Battle Rages On Between Cafes And Wi-Fi Users

...don't be surprised if folks take you up on your offer.

There's pros and cons for everything. If the cons of offering free Wifi outweigh the pros, then you don't offer it. I didn't need to go to Haas to figure that one out.

True. I wonder though. How the hell are people able to sit at a damn coffee shop for hours, studying and doing their homework with all the damn noise going on? I have to be a ta quiet place to be able to study or read anything. Plus, coffee spills on laptops = awesome.

I couldn't get that either... Just go to a library FFS, I hate lugging my laptop around, don't know how some people can do it.

They probably think its hip to sit there with their laptop

Especially if it's labeled with a piece of glowing fruit.

It is free for "customers".

Sitting in a seat for three hours, leeching wifi does not make one a customer, it makes them homeless.

I agree. Our country is becoming a graveyard of good intentions because people only think of themselves.

About 15 years ago I attended a Microsoft technical conference where the CIO of the major investment company described a situation early in his career where a service provider signed a contract with them. I forget all of the details but it turned out that the service provider grossly underestimated their costs and they could not keep the contract. His company certainly would have been within their right to enforce the contract not unlike the folks who scream "...unlimited means unlimited..." and "...if you advertise free WiFi, it's a free for all..." However, the CIO said he realized that to do so would have put the service provider out of business causing his company to be without the service it needed. He did the right thing and renegotiated the contract so that his company could get what it needed and the service provider could turn a reasonable profit. I've never forgotten his words when he said that a contract really isn't a contract when it doesn't provide reasonable equity.

With respect to free WiFi, I'm quite certain every coffee house provides the service for paying customers. Furthermore I'm sure it's not equitable for anyone to expect to use that service for three hours after buying one cup of coffee.

Isn't this just common sense? Have today's generations been raised with a sense of entitlement that blinds them to what should be obvious?

I truly believe capitalism and it's belief in private property is the best social system man has yet to create. However, this laissez faire system won't work unless our society practices basic ethics and morals. Don't we all know this to be true or do we believe we have a right do die on a hill screaming that unlimited means unlimited?

Think about it. Do you want Starbucks to offer free WiFi if you buy a cup of coffee or do you want to press the free issue to the point that they finally have to pull the plug?

Isn't this just common sense? Have today's generations been raised with a sense of entitlement that blinds them to what should be obvious?

This is so true - today's generation thinks everyone and everything owes them

Has there ever been a current generation that hasn't said that about the next generation?

No but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Society goes through cycles just like a capitalist economy. Fortunately society moves slower than economies and it requires a lot more generations before things get bad enough that they receive a correction.

The modern idea of society is over and we are now entering post-modernity. Some believe we will shift away from a "me" attitude to a "community" attitude. In moderation this could be good but it could also mean socialism and the thought police. I know health care is hot but it's a great example.

I believe it's broken and we need to do something but what happens when in the public interest, folks start getting the idea of outlawing salt or Big Mac hamburgers?

Several cities are already outlawing certain common food items.

Have you been to a library recently?

They are anything but quiet - no "shh" etiquette any more. While I disagree, I can understand PC librarian think - noisy, chatty kids playing video games, watching DVDs or yapping on cellphones are still kids not on the streets shooting or stabbing each other...

Libraries are also de-facto homeless daycare/shelters, and most stink to high heaven of body odor and worse, as well as the chemical attempts to sanitize the place, which linger forever in the carpet.

Starbucks actually *wants* loungers - its part of their marketing strategy to make the place appear popular. And contrary to the usual bashing, their coffee is actually less expensive than Denny's, McDonald's, Winchell's/Yum-Yum, etc.

I don't care for anything corporate or franchised, but if I'm stuck on the far side of town for several hours, a Starbucks is the most predictable productive place of refuge, free of most annoyances.

Burnt & stale is still burnt & stale. I don't care if it's called the Pope's Blend. Starschmucks sucks and I won't pay six bucks for a thimbleful of swill.

