Beware Of Bogus National Broadband PlansOp/Ed: ISPs that spent millions stifling deployment, now want more subsidies... 01:26PM Saturday Jan 10 2009 by Karl Bodetags: business · Op/Ed · telco · municipal · Qwest.netWith the Obama campaign planning an economic stimulus package that includes spending at least some of our apparently unlimited trillions on infrastructure (including broadband), lobbyists from all carriers are assaulting Washington with their hands out. Qwest is the latest, writing a love letter to the Obama transition team asking for money to be doled out to the states, who would in turn request bids from companies proposing to achieve 95% statewide availability of broadband that's 7Mbps or faster. Laments Qwest: "...while many urban areas have multiple broadband service providers, competitive prices, and speeds in excess of 7 Mbps, many rural areas lack even the most basic broadband offerings." Qwest's letter probably didn't mention how they were part of the problem. This is the same company that spent millions to prevent municipal fiber efforts from succeeding in Seattle and specifically Utah, where the company said it was on "the other side of municipally backed telecom projects" mostly because "of the long-term harm to consumers" caused by wholesale municipal fiber networks offering 50Mbps symmetrical connections. A Qwest executive once asked the question: "Why provide a Rolls-Royce when a Chevrolet will do?" Why provide a Rolls-Royce when a Chevrolet will do? -Qwest's Utah President, Jerry Fenn |
Years later, once many of those "Rolls Royce" efforts were struggling under Qwest legal assault, the telco finally began offering their slightly faster ADSL2+ service, in limited markets, at speeds of 12Mbps/896kbps or 20Mbps/896kbps. ADSL2+'s inherent 896kbps upstream limitation is considered "next generation" by Qwest, and is as good as it gets for millions of Qwest customers. Most Qwest customers don't see those speeds. Many can't get DSL at all because Qwest, like most carriers, won't deploy into the nation's less profitable corners. That's their right as publicly traded companies -- but the problem has been they don't want anybody else to, either. Obama�s team is supposedly considering a $20-billion to $30-billion plan to expand broadband, centered largely around providing tax breaks to companies willing to extend broadband where it currently isn't available. While that might work (assuming there's adequate followup and follow through), it would make sense to remember that many of these companies already spent millions trying to keep under-served areas from wiring themselves. Most of them also spent millions fighting efforts to accurately map broadband in this country. Should they be rewarded? You should also ask yourself who, in Qwest's dream scenario, will map broadband coverage, pick the carriers, and mind the taxpayer money doled out to the States. It will likely be Connected Nation, a group supported by most major incumbents. Connected Nation has come under fire for being little more than a dog and pony show, designed by AT&T and others to gobble up State funds while protecting incumbent ISP interests. All the while, making legislators feel good by falsely reporting that their state's broadband infrastructure is just rosy. You'll soon see a flurry of different ideas about how to improve the nation's broadband fortunes, most of them sophisticated ruses, designed by incumbent think tanks and lobbyists. Politicians, technology pundits and individuals need to study these proposals carefully, as carriers have been working very had to design national broadband plans that look good on paper, but are little more than taxpayer money pits. Many of these proposals have broad, bi-partisan support, but are designed by incumbent lobbyists to derail real, substantive telecom reform. If the same skepticism applied by "free market" fans to taxpayer-funded municipal broadband is squarely levied upon these taxpayer-funded incumbent slush funds -- carrier lobbyists shouldn't be able to pull the wool over our collective Ethernet ports. We might make it through 2009 with a real, consumer-friendly national broadband plan, but it's going to be a steep uphill climb. Only with increased consumer awareness and a more skeptical press will we collectively get our Rolls Royce. If things remain the same? Enjoy your Chevy. Related:- Seattle Eyes $500 Million Fiber Network
- Qwest Brings a Knife To a Utah Gun Fight
- Qwest Wants To Avoid 'Speed Game'
- Verizon Threatens Massachusetts
- Is Verizon Considering Metered Billing?
