 
Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC |  Is it any wonder?
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 | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Is it any wonder? Exactly. And considering the bundling (and trial come-on pricing) it's not any surprise that new subs are taking a bite of the apple.
The real story is how many of those are still around after the prices go back to normal. Ask Sirius XM Radio about promo subscriber churn...
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Is it any wonder? said by RadioDoc  :The real story is how many of those are still around after the prices go back to normal. Ask Sirius XM Radio about promo subscriber churn... Relatively high given that either 1) The consumer has no equal alternative choice so either keep the services at the regular price, or downgrade, but maintain service with the company; 2) When threatening to cancel, or even downgrade the service, the cable company offers the customer another, similiar or even better promotion that keeps them.
Dare I say that if you currently have 2 or more services with your cable provider, and you are paying regular price for both of those services, then you aren't playing their game right. | |
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58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Is it any wonder? True. But many people consider that sort of business practice dishonest and won't keep calling every three or six months to cancel and be handed off to retentions. These are supposedly new subs.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Piggie
I Actually use Windstream
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL | Re: Is it any wonder? Doc, but no where in this leading article, do they state the number of new residences served by cable vs everyone else.
If cable is rolling out more new service, that would be the largest skew for them. | |
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who ever
@comcast.net
| The telecs certainly do their share of "trial come on pricing." All Broadband providers regularly offer promotional pricing/rebates to gain new customers. The particulars are always changing, but the promotional aspect will always be out there. That's one of the main reasons why the jury is still out as to whether Verizon FiOS will generate a return on investment that will be comparable to their competitors. | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | 71% of new Cable customers grabbing ankles.
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"I'm f'n droolin'; that can't be good" | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net | Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. Clever... while a lot of what you say is true, the telco's have wireless and cable doesn't. That's a pretty solid trump card for the future... | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. said by BigPete82 :
Clever... while a lot of what you say is true, the telco's have wireless and cable doesn't. That's a pretty solid trump card for the future...
Wireless? As in Wireless Internet Service?
The article is about broadband.
With those killer 5GB caps, the telco's wireless is a non-issue.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. Ever heard of LTE? Clearly, right now, wireless broadband is not yet able to compete directly with wireline networks, but 10-15 years into the future we will be seeing it. As far as caps go, cable has them too. So yeah, wireless is definitely a trump card for the future... Furthermore, FiOS penetration rates are already above 20% in only 4 years. In another four years we could see 30-35% penetration rates. Eventually, cable will have to string fiber all the way to the home as well... who the hell knows what AT&T is thinking. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. 10-15 years? ROFL!
Do you realize how long 10 years is? 15 years?
Yeah, 5GB wireless cap is a total threat to the 250GB cap Comcast has. Sure!
FiOS, as I have stated, VZ will not overbuild into AT&T territory so many people will never get to see FiOS.
Whatever you say friend, whatever you say! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. If we are talking about who has a more "future proof" strategy, 10-15 years is NOT that long. Yeah, its easier for cable companies to milk their copper in 2009, and they are taking more phone subscribers from the telco than the telco is taking video subscribers. Eventually, its all going to be an IP core and at that point Fiber to the Home and LTE broadband wireless will clearly be superior to cable's Fiber to the node strategy... whether or not you want to admit it, cable is eventually going to have to upgrade their networks... | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. Never said they wouldn't!
You need to realize, what was once "Unlimited" wireless is a shambles now.
LTE won't be any different.
ANY of the true wireless services will be severely limited and within 10 years, we may very well see the likes of comcast extend that last mile of fiber.
Wireless has a lot of issues that will need to be overcome before it will ever be a serious threat to any hardline service.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| | | | | | | AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. said by dadkins :and within 10 years, we may very well see the likes of comcast extend that last mile of fiber. It'll be sooner or that or we'll be picking on them like we are AT&T...  | |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| Wireless will never compete with wired on speed. Physics wont allow it. The only chance is the wireless provides enough speed so that the wired advantage is not needed.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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| | | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA | 20 percent penetration rate. so 20 percent have either tv, phone or internet over fiber. a true 20 percent would be if they actually had 20 percent of a area with phone, internet and tv. thats no where near the case. or i dont think anyway. | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. According to Verizon's quarterly press releases, over 20% of the homes they have passed with fiber subscribe to FiOS TV, and over 20% of the homes they have passed subscribe to FiOS Internet. Are those 20+% the same people? I don't know for a fact, but its quite likely that most of them are double play subscribers. Add that to the close to 50% market share (but eroding quickly) they have in POTS and a significant % of their customers are triple play and even quadruple play(wireless) subscribers. | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| said by BigPete82 :
... who the hell knows what AT&T is thinking.
AT&T's U-Verse won't be able to hand Comcast their arse like Verizon FIOS is currently doing to Comcast in various parts of the country.
