 
Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting | Get your popcorn ready Me thinks Mr. Cohen has been drinking the MPAA bourbon.
This should be an entertaining ride.... | |
|
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Soooo.... quote:
it would be significantly easier for us to update the clients with a fix than it would be for an ISP to update their hardware/software to detect any such changes we make.
...what. You're buying yourself a couple months. I mean, just go download TCP view and watch how BT acts. I don't think it would be very hard to figure out if a client is using BT based on how BT port usage looks and throttle based on that.
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
 | |
| 
TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Soooo.... said by Combat Chuck  : quote:
it would be significantly easier for us to update the clients with a fix than it would be for an ISP to update their hardware/software to detect any such changes we make.
...what. You're buying yourself a couple months. I mean, just go download TCP view and watch how BT acts. I don't think it would be very hard to figure out if a client is using BT based on how BT port usage looks and throttle based on that. I agree with you. The vendors that sell packet shaping hardware and software can make changes pretty much as fast as bit torrent vendors can figure ways around it. And the vendors have an advantage. Most of the users won't adapt to the new encrypted bit torrent software as fast as an ISP can roll it out to their much more limited switches.
--
--
Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page
Conrail Photo Album | |
|
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Number of connections Nevermind about Bram Cohen. He's been bought by the establishment. Anyway, the ISPs I've seen mentioned lately are limiting the number of connections a BitTorrent user is able to make, which encryption would be helpless to stop.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."-John Callari | |
|
| 
Zaber
When all are gone, there shall be none
join:2000-06-08
Cleveland, OH
clubs:
 ·Expedient
·XO COMMUNICATIONS
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Number of connections said by AmeritecTech : Anyway, the ISPs I've seen mentioned lately are limiting the number of connections a BitTorrent user is able to make, which encryption would be helpless to stop. Which brings up the question: "Why am I paying for a faster tier?" BT is, IMHO, the best way to download free software, it keeps the bandwidth costs down for the developer. Think about it when the next Fedora comes out, how much would it cost RedHat to let everyone download it from their servers, compare that to what it costs them to run a tracker, and let the users download it from each other.
--
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he will feed himself for a lifetime | |
|
|
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| said by AmeritecTech :Nevermind about Bram Cohen. He's been bought by the establishment. I love how you guys dump on anyone who decides to try to make money off of their creation. It's like you celebrate failure.
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
| | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Re: Number of connections quote:
I love how you guys dump on anyone who decides to try to make money off of their creation. It's like you celebrate failure.
It has nothing to do with success or failure, and everything to do with what Cohen himself at one time stated BT was supposed to be.
Or did we all forget Mr. Perfect Bram Cohen's old antiestablishment, pro-warez tirade that came to light in the last year that was on one of his older pages?
Being "bought" doesn't have to involve money, and Cohen is a "sell-out" because he's done a 180 on what he originally claimed BT was all about, and supposed to be and facilitate. | |
|
| | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Number of connections said by Primis1 :Or did we all forget Mr. Perfect Bram Cohen's old antiestablishment, pro-warez tirade that came to light in the last year that was on one of his older pages? If you really think that is the best indicator of his intent then BT is a miserable failure as far as he's concerned. He's not that dumb.
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
| | |
| | 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Number of connections said by Combat Chuck :said by AmeritecTech :Nevermind about Bram Cohen. He's been bought by the establishment. I love how you guys dump on anyone who decides to try to make money off of their creation. It's like you celebrate failure. I love how you always try to hijack the actual subject by posting some retarded pro-corporate spinned crap like this.
FYI: we find it ridiculous that after backing the 'free' side for years, he's suddenly trying to downplay the very obvious abuses ISPs are already doing - and misteriously all this is happening soon after we was hired by the 'other' side... pathetic. | |
|
| | | 
G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: Number of connections Shhsssss.. There's actually only ONE neo-con pro-corporate poster on the site. He just uses a bunch of different identities (you know which ones they are). His masters (comcrap,verizon,sbc,etc) will beat him if he doesn't post at least one inane comment every day. He only posts from the scripts the fascist corporate pigs give to him, and he is incapable of understanding logic. Hey, 10 dollar a day, that's pretty good for a troll. Not really, but when you don't even have a grade school degree, your job options are limited to either a fundy creationists, a republican mouthpiece, or a paid astroturfer.
--
Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
|
| | | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | Re: Number of connections said by G_Poobah :and he is incapable of understanding logic. I find it funny that the conspiracy theorist speaks of logic.
I don't know about anyone else but I've only had 2 identity's on this site jmf270 from way back in 99 00 that I never posted under and this one. But it the voices in your head tell you we're all the same who am I to argue.
BTW care to point out how my post was pro corporate in any way?