- Qwest Will Keep Long Haul Network
- Qwest Keeps Pretending Speed Doesn't Matter
- FCC Greenlights Centurytel/Embarq With Wimpy Conditions
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 |  |   Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by LiamJunket :There is just a new corrupt sheriff running the town and the major players who bought his campaign victory will expect to be paid back in favors - as it has been for over 200 years. Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. Holy cow I think for once I agree with TK Junk Mail. These are the same companies who refused to expand their network out to the rural areas and blocked the latest in Internet connectivity technology to befit themselves where if they in turn spent the money on improving their infrastructure I think they'd be in a better position.
I see this as just another cash grab hell maybe I become an ISP and than go to Washington and plead my case if its anyway the 856Billion bailout for Wall Street went than it should be quite easy. | |
|  |  |   birdfeedr Premium,MVM join:2001-08-11 Warwick, RI
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by Chiyo :Holy cow I think for once I agree with TK Junk Mail. The only reason he's saying that is because *his* sheriff isn't running the town.
You're not necessarily agreeing with him. | |
|  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Don't expect anything to really change Regardless of who's sheriff is running the town, at best, any of these companies are more interested in pumping stock than anything else. Every company wants a handout these days. I can at least hope that infrastructure investment will create US based jobs.
I think all of these bailouts will do nothing but cause the government to print money and burn us all with trillion dollar debt loads and no incentives for investment or recovery.
I.E. What good does giving a mega corp money if a) Companies have no reason to 'invest' in the US - labor, laws and governments are a little more business friendly in places like India, China, Brazil. b) This country is 'broke' - you can give money to companies, however, nobody has money or desire to purchase ANY products. Eg. Giving money to car companies won't help much as people are still not buying.
Its something that won't be fixed overnight. Infrastructure investment at least has _some_ benefit for most of us. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |  |  |  hacker90
join:2005-09-01 Winnebago, IL
·Mediacom
| Re: Don't expect anything to really change Throw my hat into the ring on this...
I like to see what kind of jobs could be made from this Infrastructure plan. If I'm getting the jist of it, rebuilding our old highway system, fixing/rebuilding of bridges, expansion in some areas, railway improvements. One thing I don't get, is all of that is temporary jobs for a few years or a decade. I don't see them tackling the core problem lack of industry to create more jobs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to cut our corporate tax rate to 20%. At the same time, getting the states to cut their corporate tax rates too? Then cutting the Federal corporate tax rate would actually work. If we cut only the Federal rate, it wouldn't have any effect due to the states high tax rates too.
And shouldn't we be putting a government mandate on broadband deployment in the US? Especially in urban centers that house lots of businesses that are dependent on a good internet connection at a reasonable price. If a business is able to send it's critical data at a fast speed and beat it's competitor at that same task, wouldn't that offer an advantage?
I would advocate the US government create or acquire Federal Work projects. Turn such projects into hard assets that continue to generate income year after year like the Hoover Dam. I believe that Dam holds the record for being the only Federal Works project that has paid itself off and makes money. Something we should be looking into for some extra cash. Create jobs and income for the government, just needs to be done right.
I guess that's it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   halfband Premium join:2002-06-01 Huntsville, AL 2 edits | Re: Don't expect anything to really change They would change their tune if the infrastructure built by the government was going to compete with the incumbents and not subsidize them. -- Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
|  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by LiamJunket :....So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. millions? I think you significantly overestimate the "flow thru". I believe most, if not all, of any money thrown at the ILECs will be as effective as the $350 billion thrown at the banking industry.
