 
ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Wow.... Is Bell Canada's office in Bizarro land or something? That is truly laughable.
I feel sorry for my Northern Brethren.. | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Wow.... said by ptrowski  :Is Bell Canada's office in Bizarro land or something? That is truly laughable. I feel sorry for my Northern Brethren.. Tell me about it. My youngest sister and her family live outside of Toronto and the stuff they have to put up with in the high-tech world. Three-year cellular contracts with stiff caps and ISP's that throttle and produce ever tighter caps.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | sure in inspires innovation in the R&D of new routers that throttle better and thats what matters to the ISP and Cisco.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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LOL at Bell
@videotron.ca | LOL at Bell LOL
Throttling Aids Innovation
hahaha | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: LOL at Bell Throttling was Bell's innovative solution to how to deploy video streaming across their DSL lines without having to invest in increased bandwidth. Also required innovative B.S. on how to tell it to the customers.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | throttle the CEO I bet throttling (as in neck) the CEO of Bell Canada would aid innovation immensely. | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: throttle the CEO "Necessity is the mother of invention. Without any regard to oxygen supply, the CEO could breathe in such a way as to use all of the oxygen that is available. So, you see, when we restrict his oxygen supply, it forces him to use his oxygen more efficiently!" | |
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BK
join:2001-09-10
Wheaton, IL | strange so they want people to innovate ways to compress data better so it doesn't use as much bandwidth to send the same thing...
..but why don't they just innovate ways to get more bandwidth. fiber or something? | |
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| Tikker_LoS
join:2004-04-29
Regina, SK
·SaskTel Saskatchewan
| Re: strange said by BK :so they want people to innovate ways to compress data better so it doesn't use as much bandwidth to send the same thing... ..but why don't they just innovate ways to get more bandwidth. fiber or something? well, they're kind of half right
go back in time 15-20 years and see the kind of stuff that companies were doing to cram as much data as they could across the 56k lines that were prevelant then
don't get me wrong, I think it's still just an excuse right now, but there is a grain of truth to it | |
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| | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: strange said by Tikker_LoS :don't get me wrong, I think it's still just an excuse right now, but there is a grain of truth to it Yes, in the same way there is a grain of truth in stating that exterminating the Jews aided the "innovation" of a master race.  | |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: strange said by SilverSurfer :said by Tikker_LoS :don't get me wrong, I think it's still just an excuse right now, but there is a grain of truth to it Yes, in the same way there is a grain of truth in stating that exterminating the Jews aided the "innovation" of a master race. Did you just compare the holocaust to your f'ing internet connection being throttled? | |
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| | | | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: strange said by Matt :Did you just compare the holocaust to your f'ing internet connection being throttled? Did you just ask me if you know how to read? | |
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apeface
join:2000-09-16
Mckinney, TX | Re: strange Godwin violation. | |
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jerseyjoe123
join:2008-04-28
Picton, ON
| Bell's Traffic Management "Several parties have claimed that traffic management will hinder innovation. The Commission should see these claims for what they really are: the use of policy rhetoric devoid of substance in order to promote vested business interests."
Whereas, Bell is claiming that traffic management will promote innovation. The Commission should see these claims for what they really are: the use of policy rhetoric devoid of substance in order to promote vested business interests.
Yeah, right... | |
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Rastan
join:2007-04-25
Canada | Bell is Run by Liars This is yet another example of how Bell does business. Instead of being open and honest, they prefer to spin the facts and lie. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars said by adisor19 : It went along the lines of : Throttling is good for the consumer. It is good for MOST consumers. Just not those who want to steal music & movies. | |
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| | | Ikarasu
join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC | Re: Bell is Run by Liars A lot of new games are starting to use Bittorrent for content patches, not just WoW. Throttling isn't good for the consumer, it's good for the provider. | |
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| | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars Adi-
You need to have your government teach you how to read. He did NOT say anything about video games or anything else you always try and claim. The rest of you in Canada need to ask the same thing of the Government as well as many of you from the States. Go tell Bush you want your coupon to go to a private school.
TK said STEAL MUSIC and MOVIES NOT PATCH VIDEO GAMES!
