Broadband: Necessary Utility or Luxury? The debate continues... "Who deserves broadband?" asks a Telephony Online editor, who expands on the debate on whether broadband is becoming a necessary utility, or remains a luxury. "Does every rural community, hoping to hang on to its schools and hospitals, not to mention its young people, deserve to get broadband access?" Is broadband a necessary utility? If not now, will it ever be?
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  DigitalAs-Salamu AlaykumPremium
join:2000-07-24
Cleveland, OH | It's needed. I'd say it's needed. How else would I get all of those nice songs from Itunes? It's no fun on dialup. 
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|  | | | Splunge It's a luxury, but possibly not, and I'm not being indecisive. | |
| | |  tapeloopNot bad at all, really.Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
kudos:1 |  Irving C. Salzberg productions
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@qwest.net | Re: It's needed. it's common sence. | |
| | | | If it is a luxury then it is useless, if it is a utility then it may become useful. Do I make myself clear? OINK | |
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 Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | Yeah but I like it To me it would seem that 128k is a necessity. The internet is a great resource and can be very empowering for a growing mind in need of information
Anything beyond that is a luxury. Multimedia is fun but by no means necessary. Maybe schools and libraries "need" broadband simply to serve up decent page load times to a larger number of people. But aside from that, staying connected doesn't mean requiring a big pipe. Just as transportation doesn't mean owning a Lexus. | |
| |  shimonmorPremium
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | Re: Yeah but I like it said by Fluker:To me it would seem that 128k is a necessity. What about 56k? Your 128k number is way to arbitrary.
said by Fluker:The internet is a great resource and can be very empowering for a growing mind in need of information It sure can be. But that doesn't make it a necessity. The library can be even more empowering because it gets you off your butt and into the real world. Also those tapes of Mozart they make for babies can be wonderful for growing minds too. Should the government subsidize "baby tapes" too so everyone has the opportunity to raise a child prodigy? | |
| | | nonner9
join:2005-10-14
Charlotte, NC | Re: Yeah but I like it 128kb is the definition of broadband given by some gov't agency (fcc maybe?) | |
| | | | | | Re: Yeah but I like it FCC's definition is 200kbps... | |
| | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| If you want to consider the technical definition, 56k dial up is broadband because it uses a "broad" range of frequencies. Similarly, FiOS data isn't technically broadband as it uses a fixed frequency (although it can carry multiple frequencies at the same time, it only uses one for data).
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Yeah but I like it said by cdru:If you want to consider the technical definition, 56k dial up is broadband because it uses a "broad" range of frequencies. Similarly, FiOS data isn't technically broadband as it uses a fixed frequency (although it can carry multiple frequencies at the same time, it only uses one for data). Wow! - that was, well... reaching. | |
| | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Yeah but I like it said by fiberguy:said by cdru:If you want to consider the technical definition, 56k dial up is broadband because it uses a "broad" range of frequencies. Similarly, FiOS data isn't technically broadband as it uses a fixed frequency (although it can carry multiple frequencies at the same time, it only uses one for data). Wow! - that was, well... reaching. I'm not going to argue with that. And I'd never argue that 56K was broadband or FiOS isn't. I was just tossing my .02 worth into the argument as to "what's broadband?" debate.
One of the strict TECHNICAL definition of broadband is the transmission of data across multiple frequencies. Ever heard of 10broad36 as compared to 10baseT? One uses a range of frequencies (broad) and one uses a single (base). But both still transmit at 10mbits.
But over time the definition has morphed into other meanings, that, while maybe stretching what the original definition meant, basically indicates a high speed internet connection. But just saying "high speed" still is still arbitrary as shimonmor  pointed out above.
Me personally, I say anything faster then 128K ISDN can be considered broadband. And it probably wouldn't take much to convince me that it could be raised to 256k these days.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| | | | " Should the government subsidize "baby tapes" too so everyone has the opportunity to raise a child prodigy?"