In other words, a complete waste. | |
|  |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
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| said by LiamJunket :There is just a new corrupt sheriff running the town and the major players who bought his campaign victory will expect to be paid back in favors - as it has been for over 200 years. Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. It must suck to live in such a pessimistic world. | |
|  |  |   LiamJunket Premium join:2002-03-03 Ocean City, NJ
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1 edit | Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by Matt :said by LiamJunket :There is just a new corrupt sheriff running the town and the major players who bought his campaign victory will expect to be paid back in favors - as it has been for over 200 years. Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. It must suck to live in such a pessimistic world. I see it as being realistic. And then use that info to take advantage of the system as it is. If I learned anything during 18+ years of schooling and 30+ years of business it is how to game the system. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|  |  |  |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by LiamJunket :said by Matt :said by LiamJunket :There is just a new corrupt sheriff running the town and the major players who bought his campaign victory will expect to be paid back in favors - as it has been for over 200 years. Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. It must suck to live in such a pessimistic world. I see it as being realistic. And then use that info to take advantage of the system as it is. Realistically, you're a pessimist? So the glass is always half empty, but at least that really is water in it? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change Ha ha, I grew in up Greensboro, NC, the home of the Woolworth lunch-counter sit-ins ... and on top of that most of my life was raised by a single Mom. I went to a High School that was 90% Black, 5% "Other" (We were the only ESL school) and 5% White. All during the Rodney King Trial and verdict. So I'm well versed in what you speak of. 
I will guarantee you one thing, I have drunk the Obama Kool-Aid, but I also know what a sugar crash is like. I'm not expecting him to fix everything that ails us in 4 years flat, but if we're not well on our way with plans clearly laid out ... I likely won't vote for him again.
Unless of course my choice is another Republican like the last few I've had the pleasure of choosing between. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by Matt :I will guarantee you one thing, I have drunk the Obama Kool-Aid, but I also know what a sugar crash is like. I'm not expecting him to fix everything that ails us in 4 years flat, but if we're not well on our way with plans clearly laid out ... I likely won't vote for him again. PREDICTION: I can almost guarantee you that nobody will vote for Obama again. The fact remains that (whomever you blame for it) this country is facing very hard times. Economically, militarily, and globally there is a hell of a lot going on that needs to be fixed. Obama's whole campaign of promised "change" is what likely got him elected. Now, given that it would be impossible for anyone to completely rectify the worlds problems in 4 years there will be millions of people in this country who feel let down and pissed. Worse yet, with Obama very publicly stating that he intends to completely dismantle our intelligence gathering systems (CIA, information extraction from terrorists doctrine, national security, etc.) God forbid something terrible happens again (unfortunately likely with his proposed changes). Obama's doctrine of "pacify the enemy and all will be well" will backfire on him the minute one American is killed. I honestly feel bad for the guy, as he (and his "liberal" administration) will be personally held responsible for everything that is likely to happen in the next 4 years. -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL
| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by wifi4milez :PREDICTION: I can almost guarantee you that nobody will vote for Obama again. There were quite a few folks saying during the campaign that regardless of who wins they're likely to be a one termer. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA
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| said by wifi4milez :
God forbid something terrible happens again (unfortunately likely with his proposed changes). Do you think the terrorists are actually even trying? Our lovely airline security system has been running a better than 50% failure rate for finding "practice" bombs. You gotta figure that, with those rates, the only reason nothing's blown up the last several years is that no one has bothered to try. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by nixen :said by wifi4milez :
God forbid something terrible happens again (unfortunately likely with his proposed changes). Do you think the terrorists are actually even trying? Our lovely airline security system has been running a better than 50% failure rate for finding "practice" bombs. You gotta figure that, with those rates, the only reason nothing's blown up the last several years is that no one has bothered to try. I am not sure if I am following you, as the terrorists have dramatically increased their attempts since 2001. I assume by your comments that you arent aware of how many terrorist attacks have been foiled over the past 8 years. The publicly available data (news bureaus, papers, tv, etc.) lists multiple accounts of this happening. One can only imagine that there are countless other events that have occurred that are still classified. -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by wifi4milez :I am not sure if I am following you, as the terrorists have dramatically increased their attempts since 2001. I assume by your comments that you arent aware of how many terrorist attacks have been foiled over the past 8 years. The publicly available data (news bureaus, papers, tv, etc.) lists multiple accounts of this happening. One can only imagine that there are countless other events that have occurred that are still classified. Real simple: if you've got a better than 60% failure-rate at finding bombs, then it's pretty safe to say that the only reason a jet hasn't been blotted out of the sky is because no one has bothered to try. There's similar failure rates for detecting objects that could be used to hijack a plane. It's a number that hasn't exactly been improving, in spite of "remedial training". -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07 New York, NY