If Comcast really want to expand their footprint and be a bigger beast to reckon with, they would look at offering VOIP services via the internet. That way, they can compete with Vonage, Skype, Verizon VoiceWing (Verizon gets it and they are doing it!) and others.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! | |
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| | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Why do you think Comcast, Time Warner Cable and Bright House invested in the New Clearwire and Cablevision has its own Wi-Fi? | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. "Invest in" is much different than "Own". New Clearwire will not be part of their core business strategy, mainly because they will have little control over it. Sprint and Clearwire will be calling the shots. They may be able to reap some monetary dividends, but nothing like the wireless divisions of AT&T and Verizon... | |
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| Whome
join:2005-10-10
Newbury Park, CA
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. While most of what you say is true, there is one point you missed entirely. In today’s economy people are choosing based on price, Using Verizon as an example, they lock you in for a year, throw a few beads at you so you will be happy and in most cases you are paying more than cable. They just do not get that during this economy pricing will win. OK so I will not have the possibility of 1080P for all my channels. That does not matter; most channels are not even sending a 1080P signal.
Telco’s needs to do the following:
1. Drop the contracts requirements
2. List prices and make them completive
3. Unbundle, landline is at the end of its lifecycle, let it die!!!
4. Show up on time, seven days a week | |
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BigPete82
@qwest.net
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. Where I live you can chose between a 6 month Charter Cable contract (after which the prices almost double), or you can chose a 1 year FiOS contract with Verizon. At the end of the year, you can re-up your contract with Verizon at whatever their going promotion is. In other words, you can always get their promotion price. I just did that and actually SAVED about $10/mo with their newest promotion. With Charter, once your contract is up, you are stuck up shit creek without a paddle, no promotion price for you!
As far as bundling goes, with FiOS, you don't have to bundle your landline. There is a FiOS bundle that includes 20/5 internet and 102 HD channels (250 SD channels) for $79, no landline necessary. Multi Room DVR is $20 and additional set top box is $10. For my family, thats about as good a deal as you can find. With Charter, after my contract is up I am paying at least $130 for those two services... and the internet is only 12/2 and there are only 40 HD channels. | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| said by Whome : Telco’s needs to do the following: 1. Drop the contracts requirements 2. List prices and make them completive 3. Unbundle, landline is at the end of its lifecycle, let it die!!! 4. Show up on time, seven days a week Add to that offer specials that rival cable internet offering. Uhm, you are not going to get me for $47.95 a month on a 6MB / 512k line when Comcast is bumping me up to 12MB / 2MB for $42.95.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| said by Rick :they don't get it yet. They..being the telco's...management..some of their employees..shareholders..whomever. Even some of the posts around this website the last year or two have been nothing but complete denial. What did AT&T do in the meantime? They just bought a lot more of that same kind of businesses. That's all they spent their time and money on the last couple of years. Talk about mismanagement. Their CEO might just as have been running Lehman brothers as bad as he's been at guiding this company. Here's the real problem. Now they're in the very unenviable position of having such a massive task ahead of them that it's mind blowing. Considering how much short-sighted investors rewarded Big Ed before he retired why wouldn't he keep those acquisitions and mergers going? He was running an investment company rather than a telecom. | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| Re: I almost think the bigger problem is.. said by en102 :said by Rick :Anyone see what I see? I see Mcd's losing their hamburger and fry business. After decades at it..and billions and billions served. It's happening right before our eyes. Umm... actually McD's and WalMart are some of the few businesses posting decent results (cost leader) - and the middle (Mervy's, Circuit City) all going broke. This round, even this high end (Saks 5th/Nordstrom) are technically hurting. During the recession, many give up the 'luxury' items such as VoD, DVR, 50Mbps service when they can save $100/month by using 6-10Mbps, and just plain HD or even... SD (OTA if you must get your fix). quote:
McDonald's Press Release 11/10/2008
McDonald's Continues to Deliver - Global Comparable Sales Up 8.2% in October
McDonald’s October comparable sales increases by segment were as follows:
* U.S. up 5.3%
* Europe up 9.8%
* Asia/Pacific, Middle East and Africa up 11.5%
I could be wrong but I think he meant it just as an example (McD losing) and not in a literal sense.
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! | |
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
·AT&T Southeast
| I wish I worked for the cable company for years so don't think I'm waving the pro-cable flag here but I can't wait until they finally get cable into our new subdivision. AT&T DSL has been slow (I get about 2/3rds of my speed), I had to call monthly for the first 4 months because they kept changing my speed to 384k for some reason, and they refuse to give me back my money for the DSL modem that they never sent me even though they can see that no one ever received it and it was returned. I wasn't exctied about AT&T to begin with but they have been awful. Hopefully, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I will be able to get Charter back soon. | |
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| ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL | Re: I wish Have you filed a BBB complaint against them? That will get their attention and likely get the modem issue resolved. | |
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| | ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO | Re: I wish I've never had much luck with the BBB. I've filed a few complaints against other companies and the BBB didn't do anything. Basically they told me to deal with it myself. | |
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ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| No surprise It's no wonder this is happening. Even in situations where you can order naked DSL, the telcos do their best to hide this from customers. Then, after almost a decade of deployment, not only many rural areas not served, but there are still spots inside many cities where you can't get it.
Oh yeah, and I can't think of the last time I've even seen one TV ad for AT&T DSL. It's as if they just don't care whether or not they sell it. | |
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| hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: No surprise Good point about the ATT DSL ads. I haven't seen one either in about a year or so. The only thing I see is AT$T Mobility or what ever the name of it is today.
