 
baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | Boo Way to kill off the broadband economy Verizon. Though I dont have FiOS, VZW has made SEVERAL promises they failed to deliver on.
Maybe cable will finally be convinced to do more D3 upgrades, which should help out Cisco and Arris. | |
|  | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
 ·Covad Communications
| Re: Boo said by baineschile  :Way to kill off the broadband economy Verizon. Though I dont have FiOS, VZW has made SEVERAL promises they failed to deliver on. Maybe cable will finally be convinced to do more D3 upgrades, which should help out Cisco and Arris. The pace that Verizon was laying fiber was unsustainable for any for-profit company. I am surprised that their board of directors didn't reign in the spending long before now.
Comcast, on the other hand, has no excuse not to continue spending money for network buildouts. They should follow up their D3 rollouts by extending FTTP in highly profitable areas. If Comcast does this, the other cable carriers will follow and broadband expansion will continue. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Boo said by dcdeadbeat :The pace that Verizon was laying fiber was unsustainable for any for-profit company. I am surprised that their board of directors didn't reign in the spending long before now. Really? Their CFO is quite happy with their earnings and growth and of all the telecom companies, Verizon's stock is sitting at the top of the heap. 20% higher or so actually.
»www.reuters.com/article/technolo···20090520 | |
| | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| Re: Boo I didn't say they were not making profit. There is making profit and there is making profit and keeping costs low.
Also Verizon's profits are being boosted by their shares of jointly owned Verizon Wireless. They also saw an increase in profits from their business division, Verizon Business (MCI).
What this means is that Verizon would do well to control its costs as it is losing significant amounts of residential landline customers and replacing them with (upfront expensive) FIOS and wireless customers. In the long run, this behavior is not sustainable for any company. No accountant in their right mind would agree that spending thousands to acquire each new customer is a good idea even if you can afford to do so.
Cable on the other hand can spend less to acquire new customers and use their profits in the future to build out a FTTP infrastructure. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Boo said by dcdeadbeat :I didn't say they were not making profit. There is making profit and there is making profit and keeping costs low. Also Verizon's profits are being boosted by their shares of jointly owned Verizon Wireless. They also saw an increase in profits from their business division, Verizon Business (MCI). What this means is that Verizon would do well to control its costs as it is losing significant amounts of residential landline customers and replacing them with (upfront expensive) FIOS and wireless customers. In the long run, this behavior is not sustainable for any company. No accountant in their right mind would agree that spending thousands to acquire each new customer is a good idea even if you can afford to do so. Yes, but haven't the costs per customer decreased dramatically as they've rolled out FiOS? There is no reason to think that decrease in cost won't continue, so the high cost per customer won't continue indefinitely.
The goal of every business is to acquire new customers, even if you initially take a loss on that customer. You are banking on future revenues from that customer. | |
| | | | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
2 edits | Re: Boo said by Matt Yes, but haven't the costs per customer decreased dramatically as they've rolled out FiOS? There is no reason to think that decrease in cost won't continue, so the high cost per customer won't continue indefinitely.
The goal of every business is to acquire new customers, even if you initially take a loss on that customer. You are banking on future revenues from that customer.
No the goal of every company is to maximize ROI, not to acquire new customers. In other words, if it costs too much to acquire the nth customer, then the available resources should be redirected to a newer product while continuing to profit from the existing products.
Sprint is an example of this. They sold off their cell towers and lease them back access to them. Meanwhile they are directing profits from their Boost prepaid customers into new technologies like their Clear WiMax venture. The difference here is that Clear is a controlled rollout, unlike FIOS which spends lots of money to possibly acquire a new customer. | |
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Big Pete 82
join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA | Re: Boo So basically you are trying to tell us that Sprint is a well run company and Verizon is a poorly run company? Their stock prices beg to differ... | |
| | | | | | | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| Re: Boo said by Big Pete 82 :So basically you are trying to tell us that Sprint is a well run company and Verizon is a poorly run company? Their stock prices beg to differ... Actually Sprint is the dark horse that is making the comeback victory of a life-time. They made some seriously bad decisions in the past (most companies do at some point) and they can either fail or re-invent themselves. It is how you dealt with a crisis that is more important than the fact that you went through one.