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by nixen :said by wifi4milez :I am not sure if I am following you, as the terrorists have dramatically increased their attempts since 2001. I assume by your comments that you arent aware of how many terrorist attacks have been foiled over the past 8 years. The publicly available data (news bureaus, papers, tv, etc.) lists multiple accounts of this happening. One can only imagine that there are countless other events that have occurred that are still classified. Real simple: if you've got a better than 60% failure-rate at finding bombs, then it's pretty safe to say that the only reason a jet hasn't been blotted out of the sky is because no one has bothered to try. There's similar failure rates for detecting objects that could be used to hijack a plane. It's a number that hasn't exactly been improving, in spite of "remedial training". I totally agree that the TSA is a bunch of bumbling morons, and I agree that with regards to airline safety we have been largely lucky. I was referring to larger scale terrorist attacks that have been disrupted, I should have clarified that. I personally think that the TSA should be disbanded, all the employees fired, and the airports should instead be staffed with military personnel (national guard, etc.) who are carrying M16's. This would have numerous benefits, all of which are good. First, terrorists would think twice about pulling anything when they are faced with armed men in camo at the baggage screening area. Secondly, it would save the country millions (billions?) as we are already paying the soldiers/guardsmen/etc. for their services. -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   bear73 Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium join:2001-06-09 Grand Forks Afb, ND
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change I admire and praise your general sentiment, but must rain a little on your parade. You will never see Federal Military (ie. Active Duty/Reserves) in that position as it is illegal and against the intention of the military and Constitution. You MAY see Nat'l Guard as their job (as stated by Constitution) is to defend the home front. As to them already being paid, they are not paid unless activated, like training weekends or deployed worldwide. So, you aren't saving any money there, unless you pull them back from "over there". and if you do THAT, then you place more stress on an overly stressed military trying to cope with 2 war fronts and overseas basing requirements. As for the intention of Pres. Obama bringing the troops home? I believe that if it is done too quickly (ie. not listening VERY closely to the Generals on the ground) then we will just be going back over there or facing another Afghanistan(Taliban moved in after Russia moved out and we didn't support any pro-capitalism factions) -- If ya gotta go, Go with a SMILE! »www.thereligionofpeace.com/ | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   wifi4milez Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
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| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by bear73 :I admire and praise your general sentiment, but must rain a little on your parade. You will never see Federal Military (ie. Active Duty/Reserves) in that position as it is illegal and against the intention of the military and Constitution. You MAY see Nat'l Guard as their job (as stated by Constitution) is to defend the home front. As to them already being paid, they are not paid unless activated, like training weekends or deployed worldwide. So, you aren't saving any money there, unless you pull them back from "over there". and if you do THAT, then you place more stress on an overly stressed military trying to cope with 2 war fronts and overseas basing requirements. I am not so sure about that. It is illegal for the military to do police duties, however I dont think working in the airport constitutes that. There are always a few troops in the airports now, I wonder what status they have (active, reserve, guard, etc.). In either case, I would rather pay a reserve to man the baggage screening machine at the airport (in camo with a gun) any day over the idiots the TSA employs. -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |   I was there
@sbcglobal.net
| If you saw what I saw and spoke out in 2001 as I did you too would find out that they don't like some one pointing out that the corperation was being raided by contract companies. Notification was sent certified letter in 2001 to Joe N.
Reward = black listed from hire. | |
|  |   NetAdmin
join:2008-05-22
1 edit | said by LiamJunket :Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. His mantra of change is the real deal... He was being honest about the fact that the hands up the president's sock-pocket rear end have changed.  -- "This is a bus. You know how big a bus is?" | |
|  |  |   N3OGH Bear patrol must be working like a charm Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Don't expect anything to really change said by NetAdmin :said by LiamJunket :Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. His mantra of change is the real deal... He was being honest about the fact that the hands up the president's sock-pocket rear end have changed. Ya wanna bet?
Signed, Hillary C. and the cabinet of her husband's second term. 