I never paid more than two bucks for a cup of joe at Starbucks. If you paid six bucks they saw you coming.

My last cup of Pope's Blend cost me $1.35.

It isn't quite as good as McBurntSwill (which costs $2), but the benefit of being apart from McPlayGround and thug moms is priceless.

They aren't *really* studying. Just pretending while they subtly hope to get laid. Maybe getting 10% of real studying done.

Home may be quieter, but I go to an Atlanta Bread Company location a few miles away mainly to get away from the distractions of home. (like, my games, downloaded tv, anime)

It's pretty easy, actually, we're not necessarily talking about starbucks here, but a handful of local places.

I don't even think this is really an interwebs problem. Before the internet, people would park there asses in these places and read a book or study. Same problem for the business owner really...

This article is also pretty specific to NYC, which is a place where people like say, me, don't live but often have to spend a day there with no "home" between gigs.

I used to study in a Hardee's all night that offered free coffee refills.

Not sure I could have pulled it off during the day, but it actually was an excellent study location in the middle of the night with a non-stop stream of caffeine and 59 cent hamburgers.

For me it was a Denny's, all through school. But I followed some basic common sense. If they got busy and needed the table, I left. When I did stay, I tipped VERY well. (well, $5-$10 on a 99 coffee, which was a lot for the overnight waitress) And because of that, they had no problem with me being there.

I think the issue now is that people are just jerks. If you are sucking up free wifi long enough to run through a laptop battery, it's time to either go, or pay for something else. I see no need at all for places to also offer you power.

This is an example of people pushing the limits. The business offers free wireless for paying customers. If you stay for a long time, you buy another coffee or pastry.

If you don't accept this, then you should surf at home.

What I would suggest to coffee shop owners is offenders be kicked off the wireless router or change the WEP password on a daily basis as is done in hotels.

The best thing to do is print a unique wifi password on the receipt that will be valid for an hour. When it expires you get booted off and have to buy something else to get access again.

a good solution - kudos to you.

I've never seen a coffee shop advertising 'free electricity'.

Exactly right. As much as the freeloaders bug the living shit out of me at these places because they are:
(1) Loud/Obnoxious
(2) Looking for an audience
(3) Taking up space that could be used by other customers

the fact remains that management made the decision to offer a free product without bothering to specify the auspices under which the product would be "free." And they also don't want to piss off any of the freeloaders by telling them to hit the road lest bad PR come back to bite the store in the ass later on.

They're reaping exactly what they've sown and I don't feel sorry. If you're going to roll out some promo item to bring in bodies then make sure you have some kind of policy as to its usage. Don't offer the item free and then complain when people use it.

Yes, it is absolutely the store owner's fault some people are complete assholes.

People ARE assholes. It is up to the store to put a stop to it. The problem is these stores cannot or will not.

PJ's Coffee on Maple Street is friendly to laptop users. Situated in a major college neighborhood, almost all, if not every, patron has at least one coffee whil surfing the web. Granted the connection is the slowest available for their ISP, there never seems to be a problem.

to save money and go to free wifi spots to do their business. 1-3% hijack the bandwidth to download illegal stuff (well whatever is not legal in the country they are in like pirating software) since their connection at home is either dial-up or slow dsl.

If they post a sign that says "Free wifi with purchase" there is less freeloaders there, if they offer just "Free Wireless" then they should expect people to abuse it. It is human nature to take advantage.

I have free wifi here at the hospital which is good for patients and their guests.

But in New York things are unfriendly for the most part.
I hope that things get better.

How about offering people a "ticket" containing a temporary login/password for using the Wi-Fi network, a ticket they receive after purchasing something from the restaurant?

Lots of places used to do that but the administrative burden of constantly changing the login credentials and the systems needed to generate them, is a high-cost nightmare for retail establishments.