LEARN HOW TO FU*KING READ! | |
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At_hotmoron
@miami.edu
thumbs down from:
TKJunkMail
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars said by hottboiinnc :Adi- You need to have your government teach you how to read. LEARN HOW TO FU*KING READ! Says the moron using "boii" as part of his forum name. That alone reeks of credibility on any intelligent thread you comment on. Almost everyone that's been participating on these boards for any length of time has seen that TK FUD CAMPAIGN (read TK Junk Mail) is a 'retired' corporate puppet/apologist/shill/troll. Most people on dslreports have seen enough of TK to know that most posts like his previous ones are trolling fishing expeditions filled with pro-corporate rhetoric. In TK FUD CAMPAIGN's world everyone that uses their connection to the fullest, even when it's for legal traffic within the isp ToS, is a "music and movie downloading thief." | |
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| | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars again you should learn how to read. My name does not spell BOII...it states: hott boi in nc but you would know that if you could read and understand how to seperate words.
But i have been on here for some time now. but you know you people who decide to hide who you are by posting annoy. are considered a bunch of trolls and shills yourself so you yourself have no room to call anyone else a troll or shill. At least he doesnt hide that he has money invested in the companies.
Maybe Miami should teach you how to read. | |
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| | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars I know how to read and i did read it. Legal or not. He did not state weather the data was legal or not. He said MUSIC AND MOVIES! show me a company that provides their music and movies via p2p or BT?
You can't. Their all provided over HTTP and using their own programs. Not your every day run of the mill Limewire program. | |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada | Re: Bell is Run by Liars Tell me you are kidding. You have to be a joke, I've never read so much nonsense in here.
Troll indeed. Take your meds, "boii"
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Cheers! | |
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| | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH | Re: Bell is Run by Liars you need to learn to read. My name is not BOII it actually reads out : hott boi in nc .
but no i'm not kidding and i'm not a troll. I simply am stating a fact of what was said, the facts you people on here fail to read. | |
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drjp81
join:2006-01-09
canada
·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars Listen boii,
Since when is there a word such as BOI or BOII in the english language, in any case? Before you tell people to learn to read, perhaps *you* should learn to write.
The impetus in the written language, is for the person that writes to make himself clearly understood.
As for me, done feeding the troll. Yes you are.
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Cheers! | |
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beatsnpieces
join:2007-12-17
| said by adisor19 :said by TKJunkMail : all those other Video stores like Zudeo that depend on P2P to deliver their products. That's not innovation, it's cost cutting. Zudeo could rent or buy a high-bandwidth, high-capacity HTTP server to host their files that would also provide faster, more consistent speeds. Instead they use p2p and force the ISPs of their customers to shoulder the load and cost of all that bandwidth. As a regular p2p user I don't much like throttling but I fully understand the reasons for doing it and don't have the audacity to bitch about it. As much as people around here may protest the simple fact is that the vast majority of p2p is piracy, and those legit p2p sources are just cutting corners.
Bell has every right to throttle Sympatico customers, but someone really needs to be shot over their arrogance in assuming they can get away with throttling wholesalers. If my landlord tried to tell me I could only have certain friends at my apartment and then only at specific times of the day, I would tell him to go f**k himself, which is basically what Bell is doing here. As long as these ISPs are paying their rent it should be illegal for Bell to interfere in any way. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| But we also use it to steal a lot of other stuff. TV shows, software, anime, books. pictures, games.. Hmm.. pretty much everything that's digital. Yep, that's the only use for bittorrent, to steal from the rich and give to the people.
Most consumers haven't LEARNED about torrents, that's the problem. Once someone comes up with a very simple easy to use method to download all that stuff, using P2P, say, a set top box that can grab all your tv shows for free, THEN it will really take off.
That's what's called 'progress'. It's a scary word for right wing nut cases, but society marches on, and leaves the old farts to yell at kids to 'keep of my damn lawn'!
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: Bell is Run by Liars You're missing the obvious problem with your dream world- which is that once content providers stop getting money for their content, then the content stops getting produced. | |
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IronMike
@teksavvy.com
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars said by EPS :You're missing the obvious problem with your dream world- which is that once content providers stop getting money for their content, then the content stops getting produced. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, in many cases. | |
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braynes
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Waterville, ME | How do you come to know so much about stealing music and movies?
