republican-creole
Search:  

 
 
   News
newer
story category CT to AT&T: You Need a Cable License
AT&T to CT: You Need Good Lawyers
(old news - 09:34AM Tuesday Oct 16 2007)
Tipped by pleekmo See Profile
AT&T has told communities that their U-Verse VDSL IPTV service technically isn't cable, so it isn't governed by franchise agreements. Towns and cities that challenge this assertion have traditionally been greeted with an AT&T lawsuit. Back in July, a federal court in Connecticut stated that franchise rules do, in fact, apply to U-Verse. Connecticut state regulators have now ordered AT&T to discontinue signing up new IPTV customers until they obtain a license for the service.

AT&T says they plan on filing a lawsuit today to try to reverse the ruling. In a statement e-mailed to us from AT&T, the company accuses the state of "protecting the state's cable TV monopoly" and violating the letter of the law:
Click for full size
The DPUC has ignored a new consumer-friendly law that took effect on Oct. 1 in Connecticut, An Act Concerning Certified Competitive Video Service, which lays out a series of consumer-friendly requirements that will be followed by any company wanting to enter the marketplace to compete with incumbent cable providers. The law was intended to open up the market for video services in Connecticut by making it simple for new video providers like AT&T to enter the market
Both AT&T and Verizon have spent the last few years waging political war on traditional franchise agreements, and have convinced more than a dozen states -- including Connecticut -- to pass state-level franchise laws under the promise that the result would be lower TV costs (that hasn't happened).

That hasn't happened because the primary goal of these usually phone-company-written laws is not to reduce prices (yes, I know that's very shocking). The goal to eliminate build-out requirements so the companies can selectively deploy next-generation technology to only the most profitable (read: not rural) areas.

Unfortunately for consumers, a number of the laws are little more than legislative gift baskets that strip away consumer protections, kill off public access TV funding and in some cases, erode local eminent domain rights.

Forums » CT to AT&T: You Need a Cable License
view: topics flat text 
Post a:

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

No Wonder We're Not Tops

Once again, government holds back progress.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Rob
In Deo speramus
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Once again, government holds back progress.
True, but either the government removes cable licenses all together, or they force tv providers all alike to obtain it. It's no secret that the government has been favoring the telcos for many years, and now that they aren't, the telcos can't handle it.
skrupowies

join:2002-08-22
Wallingford, CT
clubs:
·AT&T U-Verse

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by Rob See Profile :

True, but either the government removes cable licenses all together, or they force tv providers all alike to obtain it. It's no secret that the government has been favoring the telcos for many years, and now that they aren't, the telcos can't handle it.

I agree, a level playing field for all parties. Kind of like the way the Telcos were forced to open up their lines to competition but the cable companies weren't. Cable argued that their service was different from the Telcos so they shouldn't have to follow the same rules. And that's true. It is different - technically. But to an end user it's exactly the same, they pick up a handset and hear a buzz. And this, by the way, is how they favored the Telcos for many years -- force the Telcos to open up their lines for POTS and DSL while the cable companies sat back and thumbed their noses at the state and the Telcos while raising prices whenever they felt like it.

To an end user Uverse is the same, they turn on their TV and see a picture. But technically it's a VERY different process from cable TV. So the argument that works for cable should also work for Telco.

Neyland85

join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC
·AT&T Southeast


edit:
October 16th, @12:34PM

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by skrupowies See Profile :

I agree, a level playing field for all parties. Kind of like the way the Telcos were forced to open up their lines to competition but the cable companies weren't.
I have no problem opening up cable pipes wherever that pipe was paid for by government funds either directly or indirectly by tax breaks.

