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CA Gov Vetos Law Requiring Wireless Warrants
Courts Better Suited to Resolve 'Complex' Issues, Says Brown
California lawmakers recently took the interesting step of crafting a new law that would require law enforcement actually obtain a warrant before searching the mobile phones of suspects at the time of any arrest, after a U.S. Supreme Court ruling (Diaz v. California), ruled that such searches were legal. However, Wired notes that California Governor Jerry Brown is going to veto the law, siding against civil rights groups. "This measure would overturn a California Supreme Court decision that held that police officers can lawfully search the cell phones of people who they arrest," wrote the Governor. "The courts are better suited to resolve the complex and case-specific issues relating to constitutional search-and-seizures protections," he said.
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA

spewak

Premium Member

password please?

If they can figure out my unlock password, then have at it.
WernerSchutz
join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

WernerSchutz

Member

Re: password please?

Thanks to Israeli software, they do not have to.
Expand your moderator at work

hoipolloi
join:2011-10-05
Jersey City, NJ

hoipolloi to WernerSchutz

Member

to WernerSchutz

Re: password please?

Specifically: »www.cellebrite.com/

From the website:
UFED Ultimate provides access to deleted data inaccessible by logical methods:

Performs physical, logical, user password & file system extractions
Data extraction of existing, hidden and deleted data
iOS physical extraction, decoding & real-time decryption
Android extraction & decoding
BlackBerry decoding
GPS devices extraction & decoding
Forensically sound environment
Phone user lock code
Access to internal application data
Phone internal data including: IMSI history, past SIM cards used, past user lock code history
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Re: password please?

My data is encrypted, delete data will be highly unlikely to be recovered. I use custom rom which let me set it up the way I want it.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_ to hoipolloi

Premium Member

to hoipolloi
said by hoipolloi:

Specifically: »www.cellebrite.com/

From the website:

UFED Ultimate provides access to deleted data inaccessible by logical methods:

Performs physical, logical, user password & file system extractions
Data extraction of existing, hidden and deleted data
iOS physical extraction, decoding & real-time decryption
Android extraction & decoding
BlackBerry decoding
GPS devices extraction & decoding
Forensically sound environment
Phone user lock code
Access to internal application data
Phone internal data including: IMSI history, past SIM cards used, past user lock code history

this will lead to 2048-bit encryption could take care of that issue

BUCKEYECOM
@buckeyecom.net

BUCKEYECOM to WernerSchutz

Anon

to WernerSchutz
and most police departments are lucky if they know how to use cell phones let alone know how to crack the password.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 recommendation

fifty nine

Member

Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

This is just a sobering reminder that none of the establishment political parties value your privacy.

TheBionic
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium Member
join:2009-07-06
united state

1 recommendation

TheBionic

Premium Member

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

How true. While people who identify with one party or the other scream at each other and take to the streets, this is the kind of ruling that is being made. It's all going according to plan...eeeexxxxxcellent....
dagg
join:2001-03-25
Galt, CA

1 recommendation

dagg to fifty nine

Member

to fifty nine
the current state of the republican and democrat parties have boiled down to opposing sides of the same exact coin.

They look different only on the surface. dig deeper and you will find that both have turned into some sort of ugly conglomeration of what basically amounts to a single authoritarian party that keeps up the arguing for no other reason than to entertain the populace and keep the sheep busy by spouting empty rhetoric that means absolutely nothing.

been saying it for far to long now too....

HappyAnarchy
@iauq.com

HappyAnarchy

Anon

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

While I agree that the parties have the same problems, the differences are also real and part of the problem. When one party is fighting to lower our education standards, deny family/marriage rights for certain families, restrict women's rights and generally eviscerate welfare and safety net programs while constantly trying to erode the effectiveness of government, there is a real lesser evil. The fact that Dems aren't actually fighting for some of these things as their constituents actaully want them to is a very real problem, but at least they are not fighting against them as the Repubs do.