You are comparing one wonderful thing with basic infrastructure that facilitates a great many things. The government doesn't subsidize every activity or application or service that takes place on the net, nor should it. This doesn't mean that the government shouldn't be making sure that basic infrastructure, that is an important part of modern economic life, gets to everyone, including those that the market has decided are not worth serving. The government has, in the past, seen that it has an important role in such infrastructure development, whether it be roads, universal electrification, etc. | |
| | | cdw5510
join:2004-09-12
Langhorne, PA | Its only 53k by standards. | |
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| Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN | libraries are (from what I understand) paid for with tax dollars and they enable access to volumes of information.
Internet access, though used in a more private way, seems to do the same. It could be argued that 56k is good enough, but usually true 53k connections only happen on lines that are already nice enough that dsl is available. Most rural areas have only pair gained lines that allow 28.8 if you are fortunate. 28.8 can be very tiresome when it takes 20+ seconds per page if there are average graphics. do-able, but not cool. | |
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| | or public service? Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. | |
| | shimonmorPremium
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | Re: or public service? said by Pictor Guy:Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. Excellent analogy. | |
| | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 | It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. | |
| | | | | Re: or public service? said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. Right... just like the fact that my trash removal company will pickup large items one day a week is a useful service. It's not a utility. It's not regulated and it's not required. If I pay someone to mow my lawn I may find it a useful service because I work a lot but I wouldn't put it on the same level as having heat in my home.
My daily life is so wrapped on having broadband that I have more than one connection at home (but no access to DSL or fiber). To me it's VERY important but I still don't see it as a utility. However, it has a direct impact to economic growth in my area and my job is dependant on broadband.
If BB was a utility it would be regulated and that would stifle growth and innovation. But that said I might finally have access to DSL but that might be the ONLY option I would have. | |
| | | | | | Re: or public service? quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises:
Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market?
quote:
If BB was a utility it would be regulated and that would stifle growth and innovation.
lessig recently wrote about the myth that all regulation stifles innovation. In fact he makes the point that regulation is exactly what made the growth of the internet outside of government/university development possible. The telcos could not kill the isp market, they could not outlaw the connecting of modems to phone lines precisely because they WERE regulated. And of course the internet was NOT first begun by the market.
»www.lessig.org/blog/ in "the fiction zone that DC has become"
All this talk about the technicalities of calling it a utility miss the key point. It is fundamental infrastructure that is becoming an ever increasingly important part of economic activity in society. The market is not delivering universal coverage. George bush himself has said that we should push for universal coverage by 2007. At some point the government is going to have to act, in some way, to see to it that the gaps in coverage that the market provides are filled. | |
| | | | | | | Re: or public service? said by asdfdfdf : quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises: Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market? It depends. Local roads? If you were to think of it as the last mile then in many states the answer is yes. And yes, there are still many dirt roads in the US. | |
| | | | | |  rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: or public service? said by Pictor Guy:said by asdfdfdf : quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises: Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market? It depends. Local roads? If you were to think of it as the last mile then in many states the answer is yes. And yes, there are still many dirt roads in the US. Those dirt roads are maintained, leveled, oiled and kept up. Other wise the people driving on theose roads would be driving on something other than what is considered a road.
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| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. So does that make Cable TV a utility? becuase it's not.
And I don't mean to pick on you, just commenting is all.
However, my attitude is why use other services to compare and define broadband service? HSI is not telephone, it's not electricity, it's not natural gas, it's exactly what it is, it's high speed access to the internet.
The point is, in my opinion, it's not a utility. It's not a life line service and life will go on without it. | |
| | | | rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
2 edits | Re: or public service? said by fiberguy:said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. The point is, in my opinion, it's not a utility. It's not a life line service and life will go on without it. You can also live without water, electricity, sewer, telephone, and natural gas. The world is not going to stop because your not getting those services. It would just make your life harder. Same with high speed internet. I fail to see your argument as being valid when arguing life will go on if high speed internet is not a utility.
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HUH!!! Sekurecom | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: or public service? You can not live without water, and in today's society, we have deemed electricity and natural gas a necessity for heating/cooling purposes, as well as sanitary purposes. Many places will deem a dwelling "not live-able" with out those services. Telephone, I agree, other than it IS a lifeline service in case of emergency.
