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story category Broadband Growth Speeds Back Up
Hey recession, you ain't so tough...
(old news - 08:53AM Thursday May 14 2009)
tags: business · stats
After a bumpy ride last year, the latest data from Leichtman Research shows that the twenty largest cable and phone companies in the U.S. -- who comprise about 94% of the total market -- acquired over 1.6 million net additional broadband customers in the first quarter of this year. That's 600,000 more than the fourth quarter of last year. While some estimates pegged telco gains at 55% of the market in Q1, Leichtman says the top cable companies added 52% of total subscribers last quarter. Still, AT&T topped all carriers with 359,000 new customers, while Comcast added 329,000, Verizon added 252,000, and Time Warner Cable added 225,000.

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  5. The "Death Of P2P" Is Relative, Possibly Wrong
  6. Sandvine: P2P Now Just 20% Of Internet Use
  7. JD Power's Latest ISP Ratings
  8. U-Verse Invasion Of BellSouth Territory Continues
Forums » Broadband Growth Speeds Back Up
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pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA
·DSL EXTREME

During recession people spend more time online

Not only do people have more freetime, but they also tend to change habits from cable to more or less long term entertainment via their pc's. Although that's just me Good to see the internet is still puffing along as usual.
--
My Anime Site - AnimeCrazy.net
Chaldo

join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI

Re: During recession people spend more time online

I guess you can look at it that way lol.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA

Re: During recession people spend more time online

Exactly lol, jobless, bored, and can't find a job? Go online and try to find one... and watch youtube videos while waiting.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Re: During recession people spend more time online

said by pspcrazy See Profile :

Exactly lol, jobless, bored, and can't find a job? Go online and try to find one... and watch youtube videos while waiting.
Yeah, "youtube videos"... LOL!
Got Porn?
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Broadband is a Utility

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility. There will always be people who don't require it -- however, just like you don't require power, (the Amish do just fine without it) it is absolutely a requirement for the vast majority of the population.
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by Matt See Profile :

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility. There will always be people who don't require it -- however, just like you don't require power, (the Amish do just fine without it) it is absolutely a requirement for the vast majority of the population.
I agree with ya.. Though the countdown before that guy that's always angry about broadband not being a utility shows up and pulls out his faith based facts declaring otherwise..

WE need net neutrality and reasonable caps and more than one/two providers in our areas.. Satellite doesn't work for most needs, and the caps are intolerable for the freeaking high price.. That would be like having a hybrid car, yet opting in for someone to reverse engineer it to be a gas guzzeler and be proud of it..

Remove your PAMPERS PEOPLE.. Broadband needs massive wide deployment without the pretend bandwidth concern restrictions like att is doing with the Iphone.. Yet they are working on an application that is similiar to the app they blocked.. Only difference is, they get to sell the services.... ATT needs to be ordered to be a dumb pipe, and stay that way if they are going to try these gay tactics to generate profit..

After 8 years of "terrorist, and WMD's" as an excuse for gas prices, I and many others are getting fed up..
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Re: Broadband is a Utility

Net neutrality is a must. 1TB caps like in Japan(or no cap at all, unless they give me REAL data that show we NEED caps I will always be against them. If we get a real broadband package from DC I hope they have a no caps clause, if we pay for them they should not get to skrew us) More than 2 providers in one area=win one cable one FTTH one wireless. And thats all I can think of for now.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by me1212 See Profile :

one cable one FTTH one wireless. And thats all I can think of for now.
you keep looking for ftth to be the solution to all of the problems. go ahead, ask an incumbent how willing they are to run fiber to rural locations in iowa, missouri, nebraska, kansas, etc. they won't be.
we have to come to a realization the ftth is probably not going to happen outside of areas that have a high roi. even in the phoenix metro area (population estimated around 4.3 million as of 2008 link here) which is the 12th largest metro area in the states, i doubt i will ever see ftth within the next ten years.
maybe after a few years and the cost for the actual buildout (fiber, onts, splicing, trenching) has dropped to the point where the roi for deployment is a matter of a year or so, will everyone see it. otherwise, you will be hoping for a long time...

