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Bell Outlines Plan To Cap Wholesalers
Just in case regulators don't allow them to throttle...
by Karl Bode 08:29AM Thursday Jul 31 2008 Tipped by fatness See Profile
Bell Canada is worried that regulators might force them to stop throttling wholesaler competitors. As a backup plan, they're cooking up a new policy that would instead bill wholesalers at both ends -- charging for up front bandwidth as usual, and then charging them usage-based billing for user consumption. Fresh off of a conference with Bell, one employee for Canadian ISP Acanac states that 512Kbps wholesale service will now have a 2GB per month cap imposed on wholesalers, while 5Mbps service will have a 60GB cap.
quote:
They did not disclose what the overcharges will be, but don't expect it to be cheap...The only good news is that it will not affect current clients. So as long as you don't change ISP's you can keep your current unlimited connection. Bell proposes to start shadow billing in October and usage based billing in Jan of 2009.
Like Bell's throttling push, bell claims the move is in order to prevent congestion due to P2P, but Bell has been unable to prove network congestion claims. Competitors believe the move is geared toward preventing them from offering a superior product than Bell's throttled and capped Sympatico DSL service.

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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
Reviews:
·Vonage
·Comcast Digital ..

Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

"Now we will not only cap our direct customers, we will cap what our competition may offer."

Canada must be the testing ground for what is going to happen in the USA and other places. The walls are closing in and caps may begin to bleed over into business connectivity such as T1 / T3/ OCX lines.
--
Addicted to Broadband Reports.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

1 recommendation

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

It doesn't make any sense. The prices of all services always included the price of bandwidth. Because bandwidth is cheap. 500gigs only costs 50 cents or less.
It just seems ISPs are going to follow the oil model. When you control supply, make it sparse to justify charging a ridiculous price for it. So they purposely don't upgrade anything as they get new customers or when customers start to use what they have been paying for. This allows them to claim networks cannot support it and therefore they need to charge a 1000% increase for bandwidth to conserve their limited resources. But I guess this is what happens when you are under pressure to have a 10% increase in stock price every year no matter if you really grow or not. Profits are meaningless to these companies. It's only about increased profits. And that means raising prices on existing customers to pretend you are experiencing growth.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

BS! If you find me 500Gb for 50 cents or less delivered I will buy it right this very minute.

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

www.dreamhost.com
5TB of transfers, $5.95/month. That's $.60 cents per 500 GB. Close enough.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

First comparing cost of bandwidth in a datacenter and delivered via the last mile is apples and oranges. Second, have you pushed 5 TB with Dreamhost, because I seriously doubt you ever get 5 TB for $6/mth in a shared hosting plan.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

Dreamhost will cut you off at 400 GB's (usually less) or so since they aren't exactly the most honest people. I pay around 5 cents a gb for my datacenter for the first 2 TB's of data then 10 cents overage for everyother gb. It's really really cheap.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

There's still a huge difference between the cost of bandwidth in a datacenter or a peering point and the last mile broadband connections heading into people's homes.

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
That's shared bandwidth in a data center. Thanks for playing. Please try again.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
said by battleop:

BS! If you find me 500Gb for 50 cents or less delivered I will buy it right this very minute.
Are you saying this was a lie?
»Time Warner Cable Using Fine Print To Foist Caps On Customers

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

That may be the raw cost of bandwidth but it certainly not the cost of delivering that bandwidth.

Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
It is BS. Cheapest transit you'll find is $4/mbit from Cogent. That comes out to (at 100% utilization) roughly 321GB, or (divide by eight) ~40.2GB per 50 cents. Of course, Bell's network is internal and self-owned, so their costs would be significantly lower than this.
munky99999
Munky

join:2004-04-10
canada
said by fatmanskinny:

"Now we will not only cap our direct customers, we will cap what our competition may offer."

Canada must be the testing ground for what is going to happen in the USA and other places. The walls are closing in and caps may begin to bleed over into business connectivity such as T1 / T3/ OCX lines.
Actually throttling already is happening in the USA. The FCC just straightened that shit out though as far as I can tell. They are going to punish comcast for their crap. The other telcos are also going to be cleaning up real quick.