Television and Internet service has not proven to be a requirement. News? Get a news paper or listen to a radio (battery of couse, because electricity isn't a necessity, remember?  )
My argument is VERY valid in these points as certain utilities are already deemed 'required' and 'necessary' - it will be a long time before HSI will be in that arena and even then, since the telephone is still an option as well, I think it will be a very long time before HSI has any kind of function that our society deems it a required 'utility'.
The only reason I can see HSI becoming a utility is because it would benefit the powers-that-be financially to do so.
Internet is a luxury as much as the telephone is. Many people get along without the internet.
edit:
And, electricity and natural gas is so much a requirement of life that here in Minnesota that those utilities are required to restore service to those who have had their service shut off due to past due bills during the period of November 15th to April 15th. | |
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| RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | said by Pictor Guy:Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. BB has little impact on housing decisions for most people to buy into an area. Things like traffic, stores, schools, density, cost, 'environment', sidewalks, and neighbors are much more important. All other things being equal, then BB would affect the decision for some of us.
Granted, some people would turn down a good house in a good area just because of no BB, but most would not.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | | Re: or public service? said by RayW:BB has little impact on housing decisions for most people to buy into an area. Things like traffic, stores, schools, density, cost, 'environment', sidewalks, and neighbors are much more important. All other things being equal, then BB would affect the decision for some of us. Granted, some people would turn down a good house in a good area just because of no BB, but most would not. I would disagree but it may depend on the area that you live in.
And here's some information to back up the claim on BB's economic impact to an area...
»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···037.html
And the 36 page PDF to the presentation done by some people at MIT and Carnegie Mellon...
»itc.mit.edu/itel/docs/2005/Measu···pact.pdf | |
| | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: or public service? Ah...MIT and Carnegie Mellon. I would not consider that main stream America.
The Arstechnica article seems to be trying to say that BB makes for a 'better' life and points to some more densely populated NE states as an example, and to some less densely populated areas in the north central US as a counter example.
Again, depends on what you want, I would choose South Dakota, Montana, or Wyoming and no BB over New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut and BB. I may make less, but my cost of living is less and I have less stress. Again, it all depends on what you want. Before my neighborhood had DSL and Comcast, many of us WANTED BB, but not bad enough to move. And it is a toss up if my life is better for having BB (but I have fun anyway).
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | | | | Re: or public service? Good broadband has the ability to bring work into a community. For example, customer service reps who work at home, etc. If we are trying to keep jobs in the USA, this is a good way to provide American industry a source of cheap labor while at the same time increasing the quality of life for rural America.
A housewife in Kansas maybe delighted to bring home an extra $20k a year, whereas such a job might be considered by below busboy level in NYC. | |
| | | | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: or public service? said by stufried:Good broadband has the ability to bring work into a community. For example, customer service reps who work at home, etc. If we are trying to keep jobs in the USA, this is a good way to provide American industry a source of cheap labor while at the same time increasing the quality of life for rural America. A housewife in Kansas maybe delighted to bring home an extra $20k a year, whereas such a job might be considered by below busboy level in NYC. Could be, but despite the benefits of a fast link, I (and many people I know) chose a place that was lucky to get 12K on a dial up because of other factors. Again, it is what your priorities are. Granted, someday your kids may need it instead of busing off to school, but currently mine use the computers at school most of the time, my network is for play.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | | | | | | Re: or public service? said by RayW:Could be, but despite the benefits of a fast link, I (and many people I know) chose a place that was lucky to get 12K on a dial up because of other factors. Again, it is what your priorities are. Granted, someday your kids may need it instead of busing off to school, but currently mine use the computers at school most of the time, my network is for play.
Okay... pick a town. Same schools, same access to good jobs, etc. Now picture one street with access to DSL and another street without. What house do you think will get the upper hand in a sale if this was an area that had lots of people who work in the technology sector? Ever wonder why Virginia is a Broad Band battle ground? Ever think that even in the battle ground there are areas (not rural) that still can't get DSL or FIOS and/or cable? | |
| | | | | | | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: or public service? said by Pictor Guy:Okay... pick a town. Same schools, same access to good jobs, etc. Now picture one street with access to DSL and another street without. What house do you think will get the upper hand in a sale if this was an area that had lots of people who work in the technology sector? Ever wonder why Virginia is a Broad Band battle ground? Ever think that even in the battle ground there are areas (not rural) that still can't get DSL or FIOS and/or cable? Again, you are assuming that is the lifestyle chosen, many people choose not to take the BB and go for an area that they like better.
