  DerchPremium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI | What a crock! Why can't BellSouth be worried about speed increases and network improvements instead of one town in the middle of LA!!! They could have spent all of the PR money on upgrades. | |
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 |  RobIn Deo speramus.Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3 | Re: What a crock! said by Derch:Why can't BellSouth be worried about speed increases and network improvements instead of one town in the middle of LA!!! They could have spent all of the PR money on upgrades. Government's fault. They've given these companies so much power and now it's biting them in the ass.
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| said by Derch:Why can't BellSouth be worried about speed increases and network improvements instead of one town in the middle of LA!!! They could have spent all of the PR money on upgrades. Nah - the money Bellsouth spent is chump change to them.
Besides, the telcos aren't interested in making things better for their customers, they are more interested in crushing any potential competition.
That's what monopolies do. | |
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| bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | "I call this behavior 'regulatory capitalism.'" - FCC Chairman William E. Kennard, Sept. 2000
said by »www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Kennard/200···019.html :Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists and politicians, instead of plant, people and customer service. It's always easier to prowl the halls of Congress than compete in the rough and tumble of the marketplace. Regulatory capitalists would rather litigate than innovate. | |
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| | | Hey guys I work for a Telco so here is the other side...How can a regulated company compete with the entity regulating it? Telcos are regulated by government. Also look at it like this, where did the city come up with the money for the Fiber network..our taxes and now they will charge you to use that fiber that you paid for already. I am sure it is easy to keep a profit margin doing business like that. | |
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| |  damonlabPremium
join:2001-05-02
Detroit, MI | Re: What a crock! Our taxes paid to subsidize all of those telco connections. I am sure it is easy for telcos to keep a profit margin doing business like that. | |
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| | tdaigle
join:2001-03-27
Youngsville, LA | 
I'm a resident of the city. We had a city wide vote on a proposal to issue normal everyday municipal bonds to pay for the project. The fiber and system WILL not be paid with TAX money. The citizens approved by a democratic city vote. The citizens voted YES by an overwhelming number for the proposal.
How can Bellsouth and Cable companies say the offering of Fiber to the home by the City of Lafayette is not legal. WE voted to have the process of selling the bonds and starting the infrastructure building of the system. I, a citizen of Lafayette, voted for the bond sales for the project, as did many others. Now Bell-Going-South Chicken you know what, is tying up my tax money by filing bogus and frivolous lawsuits. MY City Representatives are not going to sit back and let BellSouth and Cox tell the citizens/taxpayers on OUR City what we can and cannot do with our government and money!
As mentioned before, Bellsouth and Cox are using such tactics because they ARE scared of losing their MONOPOLY in our city. They would actually have to start spending money to upgrade services with every damn price increase they impose every year without no addition product upgrades....
This subject makes me furious!!!!!1 Urrrrrrrgggh!!!! | |
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| | ricep5Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | "where did the city come up with the money for the Fiber network..our taxes and now they will charge you to use that fiber that you paid for already"
Wrong Junior.
The selling of bonds pays for the network, not taxes. Only subscriber revenue pays for those bonds. If a taxpayer didn't want to subscribe, they wouldn't owe a thing. Even if the thing went completely bust, the bonds could be sold to a 3rd party where they could be the owner/operator or the assets sold to pay off bondholders.
As the earlier post said, this is a clear case of "regulatory capitalism" | |
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| | JohnSJ
join:2004-08-14
Lafayette, LA | It makes me crazy to keep hearing the silly idea that cities regulate telecos (or cablecos).This is supposed to evoke the vision of big mean government picking on poor little free enterprise company. What a crock! This BellSouth International Mega Corp with an income to rival medium-sized countries beating on Lafayette. Come on.
The truth of regulation is that the Telecos are given a free ride to use local property (aka rights-of-way) by federal law. There is some state-level regulation but the idea that the city of Lafayette regulates BellSouth in any real way is laughable. And any telco rep should know that. It's the PSC, not the village of Anacoco, that regulates BellSouth in Louisiana. (Insofar as BellSouth is regulated at all,)
Just for the record, the cabelcos aren't "regulated" by the cities either. Cablecos enter into contracts to use city property, the above mentioned rights of way, in exchange for money and services. | |
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| | | 1 Appeal it.
