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story category Cable Attacks Verizon For Urban Fios Redlining
Though they only recently figured out MDU deployment...
(old news - 03:11PM Friday Dec 15 2006)
tags: Fiber · competition · cable · telco
While it's pretty clear Verizon is picking neighborhoods that give it the best possible ROI for Fios deployment, they have had some (apparently now resolved) initial install issues when it came to MDUs or apartment buildings, keeping them from rushing into urban areas. This Delco Times report explores how the cable industry is attacking Verizon's lack of urban deployment in Pennsylvania as redlining.

From the article: "Keep It Local PA, a coalition of locally elected officials and community organizations, opposes the company with a banner on its Web site that reads 'Don’t let Verizon step on your town.'" The article fails to mention that while the group does have some municipal membership, the primary funding for Keep It Local PA comes from the cable industry, who's eager to avoid TV competitors.

That's not to say there aren't serious concerns with who'll get Fios and who won't, but the degree of redlining will only be made apparent in time. "Certainly there’s the concern that consumers who need the most relief from skyrocketing cable prices will be the least likely to receive the new competitive video service," opines Jeannine Kenney of the Consumer's Union.

Related:
  1. Thursday Evening Links
  2. Wednesday Evening Links
  3. Friday Evening Links
  4. Verizon Promises Not To Cherry Pick Philadelphia
  5. Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
  6. Bright House Slams Verizon On FiOS Grounding
  7. Tuesday Evening Links
  8. What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
Forums » Cable Attacks Verizon For Urban Fios Redlining
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Pot meet kettle........

Is this a surprise to anyone?


God
IN Vilseck Germany
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Colorado Springs, CO
clubs:

Re: Pot meet kettle........

it is an all out battle when it comes to earning the money ...

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

Re: Pot meet kettle........

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
I agree, it's not like they're doing this with DSL/cable. It's FTTH, something that, at the moment, they're losing ridiculous amounts of money on. It's not about gaining more, it's about losing less.
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
The argument was that cable had to sign franchise agreements. In exchange for exclusivity, they had to wire up everyone. Now that competition is coming in, cable wants to cherry pick too.

Another issue is that both Verizon and Comcast want the right to deny anyone else into the market with only their "promise" to eventually serve an area that has no service.
TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs:

Re: Pot meet kettle........

But did they have to wire everyone before they could start selling to their 1st customer? Or could they install in phases. I would find it hard to believe that a project the size of Philly was done "big bang".
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Pot meet kettle........

said by TheGhost See Profile :

But did they have to wire everyone before they could start selling to their 1st customer? Or could they install in phases. I would find it hard to believe that a project the size of Philly was done "big bang".
In Baltimore City, in order to get a franchise, United Cable (later United Artists Cable, TCI Cable then Comcast) had to wire the entire city in 4 years. They agreed to it. They left a few pockets here and there and were threatened with lawsuits until they wired people up.

If they didn't intend on servicing everyone, they should never have signed the agreement.

Dominokat
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Boothbay, ME
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1 edit
said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
So does that mean only the "wealthy" should get service and f**k everyone else?
I thought all this time EVERYONE paid into UNIVERSAL SERVICE FUND.
Why should the less fortunate take a hit because telcos floundered that UNIVERSAL SERVICE FUND.
--
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Pot meet kettle........

said by Dominokat See Profile :

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
So does that mean only the "wealthy" should get service and f**k everyone else?
I thought all this time EVERYONE paid into UNIVERSAL SERVICE FUND.
Why should the less fortunate take a hit because telcos floundered that UNIVERSAL SERVICE FUND.
You have a point with the USF, but i dont know exactly how that money is allocated for development. It could just be a BS fee.
Ask yourself, would you open up a BMW dealership in Compton CA or Beverly Hills CA?
Yes, i know you can't compare cars and internet services but look at it in a business sense.
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fiberguy
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join:2005-05-20

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
I assume you will also apply that to Comcast who is deploying their 16/1 HSI tier in the areas that matter the most based on competition too, right? You know.. picking areas to deploy first before moving into the other areas.. right?

Just want to make sure this logic applies all around is all.
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
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join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: Pot meet kettle........

said by fiberguy See Profile :

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

seems logical to me to offer a service where they might get the most customers.
I see nothing wrong with this "cherry picking" with a business minded point of view.
I assume you will also apply that to Comcast who is deploying their 16/1 HSI tier in the areas that matter the most based on competition too, right? You know.. picking areas to deploy first before moving into the other areas.. right?

Just want to make sure this logic applies all around is all.
I would think so, yes
--
"I content that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all others, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - unknown genius

GOLFnSUN
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

It is just cable wanting Verizon to get stuck in the morass of having to deal with every local community(one by one) in order to provide service. The cable companies had to do it, so they feel Verizon should too. But the fact that cable companies had to go thru that mess for over 30 years doesn't mean that is the way it should be going forward. Statewide franchises is the way to speed up new competitors entering the market. Cable companies just want to slow down their future competitors.
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ashworth

join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Pot meet kettle........

They didn't have to do anything to provide phone service.

Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY

It's not a neccessity

All due respect to those who are having financial difficulties and live in a less desirable area because it is what they can afford but you don't need cable TV or any TV for that matter. You can argue all you want but it is purely a luxury item. If Verizon wants to set up shop where they can make the most money, then they should be able to do just that.