Ok, with this crowd 'pipe' may not be the best word.. but /shrug have fun with it...
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

I think even lines that companies like Comcast put down more than 20 years ago should be opened up to competition. After all, such cable companies have OBVIOUSLY made back their cost to build out the lines by now anyway. So, if we're finally going to do away with our antiquated, state-granted cable monopolies, then I say all the cable lines in the country should be opened up to every single cable provider. Right now, Comcast is my only choice where I live. You want some real competition? Let's see Comcast continously raise their rates when I have a choice of Time Warner, Optimum Online or anybody else.

Neyland85

join:2003-02-04
North Augusta, SC
·AT&T Southeast

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by matrix3D See Profile :

I think even lines that companies like Comcast put down more than 20 years ago should be opened up to competition. After all, such cable companies have OBVIOUSLY made back their cost to build out the lines by now anyway. So, if we're finally going to do away with our antiquated, state-granted cable monopolies, then I say all the cable lines in the country should be opened up to every single cable provider. Right now, Comcast is my only choice where I live. You want some real competition? Let's see Comcast continously raise their rates when I have a choice of Time Warner, Optimum Online or anybody else.
And again, I have no problem with that as long as those lines were funded in some way by the local/state/or federal governement. If they weren't then they shouldn't be required to open them up.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

said by Rob See Profile :

True, but either the government removes cable licenses all together, or they force tv providers all alike to obtain it.
I don't see why any company shouldn't be free to negotiate the best deal it can. Just because other companies agreed to less favorable terms doesn't mean newer providers should have to be bound by said terms if they can avoid it.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

Its not about negotiating a better deal. The Death star is trying to either circumvent or change law. Here in Illinois they lobbied so hard that the legislature passed a different set of tax rules for ATT.
What incentive does a cableco have to lower their prices when ATT is delivering the same product without paying a franchise tax....none!

The Death Star would be better off in the long run to invest in their infrastructure rather than lobbiests....
--
Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset!
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

'What incentive does a cableco have to lower their prices when ATT is delivering the same product without paying a franchise tax....none!'

Do cable companies pay federal telecom taxes? What about VOIP? Kinda hard to complain when there's been nearly a decade of skirting regulations by the cable companies.

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

Cable companies pay local municipal franchise taxes, ATT knew this going into the game so they changed the way the game was being played (via lobbiests). Voip, is a relatively new technology that at first, people thought its applications would be limited, and then were proved wrong. Don't worry about voip...the taxman cometh!

Now I hate cablecos like the next guy, but at least they attempt to move forward. ATT moves forward not through technological advancements, but through legislative briberys.
--
Burn a tire, but make sure you buy that carbon offset!
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

'Cable companies pay local municipal franchise taxes'

And AT&T pays federal taxes. The gov't has decided to let cable not be a "telephone service" while claiming that U-Verse is a cable service.

'ATT moves forward not through technological advancements, but through legislative briberys.'

So how many legislators did they bribe to create wireless ethernet, radio astronomy, transistors, and Unix?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

said by S_engineer See Profile :

Its not about negotiating a better deal. The Death star is trying to either circumvent or change law.
But why is it wrong for AT&T to lobby to change laws that it finds disagreeable?
said by S_engineer See Profile :

What incentive does a cableco have to lower their prices when ATT is delivering the same product without paying a franchise tax....none!
There is nothing stopping them from lobbying to have the law changed on their behalf either.
said by S_engineer See Profile :

The Death Star would be better off in the long run to invest in their infrastructure rather than lobbiests....
How can they when the government won't let them do that?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Once again, government holds back progress.
I think its more than that... In this case, as in other cases of telcos and franchise fees, its a case of both parties holding up progress. Neither side wants to budge. It seems like negotiations in these cases are:

ATT - We won't pay.
Town - Yes you will.
Att - No, we won't.
Town - Yes, you will..

Ad nauseum...

Both sides need to figure out a way around these impasses...

