 Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Verizon Sucks If they don't want Massachusetts, I'm sure a local upstart would gladly pay property taxes to the state they hold estate in. Massachusetts needs competition anyways, especially this end of the state. btw Verizon, ditch your call center in India before you lose more customers. 'nuff said. | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Verizon Sucks Where are the upstarts? | |
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 |  |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Verizon Sucks Lobbied out by Verizon. Which is why Verizon sucks, besides the outsourcing and pouting when they don't get a sweetheart deal. We do have a CLEC here called Richmond Networx. A bit more expensive but their tech support is head and shoulders above Verizon and TWC. | |
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 |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Verizon Sucks If you have a CLEC, then the upstarts don't appear to be "lobbied out by Verizon". Does the Massachusetts DTC actively deny applications of new companies desiring to provide telecommunications services in MA? Because according to the DTC's website, there are 6 ILECs and 100+ CLECs registered in the state. | |
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 |  |  |  |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Verizon Sucks It's called franchising. Something long lobbied for by these companies. Problem is a CLEC still needs to use Verizon's lines back to their CO. Verizon still gets to pinch them for what they want, which is why their price is so high. Sound like Teksavvy and Bell anyone? Aside of the throttling, that is. A common infrastructure is necessary for competition to flourish, but do you really think the lobbyists are going to let that5 happen? A such thing as a muni fiber upstart would also violate the unfortunate franchise laws that Vz and the other big guys lobbied for and got. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Verizon Sucks What do they franchise authorities say? Can ILECs or other providers not lay their own infrastructure? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: Verizon Sucks said by openbox9 :What do they franchise authorities say? Can ILECs or other providers not lay their own infrastructure? ILECs don't have franchise agreements, they are grandfathered in forever. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: Verizon Sucks Sorry, meant CLEC, not ILEC. | |
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 |  cornelius785
join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA | i bet $10 that if verizon deployed FIOS in your town (assuming your location is correct), you'd change your stance (or wouldn't take this stance if you already had it). | |
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 |  |  Selenia
join:2006-09-22 Pittsfield, MA
·Verizon Online DSL
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Verizon Sucks said by cornelius785 :i bet $10 that if verizon deployed FIOS in your town (assuming your location is correct), you'd change your stance (or wouldn't take this stance if you already had it). My Roadrunner standard is more than fast and stable enough these days. TWC has made awesome strides in that department. Their tech support still sucks, but they have made strides there too. The issue is not whether I think FIOS sucks or Roadrunner sucks. It's a matter of whether the company sucks for preventing competition. Countries with blueprints built into their laws to prevent this(like Sweden) see far better broadband speeds than FIOS users even. I would be commending Verizon if they weren't using FIOS as a pawn here in my home state and playing dirty with lawmakers to prevent competition and thus true innovation. There should be enough ethics in politicians and strong enough antitrust laws to prevent this kind of abuse, but alas, it's the 21st century in corporate-run America. | |
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  jack b Gone Fishing Premium,MVM join:2000-09-08 Cape Cod clubs:
·Comcast
| fios is not big Although I gotta admit some of the cable-guy commercials are cute, stop with the incessant 'this is fios, this is big" commercials already! Spend the money on installing the hardware, pound everyone with the commercials after we can get the service! -- ~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~ ~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~ | |
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 |   NY Tel Premium join:2004-04-09 Smithtown, NY
·VOIPo
| Re: fios is not big said by jack b :Although I gotta admit some of the cable-guy commercials are cute, stop with the incessant 'this is fios, this is big" commercials already! Spend the money on installing the hardware, pound everyone with the commercials after we can get the service! I read last week that they are dumping their present media campaign because it was unsuccessful (I may be reading into it). Perhaps that means that Fios Guy and FatBoy Matt (That's the professional name that the Cable guy uses in real life) are on the way out and a new campaign will follow? | |
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 |   Van Premium join:2009-07-08 Washington, DC | Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball With the amount of money they 'donate' and/or lobby with, I doubt you will see any sort of fight from major cities/states | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | And then you would really see how quickly the incumbents would pull out of states and sell off their markets. | |
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 |  |  |   TKJunkMail Enjoy the sun Premium join:2002-03-03 Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball said by morbo :said by openbox9 :And then you would really see how quickly the incumbents would pull out of states and sell off their markets. I can easily see competitors running to fill that void or even a muni-system springing up. I can't imagine Verizon would want that... You must be wearing rose colored glasses then. No one is rushing in to provide service in these areas. Hence why Fairpoint is going bankrupt in New England. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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 |  |  |  |   karlmarx