The problem is how to get both parties out and a reasonable alternative, without just letting one party run wild over things. It is a very real problem, voting for the lesser evil still ends up with things getting worse and worse, year after year.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

said by HappyAnarchy :

While I agree that the parties have the same problems, the differences are also real and part of the problem. When one party is ...

The miniscule differences between the parties is a product of marketing.

The dividing line that counts
separates those citizens who play the two-party-shill-game and those who opt out.

NV

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 recommendation

fifty nine to HappyAnarchy

Member

to HappyAnarchy
said by HappyAnarchy :

While I agree that the parties have the same problems, the differences are also real and part of the problem. When one party is fighting to lower our education standards, deny family/marriage rights for certain families, restrict women's rights and generally eviscerate welfare and safety net programs while constantly trying to erode the effectiveness of government, there is a real lesser evil. The fact that Dems aren't actually fighting for some of these things as their constituents actaully want them to is a very real problem, but at least they are not fighting against them as the Repubs do.

The problem is how to get both parties out and a reasonable alternative, without just letting one party run wild over things. It is a very real problem, voting for the lesser evil still ends up with things getting worse and worse, year after year.

Democrats are by no means the lesser of two evils.

They have a burning desire to disarm the populace. That alone makes them evil beyond belief.

Don't think they are pro education either. They are pro teachers union, and that's about it. The democrats constantly shoot down voucher programs and charter schools. These are programs that allow kids in failing districts to maybe have a chance at success. The democrats solution to failing schools is simply to increase taxes and pump more money into failing schools.
rdebay
join:2004-09-10
Boca Raton, FL

rdebay

Member

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

Long term analysis of voucher and charter programs haven't shown any improvement. Want education to work? Look what they do in Norway (or was it Finland)?
Disarm the populace? Red herring. Possession of weapons doesn't encourage or prevent political change. And the citizen soldier went out back when the bayoneted musket line obsoleted the Swiss pikeman. The closest thing to it that works is the reserve system created by the Prussians.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

said by rdebay:

Long term analysis of voucher and charter programs haven't shown any improvement.

Real Life analysis of Charter yields different result.

Three of my children attended my county's first charter school - during it's first seven years.

It's held an A rating every year, the only school I've heard of to do so.
It's had a disproportionately high number of students leave to enter the International Baccalaureate program.

It's used it's own board to set pro-student policies - that school boards lack the spine to set.

There are expectations for teachers, students and parents - such as:
A meaningful dress code (uniforms)
No tolerance of cursing or disrespect
Parental involvement in school activities and maintenance
No grading curve
No tenure (at this school) - either teach or leave

It isn't that voucher/charter programs haven't show improvement.
It's that the voucher/charter improvements haven't been shown.

Charter/vouchers trigger an automatic denial reflex
by those opposed to meaningful changes in education
and the media that collude with them.

The school above is a real threat to an established system.

NV

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·Consolidated Com..

spewak to dagg

Premium Member

to dagg
said by dagg:

keeps up the arguing for no other reason than to entertain the populace and keep the sheep busy by spouting empty rhetoric that means absolutely nothing.

been saying it for far to long now too....

And there is no shortage of sheep on both sides of the aisle!

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to fifty nine

MVM

to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

This is just a sobering reminder that none of the establishment political parties value your privacy.

The fact that it passed California legislature partially proves you wrong.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Dems and Reps believe in the power of the police state

said by cdru:

The fact that it passed California legislature partially proves you wrong.

There's a lot of truth in your point.

However, the differences between candidate Obama and President Obama illustrates how men in the top spots become whatever the hierarchy needs them to be.

I'll grant that Jerry Brown has been Gov before. Perhaps he was 'adjusted', before this last election.

NV

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

Calif has no overide veto capability for legislature ???