Hell, one idea would be an exemption period that allows ATT to be exempt for a couple of years while they build out and recoup some of the investment and then have them pay...
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

But in this situation, the government is clearly and completely in the wrong. AT&T is trying to do the right thing by providing new services where they were not previously existing. The government wants to stop it. If the government would just get out of the way and let AT&T do business the way it wants to, everyone would be better off:

    •Customers would have more choices for TV/Internet
    •Governments would take more money from the investments AT&T has made
    •Other companies might be encouraged to take the jump if AT&T is successful

Government is doing absolutely nothing useful by holding AT&T or any other company back.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

But in this situation, the government is clearly and completely in the wrong.
And ATT isn't in any better a position. The blame can be spread equally here. ATT knew the video franchise rules, that have existed for years, and doesn't want to play by those rules.

It would be like a Quarterback trying to join the NFL and that he should be able to complete forward passes after crossing the line of scrimmage. The NFL would rightly tell that Quarterback to take a hike.

ATT and these local governments need to sit down and negotiate a deal that works for both of them.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by bmn See Profile :

And ATT isn't in any better a position.
Yes, they are. They are offering something that the public might actually be able to use or enjoy. The government simply offers more reasons for AT&T to not be able to offer these services. The former is clearly better than the latter. And if the people don't like what AT&T has to offer, they can make the choice to not buy these services. They don't need the government to make that choice for them.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

And ATT isn't in any better a position.
Yes, they are. They are offering something that the public might actually be able to use or enjoy.
That's a strawman, plain and simple. That has NOTHING to do with the fact that ATT is trying to shortcut their way around THE LAW.

And if the people don't like what AT&T has to offer, they can make the choice to not buy these services. They don't need the government to make that choice for them.
This is another strawman. The government is NOT deciding based on the technical merits of ATT's service offering, the quality of their offering or anything like that. The local and state governments are following the letter of the LAW.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by bmn See Profile :

That's a strawman, plain and simple. That has NOTHING to do with the fact that ATT is trying to shortcut their way around THE LAW.
And of course the net effect of the law is that there is now one less provider of advanced communications services. Does AT&T not have a right to lobby for a more favorable regulatory environment?
said by bmn See Profile :

This is another strawman. The government is NOT deciding based on the technical merits of ATT's service offering, the quality of their offering or anything like that.
I made no such claim.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

And of course the net effect of the law is that there is now one less provider of advanced communications services. Does AT&T not have a right to lobby for a more favorable regulatory environment?
Only if those regulations (a) are applied across the board to them, cable providers and any new entrants into the field and (b) maintain proper oversight and consumer protections.

ATT and Verizon are both asking to be treated special. They want to use the regulatory system to give them a competitive advantage over the cable companies, without those changes going to the cable companies.

They are gaming the system, practicing regulatory capitalism instead of trying to beat the cable companies at their game by trying to offer a better product, service, etc.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by bmn See Profile :

ATT and Verizon are both asking to be treated special. They want to use the regulatory system to give them a competitive advantage over the cable companies, without those changes going to the cable companies.
Again... why is it wrong for any company to lobby for such things? Cable companies can do the same if they want.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Again... why is it wrong for any company to lobby for such things? Cable companies can do the same if they want.
If you don't have a problem with laws giving special treatment to people or organizations, then this conversation isn't going to go anywhere.

The law is suppose to blind and apply to everyone equally.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by bmn See Profile :

If you don't have a problem with laws giving special treatment to people or organizations, then this conversation isn't going to go anywhere.
LOL. Now you're putting up a straw man argument. I never said that the law should give special exemptions to one party over another with regards to enforcement. I simply stated that there is nothing wrong with anyone lobbying to change the law to obtain some sort of benefit.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by pnh102 See Profile :

LOL. Now you're putting up a straw man argument. I never said that the law should give special exemptions to one party over another with regards to enforcement.
Sure about that...

I state that ATT and Verizon want to be treated special. You said "why is it wrong for any company to lobby for such things?"

In other words, an endorsement that companies should get special treatment under the law if they ask for it.