join:2006-09-18 iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball Umm, no Fairpoint is going bankrupt because the PAID TOO MUCH. See my other post for the proper solution. If fairpoint took over the network for NO COST, guess what, they wouldn't be going bankrupt. So, the solution is quite obvious. Make the VALUE of the assets to be LESS than ZERO, then Verizon WON'T be able to sell it, won't be able to pay the taxes, and will lose all their assets when the state takes over for non-payment of taxes. Guess who wins in that scenario? Oh, wait, EVERYONE except the fat cat executives and shareholders and bondholders. Oh noooes! Shareholders loosing money? Cry me a river...not! -- The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Nynex
@verizon.net | Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball And what about the employees at Verizon working and paying state taxes | |
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 |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| The lesser of two evils. If VZ has to chose between establishing a precedent of getting bent over by state pols or selling off service in a state that they may already be interested in dropping, I'd venture to guess that VZ will choose the sell off option. Do viable competitors exist that are willing/able to rush in and buy up VZ's assets in MA that will actually benefit the commonwealth? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball said by morbo :I can envision a muni-broadband system that will get other states thinking about doing the same. All it takes is one well-run muni system (statewide) to start the avalanche. And the resources necessary to purchase VZ's assets....even if VZ is willing to sell at a discount to cut ties, that could prove to be expensive. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball It'll be interesting to see if VZ's appeal results in an overturn of the ruling or not. You and I both know that VZ won't allow the state to place a lien against their assets for failure to pay taxes, so best case, the ruling is overturned. Worst case, the ruling is upheld and VZ customers in MA begin paying even more for their monthly bills. Selling assets lies somewhere in the middle, IMO. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| said by morbo :when verizon refuses to pay the new pole tax, the state assumes ownership. Will never happen. The question is not of a "loss", Verizon has plenty of money.
»finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=VZ&annual 6 billion in dividends go out each year, it will pay the pole tax in the end
the bigger problem is, the profitability/margin on the territory. Why have an area with a 10% (sample numbers) profit margin dragging down your average profit margin from 30% to 20%? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  bigjimc
join:2003-04-21 Middleboro, MA | Braintree Electric and Light Department (BELD). They sell TV and all.
www.BELD.net
They are not the norm and they are using Fiber and Coax. But it is a town run department. | |
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 |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball How so? | |
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 |  |   N3OGH Bear patrol must be working like a charm Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I wish these cities and states would play hardball That mush mouth Menino is a jackass.
The guy's practically been Mayor for life. He's been in there for what, 16 years now?
Anyone holding the same office that long has got to have skeletons in their administration. -- Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by morbo :Why is it that states and cities cave under any type of pressure from telco? If Verizon wants a fight, they should give them a fight. Start with a simple threat for an additional corporate tax for operating within the state A tax they will just pass onto the customers.
Eventually, the final threat will be the state taking over their infrastructure. Not legal | |
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 |   cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08 Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·Verizon Wireless B..
·AT&T DSL Service
| Here's a fix:
Breakup the Bell system again. AT&T (SBC) should have never been allowed to takeover everything. VZ shouldn't either since they are dumping areas.
Simple solution: either deploy or we take away your LD and make you sell your lines wholesale to anyone.
Eliminate the USF criminal fund.
Personally, I think America should spend $50 billion and wire the whole country with fiber and RENT the lines to anyone. Here's why:
More telecommuting (less gas used--the planet, morons!) Education benefits (online college could be cheap) Creates jobs Productivity would go through the roof
The savings in telecommuting alone would pay for the $50 billion over and over and over. Even if it is $100 billion. Production would increase. Services could be provided remotely. Only idiots have huge conferences. Obama uses YouTube to talk to his converts.
America is at a dearth of reason since our education system sucks, our infrastructure is falling apart, lack of competition, ridiculous and Unconstitutional taxes (called fees), and a Congress and President who serves themselves not the People.
You know Ron Paul has a 90% approval rating in Texas. He's never voted for any tax increase, he's against nation building (Afganistan is stupid--Russia couldn't conquer it for 14 years), hates big government, etc. Homeland Security even Bush didn't want. It ruined FEMA. I bet we could fire 20% of Federal employees and never miss them.
You know why Africa is poor? High taxes. 50-60% tax rates. We should eliminate their debt if they agree to foster capitalism. Drug dealers get that concept. Why can't Obama and Congess?
The most productive enterprise in America is drug dealing. Why? No regulations. No taxes. It is illegal but their distribution method beats Fedex. | |
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 old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03 Bedford, MA | they forgot.. to pay their regular "donations" to the state legislature. | |
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  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | So?
What is Massachusetts waiting for? Pass the bills that Verizon wants and then it can get FIOS.
Duh. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 |  old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03 Bedford, MA | Re: So? That doesn't mean people would get FIOS. The telcos are very well known for getting tax exemptions to do something then never doing what they promised.
