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Bell Canada Holds Wireless GPS for Ransom
Mirrors Verizon and cripples phones in order to milk consumers...
Bell Canada, fresh off the scandal that involved throttling wholesale competitor traffic so upstart ISPs couldn't offer service superior to Sympatico, is apparently working hard on their latest customer-annoying endeavor. Canadian Law Professor Michael Geist points to a blog post at Wellington Financial saying that the carrier will be crippling the GPS functionality of Blackberry handsets so it only works properly if you pay Bell an additional $10 per month and use their mapping software. Third party mapping software will see a 2-10 minute delay. If true, Bell's move mirrors similar tactics by Verizon, whose wireless platform isn't quite as open as advertised.
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EveryName
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Montreal

EveryName

Premium Member

Oh great!

I'm going to cancel my service in that case. I need GPS, and the GPS service which Bell supplies for $10 a month is absolute CRAP! Google Maps is the best, and if they start throttling my GPS traffic, GOOD BYE BELL!
griff1013
join:2002-01-10
Virginia Beach, VA

griff1013

Member

Re: Oh great!

Verizon and T-Mobile charge $10 a month. I just checked T-Mobile today as I looked over their 8820. Lady said to get GPS to work, it would be $10 a month. I am not sure if you get an unlocked phone you can bypass this "feature."
broccoli
join:2007-11-29
Portland, OR
Draytek Vigor2860Vac
EnGenius EAP600
Obihai OBi100

broccoli

Member

Re: Oh great!

said by griff1013:

I just checked T-Mobile today as I looked over their 8820. Lady said to get GPS to work, it would be $10 a month.
I have T-Mobile, and GPS (actually aGPS as implemented on mobile phones) works just fine on my (currently carrier-locked) TM506 without any $10/mo charge, which is probably for subscription to TeleNav, whose GPS mapping application T-Mobile preloads on many of its phones.

If you are content with just getting your coordinates using GPS, there's absolutely no charge for that. OTOH, if you need maps to go with it, you'll need to do one of the following: (1) subscribe to a data plan to download maps on the fly (there are free GPS apps that use maps from Google, Yahoo, etc), or (2) pay TeleNav, or (3) write your own app that can read stored maps on flash media etc.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

Re: Oh great!

I've got VerizonWireless and aGPS on the Samsung i760. No aGPS for me without dialing 9-1-1.

Since its aGPS, I'm not really too miffed about VerizonWireless limiting its use, since aGPS uses their database and SMS system and coordination (my device doesn't have native GPS).

But VerizonWireless seems to have gone out of its way to disable native GPS on some of its Blackberry devices -- and that's despicable.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Good question asked at blog post that started this story

»www.wellingtonfund.com/b ··· terally/
# xxxxxxx Says:
September 24th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Before this thing gets too far, do we have any validation of this internal memo?

Dont get me wrong, Id not be surprised to see the rusted sinking hull of Bell make such a move, but is there any credible evidence that this memo exists?
No confirmation of this internal memo other than that post by an anonymous person at the web site.

hurleyp
join:2000-06-20
Ottawa, ON

hurleyp

Member

Re: Good question asked at blog post that started this story

Hey, it was on a blog - it must be true.

corster
Premium Member
join:2002-02-23
Oshawa, ON

corster to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

»www.wellingtonfund.com/b ··· terally/
# xxxxxxx Says:
September 24th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Before this thing gets too far, do we have any validation of this internal memo?

Dont get me wrong, Id not be surprised to see the rusted sinking hull of Bell make such a move, but is there any credible evidence that this memo exists?
No confirmation of this internal memo other than that post by an anonymous person at the web site.
The first mention of this I found was on Hofo, and it was posted by a very reputable member who works at a Bell dealer. It'd be one thing if it was in fact an Anonymous person or a brand new member that posted it, but I see no reason why this specific member would post it if the memo in fact didn't exist.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Good question asked at blog post that started this story

said by corster:
said by FFH5:

»www.wellingtonfund.com/b ··· terally/
No confirmation of this internal memo other than that post by an anonymous person at the web site.
The first mention of this I found was on Hofo, and it was posted by a very reputable member who works at a Bell dealer. It'd be one thing if it was in fact an Anonymous person or a brand new member that posted it, but I see no reason why this specific member would post it if the memo in fact didn't exist.
Any link to that? Otherwise it is still unsubstantiated rumor.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

2 edits

funchords

MVM

Re: Good question asked at blog post that started this story

Good grief -- I think one source is here at DSLReports!

A commenter on Geist's blog identifies BryceS See Profile as a Bell World employee...

»[ Mobile] Bell will be 'throttling' free Blackberry GPS Apps

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

1 edit

andyb to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
I assume he means this thread
»www.howardforums.com/sho ··· =1435850

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Good question asked at blog post that started this story

said by andyb:

I assume he means this thread
»www.howardforums.com/sho ··· =1435850
And why should we believe Sammy740 on that forum. There is still no text of the supposed internal memo.

