 |  |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc Kyle
join:2003-10-15 Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: Why would you block bandwidth overage warnings? And as far as using email; who would read an email from their ISP? or who checks their ISP email? Especially if its full of AT$T Yahoo!, Rogers Yahoo! or Verizon Yahoo! ads trying to sell you something you already have. Plus yahoo itself doesnt provide that that great of an email service let alone us an ISPs. | |
|  |  |  |   sbrook Premium,Mod join:2001-12-14 H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host: Rogers Bell Canada
| Re: Why would you block bandwidth overage warnings? One of the big problems is that the bandwidth warning is out of date by the time you receive it! It can be at least 8, but more likely 24 hours or more behind. Moreover, Rogers bandwidth measurements are often so wrong it's laughable. Like the guy who was away on vacation for an entire month and consumed over 80GB.
But the bottom line issue is that this is the thin end of the wedge. ISPs want to make more money and they'll try every way they can ... they wanted to charge the sender ... they wanted us to get to the internet through an ad infested portal ... and next it will be injected ads. | |
|  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
edit: April 24th, @03:32PM
| Re: How is this not a violation of copyright? Ottawa's Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic (CIPPIC) made a similar argument last year: quote: "When Rogers modifies the html file in their cache and sends it to its subscribers, it means the Web page has become a derivative work of the original page under copyright,"; McOrmond said. "So if the licence for the particular Web site being modified does not allow for derivative works, Rogers would becomes a pirate. This is a modified work which is considered a worse violation of copyright than verbatim distribution for free."
Don't know how effective that argument would be in court given they're essentially using a frame and no original content is distorted. ISPs might not want to risk a fight with the courts or network neutrality brigades though. | |
|  |  hottboiinnc Kyle
join:2003-10-15 Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| because its not replacing anything on the website. its being put along in another frame- as pictured above; or above the actual web site content.
Not everything is a violation of copyright laws. Especially this because as i stated; its not actually altering the website content. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   adisor19
join:2004-10-11 | Huh ? It IS altering the website content. When i request an HTML document, i expect that HTML document to be what i requested. If the contents change, whether it's in a separate frame or not, then we have a BIG problem.
Adi | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  hottboiinnc Kyle
join:2003-10-15 Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
edit: April 24th, @03:38PM
| Re: How is this not a violation of copyright? very true. that part about leaching is true if the ISP does use it for such. I don't see a problem with the system though if its a very low speed tier that the ISP is giving away for dollars a month- such as maybe 96k by 56k for say like $10 per month- i wouldnt see a problem with it then.
Although i would like to know when i would reaching my monthly cap and this could be very usfull for such a thing or Amber Alerts or such. | |
|  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: How is this not a violation of copyright? Why not simply have another window open... oh wait.. pop-ups for ad content provider revenue tried this in the past, where hundreds of redirects and pop-ups would invade your screen. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |   why82923
@sbc.com
| said by Skeedatl :They modify the site owners HTML to inject their javascript execution line then forward the modified HTML to the user (whose browser then renders the HTML along with the freshly injected executes the javascript). The HTML of site owners like Google is copyrighted and it's a violation of copyright law to modify copyrighted works without permission of the copyright holder, especially for profit. You mean that HTML that Google stole from the site owner in the first place to build their index?
 | |
|  |  |  hottboiinnc Kyle
join:2003-10-15 Toledo, OH | Re: How is this not a violation of copyright? especially when they cache versions of the websites on their own servers all around the world. Google is basically taking from someone. And their actually keeping it until they refresh to save again. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   sbrook Premium,Mod join:2001-12-14 H0H 0H0 | This is one of the reasons that many sites do not permit referrals ... so that their page cannot be framed inside another as we often see. | |
|  |  |   pog Premium join:2004-06-03 Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: How is this not a violation of copyright? said by sbrook :This is one of the reasons that many sites do not permit referrals ... so that their page cannot be framed inside another as we often see. Just curious... the referer string is a function of the browser... which normally just uses the URL of whatever page it's on.