And yes, you are right, the incumbents are $ driven in most cases as to where they put in BB resulting a strange pattern. Only reason we got DSL here so early is a State Representative moved into our area about 4 blocks away (or so said a tech I know).
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| It's a necessary luxury It's both. It's necessary in the sense that if you are going to compete with the competition, provide services that your customers demand, and communicate quickly with your supply chain, you gotta have it.
It's a luxury in the sense though that your business isn't going to shut down tomorrow if you aren't wired.
In my opinion, internet access is like cable tv. You can survive without it, you can get an advantage if you have it, and most people have it to the point where it seems like a necessity like running water, a telephone, or electricity.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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See 18 replies to this post | |
 gatorkramKaBOOM BabyPremium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:2 | rerun Didn't we just cover this topic awhile back?
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Give me bandwidth or give me death! | |
|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  Neither Luxury nor Necessity
But broadband for the home is definitely in the luxury category. It is available almost to everyone(satellite), but not always at a price they want to pay. In my mind, that is the very definition of a luxury.
If someone in government decides that broadband is a necessity , then that means it just becomes another thing that the welfare drones will demand be added to their monthly support checks. And they already have enough covered by those monthly checks and food stamps and child health care, etc.
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See 25 replies to this post | |
 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | It's like deja vu all over again Didn't I see a very similar story on BBR a few months ago?
Let's see, sooner or later this will slouch towards another USA VS the world argument, or a ICANN VS the UN debate, or GASP, the dreaded Bush VS humanity debate.
Or at least I hope it won't.
I think it's a dual edged sword. All of us come to this site because we like the idea of a big fat pipe delivering everything from e-mail to HDTD into our homes. Therefore, I think some of us have an instilled bias towards calling broadband a utility. I'm sure most of us would be more than peeved to go without high speed internet for more than a few days at home.
As far as folks in rural communities, I don't think it's a matter of "deserving" anything. I mean, how does one determine who "deserves" such services. Sure, I would like to see everyone who wants broadband to have it, but every decision has positives and negatives. Living in a "rural" area, imho, is far more desirable than living in a urban or suburban area. I like the idea of wide open space, or a home surrounded by wooded lands, or farm land. This was my home up until about 12 years ago, when the builders went crazy and planted a bunch of infernal houses in my country wonderland. Now I'm stuck living in a town full of yuppie snobs driving their BMW SUV's like they own the whole damn road.
Of course, up until all those houses came, we couldn't even get cable TV.
Given the choice, I would rather see all these houses go away, the woods and the farms to come back, and you can take the high speed internet. I'll get DirecTV and go to the library when I need to get on line.
Just my 2 cents... | |
| |  9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | Re: It's like deja vu all over again said by N3OGH:I like the idea of wide open space, or a home surrounded by wooded lands, or farm land. This was my home up until about 12 years ago, when the builders went crazy and planted a bunch of infernal houses in my country wonderland. Now I'm stuck living in a town full of yuppie snobs driving their BMW SUV's like they own the whole damn road. Of course, up until all those houses came, we couldn't even get cable TV. Given the choice, I would rather see all these houses go away, the woods and the farms to come back, and you can take the high speed internet. I'll get DirecTV and go to the library when I need to get on line. Just my 2 cents... You and me both. And that is precisely what happened to my home. I've been here for forty years, and some 22 years ago, some ultra-luxury homes were built around me, cutting down the forest. We lost some of our privacy, and our taxes went up 100-fold from affordable but irritating, to unaffordable and facing tax foreclosure on our paid-for home.
Development sucks, big time. I wish they'd all go back to the cities where they belong.
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| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: It's like deja vu all over again "our taxes went up 100-fold from affordable but irritating, to unaffordable and facing tax foreclosure on our paid-for home."
Me too, me too.