That and maybe U-Verse but they have the VARDS here in my city, but do they ever plan on turning them on? Nobody knows, not even the tech's that have been working on them in my old neighborhood with one just outside my door.
Hell AT&T hasn't even applied for TV rights in Lucas County Ohio yet.
I don't see AT&T doing anything with their network here as far as TV, especially when the local cable company already has them head over ass with Internet Speeds and are already testing DOCSIS 3 here. | |
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| | ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| Re: No surprise Same here. I see the VRADs all over, and a tech told me U-Verse would be here by early fall, but all I've seen is one article in the paper about AT&T not wanting to sign a traditional franchise agreement with the city, and they're negotiating a deal. Maybe--oh, I don't know--they should have started that process a bit earlier.
I think the telcos are so used to their monopoly position that they don't know how to compete, and, at least here, Comcast is eating their lunch. | |
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| | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Re: No surprise True. Here the state will approve you as long as you pay the $2,000 for the application to get rubber stamped and its fully filled out. No problem. They failed to list my county/city on the application and have not sent a new one in.
But just like comcast eating them Buckeye here is having them too.
Especially with Local phone service for $13.95 per month before taxes for local calling which includes almost every city in the 419/567 area code. ATT wants just $17 per month just for the unlimited dial-tone in your own town. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| One line... ... says it all:
" adding over 900,000 more broadband subscribers than the top telcos"
Key word there is more.
Even with churn, this is waxing the telcos! 
Apparently, price is not king... is it?
Speed and availablitiy is what's driving these numbers.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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ashakouri11
@sbcglobal.net
| Re: One line... I have AT&T U-verse and I love the service. I have 6 Mbps/1Mbps, and there TV service is great, and the price is really affordable, as compared to cable. I had Cox in my area, and for the same package of Net and TV, I would be paying about $30 more a month. | |
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blips
join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL
| DSL vs Cable I live in Comcast & ATT territory. I currently have ATT DSL for cost reasons. Cable costs twice as much. But when ATT implements their very low caps I will pony up the cash and move to Comcast. I will be going with who ever has the higher caps. | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: DSL vs Cable said by blips :I live in Comcast & ATT territory. I currently have ATT DSL for cost reasons. Cable costs twice as much. But when ATT implements their very low caps I will pony up the cash and move to Comcast. I will be going with who ever has the higher caps. Same here but when AT&T implements the caps, I'll be switching to Sonic.net, a local ISP that offers DSL service at the same price points as AT&T. | |
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| | blips
join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL
1 edit | Re: DSL vs Cable Your lucky you have a capless alternative...for now. | |
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FutureX2001
join:2000-10-25
Perris, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| My opinion... You know I just have to say I've had such bad experiences with the cable companies regarding their Television services in the past decade- I switched to DishTV and never had a problem. Yes- this is a different service we're talking about here (Broadband) but the bad experience previously keeps me away. I also do not know if it is just some cable providers, but speeds seem to vary throughout the day within a wide range, mainly peak hours. We're in the process of moving and will need new broadband soon (after many years of DSL). Personally I would pay a bit more for Verizon VIOS over cable. I may be of the few, however. | |
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Bobcat
Volvo sucks donkey balls
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | Is DSL dead or not dead? I wish Karl would make up his mind. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | not yet, but.. are you thinking what I'm thinking?
telco may head down the same path as the auto industry looking for it's own verison of a bailout due to POTS line loss? | |
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| cableguy619
join:2003-06-24
Chula Vista, CA
| Re: not yet, but.. TV has more overhead cost then telco lines due. It was very smart of the Cable companies to get into phone when they did.
Where cable is established the telco other than verizon are struggling especially in todays economy.people are now bargain shopping | |
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fatmanskinny
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Wandering
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast
| said by tmc8080 :are you thinking what I'm thinking? telco may head down the same path as the auto industry looking for it's own verison of a bailout due to POTS line loss? Dude, I was thinking the same darn thing. You would think that AT&T would smarten up and see what Verizon is doing. Nooooo, AT&T want to milk the hell out of copper. That elephant in the room called Comcast is screaming at AT&T "step your game up or you will be put to sleep."
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God saved me from myself! Thank you, Lord, in the Name of Jesus! | |
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amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA | skewed results? What if the study compared the two in areas served by both? The cable medium is much more broadly deployed than the fiber. It's no wonder cable grabs most of the new subscribers. | |
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i286
join:2008-01-16
Toronto, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| DSL I don't understand why people go over and over this. DSL is not designed for America - people here are more spread out than in Europe and Asia - there you build one CO and fill it with customers no problem. Here to cover the same amount of customers you need 5+ COs with VRADs on people's lawns.
Therefore DSL is a temporary solution with its 5 km range and PPPoE logins and passwords.
I am surprised it lasted so long.
Verizon did the right thing when it went with fiber, it was like going with hybrid cars when everybody else is like "We don't need that, gas is cheap, they are crazy". And now those who laughed close factories. | |
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Cable Grabbing 71% Of New Broadband Customers
Comcast needs to buy Sprint ...