Bruce | |
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Froggy
@teksavvy.com
thumbs down from:
TKJunkMail
| You'd be singing a different tune if you had to live in Canada. Probably be begging for change to buy overpriced beer and crying day and night about how bad the internet service is in Canada. | |
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DJ MASACRE
@accelio.com
thumbs down from:
TKJunkMail
| said by TKJunkMail :said by adisor19 : It went along the lines of : Throttling is good for the consumer. It is good for MOST consumers. Just not those who want to steal music & movies. It is good for nobody, you have the wrong message in your head about the whole thing. | |
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zachary1
you talkin' to me?
join:2004-03-07
right here | Oh please. What about Netflix downloads? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | TK this is wholesale throttling of all data in transit including third parties ISP's. In a way, even efforts to throttle here in the US pale by comparison. This isn't good for any user; it's purely an anti-competitive move. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars said by KrK :TK this is wholesale throttling of all data in transit including third parties ISP's. In a way, even efforts to throttle here in the US pale by comparison. This isn't good for any user; it's purely an anti-competitive move. But wholesale DSL in Canada is totally different from the USA. In the USA, all wholesale DSL is implimented by 3rd party CLEC DSLAMs. Canada's system of "Ma Bell will deliver to you a gigabit fiber connector with all of your customer's traffic, regardless of where the customers are, to where ever in Canada your datacenter is", which means the telco must backhaul traffic from BC to Quebec for no additional cost if the competitor ISP demands so. | |
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| | | | | brad
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
| Re: Bell is Run by Liars said by patcat88 :But wholesale DSL in Canada is totally different from the USA. In the USA, all wholesale DSL is implimented by 3rd party CLEC DSLAMs. Canada's system of "Ma Bell will deliver to you a gigabit fiber connector with all of your customer's traffic, regardless of where the customers are, to where ever in Canada your datacenter is", which means the telco must backhaul traffic from BC to Quebec for no additional cost if the competitor ISP demands so. The company or ISP paying for that connection is NOT no additional cost. | |
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jubangy
Premium
join:2005-03-26
Erie, PA
·DSL EXTREME
| That is bullshit! While there are people who do that, there are alot of legit services now a days that use alot of bandwidth to.
I suppose watching streaming movies from netflix is stealing? Funny didnt seem that way when I PAID my bill! What about the satellite companies that are startingto offer movie downloads? I suppose th emonthly bill is what restitution?
Get a clue. | |
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kcblack
Premium
join:2000-09-11
Chicago, IL | Pot, kettle...lol Pot, meet Kettle, Kettle meet Pot
Speaking of Pot, that must be what they are smoking to come up with this.
"We had to destroy the village, to save the village"...
Kevin | |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications
| Re: Pot, kettle...lol said by kcblack :Pot, meet Kettle, Kettle meet Pot Speaking of Pot, that must be what they are smoking to come up with this. "We had to destroy the village, to save the village"... Kevin That sounds like some religious right wing talk !! Are you implying Bell inspired themselves from that ? 
Adi | |
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Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Helping us innovate ways to beat them lol Bell said
"Indeed, the opposite of these claims is clearly the case; necessity is the mother of invention."
I see your point. ISPs started getting cheap and cutting off torrents, so we invented torrent clients with encryption and a few other things. Maybe soon we'll use p2p clients that resemble short term ssl connections during actual transfers. Maybe someday we'll invent a way to automatically revoke the internet privileges of such fools via the push of a red button, which will promote innovation greatly, once we have invented it because of such idiots and douche bags as the CEOs of Bell Canada and Rogers(I am originally from Canada and have dealt with both companies). | |
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mobbo
join:2005-04-13
Denton, TX | WTF... "the use of policy rhetoric devoid of substance in order to promote vested business interests."
OH NO I'VE GONE CROSS-EYED!!! | |
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jcan
 from:
TKJunkMail
| Innovation stifled? Can anyone give me some concrete examples of how innovation is being stifled by the throttling of P2P traffic? I would like to understand the reason for all the passionate arguments surrounding this.
Personally, I am throttled (have used BitTorrent and Limewire to test), but don't seem to be impacted at all. My Internet TV, VPN and downloading all work fine, even in the evening.
Thanks for input! | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | Re: Innovation stifled? Clearly you don't *use* P2P, so stay out of it. | |
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| Selenia
join:2006-09-22
Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | p2p, including Bit Torrent has been a very big aid to innovation in recent years. Think of those multi-gig Linux isos and open source programs that are distributed for free, with plenty of devoted seeders. Some of this content is mostly distributed over BT, conserving massive resources on their servers, as they probably lack the funding that Micro$haft and Apple can spend on their servers. The open source programs and OS distributions provide competition in areas where otherwise a monopoly or a duopoly would exist. This promotes innovation. In Canada, competition can be short and Bell is about as much innovation as you'll be stuck with, if you don't have enough competition.