q.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by tubbynet See Profile :

said by me1212 See Profile :

one cable one FTTH one wireless. And thats all I can think of for now.
you keep looking for ftth to be the solution to all of the problems. go ahead, ask an incumbent how willing they are to run fiber to rural locations in iowa, missouri, nebraska, kansas, etc. they won't be.
we have to come to a realization the ftth is probably not going to happen outside of areas that have a high roi. even in the phoenix metro area (population estimated around 4.3 million as of 2008 link here) which is the 12th largest metro area in the states, i doubt i will ever see ftth within the next ten years.
maybe after a few years and the cost for the actual buildout (fiber, onts, splicing, trenching) has dropped to the point where the roi for deployment is a matter of a year or so, will everyone see it. otherwise, you will be hoping for a long time...

q.
I was just using that cause its speeds can go toe to toe with cable, unlike DSL.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by me1212 See Profile :

I was just using that cause its speeds can go toe to toe with cable, unlike DSL.
for the majority of people off this board (and even some of them on this board), speed is not the *deciding* factor when purchasing service, its all about value.
i have no "technology loyalties" when it comes to the internet. if qwest could have provided me a price point that was comparable to that of cable with a speed to match, i would have chosen them. they can't, so i didn't.

dsl will work for many of the rural areas, especially since the cable operators in those locations aren't pushing a very high bandwidth (yes, bandwidth is used *correctly* in this statement) plant, maybe 760hmz at the most. tradeoffs between channels, speeds, and user density must be made. for that time, dsl *can* compete, if the lec chooses to do it on price (a battle it can win) and not speed (something that is unlikely for dsl to win).

q.
decifal

join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN

Re: Broadband is a Utility

I would be happy with a 90 percent or better up time dsl line. Cable is soo damn close though.. Whoever gets here first gets my buisness as long as its up 90 percent of the time at least.. I understand that crap happens and sometime things break... Thats cool as long as something is being done about it...
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Below a certain point, speed DOES matter. Try using a 512/256 connection for everything you're doing. It's pure crap but the next highest tier, 1 Mbit down and I think 512k up, may or may not work correctly since there isn't really enough capacity on the WiFI tower here. Add to this the price discrepancy...$70 per month versus $43...and you get people sticking to the lower tier.

However if DSL came out here, even at $70 for 3 Mbit, people would likely jump on it. I know I would, though when I went back to college my parents might downgrade the pipe to something slower to save a few bucks.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Actually, it's just the big phone companies that aren't embracing fiber. Take a look at a dozen telephone coops, and you'll see that most of the more urban ones are...guess what...running FTTH. If your provider isn't running fiber anywhere, they're lame. Period.

Problem is, both here in Texas and in Colorado I've got two lame providers. One (Verizon) won't even give me DSL. The other (Qwest) won't give me ADSL2+.

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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Jamestown, NC
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by iansltx See Profile :

Actually, it's just the big phone companies that aren't embracing fiber. Take a look at a dozen telephone coops, and you'll see that most of the more urban ones are...guess what...running FTTH. If your provider isn't running fiber anywhere, they're lame. Period.
Yep, my local ILEC is running GPON fiber to all new developments. Not sure about to existing developments.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

Guadalupe Valley Telephone Cooperative here (GVTC for short) is building in fiber with all new developments, and overbuilding fiber to an increasing number of current copper subscribers. The cost is expensive...I believe it's around $2k per subscriber...but

1) You can sell 20 Mbit internet over fiber without having to upgrade capacity (or 25 Mbit for businesses)
2) You can sell digital TV over fiber
3) Fiber is cheap to maintain
4) 1 and 2 mean more ARPU, 3 means less expenses