2 Have a revote.
3 Change the laws. | |
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 King PDon't blame me. I voted for Ron PaulPremium
join:2004-11-17
Franklin, TN
 ·Comcast
 ·Vonage
| boy this is sickening Damn the courts, build it anyway. What are they going to do, arrest the entire city for doing something that they LEGALLY can do?
Not to start a flame war, but I hope BellSouth burns for this...
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| DerchPremium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI | Re: boy this is sickening They will, at least I hope they will. And they can't start on the project, the courts could throw contempt's at the project planners. | |
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| |  ronpinImagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana | Re: boy this is sickening The appeals court went on to distinguish between a pledge and an assignment, then stated that the city ordinance fails to provide for a requirement of default before using residual revenues to repay the fiber bonds. That is prohibited, the court ruled.
Another violation of the Fair Competition Act occurs because the bond ordinance calls for five funds to handle money for the fiber project instead of a single fund as required by law, the appeal court ruled. Seems like simply outsourcing to somebodies 'bro-law would fix it eh? | |
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| | |  DrexBeer...The other white meat.Premium
join:2000-02-24
La Place, LA
kudos:1
·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: boy this is sickening said by ronpin:The appeals court went on to distinguish between a pledge and an assignment, then stated that the city ordinance fails to provide for a requirement of default before using residual revenues to repay the fiber bonds. That is prohibited, the court ruled.
Another violation of the Fair Competition Act occurs because the bond ordinance calls for five funds to handle money for the fiber project instead of a single fund as required by law, the appeal court ruled. Seems like simply outsourcing to somebodies 'bro-law would fix it eh? As long as that bro-in-law was a relative of a BS exec, then I'm sure it would be fine and dandy.
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| | | | Look at the Big Picture I wonder when SBC/ATT will try and buy BellSouth. Is BellSouth fighting this alone or do they have help? Something to think about. | |
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|  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by King P:Damn the courts, build it anyway. You don't have to damn the courts. You just need to impeach the judges and have them removed, use a recall election to get rid of them, or vote them out of office. I'm not sure what sort of relief the Louisiana constitution provides for this sort of situation.
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| | | said by King P:Not to start a flame war, but I hope BellSouth burns for this... Who cares about flame war? I hate that term moderators like to throw around to control what we say in forums. Sometimes things need to be said and said a lot. BS is decalring war on the people of Lafayette. The elected officials by the people of city should do what the people told them too, and that is build FTTP. DAMN, the courts and BS, as long as nobody is being harmed then the project should go forward.
In the words of Johnny Storm, "FLAME ON". (ok that was corny) | |
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| | They should The City should just argue it can do what it wants it in its own jurisdiction, thats what they'd do if Bell South were having the City take some houses to give away to Bell South for a new collections dept. | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 |  Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers
LUS' plans to use residual revenues from its other utilities divisions to repay the fiber bonds violates the cross-subsidization prohibition of the Local Government Fair Competition Act.
The appeals court, in Thursday's ruling, agreed with BellSouth, noting a clause in the state law that says the bonds "shall be secured and paid for solely from the revenues generated by the local government from providing the covered services." In effect the court is just making sure that the fiber project can pay its own way and not depend on income from other utilities to make up for losses.
Of course, Lafayette can change the bond ordinance to comply, but then they may have trouble finding a financial underwriter for the bonds. And that may mean they might not find buyers for the bonds if not cross subsidized.
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| | | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers Of course, Lafayette can change the bond ordinance to comply, but then they may have trouble finding a financial underwriter for the bonds. And that may mean they might not find buyers for the bonds if not cross subsidized.
Exactly.
And the voters democratically CHOOSE to the be cross-subsidized. The majority of individuals who voted, said yes.
BellSouth's continued attempts to subvert the muni-fiber project in the face of a city-wide vote are audacious. | |
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| | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
1 edit | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers said by broadbander:Exactly. And the voters democratically CHOOSE to the be cross-subsidized. The majority of individuals who voted, said yes. Guess what. The courts protect minorities(and thwart democratic voting results all the time. E.G. numerous Calif propositions). I guess that when courts do that to advance civil rights for some minorities(like illegal immigrants) it is OK. But if they do that to protect ratepayers on the losing side of a vote, it isn't OK. Well that sword cuts both ways.