At this point, the only thing that will "change" is the crew of jerks in DC sticking it to us..... -- Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power
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|  |  |  |  |  |   richdelb Go Hawks Go Premium join:2003-01-22 Algonquin, IL
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by LiamJunket :There is just a new corrupt sheriff running the town and the major players who bought his campaign victory will expect to be paid back in favors - as it has been for over 200 years. Politicians are all for sale and the new one with his mantra of "change" is no different. So Washington will dump billions in to the pipeline, but only millions will come out the other end. More true words have seldom been spoken | |
|   mr sean Professional Infidel Premium,ExMod 2001-07 join:2001-04-03 N. Absentia clubs:
| Competition... ...And not simply competition for funds from the stimulus package. Encourage start-ups and small carriers by insuring a slice of the pie. Utilizing already existing government incentives such as Community Connect Broadband Grant Program may help to funnel resources. -- How you can make the world a Better Place | |
|  |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Competition... said by mr sean :...And not simply competition for funds from the stimulus package. Encourage start-ups and small carriers by insuring a slice of the pie. Utilizing already existing government incentives such as Community Connect Broadband Grant Program may help to funnel resources. I think we'll see a move toward a Telecom Act of 1996 type strategy. Obama has proven that he knows how to research, listen to smart people, review history, and make the most intelligent informed decision based on all the available data. | |
|  |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Competition... said by Matt :I think we'll see a move toward a Telecom Act of 1996 type strategy. Obama has proven that he knows how to research, listen to smart people, review history, and make the most intelligent informed decision based on all the available data. Oh geez.
I suppose that explains his decision to push Congress to punt on the DTV deadline. For someone so "smart" he shows complete ignorance about how such transitions work and how much everyone involved has invested into making it happen.
Something tells me that Obama's DTV "strategy" is probably the tip of the iceberg regarding his overall strategy on "national broadband plans." -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
|  |  |  |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Competition... said by pnh102 :said by Matt :I think we'll see a move toward a Telecom Act of 1996 type strategy. Obama has proven that he knows how to research, listen to smart people, review history, and make the most intelligent informed decision based on all the available data. Oh geez. I suppose that explains his decision to push Congress to punt on the DTV deadline. For someone so "smart" he shows complete ignorance about how such transitions work and how much everyone involved has invested into making it happen. Something tells me that Obama's DTV "strategy" is probably the tip of the iceberg regarding his overall strategy on "national broadband plans." Well, a lot of people may have invested a lot to make it happen, but if it's not going to happen PROPERLY, then the right decision is to delay. If you read, no one thinks we're ready for the transition .. NO ONE. So delaying to avoid a catastrophe sounds like the smart decision to me. Let it progress and fall into a million shattered pieces without proper planning sounds like a certain Administration we're all almost rid of. | |
|  |  |  |  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
 |   Matt Quitting Caffeine - Argh Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Missing a TV show is not a big deal, but some of you may not be aware that TV is an integral part of the National Emergency Alert system. »www.fcc.gov/pshs/services/eas/ So simply saying "screw 11 million Americans" won't - and shouldn't - be allowed.
The digital transition (where it has occurred) has usually been disastrous.
Here's a quick quote from Robert X. Cringley:
In December, 2006 I was able to receive with acceptable quality ONE broadcast HD station on my HDTV. As of this morning two years later I am able to receive TWO acceptable HD signals.
I dont live in the boonies. I dont even live in the suburbs. I live less than seven miles from all five local HD transmission towers. I live in a colonial city that limits to 55 feet the maximum height of any building in my part of town. I have a name brand TV and a name brand antenna. Now my guess is that in the last two years digital receivers and antennas have both improved somewhat, but I should be able to get more than 40 percent of the signals that are supposed to be available.