And another poster here in the BBR thread denies this is true:
»Re: [ Mobile] Bell will be 'throttling' free Blackberry GPS Apps
I've been doing some digging and checked with some colleagues within Mobility and no one seems to know anything about this.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: Good question asked at blog post that started this story

said by FFH5:

And why should we believe Sammy740 on that forum. There is still no text of the supposed internal memo.
And why should you not? Just because there isn't text doesn't mean it isn't true either. People should make up their own minds based on the facts (or rumors) at hand. If it is going to happen, shame on Bell Canada. If some Bell Ca exec was dreaming up ways to screw the customer, now is the prefect time to raise a fuss. If it was never going to happen, then the only thing bad happening is that the support lines are being tied up.
And another poster here in the BBR thread denies this is true:
»Re: [ Mobile] Bell will be 'throttling' free Blackberry GPS Apps
He doesn't deny it. He just says that no one he knows has heard of it. He also said that a previous change (DPI...whatever that is) that the scripts weren't released until the change was. Since the rumor here says in the coming weeks, scripts might not be released until the GPS changes are made too.

travisc
join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

1 recommendation

travisc to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
TK, I know your gimmick is pro-corporation and to distrust everything that is said that is negative about any large company in North America, but are you serious? If we've learned one thing about Bell the last year or two it's that they are out to make money, consumers be damned.

I know you do what you do and won't be swayed, but it's really tiresome.

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

TigerLord

Is this legal?

I am not very keen on law, but this strikes me as illegal, for all my common sense tells me. Is it even allowed to sabotage a service and hold them ransom by forcing a fee to get the device to work properly in the first place?

Hopefully someone can enlighten me!
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Is this legal?

Why would it be illegal? Bell sells you the BlackBerry. As long as their contract with Research in Motion allows them to do so, I can't see why altering the BlackBerry's software would be illegal, unless Canada has some strange laws relating to cell-phones that I don't know about.

EveryName
Premium Member
join:2001-12-05
Montreal

EveryName to TigerLord

Premium Member

to TigerLord
Of course its legal. Have you ever had a cell phone that wouldn't allow you to add your own MP3s as ringtones, because the operator wanted you to buy ringtones from their store? That's not illegal.

Have you ever had a phone that had bluetooth file transfers disabled so you couldn't share content. That's not illegal.

Basically, they can do whatever you want with the phones. Its just not very good customer service.

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

TigerLord

Re: Is this legal?

I would say no all these questions, I never had that.

BACONATOR26
Premium Member
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON

BACONATOR26 to TigerLord

Premium Member

to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

I am not very keen on law, but this strikes me as illegal, for all my common sense tells me. Is it even allowed to sabotage a service and hold them ransom by forcing a fee to get the device to work properly in the first place?

Hopefully someone can enlighten me!
Bell has been crippling their phones for years and will probably continue to do so until they move to a GSM based network. As for the legality, they provide the service and it is their network.

Ken1
@96.15.144.x

Ken1

Anon

How

Since the GPS signal is in the public domain how can they stop you from getting it leaglly? They don't have tp sell device that receive the signal and I can see charging a little extra for the added receiver but diabling a signal that does not belong to them and then calling it a service and charging for it?

Deadpool0
Go Sens Go
Premium Member
join:2001-03-29
Canada

Deadpool0

Premium Member

Re: How

said by Ken1 :

Since the GPS signal is in the public domain how can they stop you from getting it leaglly? They don't have tp sell device that receive the signal and I can see charging a little extra for the added receiver but diabling a signal that does not belong to them and then calling it a service and charging for it?
From what's been posted so far, it appears as though they'll delay the speed of the GPS signal acquisition, not stop it from working.
Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada

Rastan

Member

Re: How

Sort of like how Bell delays Internet traffic by throttling it down to a crawl. I have to hand it to Bell, they've perfected the art of providing a terrible service.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

no different

than verizon disabling bluetooth soon as a new handset that has this capability connects to its network.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: no different

Well, yes, but Verizon Wireless doesn't do business in Canada, which is I guess why it's newsworthy that a Canadian carrier is doing this.

NickD
Premium Member
join:2000-11-17
Princeton Junction, NJ

1 edit

NickD

Premium Member

Enhanced 911?

Is Enhanced 911 another "third party service" that will see a 2-10 minute delay of getting GPS data?
That's the only reason why there's a GPS in the phone at all.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Enhanced 911?

What are the relevant Canadian laws regarding E-911? I don't know if you could get away with such a delay for 911 in the US, at least.

shopkins
join:2008-05-23
L4N8J7

shopkins

Member

Mapping software

My Nokia N95 comes with free maps and GPS built in.

Pay for a phone and don't buy a crippled Bell phone.
mr weather
Premium Member
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON

mr weather

Premium Member

Re: Mapping software

Yabbut Bell won't let you activate a phone on their network unless it came from them.