What I found strange was that the California legislature, according to the writer at link below, can't override the governors veto and has to wait 1 year before reintroducing the law. I thought all states allowed the legislature to override vetos if they had large enough majorities, and from my Google search Calif can too with a 2/3rds majority. But evidently not all state constitutions allow for this, but most do: »secure.wikimedia.org/wik ··· override

»www.jimhuntshow.com/jerr ··· l-phone/

Under California statehouse rules, neither Leno nor any other lawmaker may introduce the legislation for at least a year.

The Assembly approved the bill 70-0 and the state Senate, 32-4.

So, can the Calif legislature override this veto or not?
40757180 (banned)
join:2009-11-01

40757180 (banned)

Member

Re: Calif has no overide veto capability for legislature ???

said by FFH5:

What I found strange was that the California legislature, according to the writer at link below, can't override the governors veto and has to wait 1 year before reintroducing the law. I thought all states allowed the legislature to override vetos if they had large enough majorities, and from my Google search Calif can too with a 2/3rds majority. But evidently not all state constitutions allow for this, but most do: »secure.wikimedia.org/wik ··· override

»www.jimhuntshow.com/jerr ··· l-phone/

Under California statehouse rules, neither Leno nor any other lawmaker may introduce the legislation for at least a year.

The Assembly approved the bill 70-0 and the state Senate, 32-4.

So, can the Calif legislature override this veto or not?

Looks like technically they can.
Qreptiles
join:2005-07-20
Grants Pass, OR

Qreptiles to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Yes they can override the veto by 2/3 vote in both houses. But accoring to this artice the legislature just doesn't like to do it.
»www.californiaeminentdom ··· for-now/
quote:
In this respect, note that it is highly unusual for the legislature to override a veto. In fact, there has not been a successful veto override in California since July 1979, and there have only been a small handful of efforts to override a veto in the last decade.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Calif has no overide veto capability for legislature ???

said by Qreptiles:

Yes they can override the veto by 2/3 vote in both houses. But accoring to this artice the legislature just doesn't like to do it.
»www.californiaeminentdom ··· for-now/

quote:
In this respect, note that it is highly unusual for the legislature to override a veto. In fact, there has not been a successful veto override in California since July 1979, and there have only been a small handful of efforts to override a veto in the last decade.

Given by the margins the vote passed originally, I don't know why they wouldn't easily override the veto:
Assembly approved the bill 70-0 and the state Senate, 32-4.
Qreptiles
join:2005-07-20
Grants Pass, OR

Qreptiles

Member

Re: Calif has no overide veto capability for legislature ???

They could but I suspect that many of those that voted for it did so for show knowing that the gov would veto the bill. So they get their soundbyte.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Calif has no overide veto capability for legislature ???

First off, California is an incredible piece of crap state.

Second, you're correct in what you say, however, they also prove themselves to be COMPLETE and UTTER morons by NOT overriding the veto. To pass a bill with THAT large of a sweeping "pass" only proves to the people that they aren't an effective government and further errodes the confidence (if any) that the people have in government. Sooner or later the people will grow the balls and turn that state up on it's end.

Seriously.. when is California going to slide into the ocean? ... Vegas would be better served with an ocean view.

For full disclosure, I'm a native of CA, but left that miserable state for a reason.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

What's the difference?

If you are stopped and arrested for driving on a suspended license they don't have to get a warrant to search your car. Why would they have to get a warrant to search your phone after you are arrested?

The above statement does not mean that I approve the veto.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: What's the difference?

said by battleop:

If you are stopped and arrested for driving on a suspended license they don't have to get a warrant to search your car. Why would they have to get a warrant to search your phone after you are arrested?

The above statement does not mean that I approve the veto.

If you get stopped for driving with a suspended license, and your car gets towed, the police can inventory the contents of your car because they are towing it for safekeeping. Though anything found during an inventory would be admissible, it's not considered a search.

If they expect to find evidence in the car of the crime for which you were arrested, they may then search the car.

They may also conduct a Terry stop (frisk for weapons) of the reachable areas of your car while you are still in it.