»www.cringely.com/
We are not ready for this transition because we've had an scientifically inept baboon running the country for 8 years. So the right thing to do is to put the brakes on and implement a better strategy ... or "strategery" if that's what you're use to. | |
|  |  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
  anon101
@comcast.net
| they were given this money years ago Someone should calculate all the money these providers have gotten over the years in tax breaks and extra government money to build fiber a decade ago, or ISDN, or whatever. So much money has already been given and promises broken. When will there be accountability for these kinds of measures? | |
|  |   tim_k Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey Premium join:2002-02-02 Stewartstown, PA
·Millenicom
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| Re: they were given this money years ago said by anon101 :
Someone should calculate all the money these providers have gotten over the years in tax breaks and extra government money to build fiber a decade ago, or ISDN, or whatever. So much money has already been given and promises broken. When will there be accountability for these kinds of measures? Exactly. Verizon got several billion in tax breaks in PA for every customer to have access to fiber. But what did we get? Nothing! Verizon said anyone who wanted to pay for an OC3 would get fiber. That's how they got out of it. And I still can't get DSL (300' too far)or cable (100 yards too far). -- RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
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|  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Fredericksburg, TX
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| lol I'm smack dab in the middle of town, right next to a university (Colorado School of Mines, close enough that I can get a weak WiFi signal from their network, close enough that I can sit in a few classrooms and get onto my own network). Guess what speeds Qwest is giving me? That's right, 5 Mbps/ With interleave and PPPoE. End result: 4.25 Mbps on a good day with lousy latency and $47+per month. Oh, and 700k uploads (896 * 0.85 minus some because Qwest's last mile sucks).
So I'm going with Comcrap right now. AFter the promo expires, $65/month for 8 Mbit service. At least they overprovision so they deliver what they say they will.
I wouldn't give one red cent to the incumbents unless they have it down on paper the EXACT places that money will go,and by what period. For example, $1.2 million as a 3.25% loan to provide FTTN 20Mbps to everyone with a Golden, CO address. Should be enough slush in there to do the job right. Or $2 million to Windstream to upgrade their infrastructure to serve ADSL2+ to everyone in Fredericksburg, TX city limits. Both of these with stipulations that they should be done by August 1st, 2009.
Or give the money as a loan to Clear, to get them to deploy to more cities...stipulate that they should move up their city rollout schedule by 9 months if they're given $300M.
What's sad is that, if Clear was here, I'd be satisfied with 6/512 service for $40 per month, with interleave-DSL-like latency in all likelihood. The competition is either much more expensive or slow-as-molasses-in-midwinter.
But yeah, don't give money to incumbents unless there's paperwork saying every cent will be spent on improvements to infrastructure, or new infrastructure, with hefty penalties (like 100% of the "bailout" award) if things don't happen.
I gota get moving with my WiMAX plan though. I'd like a few million to get my dream up and running, and better me than the lobbyists, right? | |
|  |   RARPSL
join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY
| Re: lol said by iansltx :But yeah, don't give money to incumbents unless there's paperwork saying every cent will be spent on improvements to infrastructure, or new infrastructure, with hefty penalties (like 100% of the "bailout" award) if things don't happen. Even better - Pay them AS they hit milestones not before. IOW: They say what they want to do, set a schedule, and get paid WHEN they have done it. There would be no money up front (which would need to be recovered when they misuse it or do not follow through on their promises). As an alternative, give them just seed money to get started with the rest coming as they meet their targets (and get told that if they default, they will NOT be eligible for up front money in the future). | |
|  |  |  |  |   uid1307457 Premium join:2005-12-30 Tempe, AZ
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·Convergent Interne..