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

Re: It's not a neccessity

said by Midak See Profile :

If Verizon wants to set up shop where they can make the most money, then they should be able to do just that.
Then they can do it without using public right of ways.
op

join:2005-07-16
Smyrna, DE

said by Midak See Profile :

All due respect to those who are having financial difficulties and live in a less desirable area because it is what they can afford but you don't need cable TV or any TV for that matter. You can argue all you want but it is purely a luxury item. If Verizon wants to set up shop where they can make the most money, then they should be able to do just that.
Or, what they could do is install FIOS in the apartments of the people that can actually afford FIOS and then if the other people call in and want it and can do a 1 year contract then I dont see no problem. It solves the cherry picking issue.
Nuts

join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
Your assuming that the areas they'r bypassing at this time are poor.

Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY

Re: It's not a neccessity

The article in question states just that.

dodgetech2

join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·ProLog
·Vonage

said by Midak See Profile :

All due respect to those who are having financial difficulties and live in a less desirable area because it is what they can afford but you don't need cable TV or any TV for that matter. You can argue all you want but it is purely a luxury item. If Verizon wants to set up shop where they can make the most money, then they should be able to do just that.
What about us that live in very rural areas because we choose to....Just because my closest neighbor is ~2500 ft away, does that mean I don't get serviced by FIOS ever???...

I would hardly call this area 'less desirable"...More like "less known" ..thats what I like about it...

BTW, I sold my house in NJ where FIOS was available and moved to PA and stuck about $100,000 in my bank...and I have a bigger home in a nicer area


Midak
Doctors suck
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Yonkers, NY


1 edit

Re: It's not a neccessity

Fantastic for you. You're not a desirable customer because they have to run the same amount of fiber to get to you that they do for 100+ homes in the 'burbs. Are you willing to pay for them to make the run to your home because if you are, I am sure they would be happy to do the work.

mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Astroturfing...

Should be illegal.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

Did Verizon meet deployment goal for 2006?

Have 6 million homes been passed, network-wide?
If so, the current and NEW deployments should be published in their last press release for 2006. Hopefully 2007 will show renewed interest in deploying FIOS, not wireless... there were virtually NO new deployments for both November & December, 2006. Finish some of the black-holes left in your primary deployment communities FIRST, Pennsylvania can wait.

Even if Verizon is redlining, fiber gets rolled out, not pulled back, ALL communities in the geographic regions will have to be deployed at some point. Cable companies should be happy they get to keep those customers for a few more years, while Verizon gets their competitive ducks in a row. Usually, Verizon is doing something RIGHT with deployments if it IRKS cable companies. TV rates are really ANTI-COMPETITIVE, if you really want cable-tv competitions, create a site in Russia called ALL_OF_CABLE_TV.COM streaming cable tv for $20 a month, all you can eat ppv, etc...
Really, Verizon along with all telcos will have vastly similar rates, no ONE company will undercut the price THEY pay for services, so taunting gets NO-ONE NOWHERE.
The real competition will lie in voip and internet access.

EnzonE

join:2000-03-23
Indiana, PA

Re: Did Verizon meet deployment goal for 2006?

said by tmc8080 See Profile :

Finish some of the black-holes left in your primary deployment communities FIRST, Pennsylvania can wait.
OK I'm not saying I would need the service tomorrow or something very bad is going to happen; I am currently satisfied with being a Comcast customer. Seems like every thing's VZ redlining mania these days! (»»Comcast Knocks Verizon for Cherry Picking) and on other sites of how VZ is first starting with wealthier communities.
As far as having the State wait; I think VZ should be the ones owing $/discounts to PA taxpayers after ripping them off of billions of dollars to have the Commonwealth wired with DSL and FiOS by certain strict deadlines; thanks PAPUC! see( »»Did Verizon Scam Pennsylvania?) ; if nothing shows copy and paste link. (don't mind me just ranting) From the looks of it VZ doesn't seem to be doing that bad in addition to FiOS deployment costs (»»investor.verizon.com/news/view.a···wsID=784) Sure it may cost a lot of $ to deploy everywhere, but I remember reading here: »»Verizon to use new tech to slash costs that the costs for installment are going down. Also another recent article posted on BBR backing up decreased costs for VZ FiOS installs: »»Switching a Customer to Fios Saves Verizon $110/Year. Thanks for reading in; nothing personal just my opinion and a little free time! =)
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kamikazi_Ace

join:2006-12-12
Miami, FL

"ALL communities in the geographic regions will have to be deployed at some point."
I am tired of the monopolistic beasts like adelphia and comcast. They have prices over the top and they don't get you all the programming available. Now they want to continue doing business the old way while other technologies are available. I have aced them alltogether.

jimmyrr
Premium
join:2002-08-22
Bronx, NY
·Verizon Online DSL


1 edit

MDU'S

Verizone has wired Fios all around CO-OP CITY BRONX NY where I live which has people with middle to high income living there. It i the largest co-op in the usa.
Co-op City is a very large quasi-cooperative/quasi-public middle income co-operative, consisting of over 15,000 apartment units in about three dozen high-rise (24-, 26- or 33-storey) buildings and a number of townhouses (3-storey attached garden apartments). cablevision wired it a few years ago. I have verizon dsl 3000/768 and average around 2872/720; see my speed tests and i am happy with verizon service. I still would like to have Fios. This is my line quality tests done today:»/linequality/nil/2149079
Jimmy
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Forums » Cable Attacks Verizon For Urban Fios Redlining


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