It is, in a nutshell, sad and sickening... | |
| | | | 9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | Re: It's like deja vu all over again The question is, "how do we stop these criminals from wiping out the most fundamental right in America--the right to be safe on our own land?" | |
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| | It was a luxury, but ... As the informational age moves forward the cost of technology comes down. The days of spending >$400 for a computer to do most things that could benefit the household can greatly benefit from have a robust connection.
With that said, I do NOT think broadband (or any Internet access) is a utility, nor as a result of such a classification be the burden of the society to insure everyone has it. If broadband (or any Internet access) is a utility in classification with the burden that everyone should have it, then one forces said society to pay for all the accommodating consequences that result therein.
Next I'll be asked to pay for someone's Internet, their PC, and their music downloads because they are too busy paying only a fraction of their kids education and all of the Budweiser beer. | |
| | | In todays life YES If you could use the internet to turn on the lights and start cook, dinner,food ordering,pay,bills since the price of stamps going up (soon they will put a tax on are inetnet access for the USPS) is necessary to have broadband | |
| | shimonmorPremium
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | Re: In todays life YES said by cybercrimes:If you could use the internet to turn on the lights and start cook, dinner,food ordering,pay,bills since the price of stamps going up (soon they will put a tax on are inetnet access for the USPS) is necessary to have broadband Those are things you can accomplish by more conventional means. It's not like you need broadband to cook or turn on your lights. And if you need a computer to turn on your lights then I say to you: "get off your lazy arse and flick the light switch!!" Geez. | |
| | | | | Re: In todays life YES in the future it will be necessary i dont use the internet to cook or to turn on the light but if you work late and you get home before your wife does or if your on vacation you could turn on things to make it look like your home | |
| | |  Michieru2zzz zzz zzzPremium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Let's put this in easy terms.
Broadband is required for business, so for them it's a utility.
Broadband is not required for consumers, so for them it's a luxury.
If you work at home and your job requires you to have a broadband connection that still falls under the business category. No offense but all of us who where born before the internet was created could live just fine without it. Everything you do on the internet can be done other ways.
It all varies between each individual and what there tasks are, but I don't see why everyone has to pay extra just because you want a fast internet connection.
Broadband = faster connection, nothing more, nothing less. | |
| | | | rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: In todays life YES said by Michieru2:It all varies between each individual and what there tasks are, but I don't see why everyone has to pay extra just because you want a fast internet connection. Broadband = faster connection, nothing more, nothing less. This already happens whether you like it or not. You pay extra service fees above cost and possibly taxes on your current service so your servicing company can expand to new areas and develop future technologies. Its a simple fact that this happens other wise companies wouldn't stay in business or would become stagnant with no grow potential.
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shimonmorPremium
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | Luxurious Broadband If it's a utility I should inform most of my friends and neighbors because how are they surviving without this much needed utility? How do they get by in life?
Granted you can argue that no one "needs" electricity or telephone service or garbage pickup. They are all luxuries. I'm sure there are numerous places on this earth where people are living just fine without running water and television.
But, we need to draw a line somewhere and I think that in today's day and age, broadband is NOT a utility (yet).
There are many viable alternatives...most notably, dialup, and more expensively, satellite. And furthermore, there are A LOT of people who still don't have or use computers (and they all have electricity and telephones and running water). I classify broadband along with television. It's a luxury.
Sure you can claim that some businesses NEED broadband to survive or some person works at home and NEEDS broadband. Just as someone in the entertainment industry may need TV. That doesn't make it a utility. I need certain tools to accomplish my job but those tools aren't classified as utilities.
If you need broadband...you can get. But there is no "universal" need for broadband.
When I lose electricity, I have no lights, I have no refrigeration (so food goes bad), I have NO water (I'm on a water pump) so I can't flush the toilet or take a shower or wash my hands or drink (unless I have water saved up), and I have no heat. In essence I'm living in the 1800's without the benefit of knowing how to get by easily in the 1800's. (Thankfully, I have a back-up generator since we can loose power for days).
When I loose broadband, I say "darn" and then pick up a book or go work on a project in the garage or (last resort) have a conversation with the wife.
