  dr3yec
join:2002-12-19 00000 | Very true! I watch nothing but digital. Another reason I havnt had cable in years. Just couldnt deal with analog. | |
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 |  Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22 Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Very true! most people that have cable should be ok but they may need a digital box as the cable co move more stuff to it. But they need to stop moving channels that used to be on the analog cable to digital cable lineups that have other channels that you don't want to pay more for. | |
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 |  |  b10010011 Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07 Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Very true! said by Joe12345678 :most people that have cable should be ok but they may need a digital box as the cable co move more stuff to it. But they need to stop moving channels that used to be on the analog cable to digital cable lineups that have other channels that you don't want to pay more for. Interesting to note, the cable companies are not required to change to all digital. The great digital TV switch only applies to over the air television broadcasts.
Cable companies are just using this as a way to gouge even more money out of subscribers.  | |
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 |  |  |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Very true! yes, but cable companies WANT to change to all digital, as it frees up additional bandwidth (analog signals use much more b/w). Right now, I believe the FCC is preventing the cablecos from transitioning to all digital (until the official transition) so people that don't want to use a cable box can still get the basic tier by connecting directly to their old, analog TVs. | |
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 |  |   Corehhi
join:2002-01-28 Bluffton, SC
1 edit | What makes you think the cable companies aren't going to keep transmitting in analog? I'm sure mine will. Up to this year digital cable was a $59 a month upgrade and it included no local channels. I had a cable person call up to try and up sell me. She actually said"you don't even spend $100 a month on cable and internet." I guess they think everyone should pay at least $100 a month? LOL. BTW My phone, Internet and cable are a monopoly where I live. 3 meg connection other choice is buy a T1. | |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| said by dr3yec :I watch nothing but digital. Another reason I havnt had cable in years. Just couldnt deal with analog. This is why most people don't know WTH this whole transition to digital means. You don't have to have a digital television per se in order to be able to pick up the signals come 2009. If you have a cable box from either the cable co. or satellite, then the settop box they gave you is already digital. Cable & sat stopped distributing analog settop boxes years ago. The only folks who will be adversely affected come 2009 are the people out in the sticks still watching TV with the rabbit ears and the Radio Shack antennas on their roof tops and the elderly/clueless who are still renting a telephone from Ma Bell for the last 40 yrs. -- The Toll
Let's Go Flyers!
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  LiamJunket Premium join:2002-03-03 Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
4 edits | Radio shack has good Q&A and links for digital conversion »www.radioshack.com/uc/index.jsp?···dtv.html
»www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/r···tion.pdf
»www.dtv.gov/
Everyone can apply for 2 free $40 coupons towards the purchase of converter boxes beginning Jan 1, 2008. I have read that these boxes will mostly likely be had for approx $60 or a little less. LG has announced a $60 version. Here is the info: »www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html »www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/
Starting January 1, 2008, all U.S. households will be eligible to request up to two coupons, worth $40 each, to be used toward the purchase of up to two, digital-to-analog converter boxes. For more details on the federal regulations, including the budget information, please the DTV Converter Box Coupon Program Rules. » www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/rules.html You can apply on the web or by phone:
For more information on the Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Coupon Program, visit the NTIAs website at www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon, or call 1-888-388-2009 (voice) or 1-877-530-2634 (TTY). You can apply online for the coupons at this address: »https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx
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 |   tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: Radio shack has good Q&A and links for digital conversion That is a great link. However from my own experience - see other post in this forum it does not capture the total impact of what is going on both with over the air broadcast and TV industry in general.
I think there are largely two groups of folks out there. Those who are completely unaware and those who know about the change and are trying to figure out impact.
For the first group not sure what if anything can be done. Transition has been planned for years, and date has been pushed out. So if you haven't heard about it by now either you are not affected or you will become aware on Feb 17 2009.
For the second group the Internet is key to understanding totality of change. While one could narrowly focus on the change from analog to digital the transition of much bigger then that. Everything about TV is changing from how it is received, how it is displayed and how programs/movies are distributed/stored.
There are a lot of moving parts. Understanding them all is hard work.