I simply stated that there is nothing wrong with anyone lobbying to change the law to obtain some sort of benefit.
That certainly is not what it appeared based on your response...

Yes, there is nothing wrong with people lobbying for changes in the law (although the current method that prevails is very wrong - money, trips, free stuff, etc.)... There is a problem when the law being lobbied for is unequal in its application - which is the case with the Telco/CATV franchise debate.
--
Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool.

All4Choice

@swbell.net

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

LMAO...You are arguing with someone who fantasizes about Star Trek!!! I am getting a picture of the guy in MIB, sitting there watching a video about the 'Light of Zartha' or whatever the hell the name was....and "living it".
Awesome!!! Go Klingons! Is that the right spelling? Do they, the Klingons, use the European Alphabet or the Klingon. Sory for any typos!

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

ATT and Verizon are both asking to be treated special. They want to use the regulatory system to give them a competitive advantage over the cable companies, without those changes going to the cable companies.
Again... why is it wrong for any company to lobby for such things? Cable companies can do the same if they want.
Again, we are talking about lawsuits, not lobbying.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Does AT&T not have a right to lobby for a more favorable regulatory environment?
There is a significant difference between lobbying and suing.
Guess which one AT&T has been using in CT?
You actually make a great argument for barring AT&T's lawsuit.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

said by marigolds See Profile :

Guess which one AT&T has been using in CT?
Perhaps if the state got out of the way of progress then lawsuits would not be needed.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by bmn See Profile :

And ATT isn't in any better a position.
Yes, they are. They are offering something that the public might actually be able to use or enjoy. The government simply offers more reasons for AT&T to not be able to offer these services. The former is clearly better than the latter. And if the people don't like what AT&T has to offer, they can make the choice to not buy these services. They don't need the government to make that choice for them.
The public might actually enjoy it if AT&T offered tax-free leaded gasoline discounted by using cheaper singled walled underground tanks and vehicles with no catalytic converters, but AT&T can't do that either.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher

rit56

join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

you should trying reading before you post. there's really something wrong with you.

"However, the primary goal of the laws is to eliminate build-out requirements so the companies can selectively deploy next-generation technology to only the most profitable (read: not rural) areas. Unfortunately for consumers, a number of the laws are little more than legislative gift baskets that strip away consumer protections, kill off public access TV funding and in some cases, erode local eminent domain rights"

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: No Wonder We're Not Tops

Why should AT&T be forced to service areas which are not profitable?

Sounds like your idea of "equal service" is for everyone to get 0 service as is the case now.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.
Cod

join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC


edit:
October 16th, @09:43AM

typical spin...

"However, the primary goal of the laws is to eliminate build-out requirements so the companies can selectively deploy next-generation technology to only the most profitable areas"

Is this fact, or typical BBR spin? Would love to see some links and proof that this is happening...

See 25 replies to this post

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest


edit:
October 16th, @09:58AM

cheaper for AT&T to use lawyers....

it's very telling when a corporation as huge as AT&T uses legal threats to bully states into seeing things their way. also, it is much cheaper than to actually play by the rules that have been in place for many years. win for AT&T, lose for those living in rural areas.

also, try to ignore the AT&T shill posts above mine.

See 14 replies to this post
BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN


edit:
October 16th, @10:15AM

Cherry picking=MYTH

First of all you can't find me even one case of where this has gone on in state that granted a statewide franchise.

Second the myth that at&t and others would only go in "rich" areas and ignore "poor" ones is also a myth. The opposite is likely true. "Rich" people have huge properties thus there are less potential customers per square mile than those that live in "poor" areas where there are lots of properties close together.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA

Re: Cherry picking=MYTH

Everyone overlooks that here's a complicated algorythm used to deermine who gets what.

Generally it can be boiled down to cost of upgrade vs ROI. And yes, sometimes poor areas get advanced services first. Ask IFITL customers how it feels to be using the most advanced FTTC connection of the late 1990s and why they haven't been upgraded.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Cherry picking=MYTH

I agree...part of ROI is the cost to deploy (i.e. how much does it cost to put a VRAD in that area, and run fiber/power to it) and if there's anyone there to use it.