Lots of people demand lots of rights these days but broadband ain't one of them! | |
|  Greg_ZPremium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Depends on the person you ask. Luxury, due to not needed to run your life. Electricity, Water, shelter are necessary. Food is necessary. Broadband is not, due to it is neither a Utility or necessity to get through your life.
Does it belong anywhere in Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_h···of_needs
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One man's customer loyalty is another man's misguided arrogance. | |
| | 9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | Re: Depends on the person you ask. said by Greg_Z:Luxury, due to not needed to run your life. Electricity, Water, shelter are necessary. Food is necessary. Broadband is not, due to it is neither a Utility or necessity to get through your life. Does it belong anywhere in Maslow's hierarchy of needs? » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_h···of_needs Given that man has existed for some 60,000 years without electricity, I would say electricity is NOT a necessity for survival. While it may have a beneficial impact on our comfort, through central heating, after dark lighting and communications via radio/telephone, it is by no means required to sustain life.
Shelter and food are the only necessities (that and freedom from tyranny) for the individual human to pursue an existance. It is a shame these things are taxes the most heavily, too, of all things we must pay tax on. I don't appreciate that six months of my earnings goes to property tax.
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Take care,
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Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: »www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
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|
 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4
 ·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Becoming a Necessary Utility Internet is definitely becoming a utility on par with telephone for residential use.
When your power and gas utilites tell you to change your account on their web page and have reduced the number of people handling telephone requests ...
When the phone company is doing the same thing and telling you to get "411" / "192" service from their internet site ...
When your governments are telling you that full information is available on their web site and that they can't service you by telephone except for a limited few hours every day...
When TV stations and newspapers are telling you to go to their web site for the full story ...
These things are telling us that internet is on a par or even more essential than a telephone.
Now, the fact that the web designers for these sites are making them SO content rich that surfing them on dialup is as bad as being put on hold ("Your call will be answered in the order in which it was received") then broadband with speeds of at least 4 to 5 times that of dialup is quickly following suit. | |
| | | | Re: Becoming a Necessary Utility Since the only thing you can count on are death and taxes - It is interesting that the IRS wants you to file online.
Tax forms were available from the post office and libraries, but now are exclusively on IRS.gov. | |
| | | 9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | Re: Becoming a Necessary Utility said by averagedude:Since the only thing you can count on are death and taxes - It is interesting that the IRS wants you to file online. Tax forms were available from the post office and libraries, but now are exclusively on IRS.gov. I guess that means the only people filing will be people with internet and computers then.
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Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: »www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com/auctions.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com
'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
Stereo Feed! | |
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| | Tripping the Raising Awareness Alarm Yes here were go again by the leftwingerreports.com trying to raise awareness again.
First of all dump the Orwellian redefinition of terms. It is not luxury vs. utility It socialism vs capitalism. Utilities are often private companies and even so have the right to cut off non-paying customers this goes for electricity phones and all other utilities. I also find disingenuous to call it a rural vs. since many of the complainers are urban yuppies with broadband access.
What were have here is a myopic group of liberal activist who hate private enterprise and with to turn the internet to a welfare state. This wills in turn increase political power for the left by making more people dependant on the state.
There is a fallacy at play. The author hides behind rural Schools and Hospitals. Like most liberals they can only think of the now and today. Rural schools have survived very well without the internet for over a hundred years. Adding the Internet will not make things better. In fact it can make thing worst by gobbling up valuable resource that can be better use like attracting more doctors to rural areas. This also goes for the economic rational for socialized internet. Worst it would require a new tax which steals resources that can be better used. There is no proof bringing in socialized internet alone will bring economic growth to a community | |
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See 8 replies to this post | |
| | Actually it's a utility for me Without internet access can't pay my bills and do my on-line banking.
I pay my Mortgage,ISP,Power utility,phone bill,car-loan etc.
I haven't bought a stamp in 2 years.
Without internet I can't keep track of my stocks or trade my stocks. I can't order my Netflix movies.
