  ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | My neighbors started a WISP It's not rocket science. | |
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 |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: My neighbors started a WISP It also goes to show you that if people aren't willing to invest their own time, resources and energy into something that someone else isn't going to provide, then they will remain with nothing.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | TheGhostPremium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by pnh102:It also goes to show you that if people aren't willing to invest their own time, resources and energy into something that someone else isn't going to provide, then they will remain with nothing. The issue is, if they try to implement themselves, they have to worry about an industry response like Comcast and BellSouth did in Lafayette, or what at&t and Comcast did here in Illinois, or what Qwest did/is doing in Utopia land. The ILECs and cable companies don't want to provide service as it is not "profitable", but they also don't want the municipalities to do it themselves either. | |
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| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by TheGhost:The issue is, if they try to implement themselves, they have to worry about an industry response like Comcast and BellSouth did in Lafayette, or what at&t and Comcast did here in Illinois, or what Qwest did/is doing in Utopia land. You're confusing the government doing it with a private effort undertaken by private citizens using private funds. We have not seen incumbents try to stop these efforts, and as the ColorBASIC  pointed out, it was not that difficult to set up a WISP.
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| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by pnh102:You're confusing the government doing it with a private effort undertaken by private citizens using private funds. We have not seen incumbents try to stop these efforts, and as the ColorBASIC pointed out, it was not that difficult to set up a WISP. That's most definitely NOT true. What about that neighborhood in Colorado; Qwest told them broadband ain't never gonna happen; they tried to start their own service which they eventually succeeded in doing, but Qwest did everything possible to make it difficult for them to do so. I've heard the same thing from small CLEC's attempting to provide service in New England - Verizon does everything they can to slow the process down and make it difficult.
As for "it's not that difficult to set up a WISP", they may be true in some parts of the country (i.e., flat ones), but setting one up with low-power unlicensed devices in hilly/forested areas gets very expensive very fast.
I can see not requiring an SP to provide unprofitable service, unless they are subsidized. But that's not what's happening. Verizon, for example, could provide service in alot of areas around here, and have the remote terminals in place, but choose not to enable them. No cable competition, and there are already people paying >$1000/month for T-1's in these areas. If they offered DSL, these T1 customers would switch. And $1000/month is better for Verizon than $19.99/month.
I wish they'd market a "rural DSL" or something like that, at $50-$100 or whatever. They'd still get alot of takers. | |
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| | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by PDXPLT:What about that neighborhood in Colorado; ... they tried to start their own service which they eventually succeeded in doing, but Qwest did everything possible to make it difficult for them to do so. And Qwest failed. The service is still running.
said by PDXPLT:I wish they'd market a "rural DSL" or something like that, at $50-$100 or whatever. They'd still get alot of takers. Of course, but if it costs more than what you quote to provide it, no one is going to offer it.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: My neighbors started a WISP and so it's a tad bit more complicated than "just do it"? having a LEC give you difficulties is...simple?
like i said, this is more complicated than the banal advice you dispense here. | |
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| | | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by satellite68:like i said, this is more complicated than the banal advice you dispense here. Well apparently the people who started the WISP in the original post have gotten past that "complexity."
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| | | | |  wilbilt Pronto ResurrectedPremium
join:2004-01-11
Oroville, CA | said by PDXPLT:I wish they'd market a "rural DSL" or something like that, at $50-$100 or whatever. They'd still get alot of takers. They do. It's called ISDN. I had it for a few years, 128/128 for $135/mo.
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We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us. | |
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| | | | said by pnh102:It also goes to show you that if people aren't willing to invest their own time, resources and energy into something that someone else isn't going to provide, then they will remain with nothing. In that case, if the electric company refused to "deploy" in your area, would you start your own? How about a Ford dealership? Maybe a whole chain of Starbucks? McDonald's?
"just do it" is simplistic, jingoistic advice on this issue. I don't see you running your own cruise ship line, either-perhaps you just don't have the "time, resources and energy" to do so. | |
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| | | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Re: My neighbors started a WISP Talk about simplistic nonsense. No one in their right mind would compare starting a small wireless ISP to buying a Starbucks, Ford Dealer or McDonald's or even better a cruise line.
That's just stupid.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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| | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | said by satellite68:said by pnh102:It also goes to show you that if people aren't willing to invest their own time, resources and energy into something that someone else isn't going to provide, then they will remain with nothing. In that case, if the electric company refused to "deploy" in your area, would you start your own? How about a Ford dealership? Maybe a whole chain of Starbucks? McDonald's? "just do it" is simplistic, jingoistic advice on this issue. I don't see you running your own cruise ship line, either-perhaps you just don't have the "time, resources and energy" to do so. the electric company thing happened for real, its why the Government implemented the Rural Electrification Act. part of which is why things like Hoover Dam and the TVA exist.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | | TheGhostPremium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by Kearnstd:the electric company thing happened for real, its why the Government implemented the Rural Electrification Act. part of which is why things like Hoover Dam and the TVA exist. Don't go bringing in historical examples of successes, some people just don't want to hear it. | |
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| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by satellite68:"just do it" is simplistic, jingoistic advice on this issue. And correct as well.