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| | |  oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers That would be called legislating from the bench and it's a popular pastime of the modern judiciary.
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| | | | | You must mean how bonding for a muni project is so awful like in Glasgow, KY? Right...that is so awful for those rate payers...they pay the lowest prices in the nation for cable TV service. And I could name muni projects all day that have benefitted the rate payer.
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| | | | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepaye said by scrummie02:If that's the case than anyone can repeal any democratically initiated vote and any time and nothing would get done. That pretty much describes the way things are now. If things work in your case than Bush shouldn't be elected and it should be in appeals courts.... It was handled by the US Supreme Court - the ultimate appeals court. unless of course everything I learned in school and college is wrong. You said it, not me.;)
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| | | |  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 | said by scrummie02:Civil rights and ratepayers isn't exactly the same thing. The point is the majority won, go through with the project...that's what our supposed democracy is built on..unless of course everything I learned in school and college is wrong. That would be true democracy...but college education or not, we don't live in one. Checks, balances, bribery, and corruption are a part of US political life, nomatter how many civic classes you take.
My recommendation is to step out and get a big dose of modern-day reality when the opportunity next presents itself. It'll benefit you more than most political science & civic classes ever could.  | |
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| | | | |  scrummie02BentleyPremium
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
·Verizon FiOS
·Comcast
| Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepaye I have been out of college for a while...the point i was making is this is supposed to be a democracy (that's what our policiticians tell us....Representative Republic...Democracy..whatever you want to call it). People need to start holding politicians accountable for their actions and decisions. No one raises a stink enough to make a difference.
As a former Republican (now Independent), I am sick of the way our GOP has turned into a government enlarging, big spending over expanding pile of beaucracry that goes against the very party's principles. I am also sick of the Dems and their anti-Bush stance (that's all they have to stand on, no unified platforms). Someone needs to hold the politicians accountable for their actions, they are in effect blocking the citizens rights because they voted to have fiber, so it needs to be done. If the local or state politicians don't allow this measure to go through they are responsible for answering to their constituents for their failures to uphold the citizens wishes.
Unfortunately this type of behavior will persist until someone really revamps Campaign and lobbying finance or a third or fourth political party is given equal chance at candidacy... | |
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| | | | | I guess that when courts do that to advance civil rights for some minorities(like illegal immigrants) it is OK.
GolfnSun, I think you know some of my posting history and you know that's NOT something I'm okay with. 
So in this case, the sword should cut where it should legally cut. The legality of this matter has nothing to do with the "rights of the minority." That minority also have the right to not live in the town altogether if they so choose.
Two things are matters of contention in this particular case ...
1. the word "pledge"
2. the audaciousness of BellSouth in calling for a vote and than working to overturn the express results of that vote | |
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| | | | | | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers Number 2 is the big one I am having problems with. BS worked so hard to call for the vote in the first place. Then, because they didn't like the outcome, they are throwing around their corporate weight like the 300LB gorilla that they are, to prevent LUS from starting to buildout their broadband utility. It is disgusting. Unfortunately, it appears disgusting behavior is becoming par for the course for BS.
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| | | | BS wanted a vote - they got a vote. The citizens voted YES FOR FIBER. They didn't like the results. One of the the arguments against the muni broadband project in Lafayette had been to let the people vote...They threw up how many lawsuits until they found one that finally stuck?! DISGUSTING!!!
I think Durel and Company should continue to fight against BS and their bs. It is clear BS wants no competition and wants their monopoly to remain unthreatened. It is also clear they could care less about the will of the people....um, their customers. Otherwise they would upgrade their plant, give people fiber, and lower their prices. They are unwilling to do that as well.
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| | | | | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepaye WE NEED serious reform before this gets any worse.
If 20 people were bribed by 2 guys and you multiply that by how many more people are in the house and senate.
This corruption probe will reach wider then just these folks mentioned so far.
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| |  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH
1 edit | said by broadbander:Of course, Lafayette can change the bond ordinance to comply, but then they may have trouble finding a financial underwriter for the bonds. And that may mean they might not find buyers for the bonds if not cross subsidized.