·DIRECTV
| said by iansltx :I'm smack dab in the middle of town, right next to a university (Colorado School of Mines, close enough that I can get a weak WiFi signal from their network, close enough that I can sit in a few classrooms and get onto my own network). Guess what speeds Qwest is giving me? That's right, 5 Mbps/ With interleave and PPPoE. End result: 4.25 Mbps on a good day with lousy latency and $47+per month. Oh, and 700k uploads (896 * 0.85 minus some because Qwest's last mile sucks). So I'm going with Comcrap right now. AFter the promo expires, $65/month for 8 Mbit service. At least they overprovision so they deliver what they say they will. I wouldn't give one red cent to the incumbents unless they have it down on paper the EXACT places that money will go,and by what period. For example, $1.2 million as a 3.25% loan to provide FTTN 20Mbps to everyone with a Golden, CO address. Should be enough slush in there to do the job right. Or $2 million to Windstream to upgrade their infrastructure to serve ADSL2+ to everyone in Fredericksburg, TX city limits. Both of these with stipulations that they should be done by August 1st, 2009. Or give the money as a loan to Clear, to get them to deploy to more cities...stipulate that they should move up their city rollout schedule by 9 months if they're given $300M. What's sad is that, if Clear was here, I'd be satisfied with 6/512 service for $40 per month, with interleave-DSL-like latency in all likelihood. The competition is either much more expensive or slow-as-molasses-in-midwinter. But yeah, don't give money to incumbents unless there's paperwork saying every cent will be spent on improvements to infrastructure, or new infrastructure, with hefty penalties (like 100% of the "bailout" award) if things don't happen. I gota get moving with my WiMAX plan though. I'd like a few million to get my dream up and running, and better me than the lobbyists, right? I pay for 6 (Qwest) and receive 2.... | |
|   PhoenixAZ Joshua Premium join:2004-01-04 Phoenix, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Isn't it the reason you lived in a rural area? Isn't one of the reasons people choose to live in a rural area, is to relieve themselves of "the city"? Broadband is a "city" thing. -- Joshua| About Me | |
|  |  See 15 replies to this post | |
  MrMoody Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| Upstream speeds quote: the telco finally began offering their slightly faster ADSL2+ service, in limited markets, at speeds of 12Mbps/896kbps or 20Mbps/896kbps. Those upstream speeds are as good as it gets for millions of Qwest customers.
Those upstream speeds are as good as it gets for ADSL of any version. The only way to go faster is bond lines or go to VDSL. -- "It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."-Thomas Edison | |
|  |   Bellundo
@bell.ca | Re: Upstream speeds Where did you read that? The upload limit for adsl2+ is 3 Mbps on Annex M. | |
|  nozzer
join:2004-06-25 Waltham, MA
| Only a regulated, provider neutral FTTH/N network will work What is needed is a provider neutral (all providers have equal access) FTTH network (possibly FTTN in more rural areas)like UTOPIA. Move the telcos out of the way if they don't want to play ball.
It would make sense to regulate Verizon to make FiOS provider neutral too (yes, they'll want some money for it, but in the longer term it will be much better longer term for the rest of us).
This is no different to what Eisenhower did to build the interstate network in the 50's (yes I know he used "defense" as the reason). | |
|  cpsycho
join:2008-06-03 Orangeville, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Small ISP group up? I think meny small isp's should group together and become a moderating and self sastained backbone company, since they would most likely would, in most cases, if the could, hook up rural areas. The small guys always seem to get the job done where the cable'cons and tel'cons fail. If obama was smart he would have the smaller companies do it and provide the loan bridges at a low interest rate. This will alos give an alternative in most us cities verses the good ol boys. If there "is" dark fiber sitting around that would make it much easier to set this whole thing up. | |
|  |  |  HeavyC
join:2004-03-31 | Re: Well Yeah, for a planetarium. Last I checked, I couldn't run down to Fry's and pick one of those up for $199. Give me a break. | |
|   fatness subtle Janitor join:2000-11-17 fishing
·EarthLink
Host: Earthlink DSL TekSavvy Forum Feature Requ.. Need Site Help? Rants, Raves, and ..
| easy to see the problem said by article :
Many can't get DSL at all because Qwest, like most carriers, won't deploy into the nation's less profitable corners. That's their right as publicly traded companies -- but the problem has been they don't want anybody else to, either. said by article :
it would make sense to remember that many of these companies already spent millions trying to keep under-served areas from wiring themselves. Most of them also spent millions fighting efforts to accurately map broadband in this country. said by article :
Many of these proposals have broad, bi-partisan support, but are designed by incumbent lobbyists to derail real, substantive telecom reform. said by LiamJunket :If I learned anything during 18+ years of schooling and 30+ years of business it is how to game the system. | |
|  cscottm
join:2002-05-09 Kent, WA | Where's this money going to come from? Oh yeah, it will come from the printing press, because the government doesn't have any money, unless it borrows more from China, & who knows for how long until China cuts the U.S's credit off. | |
|   Fox McCloud Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23 | 896kbps limit?