PS-Even if you don't like Linux(or other open source OSes), you have to agree that it has forced some innovation In more commercial OSes. The same is just as true for certain types of programs. | |
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Tenar
join:2008-01-02
Midland, ON
| It's been stated before but the CBC (public broadcaster) in Canada tried offering a program called "Canada's next great prime minister" as a download via bit torrent.
It was an experiment to see if BitTorrent was a viable way to offer public TV to the Public. However, so many people were throttled and cbc received complaints of 11 hour downloads. They might not offer any more shows via BitTorrent.
There is your throttled innovation! | |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Innovation I suppose throttling really does aid innovation, but only in the area of bypassing said throttling. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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MarkAW
Barry White or lil bratt
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Canada
·Bell Sympatico
·Cogeco Cable
1 edit | Vested business interests then why the OTPP buy out. quote:
Several parties have claimed that traffic management will hinder innovation. The Commission should see these claims for what they really are: the use of policy rhetoric devoid of substance in order to promote vested business interests.
So i guess the $35 Billion Bell buy out by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan that is expected to be completed by mid-December has nothing to do with this quoted statement.
»www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···chnology
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Advertising is legalized lying. - H.G. Wells
Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work. - Aristotle | |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com
| Re: Vested business interests then why the OTPP buy out. There won't be any takers for bell's debt (the banks will float the debt and end of statement) so the deal will fall apart. That's why the terms were changed from the teachers being on the hook now for a billion two instead of a billion. The teachers are learning but learning an expensive lesson about the real world. BCE's share price will continue to fall between now and December. | |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| The Bottom Line: The top 5% users of traffic - which is the TARGET of throttling - will have found a workaround within weeks, if not days after a new system was installed. The latest rounds of multi-million dollar investments in throttling equipment could easily be worked around by setting your torrent client to the skype port, or the port that VOIP providers use such as Vonage.
(The logic here of course is that if they interfere with VOIP traffic, they will get sued by the VOIP companies for deliberately interfering with their service, and since most ISP's sell phone service themselves, that can be seen as deliberately interfering with other businesses in order to sell your own services.)
The next step up is packet-based throttling, where even more expensive equipment actually recognizes whether a packet is torrent or VOIP, and throttle it according to those parameters.
And the top 5% torrent users already have a solution, as several torrent clients already support encrypted packets with encrypted headers. And blocking encryption is a whole different ballgame.
Other solutions are to mimic packets as simple web (port 80) packets.....
The Bottom Line is that no matter how hard you try and block or throttle traffic, a workaround will be found before the bill of all that equipment is actually paid by accounts payable of said ISP.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -
Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: The Bottom Line: said by maartena :The Bottom Line is that no matter how hard you try and block or throttle traffic, a workaround will be found before the bill of all that equipment is actually paid by accounts payable of said ISP. The bottom line is use all you want and pay for what you use like electricity. It is going to happen no work around that. | |
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Froggy
@teksavvy.com | Throttling Aids Innovation If everybody thought like bell we'd still be living in the caveman era. | |
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Barcelona
| Re: Throttling Aids Innovation I don't have much sympathy for people who are crying about the throttling. After all, 95 percent of the bandwidth is used by, what, 5 percent of the users.
Throttling is a lot fairer way to apportion the bandwidth.
It would be nice if Bell would invest the money to increase total bandwidth, but until they do, we should live with the throttling.
Heck, I download 2 or 3 tv programs or movies each week and have no problem with the throttling. I don't have to have the thing downloaded in the next hour, it's no problem if it takes overnight. Why should these other guys have a problem? | |
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| | MIghtyCicero
join:2008-04-19
| Re: Throttling Aids Innovation That 5/95% proportion is straight from Bell PR machine, changed multiple times depending on the time, person and who they are talking to.. and you go stating this as fact.. are you working for bell?
Video download (streaming) like YouTube is taking more bandwidth than P2P. Streaming video really changed the bandwidth dynamic of the web in the past 2 years.
Also, it's not true that P2P is "hogging" the bandwidth. If 5% of the people each used their paltry 5mb at maximum and that consisted 95% of bell capacity or close to it then that speaks VOLUME how bad and old Bell network really is. The math doesn't add up. It's impossible that 5% can affect a network that big. | |
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Bell Canada: Throttling Aids Innovation
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