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
| | | | |
| | | | 
sowhatsowhat
@adelphia.net
| Re: Number of connections Shhsssss.. There's actually only ONE neo-con pro-corporate poster on the site. He just uses a bunch of different identities (you know which ones they are). His masters (comcrap,verizon,sbc,etc) will beat him if he doesn't post at least one inane comment every day. He only posts from the scripts the fascist corporate pigs give to him, and he is incapable of understanding logic. Hey, 10 dollar a day, that's pretty good for a troll. Not really, but when you don't even have a grade school degree, your job options are limited to either a fundy creationists, a republican mouthpiece, or a paid astroturfer.
One of those names being G_Poobah ? | |
|
| | | |
sowhatsowhat
@adelphia.net
| Shhsssss.. There's actually only ONE neo-con pro-corporate poster on the site. He just uses a bunch of different identities (you know which ones they are). His masters (comcrap,verizon,sbc,etc) will beat him if he doesn't post at least one inane comment every day. He only posts from the scripts the fascist corporate pigs give to him, and he is incapable of understanding logic. Hey, 10 dollar a day, that's pretty good for a troll. Not really, but when you don't even have a grade school degree, your job options are limited to either a fundy creationists, a republican mouthpiece, or a paid astroturfer. | |
|
| | | | |
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX | Re: Number of connections Why does this same post keep displaying? I think we get the idea. | |
|
| | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| said by kamm :I love how you always try to hijack the actual subject by posting some retarded pro-corporate spinned crap like this. Hey, if people are gonna start calling people sellouts, I'm gonna point out the stupidity of it. You can't just make an offhand, off-topic remark and then expect everyone to stay on topic. You can't have it both ways Kamm.
I'd like to know how you think my comment was in any way pro-corporate other than the fact that I don't really give a rats ass weather Mr. Cohen works for the **aa's or the double secret underground piracy network of doom. But I'm sure you'll just mysteriously disappear like you do every other time I ask you to explain your ridiculous comments.
Maybe the other one will come in and jump on me for pointing that out.
These more than 2 sided issues really baffle you guys don't they. Your training really hasn't prepared you for anyone who doesn't fit into one or the other group.
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
| | | |
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| Re: Number of connections Bram Cohen had militant plans to run a search engine for torrents with unfiltered results. He takes industry money, and suddenly he filters out much of their content. I don't blame him for selling out. Selling out can be quite profitable. But for you to say that he didn't sell out is preposterous.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."-John Callari | |
|
| | | | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: Number of connections said by AmeritecTech :Bram Cohen had militant plans to run a search engine for torrents with unfiltered results. He takes industry money, and suddenly he filters out much of their content. I don't blame him for selling out. Selling out can be quite profitable. But for you to say that he didn't sell out is preposterous. All I know is that the "manifesto" was plausibly explained away, and that Mr. Cohen isn't dumb nor would his thought processes be considered normal.
I'm just saying that I wouldn't necessarily claim hes a sellout because of the manifesto. Honestly I don't know if he is or isn't, but you must admit that the term sellout is usually used in a derogatory manner.
The other posts I've made in this branch weren't really meant for you...they were meant for the small band of posters who have decided to follow certain individuals around saying they're the same person, or that they're pro this or that; basically making claims they won't (cause they can't) support. And true to form they mysteriously became silent once they were called on it.
--
Asking those who disagree with you to find support of your arguements is like asking an assailant if you can borrow his gun. | |
|
| |
AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX | Who's dumping him? I just said he's been bought by the establishment, and he has. Bully for him. I'd do the same. | |
|
| 
Nemokrad
join:2002-04-24
Miami, FL
| said by AmeritecTech :Anyway, the ISPs I've seen mentioned lately are limiting the number of connections a BitTorrent user is able to make, which encryption would be helpless to stop. How can they limit BT's connections if the traffic is encrypted therefore not detectable (theoretically) by the ISP.
--
"To create a new standard takes something that's not just a little bit different. It takes something that's really new and captures people's imaginations. Macintosh meets that standard." -- Bill Gates | |
|
| | 
Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
1 edit | Re: Number of connections said by Nemokrad :said by AmeritecTech :Anyway, the ISPs I've seen mentioned lately are limiting the number of connections a BitTorrent user is able to make, which encryption would be helpless to stop. How can they limit BT's connections if the traffic is encrypted therefore not detectable (theoretically) by the ISP. Flow analysis, nothing besides P2P opens up hundreds of connections simultaneously. | |
|
rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| why does he care? Does he somehow make money off BT? This sounds a little too political for a guy that should probably be hiding under the ground from the RIAA
--
"Hows your French toast?" "Smelly and ungrateful, but this AMERICAN toast is great!" | |
|
|
miccheck12
@COMMNET.EDU | Re: why does he care? The guy doesn't need to hide from anyone, he works for them now, unfortunate really. | |
|
G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Blocking won't work "Throttling isn't very common".. and "Existing hardware can detect it".. Well, if that's the case, then why in the world should he care? It's a fork in the code, and if it doesn't benefit anyone, then it will die. If it's better than the current standard, then everyone will use it. I know for a fact that I'll update my client to help my friendly canadian friends bypass the corporate pigs, as will everyone else. The only persons 'hurt' by the changes are ISP's that are illegally filtering traffic, oh, and the **AA's and their monitoring goons. (of which most are going bankrupt now).