Verizon says the sweetheart deals would cut TV costs, but that's bull. | |
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 |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: So? said by old_wiz_60 :That doesn't mean people would get FIOS. The telcos are very well known for getting tax exemptions to do something then never doing what they promised. True, but not doing it ensures they won't get FIOS. -- Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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 caseywor
join:2004-04-19 Mobile, AL
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southeast
| Verizon doesn't owe Boston or Massachussets anything Overall, if neither Massachusetts nor Boston wants to offer Verizon a deal to motivate them to offer FiOS, Verizon doesn't owe them the service. If there has been no franchise agreement, why should Verizon break their necks to move into their market with FiOS. Verizon doesn't have any kind of moral obligation to offer service to anyone in an area as hostile toward business as Massachusetts. People want to scream "they aren't doing it because they didn't get a sweetheart deal." That is exactly right. Why should they have to. Let Taxachussets, ooops I mean Massachusetts, make it worth it for Verizon to come in. After all, a business should be in business to make money. Not because it feels good to hurt their own bottom line to offer the service. I also love the comment in this thread about the threat to take over the infrastructure. That is a great way to make CLECs want to come into your state. /sarc | |
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 |   birdfeedr Premium,MVM join:2001-08-11 Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Verizon doesn't owe Boston or Massachussets anything said by caseywor :I also love the comment in this thread about the threat to take over the infrastructure. That is a great way to make CLECs want to come into your state. /sarc CLEC with its own infrastructure? CLECs piggyback on someone else's last mile, at least that's what I thought was most common. | |
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 |  |  TheGhost Premium join:2003-01-03 Lake Forest, IL clubs: | Re: Verizon doesn't owe Boston or Massachussets anything Could Boston offer a franchise agreement to a CLEC and tell Verizon to take a hike?
I know Verizon would then get all lawyered up, but could it be done still? | |
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 |  |  caseywor
join:2004-04-19 Mobile, AL
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southeast
| That is the most common indeed. However, even if they piggyback, they still have an investment. They still have to have some infrastructure in place to provide service to an area for last mile. That doesn't mean they have plant in place all over town, but they still have to invest money in an area where they are doing business, even if it is on someone else network. | |
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 |  |  caseywor
join:2004-04-19 Mobile, AL | I should say that is a great way to make an ILEC come in, that is the most accurate statement. The original poster who's posting I was alluding to did mistake ILEC for CLEC, and I ran with it. None the less, a CLEC does have to have it as well. | |
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 |  |
  tpm25
@ivanet.net
| competition One issue that was brought up was competition. In areas of Boston and its suburbs where FiOs is not deployed, there are already 2 cable providers, RCN and Comcast. Adding another triple-play provider to the already saturated market would make recouping build-out costs difficult. RCN spent heavily in this area and is paying the price. | |
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 |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: competition said by tpm25 :
One issue that was brought up was competition. In areas of Boston and its suburbs where FiOs is not deployed, there are already 2 cable providers, RCN and Comcast. Adding another triple-play provider to the already saturated market would make recouping build-out costs difficult. RCN spent heavily in this area and is paying the price. NYC also has RCN in alot of contracted MDUs, and a 1/8th of the city has a general rollout. | |
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  karlmarx
join:2006-09-18 iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Jack the 'Pole Tax' through the roof If the state of Mass really wants to screw verizon, the solution is quite simple. Make the 'Pole Tax' $1000.00 per year, per pole. That will effectively make the VALUE of all the assets Verizon has in MASS worthless, and of course, Verizon WON'T pay the tax, so the state can SEIZE all the assets when they don't. Guess what, Verizon won't be able to SELL anything either, because no-one would touch it.
THAT's the solution for ALL the megacorp ISP's. TAX Comcast, TAX Verizon, TAX em ALL out of existence, then take over the assets, and run the network as part of a muni effort. If ALL the states did that, the government could get all their assets for FREE, and guess what, if you GOT all those assets for FREE, even the government could run them with much better speeds/lower prices than any bloods sucking fat cat megacorp slimball can.
I've figured it out! the best way to bring DEMOCRACY back into the US. Take over all the telco assets, and then let private companies LEASE those assets to sell services. -- The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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 |  See 6 replies to this post |
|
 tmc8080
join:2004-04-24 Floral Park, NY
| depends on how bad you want it, MA There is no guarantee that a company will fulfill the needs of consumers. Big cities in MA should probably be pushing along a municipal buildout referendum and I'd start with Boston. Apparently millions of potential subscribers are not worth spending billions on upgrading services beyond copper. Verizon sold off assets in the state to fairpoint with further threats and extortion rhetoric. If Boston can make a dent in the Mafia criminal activities of Boston, certainly a corporation such as Verizon should be child's play. Big corporations have a stranglehold on the northeast.. some goverment owned assets are highly recommended as to not have price hikes tied to the whims of the stock-market and greedy executives. A nice high-speed fiber direct link between MA and MN would be a slap in the face of the big 3... Verizon, AT&T and Comcast!