MrMoody
Free range slave
Premium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

said by munky99999:

Actually throttling already is happening in the USA. The FCC just straightened that shit out though as far as I can tell. They are going to punish comcast for their crap. The other telcos are also going to be cleaning up real quick.
So now they go to caps, with overage fees so ridiculous it would be cheaper to have multiple accounts. I'd much rather have throttling. In fact I have no problem at all with QoS-type limiting during peak demand if it's really needed.
--
Electile Dysfunction: the inability to become aroused over the choice for President put forth by either party.
munky99999
Munky

join:2004-04-10
canada

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

said by MrMoody:

said by munky99999:

Actually throttling already is happening in the USA. The FCC just straightened that shit out though as far as I can tell. They are going to punish comcast for their crap. The other telcos are also going to be cleaning up real quick.
So now they go to caps, with overage fees so ridiculous it would be cheaper to have multiple accounts. I'd much rather have throttling. In fact I have no problem at all with QoS-type limiting during peak demand if it's really needed.
I'm fine with throttling also if it was indiscriminate. So even those people downloading youtube is shut down to 30kb/s

Wholesellers arent throttled at all because they are sold bandwidth.

When bell no longer has anyone using their service because of their shitty product... they'd be screwed.

drjp81

join:2006-01-09
canada

1 edit

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

said by munky99999:

I'm fine with throttling also if it was indiscriminate. So even those people downloading youtube is shut down to 30kb/s

Wholesellers arent throttled at all because they are sold bandwidth...
Youtube isn't a download service but rather a real time streaming video service.

Bells wholesalers are throttled. Just read it in the teksaavy forum as well as Acanacs.

Get a clue
--
Cheers!--
I reserve the right to use any private message
in these boards if you behave like a horse a$$ in it.
munky99999
Munky

join:2004-04-10
canada

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

said by drjp81:

said by munky99999:

I'm fine with throttling also if it was indiscriminate. So even those people downloading youtube is shut down to 30kb/s

Wholesellers arent throttled at all because they are sold bandwidth...
Youtube isn't a download service but rather a real time streaming video service.

Bells wholesalers are throttled. Just read it in the teksaavy forum as well as Acanacs.

Get a clue
You see when you go ONLINE everything you do is DOWNLOADED. That is to say... you have to use bandwidth to download the videos and webpages.

So you are apparently quite ignorant of how the basics of the internet work.

Furthermore I was saying that the wholesellers shouldnt be throttled because bell is selling them bandwidth.

I'm sorry you're so ignorant that you dont understand the basics of how internet works and apparently dont even understand basic english. I notice you are in quebec so I guess that must be why.

So really it is you who needs to get a clue.

drjp81

join:2006-01-09
canada

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

Don't try your little semantic manipulations on me, mister. It won't work. We as humans, regardless of the language, when communicating, whether by peaking or writing, have to use a certain convention the usage of words, otherwise, up will end-up being down, east will be west. You want to get technical with me? How's this:

When "the rest of the world" says "download" it means to not only have the more bits and bytes in the downstream than upstream (yes, while "downloading", we are also always "uploading"), it is usually to determine if there will be an archival save of the said data on some form of physical media for retrieval in the future (hard drives, cd, dvd etc).

Furthermore "when you go online" is also misused. Most people that watch youtube are "always online" as their network connection is in one way or another, seldom ever severed. But you seem to equate going online to firing up your web browser.

Again, this is not clear and further demonstrates your poor usage of the english language, that according to you, I should have a lesser handle of, because of where I write from. What's your excuse? (rhetorical, please don't answer)

Your comment in that instance is akin to a redneck's level and borders on racism (based on geography) of all things. And this is the 21st century (if you hadn't noticed), there is no more room for that kind of intolerance.

So the usage of the word download, was erroneous without further clarification on your part and you know it, you're just being a PITA.

You have also completely sidestepped the throttling issue, I have noticed.

--
Cheers!--
I reserve the right to use any private message
in these boards if you behave like a horse a$$ in it.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO
We'll part of the problem is that the competitors are using the same network connection as bell at the DSLAM. If the competitors put in alternative backhaul they could bypass bell alltogether.

That's how it's done in the states most of the time AFAIK.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Corporate greed is reaching new levels....

from what i understand Bell is limiting the bandwidth at the DSLAM before it even hits the backhaul. So they have ful control before it even hits the internet to the ISP. So having an alternative backhaul wouldn't work since they put the cap at the DSLAM.

They should just but DSLAMS in the COs and go from there. they shouldnt have to worry about being capped then since they would be considered a CLEC and not a Wholesale/Reseller ISP.
backness

join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2

1 recommendation

I'll cancel

That will be it for DSL Service, in fact home internet in general.

I'm not going to live by a cap on a silly antiquated dsl service.