--
Sure the internet has lots of porn and piracy, but I'm sure there's a downside to it. | |
|
| grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Blocking won't work What do you mean going bankrupt? | |
|
|
Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs: | Think Ellacoya, Allot, Packeteer, etc are doing quite well. Thanks in fact to these attempts to hide P2P traffic and make it mobile means that more sophisticated gear such as theirs is needed to control it. | |
|
chex383
join:2003-03-13
Montreal, QC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
1 edit | Remote encrypted VPN the only way The only way to work around this is for users to setup remote VPN accounts with IP providers who provide access to the Net' free of any traffic-shaping or limits.
I know there is one company out there doing this:
»www.hamachi.cc
which is a easier way to get going with this.
But a remote-VPN solution will work around a whole bunch of issues with Last-Mile providers 'abusing' their users.
-- chex | |
|
|
schoolboy
@208.233.x.x | Re: Remote encrypted VPN the only way i like hamachi on my plate, maybe my pc will like it too.
let the games continue. where theres awill theres a way, who has more will.? | |
|
|
Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:
·BlueYonder Interne..
·Be There
1 edit | said by chex383 :The only way to work around this is for users to setup remote VPN accounts with IP providers who provide access to the Net' free of any traffic-shaping or limits. I know there is one company out there doing this: » www.hamachi.ccwhich is a easier way to get going with this. But a remote-VPN solution will work around a whole bunch of issues with Last-Mile providers 'abusing' their users. -- chex Won't stop the statistical monitoring anyway, the *only* thing that opens connections in anything like the number of connections P2P programs do is P2P.
Just checked. All they do is act as a 'tracker' to connect PCs on a P2P basis.
So essentially you run a P2P client (Hamachi) in order to run another P2P client over the tunnels you produce with Hamachi.
Incredibly inefficient and again no use against the statistical flow based monitoring that Ellacoya et al do routinely. | |
|
schoolboy
@208.233.x.x | i like this war it would be significantly easier for us to update the clients with a fix than it would be for an ISP to update their hardware/software to detect any such changes we make."
this will be fun to watch and read about | |
|
petecellar
join:2002-10-15
Philadelphia, PA
| uTorrent client Not that this has anything to do with the encryption.
I don't use bittorrent much, but I recently tried out the uTorrent client just for the hell of it and I was really impressed.
As for Bram - it's out of his hands now, so he can shut his pie-hole. | |
|
DayHawk
join:2003-07-28
Canada
| throttling BT I personally love using bitorrent. It's fast, easy, and has great search results. When they started throttling it (i have Rogers) I just got really annoyed. First off, they advertise an 'unlimited' connection. This, then gets constrained by a 60 GB cap. THEN they throttle p2p. What's next, limiting msn chat messages to a few words every time you send? (/end sarcasm). As someone already said in this thread, dont advertise speeds you cant deliver. | |
|
| Drex_CS
join:2005-05-11
canada | Re: throttling BT they advertise "unlimited" access to the internet.. meaning no Hourly limit to how much you can search. this does not specify unlimited bandwidth, something most people here seem to miss on. | |
|
xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| u torrent is a real nice bt client ive been using it for a few mmonths now and it sure beats the shit out of azureus (a sys resources hog)..ive used abc and mainline and i think utorrent is the best one out there right now. well, best one that suits my needs anyways.
havent experienced any packet shaping that i know of yet, cant wait to move my bt server to the FIOS connection for a solid 2mbps upload speed.
--
I am not herbert. | |
|
| jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: u torrent is a real nice bt client i heard if you dont have cache enabled utorrent constantlt writes to your hd which can cause damage,
to defend Azureus, cant beat safepeer or rss feeds. i can almost max out my 12mb connect with Az.
u are right about resource hogging, when i had less ram it would slow things down sometimes, now at a gig and I never really notice any issues.
utorrent is definately making waves, lots of people switching over to it. Ill stick with Az, may consider uT for an older system i have with less resources. | |
|
| |
NotSoAnonymous
@cox.net
| Re: u torrent is a real nice bt client Utorrent also causes some routers to splutter and need a hard reset. Great program and all but yeah, it has some -known- growing pains. Linksys has some firmware alternatives, my netgear router does not.
Back to the real subject, the main client is hardly the most popular one around anymore anyway I think.. | |
|
|
|
|
|
Bit Torrent Encryption Arms Race