Old sayings are ripe for the taking and.. if you want it... you have to do it yourself, and once you do.. SCREW VERIZON.. I'd throw them out on their ass-- I wouldn't even let them keep their current assets.. I'd raise utility access fees so that they leave the state entirely (drop dead rates). Its high time to get tough with greedy & selfish corporations: be it telco/cableco, banks, oil companies, etc.
The handwriting is on the wall.. Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon are going to stop building/deploying new unserved markets for the next several years, so if you are in an unserved/underserved market.. you are S C R E W E D ! ! ! (dont't expect the federal gov't to come to your rescue either, because they won't) | |
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 PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13 Baltimore, MD | Lay your own fiber, bub. If the state laid their own fiber and started providing service as has been seen around the country, I bet you Verizon might start building out... while of course keeping the state tied up in litigation. | |
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 michael3311
join:2008-04-15
| Verizon Price Verizon is passing too many homes without connections to make money. The only way to connect to these homes is to lower prices. They have to be competitive to make money. Thier TV service is better but Comcast offers faster internet speeds for less money. You have to get your foot in the door first. | |
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  mm888
@qwest.net | Verizon I cannot stand Verizon for charging $99 for unlimited voice. So you are telling me voice is 3x times more expensive than data? All the infractrucure is already in place for the voice. What a buch of bull. What a ripoff. | |
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  cableties Premium join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS
| Boston FiOS party! Dear Bostonians,
Shalt thou dumpest Verizon into the Bawstun Hawbaw?
I would. Everyone, drop them. Switch to other carriers. Send no message. No text. No calls. Just switch. Maybe their accounts will see the loss and escalate...(or move to Jersey...)  -- Splat | |
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 EPS
join:2008-02-13 Hingham, MA
| Verizon probably isn't lying The automatic assumption is that Verizon is "punishing" Boston- of course, there's no way what is practically America's oldest city, with all the ancient underground infrastructure of a place like New York City, without the super-high density to justify investment could actually be a bad place to sink money, clearly it's just a political move... | |
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 jfpatrick
join:2002-03-15 Leominster, MA | Just another tax... Supposedly by taxing all Verizon's assets in the City of Boston, the City can "reap" around $3 million in property taxes per year. I've heard other cash strapped communities are considering the same approach. | |
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  Jovi
join:2000-02-24 Mount Joy, PA | Hey Verizon, Pennsylvania is calling. They want their 4 billion dollars back. -- "Some people have no respect for logic."  | |
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  DBrules
@comcast.net
| Verizon will dump Boston Get it straight. Verizon will sell off all of MA to get rid of the decrepit copper plant - just like they did with the junk they sold to Fairpoint for over $2 billion and like they are trying to do now to Frontier for over $8 billion. Frontier is asking its employees to give up vacation and days off so they can afford this, they will go the same way as Fairpoint.
Not only is Verizon getting rid of the copper headaches, they are ridding themselves of union nightmares. They will make over $10 Billion on these two transactions, if my memory serves me correct, they only paid $9.6 Billion for nationwide 700 MHz licenses. Come 2013, they are going to go back and canabalize those customers by providing superior VOIP over LTE at a much lower cost than either of these two not-so-bright competitors can offer over union-maintained copper plant.
LTE over 700 MHz will kill the competition. | |
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 |   flybywire
@optonline.net
| Re: Verizon will dump Boston said by DBrules :
Get it straight. Verizon will sell off all of MA to get rid of the decrepit copper plant - just like they did with the junk they sold to Fairpoint for over $2 billion and like they are trying to do now to Frontier for over $8 billion. Frontier is asking its employees to give up vacation and days off so they can afford this, they will go the same way as Fairpoint.
Not only is Verizon getting rid of the copper headaches, they are ridding themselves of union nightmares. They will make over $10 Billion on these two transactions, if my memory serves me correct, they only paid $9.6 Billion for nationwide 700 MHz licenses. Come 2013, they are going to go back and canabalize those customers by providing superior VOIP over LTE at a much lower cost than either of these two not-so-bright competitors can offer over union-maintained copper plant.
LTE over 700 MHz will kill the competition. You can not assume that wireless will kill wireline, particularly a Fiber build. LTE is about voice, but more importantly it's about data.. and FTTP will be much more robust than the best LTE deployments. As long as the 'unlimited' cellular voice plans keep getting cheaper (aka straight-talk $45 unlimited everything & new smart phones in 2010) it will remain competitive with voip. Once Verizon is out of the wireline business in Boston, good riddance... the bet is wireless will become a more important business that wireline.. fine make that bet-- however it will take more than a decade to see how it pans out as the technology is not quite there yet (capacity). MA can also create incentives for Sprint to come in and burn Verizon in the state as well, so one can envision all kinds of scenarios were consumers win and Verizon loses. | |
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