Exactly. And the voters democratically CHOOSE to the be cross-subsidized. The majority of individuals who voted, said yes. BellSouth's continued attempts to subvert the muni-fiber project in the face of a city-wide vote are audacious. Just goes to show you vote all you want the big company's will do whatever they want regardless of anything.Im really thinking it's time for someone or something to kick these 500 pound gorilla's in the nuts.All of em.You have to be smoking Crack if you think your Government is in control there not there run by the Big Corporations now and are in there pocket.
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| oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | We need a loser pays system. Corporations like BS try to outspend their opponents with frivolous lawsuits until they find one that sticks. If they had to pay all court costs and opposing lawyer fees, PLUS penalties they may choose to avoid this tactic.
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| | LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers said by oliphant:We need a loser pays system. Corporations like BS try to outspend their opponents with frivolous lawsuits until they find one that sticks. If they had to pay all court costs and opposing lawyer fees, PLUS penalties they may choose to avoid this tactic. Actually a loser pays system favors big business and NOT the little guy. BS can afford to pay all costs if it loses. The little guy(who usually loses anyway) would not be able to risk bringing a case, if they knew they had to pick up the costs of BS as well.
Now a loser pays system would surely reduce the number of court cases, but big business would be the big winner under that system.
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| | | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
2 edits | Re: Appeals court just protecting utility ratepayers It benefits everyone except those who lose. When it comes to corporations, the penalty rulings handed down would simply be larger; large enough to discourage them from doing it again. | |
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| | | | First they try to outspend them during the referendum process (which itself is a huge joke because they have such deep pockets), now they will try and sue cities and towns "into submission" until the cities give up about serving their community with what they want.
Are we ready to let Telcos and Cable Cos dictate what we can and cannot have in our own community? Why would I ever want SBC/AT&T dictating to me what speeds I will have, what cost they will be, and when I will get them? If my community wants to provide for me, and it is voted on by my community, then what business is it of the corporate American THUG to dictate otherwise?
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|  sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Linklist:Not everyone in Lafayette voted to approve this deal. And not everyone voted for Bush, but he's president.
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | So change the ordinance.... It seems like this one is a no brainer.
Change the ordinance and issue the bonds at a higher rate.
Notice that the city can still back the bonds with residual incomes, they just have to add in a requirement of default before payment.
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| | | Re: So change the ordinance.... I MAY be wrong...but if you change the ordinance you may have to revote?
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| | marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | Re: So change the ordinance.... said by Octopussy2:I MAY be wrong...but if you change the ordinance you may have to revote? Changing the ordinance should require a vote of the city council, but not a popular vote.
I am not certain if changing the requirement for default that would be considered a separate bond issue. If it is considered a separate bond issue then there would need to be a new vote.
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| | | | | Re: So change the ordinance.... I can find this out and get back to you and everyone.
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| RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN | said by marigolds:It seems like this one is a no brainer. Change the ordinance and issue the bonds at a higher rate. Notice that the city can still back the bonds with residual incomes, they just have to add in a requirement of default before payment. Wow. 25 posts before the first one that actually addresses the issue at hand. Congratulations on thinking rationally.
RJ | |
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mmoon6
join:2005-12-03
Marietta, GA | Message to Bellsouth Quit paying lawyers. Pay the workers seeing the people face to face. Sell what the customer wants then there will be no need for these shenanigans. What are you thinking? Have you forgotten customer service includes selling them what they want to buy? | |
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 alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA |  Don't Fight Them, Join Them!
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2 edits | Play Fair, Or Be Played As much as I like Bellsouth's DSL (never have any problems), I'm really getting ticked off with them. I live in Lafayette, and we have yet to see the DSL 6.0 upgrade. Yet, when someone who is willing to give us better speeds than 3 mbit tries to act, they (Bellsouth) do their damnest to prevent it. I'd switch to cox if I knew they were reliable, but their services tend to go down alot more than Bellsouth's. Come'on Bellsouth, quite whining, wasting tax payers money, and give us better speeds that can compete with the services LUS is trying to provide us! | |
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| | | Re: Play Fair, Or Be Played Ok I wish somebody would NUKE BellSouth!!!!!!!!
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More upload please! | |
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| | | | Re: Play Fair, Or Be Played Where are you founding fathers of this Great Nation?
They are now turning in their graves watching the Constitution being trampled.
Chris Rock was right though: "We ain't got no problem cause, we are united cause we all got the same religion, it's called MONEY".
Amen Chris, one of my favorite comedians of all times. | |
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