/tom | |
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 |  |   LiamJunket Premium join:2002-03-03 Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Radio shack has good Q&A and links for digital conversion said by tschmidt :That is a great link. However from my own experience - see other post in this forum it does not capture the total impact of what is going on both with over the air broadcast and TV industry in general. I think there are largely two groups of folks out there. Those who are completely unaware and those who know about the change and are trying to figure out impact. For the first group not sure what if anything can be done. Transition has been planned for years, and date has been pushed out. So if you haven't heard about it by now either you are not affected or you will become aware on Feb 17 2009. /tom I think some of that 1st group(probably mostly elderly and not on internet at all) can be addressed by family and friends. My plus 80 yr old parents have cable TV on the main TV in the house. But they have 2 old portable TVs in other rooms that just get over the air analog signals. I will take care of getting them the vouchers and buying the 2 digital/analog converter boxes for them. I suspect many of those in the 1st group you mentioned will get similar assistance. -- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page
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 |  tbone2006
join:2006-07-22 Abilene, TX
| I called the 888 number this morning and it is quick and painless. It is all automated you give your name and address. They said the converters are not in stores yet so I will get my coupon in late February. You press the number pad for how many coupons you want 1-2 and they ask if you have sat. or cable. | |
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·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Radio shack has good Q&A and links for digital conversion said by tbone2006 :I called the 888 number this morning and it is quick and painless. It is all automated you give your name and address. They said the converters are not in stores yet so I will get my coupon in late February. You press the number pad for how many coupons you want 1-2 and they ask if you have sat. or cable. Thanks for checking that out. Sounds like it started up right on schedule.
P.S> You can apply for the coupons online at this address: »https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx
-- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page
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 |  garmst
join:2000-09-17 New York, NY | Re: People will be left out They have a choice:
1. Get Satellite.
2. Enjoy the two stations that are left.
3. Move to the big city.
4. Read more books.
You aren't "owed" television. | |
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 |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: People will be left out You forgot:
5. Buy a new TV.
6. Use the coupon to buy a converter.
Which one is the most cost effective to maintain the current level of service? I'm going to put my money of the converter. | |
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join:2004-06-21 Beverly Hills, CA
| Re: People will be left out said by openbox9 :You forgot: 5. Buy a new TV. 6. Use the coupon to buy a converter. Which one is the most cost effective to maintain the current level of service? I'm going to put my money of the converter. Such BS! 
You can buy a converter box for your old TV or buy a new TV which will come with digital tuning capabilities.
You don't need a converter box for a *new* TV built after March 1, 2007 and you don't need a *new* TV if you purchased a converter box for your old analog TV. -- "Time does not actually exist beyond an artificial measure we create in our minds to separate events we experience into blocks that are easier to reference instead of as a whole single event that just happens and continues happening" - evolvedant | |
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 |  |  |  |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: People will be left out BS? I didn't say you need a new TV and a converter. I was adding choices 5 and 6 to garmst's post. Don't jump to flaming without reading the thread. | |
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join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Re: People will be left out said by jap :Reminder: the change is driven by a public policy initiative obstensibly, at least, bound to best serve the people. If it leaves a notable percentage of people without service how is that successful policy? Because public policy has decided there are better uses for this spectrum, than to continue to use it for analog TV channels (at the huge expense, spectrum-wise, of 6 MHz for just one, standard-def, video signal) for the small percentage of citizens that still receive them.
This part of the low-UHF spectrum is "crown jewel"stuff. It penetrates buildings well, and provides very good coverage. Public policy has decided it's more needed for things like first-responder public safety workers, and wireless broadband.
But I'm sure the usual crowd of liberal-arts major "activists" will start screaming about this when the time is right, and they figure they can get the most PR for doing so. I'm sure many of these will be "activists" who are also screaming about how the government isn't doing anything about fixing the problem that prevented firefighter and police radios from working inside the World Trade Center. They're too technically ignorant to get the connection; what's more, they don't care that they are ... | |
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| Re: People will be left out said by PDXPLT :Because public policy has decided there are better uses for this spectrum, than to continue to use it for analog TV channels Erm, a small logic loop that. Defending an event as good or bad because it happened? Identical to "all people are good (or bad) because they exist."
for the small percentage of citizens that still receive them (analogue). Did you read the article? Rather large percentage isn't prepared, nobody knows what it'll be 6 months from now, and you've spun 'loss of service' into 'getting reception' as if they are the same thing. Again, lacks logic regarding the policy decision ... as well as observation of what you are replying to.
But I'm sure the usual crowd of liberal-arts major "activists" will start screaming about this when the time is right, and they figure they can get the most PR for doing so. I'm sure many of these will be "activists" who are also screaming about how the government isn't doing anything about fixing the problem that prevented firefighter and police radios from working inside the World Trade Center. They're too technically ignorant to get the connection; what's more, they don't care that they are ... [yawn] So you're already predisposed not only on the topic but also the politics & practices of all who have, or may in furture, assess it differently. No wonder you make no sense: you're only concerned with your unshakable rightness.