ADSL2+'s inherent 896kbps upstream limitation I thought ADSL2+ could hit about 1.5 megabits up and around 3.5 megabits with Annex M? | |
|  |   MrMoody Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| Re: 896kbps limit? The theoretical limit is 1.4Mb, but with guard bands and noise limitations, the real hardware is limited to 1024K, less overhead. You'd never get it to sync over that except on very short lines.
Annex M doesn't exist in the US to my knowledge and would require new equipment. Might as well use VDSL. -- "It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."-Thomas Edison | |
|  |  |   Fox McCloud Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
2 edits | Re: 896kbps limit?
said by MrMoody :The theoretical limit is 1.4Mb, but with guard bands and noise limitations, the real hardware is limited to 1024K, less overhead. You'd never get it to sync over that except on very short lines. Annex M doesn't exist in the US to my knowledge and would require new equipment. Might as well use VDSL. oh, Annex M is non-existent in the US? Interesting, didn't know that. So, these DSL companies in the US that are saying "1 megabit up" are going by the max sync speed (1024) and not so much the actual speed their customers will be getting, right?
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but ADSL2+ can be bonded, right? Therefore, if you had 2 10 meg down+896kbps up lines together, it'd actually be 20 meg down and 1.7 megabits up, correct? Is there a limit to how many lines can be bonded together?
edit: I also don't see how VDSL will ever catch on...it's good for extremely short lengths, but degrades so quickly it becomes pretty crummy pretty fast....why not go with VDSL2, which will achieve even higher speeds on those short runs and have the same speeds as ADSL2+ over long distances?
edit edit: also, what about UDSL? -- "True Patriotism is more closely linked with dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security...I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist abusive state power." -Ron Paul | |
|  acoustix
join:2004-01-30 Fort Dodge, IA | Seattle I wasn't aware that Seattle was a rural area. | |
|   Zak_D_H Premium,VIP join:2007-01-04 Salt Lake City, UT
·Qwest.net
| Money Should Go to Utopia or local governments I live in a fairly well populated residential zone and I can only get 1.5mb ADSL from qwest. I cant even get the fastest ADSL plan let alone ADSL2.
Qwest cant even provide 7mb or better to most of the existing customers that already live in Urban America. They are not about to start installing DSL in Rural zones. | |
|  |   Simba7
join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT
| Bring me Fiber!! I think the next obvious upgrade would be Fiber. Cable is pretty good, but you can only squeeze so much. With everything becoming digital, it *IS* getting better. As for *DSL, come on. It's OLD.
*DSL is outdated technology trying to milk more out of the old copper pair. I think they should kill it off and finally upgrade their infrastructure.
I still think they should invest in White Space Broadband. For more advanced users, use Cable or Fiber. -- Bresnan 15M/1M|Mine[P4HT 3.2GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|Wife's[P4 2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo] | |
|   Bellundo
@bell.ca | 896 kps upload limit on adsl2+ Huh?? The limit on upload speed on adsl2+ is 3 Mbps. | |
|   bent not broken Premium join:2004-10-04 Longmont, CO clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Reregulate What is needed is re-regulation. There's only one ILEC that is competing on a global level, and that's Verizon. The rest are pushing dated technology with serious limitations in mon- or duopoly market conditions and without the regulations that usually protect the public in those scenarios.
How Qwest is getting away with advertising "Fiber Optic Fast" internet is beyond me, even with the ubiquitous asterisk. Can we claim 56k Dial Up to be "Fiber Optic Fast" because the packets eventually travel Lvl3 or ATTs fiber? I guess I could get "Fiber Optic Fast" from Qwest if I wanted to shell out for a OC, but pitching VDSL or ADSL2 as "Fiber Optic Fast" is horseshit. Fortunately for Qwest most of America can't tell horseshit from bullshit.
How do you say "Would you like frys with that?" in Chinese? It's a phrase your kids are going to need to know. -- »www.lp.org/issues/family-budget
"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau | |
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