and that is the truth.
The bottom line is we all know why they are doing what they are doing.. I outlined it in my original post. Would I say it? No.. would I mean it? Yes...
So, while we're using derogatory terms like "redlining" ... please tell me, why should they deploy in areas that are going to be bask and risky business decisions when they can deploy in OTHER areas first?
You guys always seem to think they will be completely left out.. they need to deploy expensive projects in areas that make most sense to their BUSINESS'S BOTTOM LINE first.. the other areas come in later.. that's the truth.. remember, they are in business to make money, not do good deeds and look good in the public eye. They're a utility, not your friend.
So, to answer your question in short, I'd do exactly like they have... not answer. It's no one's business. The public is not owed an answer, quite honestly.
Honestly, it sounds like, to me, that people are trying to put them on trial.. to get a "gotchya" on them..
Let me ask YOU.. would YOU admit to it? or would you lie, like verizon does, as you say...
(and I already know your answer becuase you're already calling them a liar.. sorry, but it's a good business decision, and the simple fact they won't give you the answer YOU want doesn't make it a lie.. sorry, it doesn't) | |
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 fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 1 edit | Boo Hoo Baltimore... There are plenty of other cities probably not feeling "worthy" right now too.. there are going to be those at the first of the line and those at the back of the line.. sounds like some people are just whining.. they'll live and get over it.
".....and are trying to beef up subscriber counts in installed markets."
Yea.. what's wrong with this? Maybe they want to start making some money back on the billions already spent.. is that a bad thing?? I think the answer is clear on the next quote...
"Baltimore residents and several members of the Baltimore city council are rather annoyed that their city wasn't deemed worthy of a place on Verizon's FiOS priority list."
Maybe it's becuase people that sit on City Councils are usually dolts.. out of work mothers, lawyers who can't make their own practice work, or people who have no clue how to run a business.
This is ONE case where I WILL stand behind Verizon.. Verizon is a business.. they know how to make money (be it right or wrong, they have money)... Government has NOT been able to demonstrate restraint when it comes to spending. These idiots on city councils just back and ask WHY is Verizon beefing up subscribers on a multi billion dollar project FIRST instead of taking care of poor Baltimore? Poor neglected Baltimore? There are plenty of other cities that haven't been wired for Fios yet.. are they bitching?
I have a hard time finding too many politicians that understand fiscal responsibility when it comes to money. They just think money grows on trees and it should just be spent recklessly. Verizon wants to make some money first.. is that okay Baltimore?
I'm sorry, but I have a real time reading stories about Government bitching becuase a company chooses to do the right thing and is making a smart business decision.
and...
"So what does go into Verizon's decisions of who gets FiOS? Verizon has never been willing to say,"
It doesn't matter the answer to this question becuase however they answer it, SOMEONE will always find something wrong with it, be offended by it, or call bullshit to it... right? Quite honestly, HOW and WHERE they deploy, for the most part,.. the important reasons, is quite honestly no one's business. IF they want to say, that's their choice. Again, I am NO fan of Verizon, but I WILL defend them in areas I feel they're acting in an acceptable way.. people these days feel they're owed answers to issues they really aren't entitled to. | |
|  |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA kudos:6 | Re: Boo Hoo Baltimore... You're right, Baltimore's righteous anger is misdirected. No city can show up at Verizon with a gun and an Ethernet plug and say, "now roll fiber here."
But Verizon is a great company (as you point out) with a great product. If I were Baltimore, I'd naturally look to them first and really encourage (whine, cajole) them to build there. If not VZ, then whom? -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Boo Hoo Baltimore... They recently lost their mayor. She stole gift cards for the needy and kept them for herself. She pleaded guilty in exchange for probation before judgement so she could collect her pension of over $80,000/year.
Baltimore City is nothing but corruption at all levels of government and if I were Verizon, I wouldn't go there either. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Boo Hoo Baltimore... But Comcast operates in Philly with a smile... I'm just sayin'... | |
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 |  | | Wow fiber, you really love corporations, hate governments, and hate people. Boy are you strange. | |
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 ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP join:2004-03-07 Canada | Just in Verizon thinks you're Baltiless. | |
|  | | Niothing to do with franchises This has nothing to do with franchises. They have a franchise in my town and only wired up 1/4 of it. They now refuse to wire up anymore.
This has nothing to do with franchises or anything like that . | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Niothing to do with franchises Depends what the franchise says. Suburban/rural ones have density clauses. Cities such as NYC, DC, Philly have 100% reach requirement. | |
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 | | What is the average credit rating of Baltimore? What is the average credit rating of Baltimore city residents? Maybe it is much lower than the people in other areas that Verizon serves?
I don't even know if you can get an average like that. Seems likely tho.