You're reply stinks of 'devil could care they can all go to hell'. Can't make a worthy eval of any policy with that posture. | |
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 |  |   captnhook
join:2001-02-20 NY
| said by garmst :... You aren't "owed" television. not "owed" but the airwaves still are the "public airwaves". We the citizens of the United States remain the owners of said airwaves and the FCC sells licenses to broadcasters and others to be able to use our radio spectrum. Saying that it should be our governments responsibility to include requirements for broadcasters to maintain these "repeaters" in the new digital spectrum so those who live in currently covered areas continue to receive OTA broadcasts as the switch is made to digital. | |
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 |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by priller :I have family in rural Pennsylvania. There is no cable service. They get 4 analog stations over the air. Two of these stations are via a transponder on the mountain. As I understand it, these transponders will not be converted to DTV. So, they are going to be left with 2 stations, maybe. This $40 coupon is nonsense. The prices of the converter boxes are just going to be jacked up by $40. This a bad situation that was not thought out by the FCC ... but what is. The almighty $$$$ has won again and left the "little people" SOL. Sorry for your litle people but time marches on. Should broadcast stil be i black and white because it's unfair to to the 5 guys left with a black and white TV?
This thing has been planed for over a dozens years. I first rememebr hearing about this transition before my son was born and he's 12. In fact the conversion date has already changed twice. You originally should have been "screwed" over 6-7 years ago. Consdier yourself lucky. | |
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join:2007-06-11 Narberth, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: People will be left out said by BF69 :Sorry for your litle people but time marches on. Should broadcast stil be i black and white because it's unfair to to the 5 guys left with a black and white TV? Black & White TV's still display color broadcasts! | |
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 |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| said by priller :I have family in rural Pennsylvania. There is no cable service. So do I (except in Oregon, not PA). I get 100's of channels over my DBS satellite dish. 'sounds like you missed the perfect chance for the ideal Xmas gift.  | |
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| Re: People will be left out said by PDXPLT :said by priller :I have family in rural Pennsylvania. There is no cable service. So do I (except in Oregon, not PA). Sheesh. You are on a mission aren't you. Your profile shows " >www.chamberscable.com/cable.html">Chambers Cable Service and you've made a review of same. Here is NH we call that lying. | |
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join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
3 edits | Re: People will be left out said by jap :You are on a mission aren't you. Your profile shows " >www.chamberscable.com/cable.html">Chambers Cable Service and you've made a review of same. Here is NH we call that lying. Be careful who you call a lier, bro. I have two homes; Chambers cable serves the weekend place. There's never been any cable service at the main house, just DBS. And I don't get service at the weekend place from Chambers anymore, either. | |
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| Re: People will be left out said by PDXPLT Be careful who you call a lier, bro. I have two homes; Chambers cable serves the weekend place.[/BQUOTE :Appologies. The word is too strong for this forum dialog. My bad. It's the insensitive, cavalier dismissal of anyone who holds different views on the transition that annoys. Particularly so when pretending to be in the same (unknowable) delemma as a family is in central PA. BTW, you can't be my bro because he lives in Tigard. His ex's family lives in Banks but her bro rents a small house with another guy so you couldn't be my ex-bro-in-law either. We might be more distantly related though.  | |
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 |  tbone2006
join:2006-07-22 Abilene, TX
| Re: Riots and Blood in the Streets I think once the information starts getting out about this, after the elections, you will see some serious backlash from the lower income areas. They will show some older person on the news crying about not being able to watch tv. I almost expect somebody from the NAACP out protesting. | |
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 |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Riots and Blood in the Streets said by tbone2006 :... you will see some serious backlash from the lower income areas. It really baffles me that "poor" people in this country can afford luxuries like television, especially when compared to the truly poor people outside of the USA who live on the streets and have nothing. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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 |  |  |   tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH
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| Re: Riots and Blood in the Streets said by pnh102 :said by tbone2006 :... you will see some serious backlash from the lower income areas. especially when compared to the truly poor people outside of the USA who live on the streets and have nothing. Comparison between our culture and others is not relevant. Being poor is relative to the local economy. If no one around you has more then you do not perceive yourself as being poor, if on the other hand everyone has more then you you feel poor. Being poor in other societies also means expected life expectancy is less then half of what we take for normal.
The real issue is not so much TV for TVs sake but integrating all strata of society into to the mainstream. The more cutoff from the mainstream you are the harder it is to improve your situation in life.
The tricky balance is how best to do so.