If you wait for someone else to do something for you, especially if it comes at a loss to them, you're going to be waiting a very very long time.
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| | |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by satellite68:In that case, if the electric company refused to "deploy" in your area, would you start your own? Rural farmers have supplied their own electricity for decades. It is called a generator. So, yes providing your own electricity makes sense.
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| | | Oh, my god having an entrepreneur supply broadband. No, we will have nothing to do with it. We just sit here and wait to Government to force Verizon to gimme Broadband. (Tongue firmly pressed in cheek) | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by Scatcatpdx:Oh, my god having an entrepreneur supply broadband. No, we will have nothing to do with it. We just sit here and wait to Government to force Verizon to gimme Broadband. (Tongue firmly pressed in cheek) Ah, what the British call the "I'm alright, Jack" attitude. Translation - I got mine, so screw you. 
Any private company using public resources to generate revenue, as Verizon does when it uses public raight-of-way, can be therefore required by the public to meet certain requirements, as far as I'm concerned. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | but you can bet if these towns wanted to run muni fiber that Verizon and Comcast would go crying to big daddy government that it needs to be stopped because it will impede on their services that they arent offering or planning to offer.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| |  Mactronel Camino RealPremium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv | Re: My neighbors started a WISP said by Kearnstd:but you can bet if these towns wanted to run muni fiber that Verizon and Comcast would go crying to big daddy government that it needs to be stopped because it will impede on their services that they arent offering or planning to offer. Right, that would be their first approach. It's cheaper.
If that doesn't work out so well, then VZ & Comcast will jump in with both feet and kill the Muni system as they did in Lompoc, Ca. Will this grassroots system stimulate VZ and/or Comcast to come in ? Probably not. 
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. | |
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| | ColorBASIC8-bit FunPremium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | said by Kearnstd:but you can bet if these towns wanted to run muni fiber that Verizon and Comcast would go crying to big daddy government that it needs to be stopped because it will impede on their services that they arent offering or planning to offer. No doubt.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire | |
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|  PolarBear03The bear formerly known as aaron8301Premium
join:2005-01-03 | My internet comes from just that; one man (that's right, I said one single solitary male homosapien) started a WISP in three different small towns around here. He struck a deal with the P.U.D. to use their fat fiber pipe that was basically unused anyway, and erected a bunch of small towers. He now supplies internet to 95% of broadband-connected people around here. Even right in town where people can get Qwest/MSN DSL, most folks use the WISP as they would rather do business with a local guy than a large corporation in Colorado.
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A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequilla. -- Mitch Ratcliffe | |
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|  DoctorDoomTroll hunterPremium
join:2006-09-19
Becket, MA | quote:
My neighbors started a WISP
It's not rocket science.
Nope, it ain't, but there's a wee matter that simply making suggestions does not address. Once the WISP is in place, then there comes the inconvenience of needing a broadband connection to distribute via the WISP.
I live in Western MA in an unserved town (read: satellite or 28.8Kb/s dialup). There is no broadband service and no reasonable way to get it. AFAIK, the Verizon CO has no broadband access, ergo a T1 line is not an option.
Any other suggestions? | |
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| | | | Re: My neighbors started a WISP thank you! | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Muni Fiber and if Verizon says no, town tells the judge to go Fsck himself if the town votes yes to fiber then that vote is more important.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| It ain't just rural hell, I live in the DC-Maryland metro area and I can only get cable - no DSL, no FIOS. I have never been able to get DSL from bell atlantic/verizon and expect that I never will be able to get DSL - verizon just isn't interested in serving my high income area. I thought I would be getting FIOS soon, but now I am starting to doubt that.
It ain't just rural areas that have no broadband or no competition for broadband. | |
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| kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL | Re: It ain't just rural Ditto here in my suburban Chicago town. AT&T here can't make a business case for bringing DSL here anymore due to Comcast literally owning the market- something over 70% of households use them for internet. The village had been promised from (now) AT&T for years that DSL would be brought here, but recently have dropped deployment plans completely. Giving Comcast plenty of time to establish a deathgrip.