If code is injected or modified, does the URL also get changed? I don't see this being necessary... and, if it isn't, then denying access based on referer is not going to help... -- My Site | |
|   wruckman Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25 Northwood, OH | Linux All the more reason to use a Linux system as your home router. | |
|  |  cornelius785
join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA | Re: Linux well if you ignore power, money, and time, then sure. | |
|  |  |  Lazlow
join:2006-08-07 Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Linux Corne
You will have to translate that for me. Most of the linksys routers can/do run linux so I do not see power or money being an issue. As far as time goes I do the same things as I did running XP but have none of the headaches. Not one virus since switching. I only have to reboot when I change kernels ( used to be twice a day on XP). I have not had to reinstall once due to OS flaking out (averaged once every three months with XP). All on the same hardware. Linux has saved me weeks of time per year. | |
|  |  |  |   wruckman Ruckman.net
join:2007-10-25 Northwood, OH | Re: Linux Agreed. Nothing like a good ole' Openwrt install. | |
|   chd176
join:2003-01-10 Winfield, AL
·CenturyTel Inc.
| no thanks If my ISP injected Ads into my browser then I don't expect to pay anything for the service. That's IMO, although companies are already doing this (Directv with the H20 are starting to inject ads into the H20's guide and prices increased...ironic) I guess pay more for less is the "in" thing these days... -- 1.5/256 CenturyTel PPPoE DSL line | |
|  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: no thanks I think I'll be going OTA HD soon enough, with TV prices soaring. I'm able to get 19 OTA HD channels with a pair of amplified rabbit ears. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |  ddevilduck Premium join:2002-07-26 Minneapolis, MN | Re: no thanks I only do OTA HD I live 30 miles from Minneapolis and get 10 HD channels and 21 digital channels that are rebroadcasts of SD channels. Screw paying cable or dish to see what I can get for free or pay a small monthly fee to get in my mail. | |
|  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: no thanks I can probably do better if I get a 'real' antenna (I'm 30 miles + 1 mountain range away). My inlaws in the San Fernando Valley get 53 HD OTA channels. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: no thanks said by chd176 :If they're going to charge you by the byte, then it's possible their own ads and whatever else they "inject", can put you over the cap.  What a deal! They put you over, then charge you for it! Can you say Hosts file? Exactly...extra consumption to put capped users over the top. These days, its all screwed. a) Throttled/filtered (Bell / Comcast) b) Capped (Rogers / Time Warner) Now add injected ads to consume MORE bandwidth... oh wait, they're making profits on both ends. - Overages - Marketing -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| said by biff420 :said by chd176 :If my ISP injected Ads into my browser then I don't expect to pay anything for the service.SNIPPED If they're going to charge you by the byte, then it's possible their own ads and whatever else they "inject", can put you over the cap.  What a deal! They put you over, then charge you for it! Corporate GREED at its finest! -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
|   woody7 Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA | question?? Would a SPI Firewall block this? as the "packet" is not the same as the one that is expected? It is altered by the injection? Curious -- BlooMe | |
|   DeeplyShrouded
@comcast.net
| Blocking unwanted content Well, there was an article on DSLR a while back about a guy who was blocking FireFox because people were blocking the ads on his site. Well, my response to him was, if you can't afford to run a site, then you shouldn't. (Sarcasm on) Yes people really do become rich from that .000000000001 cent click! (Sarcasm off)
I also stated to him the following analogy: I pay for a telephone line. No telemarketer has the right to use that line, and my time to try to make money for themselves.
The same thing applies here: My computer. I bought it, and I paid for it. My ISP, I pay a monthly fee for that too. As long as my bill is paid in full and on time, that is all the ISP should have to worry about.
I'll gladly pay "overuse fees" when my ISP stops all the spam that comes into my email box, filters all the probe attempts on my IP address, and kills all the flashing banners and other useless crap I don't need to see.
A good example is the front page of Google. Their logo, a search box, two buttons. That's it. No ads, no news, no flashing banners, no flash animation. It's a simple page made to do one thing. Accept information for a search.
How about an ISP disconnect any PC that's sending massive amounts of spam? How about they disconnect anyone that has a PC running a rouge bot and is part of a botnet?
"Our users are using too much bandwidth" they cry. Well? If you cut out the spam, probes, botnets, and crap like that off your network, less bandwidth would be used wouldn't it? Just give me the content from the page I'm on and THAT'S IT. Simple solution!
It would also be nice for Yahoo's email filter to be able to filter *.domain. After all, I'm in the USA, I don't know anyone in Africa, Nigeria, or any other country that decides to tell me that out of the billions of people on the net, that I have inherited millions of dollars from Prince Whatthefuck'shisname." Yeah, and I was born yesterday too. Give me a break!
It's an unfortunate situation that people have to defend their PC's with routers, firewalls and virus protection, but it's a fact of the internet these days.
The bottom line is, most if not all ISP's are aware of botnets on their networks. Does it really cost all that much to block the ports those bots are using? Oh wait, that takes time, time that has to be paid for. I know! Let's send out more ads to make up for it! | |
|  |  |  |   MicroWISP
join:2008-01-30 TX Republic
| First let me say that I am an ISP owner, albeit a small one, ok I'm ducking from the swings now, lol.