/tom | |
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 |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :Ok, so maybe the transition won't be that bad hahahahahahaha! good one.
my bet is it's going to be a minor disaster politically. Probably not so much in a meaningful sense, but you know how peoples love them some TV. | |
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·Comcast
| Re: Riots and Blood in the Streets said by nasadude :my bet is it's going to be a minor disaster politically. I agree. I don't think we've ever done such a transition in this country before, ever. The only event that I think comes close to this was the mandatory long distance provider selection that had to be done in 1984. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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  tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
2 edits | Experience doing DTV Research Ive been trying to stay on top of this issue as we are in a fringe region and currently use over the air (OTA) antenna. Even being rather diligent I find the task daunting. Besides the 2009 transition a lot of other stuff is changing in the TV world.
I have been aware of the 2/17/2009 date for a long time but until recently (last night actually) was not aware that in addition to analog going away some DTV stations will move to different channels. This is because once simulcast analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) is no longer required the freed up analog channels become available. After transition OTA TV will use channels 2-51 (VHF/UHF). Channels 52 and above will be used for other purposes. That has profound impact on me because currently all DTV station are UHF. Living in southern NH we get reception from both MA (Boston) and local NH stations. We use a rotor to select stations. That is inconvenient with multiple TVs and with advent of DTV cannot tune to least snow, either get a picture or not.
I planned on installing dual UHF antennas eliminating need for rotor. That plan is not feasible knowing I need both VHF and UHF capability.
Cable and Satellite are possible options but I have not heard many positive reports about Cables delivery of DTV. Cablecos are bandwidth challenged and in trying to squeeze as many channels as possible overly compress video creating distracting artifacts. In addition for limited amount of TV we watch both are rather expensive. Wouldnt mind paying monthly fee if it eliminated commercials but still have to deal with a significant portion of each show given over to commercials unless we record program. Lastly it means having a big Set-top-Box at each location.
Purchased a new desktop for my daughter that includes a DTV/FM tuner. Did this specifically to experiment with DTV reception in advance of change over. At first though we were unable to receive any DTV OTA until we realized the new card was very different from old one. It has separate analog and digital tuners. Once we figured that out were surprised being able to receive some DTV OTA stations.
We have old CRT based TVs so now is a good time to replace them with a flat panel TVs. That market is also in transition. Prices are falling; resolutions and refresh rates are increasing. In addition the A/V world seems to be standardizing on HDMI as preferred interconnect. This purchase is also taking a lot of time to research.
The benefit of high resolution TVs cannot be fully exploited with current NTSC DVD players/recorders. Unfortunately there is a format war going on for next generation DVD between HD-DVD and BluRay. That is unfortunate.
So for someone to be an educated TV customer they need to:
1)Understand impact of 2/17/2009 analog OTA go dark date. 2)Understand what if anything Cable provider will do (they too would like to get rid of analog). 3)Investigate possibility of combining OTA with Cable or Sat 4)Investigate getting converter box or new TV(s). 5)Investigate getting new DVD player to take advantage of High Defination TV.
That is a lot to do. As with any conversion of this magnitude there will be lots of hiccups along the way.
fixed a bunch of typos /Tom | |
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 |   major marco Res Firma Mitescere Nescit Premium join:2003-02-13 Stepford, CA clubs:
| Re: Experience doing DTV Research said by tschmidt :Ive been trying to stay on top of this issue as we are in a fringe region and currently use over the air (OTA) antenna. Even being rather diligent I find the task daunting. Besides the 2009 transition a lot of other stuff is changing in the TV world. What - You mean Hillsborough County isn't the center of the known universe??  -- The Toll
Let's Go Flyers!
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  SkyBlue
join:2007-03-31
| This is stupid
Only those folks who don't want to pay for cable tv or even basic cable 15 channels.
In other words those with rabbit ears or tails will be in trouble.
But FCC will grant them $40.00 coupons to help offset the cost of the converter box.
This is really pointless.
I can care less.
Doesn't effect me. | |
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  gomer1701ems
join:2001-08-23 Minneapolis, MN
| It's a Tuesday February 17, 2009 is a Tuesday. Anybody remember "Star Trek: Generations"? The Medical staff, tractor beam, and photon torpedeos were all going to arrive/be installed on a Tuesday. How fitting that the federal government picks the same day, eh? -- "Don't argue with stupid people; they will beat you with experience." | |
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  rwhubert Bipolar Athlon Premium join:2002-07-26 Atlanta, GA
·CYBERONIC INTERNET..
| Digital Shmigital Not stated in the article, but mandatory "digital transition" applies only to analog broadcast television. Radio stations are now broadcasting in "HD" but have no plans to switch off their analog trasmitters, not now, not ever.