None of those reasons should allow them to search the contents of your cellphone, but obviously the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.
averagedude
join:2002-01-30
San Diego, CA

1 edit

averagedude

Member

Re: What's the difference?

The issue is that "smart" phones with all ways on connection to the internet allows police access to all your "cloud" accounts.

Edit:
This is a really big issue.

I am sure I am not doing it justice by this analogy.
Where the police would need a search warrant to search your emails or bank accounts...they now have direct access to them via a simple driving infraction.

As I understand it...searching the cell phone was being used for possible drug dealers, but then as in many things it grew and grew.
In the old days before internet phones all the police could get was all the numbers you called.

Now, since everything is on the "cloud" (like gmail, hotmail...) the police are claiming there is no difference between the number on the phone and the associated "contacts list" on the cloud and by extension...that gives the police access to all your accounts.

Again, this is a huge issue that will only be settled by the courts, but until then "Every thing you say (including electronic format) or do will be used against you." As long as you have nothing to hide, then there isn't a problem now is there?

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

If you are stopped and arrested for driving on a suspended license they don't have to get a warrant to search your car. Why would they have to get a warrant to search your phone after you are arrested?

The above statement does not mean that I approve the veto.

What does your phone have to do with driving with a suspended license?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: What's the difference?

What does the pound of dope they find in the the trunk have to do with a suspended license as well?

Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA

Thaler

Premium Member

Re: What's the difference?

Does the DMV ship you the pound of dope when your license expires or something? I wasn't aware those two went hand-in-hand.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: What's the difference?

Exactly...
megatron266
Premium Member
join:2007-08-11
Miami, FL

megatron266 to battleop

Premium Member

to battleop
If you are stopped it is for a reason which they believe you committed an infraction or your car matches one that they are looking for.

If they have probable cause to search your vehicle or you waive that right then yes they can search your vehicle even more so if your license was suspended for DUI.

These days phones store information just like that of a computer. To search a computer they need a warrant so I believe the same would apply to a phone even more so that it is a communicaiton device.

••••
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray

Member

Hope and Change?

The Governor has a 30-year long track record of not supporting civil rights.

His veto should come as no surprise.

Not that it matters, considering Kentucky vs. King.
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

qworster

Member

Jerry Brown is SUCH a disappointment!

I'm becoming ashamed that I voted for him-though the alternative (Meg Whitman) was worse-at least I believed so at the time.

mech1164
I'll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ

mech1164

Member

Re: Jerry Brown is SUCH a disappointment!

said by qworster:

I'm becoming ashamed that I voted for him-though the alternative (Meg Whitman) was worse-at least I believed so at the time.

You know what he is like and you still voted for him. You thought Meg was eorse, bet ya wished you had that back.

I got a bridge to sell you....Cheap!
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

It amazes me...

I have to laugh at all the people who seem surprised at Gov. Brown aka Moonbeam Brown and his handling of California affairs. You were warned plus you had a previous work history with this guy that is infamous and yet you still voted him in. Apparently you didn't learn your lesson his first time around. Live with it folks...you made your bed....

•••

wickedsmilee
join:2004-01-02
Upland, CA

wickedsmilee

Member

More corruption to come?

The city I live in has FBI indictments, crooked cops, etc. A cop living 1 house away was arrested for RAPE and sentenced last month!

And now they can access people's lives via smart phones, and I'm supposed to think they're not going to manipulate that??

ctceo
Premium Member
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

ctceo

Premium Member

Sillyness

I like how they make this seem like a big public fiasco. Governors passing laws are irrelevant while under secret court orders.

They do this just to make good public face so that people don't start rebelling.

As for encryption, and unlock passwords...ALL irrelevant as they have master keys and software that renders it fairly useless if they don't work. Best case scenario is they have to spend a few hours hashing your data on a parallel computing environment to recover your password if they don't already have enough profile data to figure it out.

Makes me laugh nonetheless though.

••••••••••••