The list goes on and on. So yes its a utility for me. maybe not for my neighbor. but definitely for me. | |
| | bbenso1
join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD | Re: Actually it's a utility for me said by Safemaster:Without internet access can't pay my bills and do my on-line banking. Yes you can pay your bills and do your banking. You just have to buy stamps and drive to the bank instead of sitting on your butt in front of your computer.
said by Safemaster:I pay my Mortgage,ISP,Power utility,phone bill,car-loan etc. I haven't bought a stamp in 2 years. You do currently pay them online, but you don't HAVE TO pay them online. I can assure you that every company that receives your online payments would be just as happy to receive your check from the USPS every month.
said by Safemaster:Without internet I can't keep track of my stocks or trade my stocks. I can't order my Netflix movies. Yes, you can trade and keep track of your stocks. You just have to call your broker to get the information. Of course you can't order your Netflix movies since Netflix was created specifically for internet use, but you could drive to your local video store and rent them.
Every example you listed above simply shows that internet access is a luxury. You can do every one of the things you listed without internet access. You can just do it MORE EASILY with access. That, sir, makes it a luxury. | |
| | | | | Re: Actually it's a utility for me I would say that, if you have a VoIP phone that uses your broadband, then yes, it is a utility just like a regular telephone.
Now, whether or not the telephone you are using is POTS or VoIP, and whether the VoIP should be considered a luxury versus a regular telephone, is also in question.
ADditionally, if using VoIP to make long-distance calls, it can be compared to a standard long-distance company. Is that a necessity or not? If the VoIP calls cost less, how can it be technically called a luxury? | |
| | | | | | Re: Actually it's a utility for me It is technologically not feasable to have Voip without internet, however you can still get regular phone. If you can get broadband you have Voip available. If you can't get broadband then Voip is not available. If Voip is not availabe you have a basic POTS line. You know what just forget it that post was ridiculous and you know it. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Actually it's a utility for me The question here is: Is broadband a luxury or utility.
While it is possible to have voip without internet (Line-powered voice. basically this is a regular tone until it reaches the dslam, then its voip until whatever the next handoff is). So that really isnt what we're discussing anyway.
If ther internet is the channel through which a lower-cost equivalent of long distance and local calling can be had, then I would say it is just as much a "utility" as a regular POTS line. The only difference is the added benefit of the internet.
The only way our government would NOT consider the internet vital to all of its citizens is if it is planning on moving the country lower on the technological evolutionary scale compared to others.
I'd say the internet is *not* a necessity, unless you cant afford regular phone service and a voip offering is cheaper. I doubt that.
Anyway, we shouldnt be comparing the internet to telephone service. Its by far a more advanced and useful tool than the telephone could ever hope to be. It is a utility of a different category alltogether, one which we don't have a "slot" to categorize it into yet. | |
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| | | | I see. So I suppose we really don't need electricity as a utility either. Watching television isn't a necessity. Neither is using the computer. You don't need it for heating because you can just start a fire to cook food or heat up water. Don't need air conditioning. Just open a windows. Cold? Put on a sweater. See a few years ago that was the thinking, but things change.
Not too terribly long ago your argument could apply to just about every utility.
Water - What? Too lazy to walk to the well or creek?
Telephone - No need for it. Mail and the telegraph work fine.
Sewage or garbage - Dig a hole or just take it to the city dump.
What you are forgetting is the Internet is fast becoming (if not already is) the greatest source of information ever available. Much of that information is considered in the public interest to be made available. Most local governments post important info on the web. Most school students access the web because it's like a giant encyclopedia. Most businesses depend on the Internet to run their operations smoothly.
Times change, and use of the Internet infrastructure is fast becoming utilitarian for many, many people. | |
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| | Not a necessity yet... Broadband is not a necessity. Maybe sometime down the line it may be, but that time is not now. | |
| | bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Not a necessity yet... said by Cleric4:Broadband is not a necessity. Maybe sometime down the line it may be, but that time is not now. And the discussion should have stopped with this excellent and to the point post...
Broadband, while not yet a necessity, will be one in the near future... So the best time to visit this debate is in two or three years.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
|
 woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
1 edit | hmmmm....... In some rural areas I can see it as an necessity for distance learning....medical......farming data....and so on, in a urban setting to me it's more of a luxury....JMT:)
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BlooMe
fixed a spelling error | |
| | | Necessary Utility Being part of the education system I think its a something that will put a students way ahead in today's time. Can a student do without broadband yes. Will having it put them way ahead YES.