I have only analog broadcast tv reception and do not plan to switch to digital. Ergo, when analog broadcast tv goes black, I will use the internet to get it. I refuse to be force-fed any technology that I don't want. My old 32" tube will make a nice coffee table. | |
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 |  scooper
join:2000-07-11 Youngsville, NC | Re: Digital Shmigital That's good that you have a plan for it, because without the Digital convertor coupon box that's about all it will be good for.... | |
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 centsofhumor
join:2007-01-20 Two Rivers, WI
·Charter Pipeline
| Better be an improvement on digital by then... And better not be this annoying tiling problems (DVR btw), it screws up recordings. Thats why analog will always be better, then digital. Yes it may take up more bandwidth. Are we going to see anymore savings with almost all digital? Not likely  | |
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 |   AnonPoster
@fuse.net
| Re: No Coupon if you have cable or satellite Not True, "Starting January 1, 2008, all U.S. households will be eligible to request up to two coupons, worth $40 each, to be used toward the purchase of up to two, digital-to-analog converter boxes." If the coupons run out there is a contingency plan for OTA only households. | |
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 |  |   wcweaver Premium join:2002-02-22 Fort Myers, FL clubs:
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1 edit | Re: No Coupon if you have cable or satellite Quote AnonPoster Not True, "Starting January 1, 2008, all U.S. households will be eligible to request up to two coupons, worth $40 each, to be used toward the purchase of up to two, digital-to-analog converter boxes." If the coupons run out there is a contingency plan for OTA only households.
That is incorrect according to a quote from the NTIA website.
"Consumers requesting coupons from these contingent funds must self-certify to NTIA that they do not subscribe to cable, satellite or other pay television services."
So you will have to lie (commit perjury) to get the coupons if you have cable or satellite.
Here is a link to a sample application:
»www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/DTV_s···107b.pdf
I have edited this post to reflect that indeed starting Jan. 1, 2008, all U.S. households will be eligible to request up to two $40 coupons to be used toward the purchase of up to two, digital-to-analog converter boxes, while the initial $990 million allocated for the program is available. The coupons expire three months from issuance. If additional funds above the $990 million are needed then only households with no satellite or cable are eligible. The final rule was a change from the proposed rule. | |
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join:2000-07-11 Youngsville, NC
| Re: No Coupon if you have cable or satellite Yes - it basically comes down to the fact there is no practical way to do that certification.
So, if you're cable / DBS subscriber and want a coupon box or 2, plan your timing accordingly. I'd suggest waiting until the convertor coupon boxes are on the shelves, and then get your coupons and purchase - quickly. Since the coupons are only good for 90 days - I wouldn't wait around.
Also, there is nothing prohibiting you from buying additional coupon boxes - only that you can't get any more than 2 coupons per household. | |
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 |   tschmidt Premium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: $40 will Probably Buy One Be interesting to see how the converter coupon program works out.
Just for fun checked out Target, Radio Shack, Walmart for prices of low cost NTSC/ATSC TVs. For under $100 there are 13" CRT TVs, $100-200 buys a 20 CRT." LCDs are a little more expensive $200-300. I was surprised how many TVs in this price range are only NTSC. Folks buying one of those will be in for a rude awakening Feb 17 2009 if they rely on OTA. Unless TV is very new, special, or money is very tight I wonder how many folks will actually go through the hassle to get a converter box instead of just buying a new TV. I predict we see a lot of $40 off TV specials end of next year and early 2009.
Checked a few stats. 98% of the 115 million US households have TV, with average of 2.4 TVs each. Of households with TV 60% use Cable, 24% satellite, 12% OTA, some have more then one connection.
Percent of households that use OTA is probably under reported because it does not accurately reflect households that have Cable or Sat and have not paid to connect all TVs. Also there seems to be a growing trend to combine OTA local channels with Cable/Sat due to lower cost/better picture.
/tom
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 gower2352
join:2005-06-08 Weston, WV | ebay I am going to sell my converter coupons on Ebay!!! | |
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  Hehe
@ssa.gov | $40 If the converter is $60, I think I should just buy a new TV. Can the $40 be used twards a new TV? | |
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 |  scooper
join:2000-07-11 Youngsville, NC | Re: $40 No - only for the convertor box itself. If you want a new TV as your solution - pay whatever the retailer is asking. | |
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