Unfortunately the Parasites will always ruin a good thing. The purpose of free Wi-Fi is to induce potential customers to select the merchant that offers free Wi-Fi, rather than another merchant. It is unreasonable to expect a merchant to allow loafers to take up valuable space while not doing business with the merchant.

The best solution is one that a major mall used in Boston. They originally had open parking. Unfortunately people used mall parking and then went to stores surrounding the mall to do business. The solution was to charge for parking unless the driver had their parking ticket validated by each merchant they visited. Each validation allowed the driver a certain number of minutes of free parking.

In the case of Wi-Fi, upon making a purchase the customer would be given an access code and password by the merchant to use the merchant's Wi-Fi and power if they wished to do so. Access would be timed. The customer would be given a warning a minute or two before their connection was dropped. The customer would have the opportunity to buy something or pay a small fee to continue to use the connection. Unless this system is adopted merchants may eliminate their free Wi-Fi or resume charging for the service.

My local Panera Bread seems to be home for a small group of obnoxious, and often smelly individuals, who hang out there all the time for free WiFi (and free electricity). I call them "homeless with laptops." Another attraction is one can buy one cup for their coffee, and keep refilling it as much as you want from the self-serve coffee pots. This attracts cheapos who just don't leave.

The place used to be pleasant to go to, but now I avoid it. The last time I went, there was one of these guys in the restroom with clothes soaking in the sink while he was moaning in one of the stalls. I haven't been back since.

They are a pretty relaxed place, they have free Wifi, but you need to go to the cashier to get the key. They type it in for you. They usually switch it every few days. I buy a cup of coffee and a Cinnamon Raisin bagel and listen to music on my iPod touch, and they don't bother me. I stayed there for 4 hours once, and only bought a coffee and bagel and they didn't bother me. I don't mind buying stuff there. If I use the Wifi I usually get a coffee and bagel or just coffee. They are in business to make money. The internet is fast too, they use a Verizon DSL line 7000/1 up . They also have plenty of 4 faced power outlets. Close to 30 plugs available. I'm usually there early Saturday and Sunday and some weekdays. I read the paper drink some coffee and walk around the neighborhood later on.

There have been many discussions about how Starbucks sucks for charging and/or limiting WiFi in their stores.... and how it stiffles creativity and is a form of corporate greed, and blah blah. No one pointing the fingers at the abusers.

Now the little cafes are running into the same problem and suddenly, fingers are pointed at the abusers.

You are not the only one that found that funny. A lot of places I used WI-FI at typically have a payment type of system where you pay for access right there before you can connect.

the AT&T wi-fi is nice when I use it.

There are plenty of vendors of professionally installed wi-fi systems that work with the cash register systems to print out user id/passwords that are only good for a set time period, and then you're cut off from the wireless unless you buy the refill.

I've heard from my friends who install these that 15-30 minutes is the usual. It should be long enough to check email but not enough to fully recharge - I wonder if they could work in the outlet, too.....

Of course systems like those in Starbucks and UPS Stores have deals with carriers like ATT et al, and they are pay systems, too.

The cafe owner's own cheapness in installing their wi-fi setups (just a $50 router, I can do it myself) if biting them in the ass.

It is unfortunately NOT that cheap as people seem to believe.

"You sit all night, you never buy (That's a lie, that's a lie! I had a tea the other day...) You couldn't pay! (Oh yea)"

Howabout I walk in and set up my Sprint card instead of using theirs and tell them all to kiss my white butt. Seriously, if I buy a coffee and I want to sit there and surf or do some work...leave me alone.

Oh and Cafe Grumpy? Seriously? Do they open with "WTF do you want?"

In New York that would be the norm. Followed by "Youz lookin at me?"

Yea I suppose in some areas that'd be true. Course in Baltimore we've got Cafe Hon, so....

At least you should know what you're in for when you enter Cafe Grumpy.

Half of these people who go to coffee shops go to be seen, and make their lifeless existence appear more... well alive.