In rural communities broadband can shrink the knowledge gap that kids will have through less exposure to certain things. | |
|  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | A luxury? If it's not a necessity? Then neither are phones or cars for the most part. My ancestors that lived 100 or more years ago( or less in other cases ) didn't have phones, cars, electricity or running water and they obviously made it through life ok. At one time I'm sure all these things were considered "luxuries" when they were new. | |
| |  mikef1Mike
join:2004-10-28
Littlestown, PA | Re: A luxury? said by BF69:If it's not a necessity? Then neither are phones or cars for the most part. My ancestors that lived 100 or more years ago( or less in other cases ) didn't have phones, cars, electricity or running water and they obviously made it through life ok. At one time I'm sure all these things were considered "luxuries" when they were new. Actually none of it is a necessity. If one chooses to he could live without phones, cars, electricity or running water. It is possible now, like you said about your ancestors. Heck, there are probably millions of people living that way right now around the world.
What we seem to call necessity is just living a better, easier lifestyle. How much better can you live with running water than without? With electricity than without? A phone doesn’t sound like a big deal until you have a fire or some sort of medical emergency, then its huge. Phone also gives you dialup. With cars it really depends where you live and work. Transportation is a better term.
So does broadband improve your lifestyle, sure. Is it on the same level as running water, electricity, and transportation? I don’t think so.
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mike
HouseOfMike | |
| | | 9143930615,000 Watts of Bass Power
join:2002-10-16
New Milford, CT | Re: A luxury? said by mikef1:Actually none of it is a necessity. If one chooses to he could live without phones, cars, electricity or running water. It is possible now, like you said about your ancestors. Heck, there are probably millions of people living that way right now around the world. In some countries, but in the land of the supposed Free, try living like our ancestors did and raising children and see how fast the state will come to take away your children and condemn your home and take you to prison.
It seems that the government that has taken over the US has a dim view of alternative INDEPENDANT lifestyles.
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Take care,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss
Hear my Kurzweil Creations at: »www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com/auctions.htm
'»www.mwcomms.com
'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com
Stereo Feed! | |
|
| | Commodity broadband is simply a commodity.
It certainly isn't a necessity by any stretch, though many on this site would say otherwise.
Fact is a majority of people still live their lives without owning a computer and they manage to survive.  | |
|  maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| Internet is a Utility, broadband is not. I would want to state that Internet Access has become a utility. Even on dial-up you can do the most needed things, which is surf to websites to get certain information, and to communicate with others via e-mail, which is what most people with access do on a daily basis.
However, I do feel that 56k (and in most cases not even 30k) is really becoming out of date, and I think we have the technology to give the entire country access through regular phonelines regardless of the distance to the CO at a speed of 128 kbit/s up and down, while not taking up a phone line.
Not to mention, a 128 kbit/s service to the entire nation will also help things like silent alarms, medical alert buttons for the elderly and handicapped, access to services like church radio for those who cannot travel to the local church any longer (64 kbps will make a nice radio station), public service announcements, and even farmers who can check their stables to see if their cows have been milked by the machines already while being on vacation in florida.
There is so much potential for an connected America. And I think "smallband" connections like 128 kbps should be available to everyone for about $15 a month, and broadband as a luxury and whereever technological possible.
I believe ISDN/IDSL type networks aren't that expensive to deploy, and I think they can reach 95% of houses, including farms, with that technology. The rest can get access by satellite. Which, of course, is already available but notoriously unreliable and expensive.
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The Republican Party is a party of BAD ideas. The Democratic Party is a party of NO ideas. Every now and then a Republican stands up in congress and says: "I got a really BAD idea!", to which a Democrat reponds with: "And I can make it shittier!" | |
| | | | Re: Internet is a Utility, broadband is not. Broadband is required to process daily transactions in my household. My children have to use it in order to do their interactive lessons from school at home. Broadband is a required communication utility just like the any other phone.
More of a required utility then cable tv and satellite. | |
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