We are lucky to be a leading market for the rollout of Sprint's WiMax (2008). And the latest word from AT&T is they might reconsider deployment plans here Sprint manages to do well. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | wow thats sad you think AT&T would be pushing for a chance to try and steal comcast customers with Uverse.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | I live in Palo Alto, less than 1.6 miles from 367 Addison Avenue, where Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard launched Silicon Valley in a garage. I live 12,189 measured feet from my CO. I currently have 300 kbs down via Covad/Earthlink. AT&T now owns the copper; they acquired it from PacTel via SBC's takeover. AT&T say that they cannot qualify me for DSL at all. When pressed, they reply that they are only obliged by the state utilities commission to provide voice service. They cite the possibility that bridge taps may degrade the quality of the line, as may the extra line in the catenary loops and/or extra wiring in the CO itself. This is the same provider that spent big bucks convincing the state legislature that they should be given permission to provide cable TV and movies on demand via this same outside plant! They make noises about fiber to the neighborhood, or repeater/booster devices in a neighborhood distribution box but they spend their money on trying to buy politicians and paying exorbitant executive salaries. Go figure!
baumgrenze | |
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| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: It ain't just rural said by baumgrenze:I live in Palo Alto, less than 1.6 miles from 367 Addison Avenue, where Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard launched Silicon Valley in a garage. I live 12,189 measured feet from my CO. I currently have 300 kbs down via Covad/Earthlink. AT&T now owns the copper; they acquired it from PacTel via SBC's takeover. AT&T say that they cannot qualify me for DSL at all. When pressed, they reply that they are only obliged by the state utilities commission to provide voice service. They cite the possibility that bridge taps may degrade the quality of the line, as may the extra line in the catenary loops and/or extra wiring in the CO itself. This is the same provider that spent big bucks convincing the state legislature that they should be given permission to provide cable TV and movies on demand via this same outside plant! They make noises about fiber to the neighborhood, or repeater/booster devices in a neighborhood distribution box but they spend their money on trying to buy politicians and paying exorbitant executive salaries. Go figure! baumgrenze in Silicon Valley one should have 100mbit symetrical for 20 bucks a month imo. tech R&D of pretty much every major computer invention in the world and it doesnt even have full DSL.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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|  JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | said by nasadude:... I thought I would be getting FIOS soon, but now I am starting to doubt that.... I was just checking out the packet for the MCMD council's quarterly revew of Comcast/RCN/Verizon - I thought there might be an update on "the Rockville situation" from Verizon, but I didn't see anything about it. I did see a couple more Comcast fines, but those seem to be issued pretty regularly now:
»www.montgomerycountymd.gov/conte···fp02.pdf | |
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| | Mobile Broadband Sprint has mobile broadband/EVDO in Shutesbury and Leverett.
Mobile broadband is the way to go if 1-2Mbps is good enough for you. When WiMAX comes, wired broadband will be so last century, except for those who want high bandwidth.
I dumped my cable modem earlier this year for EVDO. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | untapped military fiber There is a vast array of untapped military fiber going into new england.. now if some towns could get together and negotiate for reselling some service that would strongly encourage backbone providers to develop new pipes in New England.. | |
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| | | Re: untapped military fiber Map or specific evidence? I'm sure there is some there, but if you have more info that would be useful to link / list out. | |
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| kherrPremium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL | Doesn't the military have a physically separate network for SECURITY ?? | |
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 dslwanterIt's comingPremium
join:2002-12-16
Niles, OH | Same thing with AT&T U-Verse is launching and I know of many who can only get marginal DSL like myself or even worse no DSL at all. | |
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HooperPremium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA | Who Cares How is this even news? Some two-bit masshole town can't get broadband. I guess it doesn't make sense to write about how 80% of the STATE of Iowa is a broadband black hole. | |
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|  John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | Re: Who Cares said by Hooper:How is this even news? Some two-bit masshole town can't get broadband. I guess it doesn't make sense to write about how 80% of the STATE of Iowa is a broadband black hole. Really? Here is a wireless provide map...
»www.onelasvegas.com/wireless/IA.html
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A is A | |
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| | HooperPremium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA | Re: Who Cares Thanks for proving my point. | |
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| | this is all about money enough said, you'll get it as soon they think enough money will be made at that place, that's there mission and purpose | |
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| | Black holes everywhere! I'm sick and tired of the "One horse town" argument. I live in the suburbs of Los Angeles and I can't get DSL either. Unless the government is willing to regulate,you won't get it!
Hey Verizon,Look at my black HOLE! err.... | |
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| | Regulation isn't really an answer either. First of all regulation always sets up a minimum standard which iks quite often far to low, since it takes way to long to negotiate. I rarely ever demands consistent improvement.
That said FIOS, Comcast, Charter Cable, etc should be available to any home that asks for it. Simple. End of Story. I live in Charlton and count myself lucky to have anything, I don't particularly like Charter Internet (slow speed, Charter to far to slow to upgrade the speeds), but at least I have it. I'd love to get FIOS, but as a realist I know that VZ is not going to get anywhere near my house for years if ever. | |
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