Let's see here... Correct me if I'm wrong... but why would I want to simply take a walk out of my apt. and go to some coffee shop and sit there like a total looser for 4 hours, not talk to anyone, and act like an antisocial in a social setting... Better yet, be typing away like a retard for that I do this at home, have all my confronts, if I'm really "working" why would I stay in a loud place full of distractions.

How connected do i have really have to be... cell phones already act like freaken miniature computers, why do I need to log a damned laptop? -This makes no sense to me.

Most of us already spend our lives in front of computers at work, and then come home and get on the computer again, at some point we need to start interacting with other people rather than sending ascii charters back and forth.

I have 2 computers at home, a MacBook pro 17 and a MacBook air... if it were for anyone to be logging around a computer, specially the air which weights nothing, I'd be me, but I rather go out and if I go to a coffee shop, I make conversation with people and interact with others.

If your life is so meaningless, insipid and bland that you need to carry a laptop and sit on some one's furniture to attract attention, that simply means that you NEED A LIFE!

And you need to learn how to spell "loser".

That's a lot of anger for something that most likely doesn't directly affect your life.

Your false assumption is that the time people spend on their laptops at a cafe is in addition to whatever time they spend on their computers when not at a cafe. As much as I try to go out I spend most of my day at home doing writing for my work. It's nice to go out to a cafe and do some of it around other people for part of the day. I am constantly paying for food and drink, and tip well.

While there are some people who are truly leeches you are lumping everyone in there as one group as losers. No offense, but it seems to take a bigger loser to rage that much over something that's not a huge deal. Cafes have ways to deal with the problem if it gets out of control. You on the other hand need to chill out.

Easy fix, get on/off switchs for the tables. If a patron buys something let them know they can have a free outlet for x amount of time. Or they could add in a timer set system like hotels do. Hamptons are like that. Free wi-fi as long as your a guest. A variation could be added to bussiness's also. Not hard

The day I go into Starbucks and find an empty seat is the day the world ends...

Mooch mooch mooch, wifi users. There's no one else in the world but you.

Couldn't you just go into the restroom and plugin there?
Here's an idea. Wireless electricity.

Considering the WiFi in Starbucks is not free (unless something changed in the past month), that's not applicable.

Just pull up to a parking space right in front of the store and Work from your car. I have done this at two Mcdonalds and a bagel shop in my town.

At the Oakland Ca. airport and I think Dallas there are "laptop bars" right in the terminals. You walk over, sit on a nice raised stool, plug in your laptop, plug in your wi-fi card and you're on. Easy peasy. And Oakland Ca. has FREE wi-fi!!

'sounds like my favorite airport bar - in Gufstav's in PDX airport - the airport has free Wi-Fi, and there's a plugstrip running underneath the length of the bar, with a plug at every stool. I'm happy to sit there and surf, real email, and buy their Guinness while I'm waiting for my flight.

have used the corporate card many a time at that bar to inebriate myself before flying. good little bar and the cheese bread is pretty good for a quick something.

q.

... that business model is about to step off the end of the runway.

Was flying home to Tampa from NY. Had a 2-1/2 hour layover in Philly. The coffee shop has free Wi-Fi and great sweet rolls. Sat in a corner plugged in watched an episode of "I love Lucy" and "Mattlock" on WGN-America. The workers could give a crap about me being plugged in. Excellent coffe and danish too bad you have be beyond security it would be an awesome place to chill....

New York can learn a lesson from an Illinois business owner. If you really don't want people using the free service you advertise you accuse them of being a hacker and stealing your business records.

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Aggravating thing is this establishment still has a packed parking lot most nights.

Is there a problem with this?

I wouldn't go into a Starbucks or a Barnes and Noble to use their Wi-Fi without buying a soda (my drink of choice) or something, but I see nothing wrong with sitting there for a few hours after having done so.

You are in their establishment to buy their stuff. They advertise free wifi access as a privilege. for buying their stuff. Also they say its free wifi access only not free wifi and electricity. Make sense to me.