The problem is that the "big boys" have to show ROI in the short term. When you've got anal-ysts crowing about how fiber is such a bad investment (though it turns $60-a-month double play subscribers into $120 a month triple play ones instead of converts to cable) it's hard to roll out a network that will take a few years to pay for itself. The coops on the other hand can put every cent of profits ack into the network and plan for the long term, unless they feel like a capital credit would be a better idea.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
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said by iansltx See Profile :

you'll see that most of the more urban ones are
the key is "urban". i understand that when you put enough people together, eventually there is going to be enough demand for the local coop to do something "future-proof". the issue here is not the urban centers, especially since there does _tend_ to be more competition there. this does nothing to help the rural customers though - which was the whole basis of my earlier argument.

q.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

I said urban because those are the places where it's cost-effective to run FTTH right now.

In rural areas the coop is more likely to use RE-ADSL, ADSL (/2+), maybe with AdrenaLine or equivalent methods, or some sort of wireless distribution.

In my case, Verizon is doing nothing but HCTC, the coop a few miles over, has rolled out 3 Mbps DSL to places the cable company would never in its dreams touch. Before that rollout the choices were wireless, wireless or wireless, all of them subject to caps, slowdowns and low speeds for high prices. Granted, the DSL packages are anemic in speed and high in price compared to what Verizon or AT&T have available, but there's no other way to get a 3 Mbit connection where the co-op has put DSL, shorted of a bonded T1.

I actually called in yesterday and to my surprise (versus what would've happened with an ILEC of the commercial sort) DSL was available to my old house out there...all tiers. That area isn't quite a mile between each house, but the population density per mile is in the single digits.

So no, it's not FTTH; the copper there works just fine. However it is MUCH better than the nearest competition, whichw ill probably do exactly nothing in the near future to...uh...compete in the area.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by iansltx See Profile :

So no, it's not FTTH; the copper there works just fine. However it is MUCH better than the nearest competition, whichw ill probably do exactly nothing in the near future to...uh...compete in the area.
my point exactly! ftth is a *huge* capital expenditure for any company (ilec, clec, coop) in an urban area. there are factors like roi, time to deploy, advances in material technology, etc. however, with a large population density, costs can be covered with a large subscriber base.

my point, in response to me1212 See Profile was that the ramblings and desires for ubiquitous fiber are childish at best. there is no large roi incentive for the major players to deploy to, and a local coop could have trouble even scraping up the capital to perform such a buildout (even if profits aren't a concern, as is the case in a coop). in these areas, dsl will work just fine to bring some semblance of broadband to the people. my point was that while fiber is nice, in many (most?) areas, it is still a pipe dream at best.

q.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Broadband is a Utility

its a pipedream because our networks are run by people with only profit in mind. Verizon even with its limited FIOS push took lots of heat from its investors before they saw the light that it was Fiber or go home when it came to fighting the pending DOCSIS 3 of cable.

AT&T isnt going to last against full D3 deployments and elimination of analog channels on the cable market.
--
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me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

"my point, in response to me1212 was that the ramblings and desires for ubiquitous fiber are childish at best"

I think you misunderstood me, I meant FTTH IF the Gov(we) pay for it. If I have to pay to get the connection to my house I want the best. I do not care what a private company does, if they only wants to do DSL to a rural area that is VERY good DSL>>>>>>>>sat(WB/hughes)=ISDN>dial-up. We don't have DSL or cable here(yet) I would love DSL, I am just saying if the Government makes US(the people) pay for it for the ISPs don't have to, I don't want a half pass job done.

tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by me1212 See Profile :

I think you misunderstood me, I meant FTTH IF the Gov(we) pay for it.
novel idea, but it will never work. again if you only have a given number of funds to spread over such a wide geographic area, you have to pick and choose to see what will give the largest "bang for the buck".
additionally, you have incumbents and msos alike lobbying hot and heavy for the stimulus monies. because we have lawmakers that are nearly clueless when it comes to actual broadband policy and lobbyists from the major players trying to sway opinion one way, what you will end up with is a transfer payment to the major player of your choice with an industry wide corporate tax-cut; neither of which will actually get anything accomplished, but it will look good on paper.

q.
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

Re: Broadband is a Utility

"neither of which will actually get anything accomplished,"
Sucks don't it..........