Also, what is the theft and damage rate? Much higher than "normal" I bet.
If I am correct, can you blame them?
After all, car insurance cost much more in the city. | |
|  cline3621Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREENPremium join:2006-06-14 Clarksville, TN | Baltimore? I heard a couple rumors about Baltimore. Number 1 - Is the city council of Baltimore still contemplating changing the name of Baltimore to 'Crackton'?
Number 2 - Is it also true, that the only way to safely pass through Baltimore at night is if your a bullet?
»crimebaltimore.com/
Just wondering is all. | |
|  |  | | Re: Baltimore? That's err... rather stereotypically callous I would say. | |
|  |  |  NYR 56Premium join:2000-12-05 Smithtown, NY | Re: Baltimore? said by PapaMidnight:That's err... rather stereotypically callous I would say. Baltimore is a crime-ridden hell hole. I don't even need to use stereotypes to say that, the crime statistics show it clear as day, not to mention personal experiences. I don't blame Verizon for not wanting anything to do with that place. | |
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 | | Ghetto Well ghetto ares in NYC are high population like certain parts of the bronx i live by pehlam bay/Throggs neck and its like a middle class area and its FiOS all over here but when i go to the ghetto like grand concourse or fordam or south bronx all they have is apartments and Cablevision. | |
|  |  | | Re: Ghetto It could be worse they could only have time warner. Cablevision isnt as bad as people make it out to be. | |
|  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Ghetto Cablevision wired all of their areas with Boost and D3, even non VZ areas. They didn't have to. | |
|  |  |  2 edits | said by majortom1029:It could be worse they could only have time warner. Cablevision isnt as bad as people make it out to be. Exactly. Comcrap is worse than TWC. Cablevision really is not bad compared to Comcrap and TWC. It's getting better with the Docsis 3.0 modems
Verizon can take their fios and shove it up their asses. Clear is supposed to be coming to NYC soon from what I hear with WiMax. If I ever moved out of a CV area, I'd just get DirecTV (close enough PQ to Fios) and Clear for internet and voice | |
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 | | More evidence of cherry picking Baltimore City is surrounded by FiOS. They have it in just about all the suburbs around here. If this isn't cherry picking, then I don't know what is. | |
|  | | Decision making process for FiOS deployment I recall being told by a Verizon engineer that the primary factors involved in FiOS deployment are:
1) Age of old copper plant/ IOW, how soon will the copper plant require complete replacement. If an area had its most recent copper plant upgrade 10 years ago and another area had it copper plant upgrade 30 years ago. The 30 year old upgrade takes precedent as Verizon does not want to deploy new copper cable and then end up placing Fiber Optic cable within a couple of years. Basically copper depreciation plays a role.
2) Feasibility of buildout/cost to build. Areas with higher ratio of aerial plant vs buried/mdu plant are easier to deploy and cost per homes passed is much lower. Population density also is a factor as the more homes passed per mile, the cheaper it is to deploy
3) Franchise negotiations/HOA/Permits/Taxes (basically town/city nuisances)
4) Expected ROI. Typically areas where there are a higher number of DSL subscribers will be more likely to migrate to FiOS versus areas that have lower DSL adoption rates. Obviously ratio of nonpaying/credit risk customers affects return on investment. You could have 1000 customers who want FiOS but only 10 of them will pay their bill on time...maybe not so smart of an investment.
A lot of factors go into Verizon determining where to deploy and I believe they weigh all of these factors together and then determine where it would make the most sense to deploy. FiOS is a big gamble for Verizon that can make or break them. As said by other posters if Baltimore wants FiOS that badly, they need to give Verizon incentive to deploy. Perhaps if the city could guarantee Verizon would get instant 40% market share and timely paying customers I'm sure Verizon's engineers will have Baltimore on the drawing board tomorrow, and Verizon's trucks will be stringing up fiber next month.  | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Decision making process for FiOS deployment said by waiting4fios:I recall being told by a Verizon engineer that the primary factors involved in FiOS deployment are: 1) Age of old copper plant/ IOW, how soon will the copper plant require complete replacement. If an area had its most recent copper plant upgrade 10 years ago and another area had it copper plant upgrade 30 years ago. The 30 year old upgrade takes precedent as Verizon does not want to deploy new copper cable and then end up placing Fiber Optic cable within a couple of years. Basically copper depreciation plays a role. The cable has to be upgraded anyways. How low can you go % wise with working pairs in the cable? CLECs, grandmas, security alarms, T1s, all want and will have copper. | |
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 Vamp5c077Premium join:2003-01-28 MD kudos:1 | FIOS in the ghetto, really? Most of Baltimore is a ghetto, why spend all that money to run FIOS in a trashed up run down area? -- 26/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com | |
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