Bell is acting like they installed a state of the art fiber network and now they have to recoup the costs, when in fact we are right where we started in 1998.

Bell you can blow me

Bonkers

@sdsl.bell.ca

Re: I'll cancel

said by backness:

Bell is acting like they installed a state of the art fiber network and now they have to recoup the costs, when in fact we are right where we started in 1998.
I think more accurately, they're acting like they're about to take on tens of billions of dollars in debt, and need their customers to pay it off for them.

I bet none of these extra charges will be used to improve infrastructure.
davidl

join:2008-07-11
Vaudreuil-Dorion, QC
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit

1 recommendation

Re: I'll cancel

said by Bonkers :

said by backness:

Bell is acting like they installed a state of the art fiber network and now they have to recoup the costs, when in fact we are right where we started in 1998.
I think more accurately, they're acting like they're about to take on tens of billions of dollars in debt, and need their customers to pay it off for them.

I bet none of these extra charges will be used to improve infrastructure.
More like the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is looking for a big payoff after their recent acquisition of BCE...don't much like the idea of being squeezed for someone else's cushy pension

Millenniumle

join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY

Re: I'll cancel

Don't get me started! The school taxes I pay so my mother-in-law can retire on a pension higher than her last year's salary. All her unused sick time and personal time had to be paid - nearly doubling her last year's pay. Her pension was an average of her last five years of work. Guess what? She gets more in pension than she ever did in salary. Whatismore, she continues to get her fantastic health insurance that probably costs the state more than I make in a year. As if not enough, she gets top tier Social Security which is also more than I make in a year.

Underpaid teachers, my ass! Meanwhile, my family of five sits uninsured hopin' nobody gets sick or hurt.
davidl

join:2008-07-11
Vaudreuil-Dorion, QC

Re: I'll cancel

I hear you. The teachers are the ones that are always pushing this socialist worldview...then they go buy the telecoms with their taxpayer funded pension fund and screw us again...

Ironmike

@teksavvy.com

Re: I'll cancel

Taxpayer funded?

Get a clue.

AzraelLives

@niagara.net

Re: I'll cancel

Erm... It is to a degree, but as with anything else, a bit of spin is involved.

For teachers in Ontario, the pension fund is paid into via an amount deducted off their wages. If you look at it that way without looking any further, then no, it's not taxpayer funded.

That amount is negotiated as a part of the wage every time contracts come up for renewal. So, it is taxpayer funded, just not directly, at least not on paper. The pension contribution technically changes hands from the government (school board) to teachers, and then the teachers to the pension fund, so if you look at it that way, it's not taxpayer funded. However, that deducted amount is pre-negotiated at contract time, and it's automatically deducted from their salary to pay into the pension fund. So it actually is taxpayer funded, but how directly depends on how you look at it.
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Cypress, TX

1 edit

Brave New World

Unreasonable caps and throttling coming soon to America!

We are already seeing ISP's dip there toes into this and it looks like it's just the beginning of what is to come. Given all of the different ways we use the Internet, this is going to be a really tough transition for all of us.

I feel really bad for you guys who already have to deal with such things - especially when it's as unreasonable and restrictive as this looks to be!

prack

join:2003-08-31
Columbus, OH

Unreasonable Caps...

It's high time that communities start looking at wiring themselves (homeowner associations for example) and start buying wholesale. This may not work in Canada but it certainly would work here in the states.

I would love to see a progressive city government back bonds where such homeowner associations can do such a thing and pay back the cost over 10 to 15 years. Robert Cringley had an article where he spelled this out and I think it's becoming an attractive alternative to dealing with the current ISP's.

This is two years old but so very relevant. »www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2006···351.html

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

Re: Unreasonable Caps...

said by prack:

It's high time that communities start looking at wiring themselves (homeowner associations for example) and start buying wholesale. This may not work in Canada but it certainly would work here in the states.

I would love to see a progressive city government back bonds where such homeowner associations can do such a thing and pay back the cost over 10 to 15 years. Robert Cringley had an article where he spelled this out and I think it's becoming an attractive alternative to dealing with the current ISP's.

This is two years old but so very relevant. »www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2006···351.html
Of course, if they're cap'ing your wholesale connection, it kind of blows that out of the water, too.

Gotcha coming and going: nowhere to run...
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Unreasonable Caps...

many HOAs do this. Or they higher a company to provide it for them. Many are FTTH. Just some do not like that the HOAs have a 15year+ agreement with the provider and whine and cry they have to pay for it even if they don't want it.