I think that this PerfTech is a wonderful tool that could benefit my network and it's subscribers immensely. I don't see it as a gateway to revenue from ad streams, (see Phorm and NebuAd) but as a way that I can get information quickly and efficiently to individual subscribers. If I were to push Amber alerts, weather updates, and other non-ISP related content to our subs, I would have them fill out a quick "What would you like for content" kind of form before hand.
This can be a useful tool for 'slow pay' customers, who you really don't want to disconnect, but they don't pay any attention to email reminders from billing. It can also be a great tool for us to inform our subscribers of either planned or unplanned internet outages, equipment upgrades, etc.
Being a wireless ISP with multiple Access Points and HotSpots, we have to be on the lookout for unauthorized users on our network. PerfTech seems to have a tool called their Subscriber PC Audit tool that looks like it can make this job a lot easier.
DeeplyShrouded, we do disconnect subs that are sending out massive amounts of SPAM. We are also constantly watching usage patterns for bots, and if a subs PC is suspected of infection a free virus check etc. is offered and required to continue using our network. I see this PerfTech tool as a great way to look for these patterns via the 'Abuse Sentry' module which apparently monitors for SPAMming then shuts down the offending outgoing email port of the sub if found. To me that is a great tool for managing our network.
Something everyone has to remember. It's my network, not yours... Yes you rent it from me on an hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis but it is still 'my network'. If you don't like my network, connect to the internet through someone else's network, or acquire your own infrastructure for a direct trunk connection. I, like other small ISPs will give the majority # of our subscribers the best experience I can on my network. For me at this moment in time that means internet browsing is my top priority. My subs want to see fast speeds and they don't like waiting for a page to load. If a year from now, the majority of our subs were gamers, then I guess ping times and latency would be top priority. I do not restrict your bandwidth during peak hours, nor do I block your content. Of course your Peer to Peer download or Torrent client may have to take a back seat to someone else opening up www.google.com or any other Http, as it has a higher priority than you.
Bandwidth is expensive, especially for us little guys. We have to be very careful how we allocate and manage what we have available to keep our subs happy and our networks operating efficiently and safely. I can't block the SPAM you're receiving, 'cause you might want it. I can and do try to filter probe attempts to your IP address to keep your PC safe by using appropriate firewalls. As far as those flashing banners go, well once again you might like that stuff so I'm going to leave those alone too. And filtering email by domain... good idea, but what if you are prince what's his name's brother in law and I accidentally block your email. Well you won't care for that I'm sure, so I will leave your email management up to you, unless of course for some reason there are 1000 emails per hour leaving your PC, then I will probably give you a call and ask if you are doing a monthly newsletter to your friends or planning a high school reunion, and if not let you know your PC is probably infected with something and offer to assist you in fixing it.
In closing, let me say that I use my own network practically every day. I am behind the firewalls, bandwidth allocating and shaping devices and other hardware/software like any other subscriber on our network. If it isn't working properly, I'm not happy. If I'm not happy, chances are good someone else isn't happy. I am not on a special IP address that gives me gobs of bandwidth and bypasses our protocols and shaping systems, even though I could be. I prefer to experience our network exactly as our customers do to continually monitor quality and efficiency. Maybe some of the larger ISPs should try this too. -- "Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it." | |
|   MrMoody Beleaguered Middle Class
join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC | Raise your hands How many people think that ISPs will reduce the cost of your internet when they start injecting ads? -- The public is a poor business manager. | |
|  ssokolow
join:2008-03-23 | What about automated user agents? Any Rogers users here who can tell us whether these "harmless notices" have been interfering with RSS/Atom feeds by returning unexpected content in response to an HTTP request? | |
|  robertfl Premium join:2005-10-10 Mary Esther, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Cox HSI
| block ads there is software that can (and does) block ads. it's in all of the machines here
»www.admuncher.com works much better (though, not free) then firefox ad removal which does not block javabased flash ads.
-rob -- »www.cband.info - unique radio you won't find elsewhere. join the chat and join our growing family. | |
|  |   avantare Go Tribe
join:2000-02-16 Akron, OH
| Re: block ads said by robertfl :there is software that can (and does) block ads. it's in all of the machines here » www.admuncher.com works much better (though, not free) then firefox ad removal which does not block javabased flash ads. -rob Use Firefox with AdBlock+ and NoScript. I do and NEVER see any ads, even Java based and Flash based.
Chuck -- "If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." - George Gobel | |
|   Gts Hi
join:2000-10-27 Astoria, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage
| Cable Found a Way to not upgrade their headends, but to put the cost on the consumer. I've been stating this since the start of caps. Some cable co's just do not want to put any sort of revenue into their networks at all.
Isn't it funny though, how all of cable co's are doing these caps with Docsis 3.0 on the horizon. | |
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