How many time have we given them money b4? I think once we gave them money because they said most houses would have access to a 45n/45n connection if we gave them money, but it was a while ago I can recall if all of that is 100% correct.
lacklusterbb

join:2009-03-12

Actually, there's a fair amount of federally-deployed fiber to federally-owned facilities located in rural areas (all of the BPA-operated dams in the West come to mind immediately). It wouldn't take much to expand fiber out in those areas. The first trenches have already been dug and the fiber laid.

It's time we realize that this "us vs. them" (urban, rural) divide has been manufactured by the service providers as a way divide public opinion and to maximize their profits without any consideration of their obligation to the public good. (And yes, corporations have an moral obligation to the societies that they function in and profit from.) We the public need to consider the bigger picture--the public need and national security interests. It's in our best (national security) interest to have a broadly-deployed, high-speed Internet. If we don't require this investment, economically, we will continue to see our jobs shipped abroad to developing economies that just 2 decades ago were still termed "third world." In 2 decades, will we be considered an under-developed nation? It's pretty pathetic, the nation was able to put a man on the moon first can't even deploy broadband Internet nationwide.
margaf77

join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ
·Optimum Online
·RoadRunner Cable

said by me1212 See Profile :

Net neutrality is a must. 1TB caps like in Japan(or no cap at all, unless they give me REAL data that show we NEED caps I will always be against them. If we get a real broadband package from DC I hope they have a no caps clause, if we pay for them they should not get to skrew us) More than 2 providers in one area=win one cable one FTTH one wireless. And thats all I can think of for now.
The caps in Japan are on uploads, not downloads. Its 1TB up that is the cap.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

said by Matt See Profile :

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility. There will always be people who don't require it -- however, just like you don't require power, (the Amish do just fine without it) it is absolutely a requirement for the vast majority of the population.
For many, yes. They/We may consider it a Utility.
Problem for *us*, the majority still don't see it as one and well, the mob rules.
Then there are the providers that really want to stay away from regulation and standards across the board.
They want to keep people paying as much as possible for as little as possible.

Metered Billing as with any other utility... I wouldn't mind!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by dadkins See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility. There will always be people who don't require it -- however, just like you don't require power, (the Amish do just fine without it) it is absolutely a requirement for the vast majority of the population.
For many, yes. They/We may consider it a Utility.
Problem for *us*, the majority still don't see it as one and well, the mob rules.
Then there are the providers that really want to stay away from regulation and standards across the board.
They want to keep people paying as much as possible for as little as possible.

Metered Billing as with any other utility... I wouldn't mind!
I do agree, there are a ton of people that still don't view it as a utility. However, won't you think of the children?!?

Seriously though, can you imagine how much not having broadband and computer access would stifle the development of a child in our society? Grandma/Grandpa may not see it as necessary, nor may the rural farmer in Idaho, but I think it's moved to the point where every child should have access to affordable broadband and a computer at home.

And a free government handout isn't the solution. The solution is either mild regulation to require that deployment goals be met, ala POTS, or via incentives for smaller ISPs to deploy to areas that our duopoly overlords don't deem profitable.

TKJunkMail
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by Matt See Profile :

And a free government handout isn't the solution.
As the numbers show, broadband growth in the US is doing just fine without government spending billions to make it grow. Maybe some of the billions in the incentive bill could be used for something else - like reducing the government deficit.

Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
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Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

And a free government handout isn't the solution.
As the numbers show, broadband growth in the US is doing just fine without government spending billions to make it grow. Maybe some of the billions in the incentive bill could be used for something else - like reducing the government deficit.
Broadband is still a relatively new product so of course it is going to grow until it reaches a saturation point. There will come a point where the remaining market is people who simply can't afford it or who don't have it available to them. Will the big boys deploy to them at that point? Perhaps, but I would bet no.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
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Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by Matt See Profile :

There will come a point where the remaining market is people who simply can't afford it or who don't have it available to them. Will the big boys deploy to them at that point? Perhaps, but I would bet no.
Of course not. Why would anyone offer a product or service to someone who can't afford it?
--
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD
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said by Matt See Profile :

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility.
As someone who does not believe that broadband is a utility, I would like to know how you reached that conclusion.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com

Re: Broadband is a Utility

His Magic 8 Ball said so? He has one of those Jump To Conclusion mats/rugs like the guy from Office Space? He's an investor who supports metered billing?

For him, broadband may be essential--like an actual "utility", but for the "vast majority" of people, broadband simply has utility--useful but not essential.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by Matt See Profile :

This is further proof that for the vast majority of people, broadband has become a utility.
As someone who does not believe that broadband is a utility, I would like to know how you reached that conclusion.
Well, I also subscribe to that conclusion and have for quite some time. First of all, if it was "categorized" as a utility, it could be regulated through some sort of PUC where rate increases would have to justified through verification of a carriers costs rather than out of a whim. Furthermore, caps could also be defined as a cost so implementation of caps would have to be scrutinized through verification of need before applied. Plus, you'd have the added advantage of a uniform broadband policy....nice concept.. huh?
Now from a user standpoint, more and more banks, utilities, and government services (federal, state, county, and municiple)are offered on the web. If your local gov is replacing information operators that answer phones with pages on the web, then it becomes a service for those that are only using the the web. And thats not everyone!
Will this be complicated...absolutely. But the carriers left on their own are proving to be a pay to play extortionists. Atts story yesterday....Time warners cap debacle...ask yourself this. 3 years ago did you ever think you'd be talking about 5gb caps and metered billing?
What are we going to be talking about in 3 years?
Star now, maybe something will get done. If you've got better, I'm all ears!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by S_engineer See Profile :

First of all, if it was "categorized" as a utility, it could be regulated through some sort of PUC where rate increases would have to justified through verification of a carriers costs rather than out of a whim. Furthermore, caps could also be defined as a cost so implementation of caps would have to be scrutinized through verification of need before applied. Plus, you'd have the added advantage of a uniform broadband policy....nice concept.. huh?
Yup. Then my broadband bill can go up every year just like my water, electric and sewer bills do. My cable internet bill has remained the same every year with the service improving during that time.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by S_engineer See Profile :

First of all, if it was "categorized" as a utility, it could be regulated through some sort of PUC where rate increases would have to justified through verification of a carriers costs rather than out of a whim. Furthermore, caps could also be defined as a cost so implementation of caps would have to be scrutinized through verification of need before applied. Plus, you'd have the added advantage of a uniform broadband policy....nice concept.. huh?
Yup. Then my broadband bill can go up every year just like my water, electric and sewer bills do. My cable internet bill has remained the same every year with the service improving during that time.
this is why i blame content owners and not the cable company when the bill goes up. HSI from Comcast atleast has been 42.95 for as long as i remember, yet it keeps getting faster.

on the flip side when talking pay TV, the cost goes up and up constantly. and then you get people like NFL network who throw a fit about being thrown into the optional sports tier.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast

Re: Broadband is a Utility

you mean that pay tv that your cable carrier is forcing you to bundle in order to get that $42.95 monthly bill?
You can't say your price has remained the same if your forced into subscribing to a service thats rates have constantly gone up (TV)!
--
"When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
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Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Broadband is a Utility

said by S_engineer See Profile :

You can't say your price has remained the same if your forced into subscribing to a service thats rates have constantly gone up (TV)!
Oddly enough my cable TV rates have increased at a rate far less than my regulated utility bills.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

Wait!!!

I thought there was an "Exaflood"...
Doom, Gloom, and an Internet Apocalypse.

So much BS lately, waders aint cutting it no more - need a freakin boat!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
Forums » Broadband Growth Speeds Back Up


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