So really you'd be paying out the ass for a service being built in your area just a few that wanted it in your HOA.

happylurk

@dsl.look.ca

60 Gigs per month???

I download more than that in patches for 3 OpenSuSE linux machines every month...

Much as I despise Rogers it may make more sense to switch to Rogers if this comes to pass...
davidbrown

join:2005-05-31
Toronto, ON

Re: 60 Gigs per month???

said by happylurk :

I download more than that in patches for 3 OpenSuSE linux machines every month...

Much as I despise Rogers it may make more sense to switch to Rogers if this comes to pass...
Bad idea rogers is already doing this on top of throttling.
koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON

1 edit

CRTC

They would need to push this past the CRTC for approval I think... I doubt they will be able to... at the cost levels Bell will try to impose. But god knows...
k6richar

join:2008-06-17
Kitchener, ON

Congestion?

Like Bell's throttling push, bell claims the move is in order to prevent congestion due to P2P, but Bell has been unable to prove network congestion claims.

The lines are to congested for me to use over 60 GB in a month but have enough room for Bell's video store and their upcoming IPTV plans.

BS
Stojko
Premium
join:2007-10-20
St John's NL

Thanks Bell!

...and my sheer hate of Bell just got 2x stronger.
canuck999999

join:2004-04-19

Do the right thing CRTC

No seriously, this is bad for competition and bad for the consumer if it turns out to be true and since our current Conservative overlords have previously stated that they don't want to tell companies how to run their business you pretty much are our only hope to block this.

root9

join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON

Bell illegally broke GAS contracts

Bell illegally broke Independent ISPs contracts in turn causing massive losses. It's that simple!

To try to get Indi ISPs in a different way is again illegally breaking contracts.

Bell must be held responsible for damages, correcting said situations, restoring services to original state and providing Indi ISPs with updated services comparable to highest speeds offered and types of service with free access. All this with NO throttling, NO caps and NO spying.

CRTC is only the first step if they choose to side with Bell, contract laws in court would be next. This is when Bell will pay dearly for it's infractions. Love or lump it this is Canadian law.
--
Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers.
davidbrown

join:2005-05-31
Toronto, ON

Re: Bell illegally broke GAS contracts

They irony is that its going to happen just like the throttling and its going to take the crtc a dogs age to do anything about it if at all.

At which point bell well do something else and each time they force the other guys to loose more money.

Eventually forcing them out of business and wining by default.

The government isn't going to do anything since its pushing this insane copyright law thats all about kissing business butt.

Unless something changes quickly this spells the end of any hope.

root9

join:2005-04-08
Kitchener, ON

Re: Bell illegally broke GAS contracts

I find what you say alarmingly correct.

With other battles such as wages, jobs, food, gas/fuel, fights over land, false terror tactics and almost everything it's hard to concentrate on just the Internet. We are at a crossroads where tyrants have taken over to such an extent it's hard to root them out.

What's worse is that tyrants have forced, cheated and manipulated people into their own slavery. Changed laws to their own favor and created policy for same. This is outright evil and must be stopped. Yet tyrants are afraid, very afraid, of the general population.

The trick is NOT to fear them and stand up to tyrants wherever they are found. Expose them and expose them till tyrants have nowhere to hide. All people should be looking, reporting and posting in every neighborhood, town, city and part of the world.
--
Please engage eyeballs and retain functional brain before operating fingers.

Anon

@dsl.bell.ca

caps, throttles

I think all ISPs should be telling the users upfront about caps and throttles. When you sign up for a service if it says 500k, unlimited, that's what you expect. We all know there's ups and downs to the speeds, but getting 20k when you sign up for 500k is quite a difference. 20k is less than 1/2 of dialup, that's pretty pathetic.

If they're capping lines in anyway, it should be the overall speed of the connection, not what your doing with your bandwidth. If you think of streaming an entire movie, your still continuously using your bandwidth, but yet it allows you to get the data at your max line speed (if the network chain permits). Why doesn't bell get mad at those who watch 1min of a 10min stream they just buffered? Or how about the fact that a stream isn't actually saved, and the user may visit it several times in a month? Isn't that a rather wasteful use of bandwidth? That compared to those using BT to download something they will burn and never have to re-download? Maybe the stockpile of movies users are accumulating will serve a purpose during these throttling wars... In the end, maybe we'll forget that theatres, video stores and ISP's even exist and start our own entertainment exchange system.