Companies should not be judged entirely on their stock alone, especially technology companies that have the ability to re-invent themselves. Judge companies on their ability to survive long term. It is my assertion that you can do this by enhancing existing technology infrastructure until such time that the market allows you to explore new technology. | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Boo said by dcdeadbeat :Actually Sprint is the dark horse that is making the comeback victory of a life-time. I agree with this. I've had Sprint, Verizon and now AT&T and hands-down, in my area, Sprint was the best. They had the best call quality (Verizon was the worst), no dropped calls (AT&T drops them like hot potatoes), and a great 3G data network. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: Boo said by Matt :said by dcdeadbeat :Actually Sprint is the dark horse that is making the comeback victory of a life-time. I agree with this. I've had Sprint, Verizon and now AT&T and hands-down, in my area, Sprint was the best. They had the best call quality (Verizon was the worst), no dropped calls (AT&T drops them like hot potatoes), and a great 3G data network. And if the Palm Pre is the hit some think it may be, it could give them the boost the iPhone gave to AT&T.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Boo said by GOLFnSUN :said by Matt :said by dcdeadbeat :Actually Sprint is the dark horse that is making the comeback victory of a life-time. I agree with this. I've had Sprint, Verizon and now AT&T and hands-down, in my area, Sprint was the best. They had the best call quality (Verizon was the worst), no dropped calls (AT&T drops them like hot potatoes), and a great 3G data network. And if the Palm Pre is the hit some think it may be, it could give them the boost the iPhone gave to AT&T. Absolutely. Although, it looks like Palm is already backing off on the announced feature set and saying those features will (may?) come later. For example, no video recording, no visual voicemail, no flash browser support, no application syncing with your desktop, and (understandably) a weak app store at initial launch. | |
| | | | | | | | | | hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by GOLFnSUN :said by Matt :said by dcdeadbeat :Actually Sprint is the dark horse that is making the comeback victory of a life-time. I agree with this. I've had Sprint, Verizon and now AT&T and hands-down, in my area, Sprint was the best. They had the best call quality (Verizon was the worst), no dropped calls (AT&T drops them like hot potatoes), and a great 3G data network. And if the Palm Pre is the hit some think it may be, it could give them the boost the iPhone gave to AT&T. unfortunately sprint's technical support are morons..their customer service even moreso. They are still bleeding customers due to these issues..also the pre has only a day or two before the new iphone launches...along with an acknowledged launch shortage. The ceo has slapped limits on data plans and is reworking their plans and costs to be more like vz and itt..this is not a reinvention..this is following hte crowd over the cliff.
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God Blesshttp://www.emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" | |
| | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by dcdeadbeat : The difference here is that Clear is a controlled rollout, unlike FIOS which spends lots of money to possibly acquire a new customer. A controlled rollout going nowhere. They haven't even upgraded their pre-wimax cities. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| said by baineschile :Way to kill off the broadband economy Verizon. Though I dont have FiOS, VZW has made SEVERAL promises they failed to deliver on. Maybe cable will finally be convinced to do more D3 upgrades, which should help out Cisco and Arris. MAybe you heard - the economy sucks and people are cutting back on services like phone and internet. That causes vendors to cut back on spending.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| Re: Boo said by GOLFnSUN :MAybe you heard - the economy sucks and people are cutting back on services like phone and internet. That causes vendors to cut back on spending. What I found interesting is that the Verizon CFO said that when the recession ends, he doesn't foresee a large uptick in consumer revenue, but rather business revenue. This leads me to believe that their consumer growth has been strong, despite the recession. (People fleeing cable for cheaper pricing and introductory offers perhaps?) | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Boo said by Matt :What I found interesting is that the Verizon CFO said that when the recession ends, he doesn't foresee a large uptick in consumer revenue, but rather business revenue. This leads me to believe that their consumer growth has been strong, despite the recession. (People fleeing cable for cheaper pricing and introductory offers perhaps?) I don't take away the same interpretation as you do. Consumer spending has been dropping over the last 18 months. Consumer spending is down and consumer savings is up. »www.bea.gov/newsreleases/nationa···ease.htm
Business expenditures are more logic based and depend on rising earnings and need to replace deteriorating equipment and dwindling inventories. So as the economy recovers, I agree that spending there would increase.
But consumer spending is much more emotional and I believe that even as the economy recovers, consumer spending will take a longer time to recover. And I believe that is the point being made.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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Michael C
@sbcglobal.net | Maybe you HAVEN'T heard - consumer spending on broadband grew all last year and the first quarter of this year and shows no signs that it's going to stop growing. This is one area of the economy that ISN'T slowing down. | |
| chronoss2009
join:2008-09-23 | could it bbe that HIGH price s are to blame? Hrm lets see you rise the prices of home net, there cable /satellite to point its too expensive and then you whine about shrinking and get a bailout...perfect | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Saturation At some point, ISPs do get to a saturation level for deployment. Once you pass a large majority of buildings which could want broadband, these companies simply don't need as much equipment to continue deploying service to unserved areas.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
| iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
 ·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Solution: Muni broadband Okay, it's not a solution of done badly. But it's sure pick up the market for fiber. And if fiber is in town with decently-priced carrier-class connections over it, then wireless internet providers can broadcast out into the sticks via WiMAX (Motorola, Alvarion, Airspan, Proxim, etc.) and increase demand for that infrastructure.
Yes, the most profitable areas are almost all wired. Now companies have to upgrade their networks to DOCSIS 3 or FTTP, and someone has to expand out into areas where urban, inefficient business models may not work as well. Hate to hold them up as an example, but Suddenlink appears to do this. For better-loved examples see Windstream and CenTel/Embarq. | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| lack of spending is cable's fault Verizon's doing it's part.. albeit very selectively & stiffing rural and bad ROI geographies. Now it's cable's turn to mass adopt docsis 3.0-- and the main reason spending is down, is that acutally getting the modems into the hands of the people means massive spending.. and since current hardware does everything the companies want it to.. they don't acutally need to spend on the modems enmasse the way FIOS or FTTP needs to spend on ONT interfaces as the end-to-end solution.
Cable's decision to NOT compete for the top-tier market (in most cases) is protectionist of video and little esle. The cable companies will move only as far as they have to to maintain market share. This is one of the reasons we're seeing a testing of wills to maintain traditional terms of service.. telco vs cableco in so-called unlimited service/bandwidth.
Not so great if your a docsis equipment maker. About the only ones who will have a good ROI are the dsl equipment makers who get to milk at&t for millions in their milking of dsl in the last mile. Spending much more then Bell Atlantic, Gte-- all the former rbocs combined. | |
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Broadband Hardware Market To Shrink 36%