Case in point, many parts of Santa Clarita had VRAD's 1 year ago... why ? Because the area was cheaper to deploy (newer POTS lines, and most likely fiber in the area, but not close to a CO). This area was only built --
Canada = Hollywood North
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

If you don't like it

vote out the elected officials who appointed the state regulators. If you do like it, vote for them.
attengineer

join:2007-09-26
Westland, MI

I find these commments so friggin silly....

I am a OSP engineer with at&t in SE michigan. We are currently the state with the highest VRAD/Uverse build out completions. And guess where they are...ready......Detroit. 90% of Detroit (city limits, not suburbs) is Uverse complete. Guess where the poverty level is not only highest for Mi but one of the top 5 in country... you guessed it...Detroit City.

I am so tired of hearing these anti-corporate socialists complaining about everything. At this point if I had the CEO seat I would probably tell CT government.. Fine, Keep your stupid sugar daddy comcast. Bye..

And if one more person says some stupid crap lie that at&t is somehow getting free government money to build uverse, I'm going to puke blood. ALL states and communities see us coming a friggin mile away looking like a big fat pot of money. We are the ones getting robbed in this damn deal. hell Detroit stopped us building Vrads unless we agreed to make every intersection in the city a fresh new Handi-Cap ramp at the cost of 5k each. Current projections are somewhere near the year 265 for a profit in MI.

Sorry but the lies I read get so damn frustrating.

See 12 replies to this post

zackwheat

join:2006-05-03
Blue Springs, MO

What's the purpose of the franchise tax?

The franchise tax was invented to compensate the community for allowing access to public right of ways. It seems to me that ATT has already paid for that access with it's telephone service.

Cable companies shouldn't have to pay franchise taxes on phone services and phone companies shouldn't have to pay franchise taxes on video services.

All4choice

@swbell.net

What's the problem?

So, even if there is dirty play...how many of you watch the Book Reviews, Catholic Priests talking, the BORING local town halls, etc...?
It's does not appear to be eliminating competition...just adding it. You like cable, satellite...keep it...don't order U-Verse. I see no gun. It's choice.
I hear complaining about cable monopolies and no choice...then it arrives, and I hear bitching. My God, just remain status quo.
I personally think there is just a bunch of people looking for an argument, something to complain about no matter what.
Not good for consumer? What was broadband price when launched compared to now? Wasn't it somewhere around $50/month compared to $15 now? Yep, competition bad for us consmers.

Trumbull Suburbs

@snet.net

U-Verse provides TV service over a private IP network

I have seen a demonstration of U-Verse from the mobile trailer in Trumbull CT. The picture looks great and I love the channel guide which shows a small video of what is playing and then lets one click and pop open to the full screen. Four TV channels or two high definition TV channels at a time is more than enough for me. The price is no big bargain, about the same as Cablevision but with low speed DSL bundled at no extra charge. Sadly I do not expect to see this service offered to me any time soon. I think AT&T made the wrong decision to not deploy fiber to the home. The U-Verse technology currently must be less than a quarter mile from your home so there must be many more VRAD terminals deployed. The Cable License might be a good cover for management to explain to the share holders why they will not be able to provide this server universally. Personally I believe that franchise fees should be abolished. I want to see telecommunication and other cable companies providing service to the consumer and the monopolies broken.

michaelphil

@comcast.net

Could care less...

AT&T, either get the cable license or get out...

They just put up all of those fancy boxes for U-verse, too.

I'm sure Attorney General Dickie B. will take care of them...
Forums » CT to AT&T: You Need a Cable License


Friday, 29-Aug 20:05:57 Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Hosting by www.nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo | feedback | contact
over 9 years online! © 1999-2008 dslreports.com.