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story category Cable Industry: Our Awesomeness Cannot Be Denied
NCTA says cable efforts have saved consumers $35 billion EVERY YEAR
09:26AM Friday Jul 31 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: prices · competition · business · Op/Ed · cable
Worried about increased regulation under a Democratic Congress, broadband providers have been putting on their finest top hats and tap dancing shoes to put on a show for Uncle Sam. The name of the show? "The broadband and television market is simply so gosh-darned FABULOUS, there's no need for government intervention." We've seen it with Verizon's recent half-hearted nods toward improved privacy and exclusive handset deals, and now the cable industry's putting on one hell of a show of their own.

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In comments to the FCC for its annual assessment of the state of video competition, The National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA) this week has proclaimed that customers are seeing up to $35 billion in savings every year thanks to "vigorous" competition and bundling. Surely those of you facing tight budgets will be happy to discover this phantom money in your wallets.

Forget the cable industry's miserable customer satisfaction ratings (lower than the IRS), twice-yearly rate hikes for dozens of unwatched channels, and the fact that telcoTV "competition" hasn't lowered prices a cent (Verizon and AT&T consistently raise TV prices too). An NCTA-sponsored study has found that the cable industry's grace has delivered "enormous cost savings, lower prices and enhancement in value to consumers":
The MiCRA report, “Benefits to Consumers from the Transformation of the Cable Industry,” concludes that cable’s decade-plus investments in modern digital networks, which allow consumers to choose among a wide variety of products and bundles of services – including digital high-definition video, high-speed data, and digital voice – provides about $35 billion in annual consumer benefits. The value of the total consumer benefits was calculated by estimating the value consumers attach to the services to which they subscribe today versus 10 years ago, and incorporating the positive impact of bundling multiple services.
Of course, nobody denies that the cable industry's investment in fiber and other technologies have helped revolutionize the telecommunications landscape. What most consumer advocates have complained about are skyrocketing prices, miserable customer service, limited competition, and the cable industry's unique ability to continually milk consumers in any way possible. As is usually the case with K-Street policy wonks, the NCTA has selective vision when it comes to the cable industry's treatment of the American consumer.

While the NCTA likes to praise the bundle, such promotions are frequently about confusing customers with the illusion of value, often making it more difficult for consumers to make direct comparisons between different companies' products. While carriers insist they're rewarding you, bundles often act to punish customers for not taking on additional services they may not want -- while locking them into long-term contracts with steep early termination fees. Not that 300 channels of unwatched Spanish religious programming doesn't make it all worth it.

Since 2001, the NCTA's lobbying budget has ballooned to $14.4 million, and its cable-industry members certainly get their money's worth. The NCTA recently launched a new blog tasked with patting itself on the back and pushing the NCTA's various "cost saving" and "consumer friendly" agendas, including endless TV rate hikes, metered broadband billing, a ban on White Space broadband, inaccurate broadband statistics, and so much more. When consumers have friends like these, they really don't need enemies...

Related:
  1. Remember How 'Franchise Reform' Was Going To Lower Cable Rates?
  2. Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
  3. Time Warner Cable Protests Planned
  4. Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones
  5. Who Knew? Home-Rolled Fiber Lowers Cable Rates
  6. Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
  7. Verizon, Comcast Still Fighting Over Silly VOD 'Channel' Counts
  8. There's Still No Evidence That Metered Billing Is Necessary
Forums » Cable Industry: Our Awesomeness Cannot Be Denied
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majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY

hmm

Doesnt verizon usually raise prices when the cable companies raise prices though?

Here prices are pretty much the same between fios and cablevision.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Re: hmm

Yes, Verizon has consistently raised FiOS TV prices as well...

Eat Me

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Re: hmm

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes, Verizon has consistently raised FiOS TV prices as well...
That's because fees for retransmission rights are rising.

BillRoland
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Re: hmm

said by Eat Me See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes, Verizon has consistently raised FiOS TV prices as well...
That's because fees for retransmission rights are rising.
We have a winner!
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM

baineschile
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If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks. They will ONLY sell the cable companies groups of channels; so if you want ESPN, you have to order ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNNEws, ESPN Deportes; and all of those costs get passed on to the subscriber.

This affects all TV providers though, not just cable.

BillRoland
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clubs:
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Re: hmm

said by baineschile See Profile :

If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks. They will ONLY sell the cable companies groups of channels; so if you want ESPN, you have to order ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNNEws, ESPN Deportes; and all of those costs get passed on to the subscriber.

This affects all TV providers though, not just cable.
Exactly!
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM

TKJunkMail
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1 edit
said by baineschile See Profile :

If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks. They will ONLY sell the cable companies groups of channels; so if you want ESPN, you have to order ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNNEws, ESPN Deportes; and all of those costs get passed on to the subscriber.

This affects all TV providers though, not just cable.
said by Eat Me See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes, Verizon has consistently raised FiOS TV prices as well...
That's because fees for retransmission rights are rising.
The above point out the real problems of rising TV rates - Hollywood's bundled pkgs of TV shows. If the FCC feels a need to regulate cable/telco TV they should rethink that and go after the real monopolists - Hollyweird.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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Re: hmm

I know a lot of people don't like Dish Network, but they earned my respect for standing up to this. Other people would scream murder because such and such channel was offline with some scroll reading something like "DISH Network has blocked you from receiving this ________ channel. Call Dish Network today to tell them to return this channel to you!"

I always knew it was for the best. If the cable companies would take a stand together they could stop a lot of this crap---- problem is, these "content" companies and cable companies are often tied together at the hip--- investments in each other, each having stock in the other, People on the boards of both companies, etc etc etc
--
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fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

said by baineschile See Profile :

If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks. They will ONLY sell the cable companies groups of channels; so if you want ESPN, you have to order ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNNEws, ESPN Deportes; and all of those costs get passed on to the subscriber.

This affects all TV providers though, not just cable.
said by Eat Me See Profile :

said by Karl Bode See Profile :

Yes, Verizon has consistently raised FiOS TV prices as well...
That's because fees for retransmission rights are rising.
The above point out the real problems of rising TV rates - Hollywood's bundled pkgs of TV shows. If the FCC feels a need to regulate cable/telco TV they should rethink that and go after the real monopolists - Hollyweird.
That's why cable rates keep going up while internet has stayed the same for OVER 7 years. At least that's how it's been with Comcast.
--
»Check this out!

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
ESPN Deportes?!? No quiero!

60529262

join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL

said by baineschile See Profile :

If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks.
No, the networks are doing what they should be doing...maximizing revenue. The real blame lies at the feet of subscribers who whine about fee increases like babies but still cut that check every month. Do you want real relief from these pirates? Stop paying to be financially tortured every month.

The pay TV industry has had over thirty years to convince an entire generation that if they aren't watching the six hundredth rerun of F-Troop or a football game from 1976 on one of John Malone's 500 channels that they are uncool and will never get laid. The truth is that most pay TV customers are lazy, addicted to television and will continue to pay out the ass for programming they never watch. The NCTA knows this and laughs at the lot of you.

The only way out of this is to change your habits. Television is not worth $1200/year, but your money lines these corporate pirates' pockets while they pay for studies like this one which convince Congress you enjoy your monthly raping.

Unless you are ready to go without, you are part of the problem.
HiDesert

join:2008-08-17

said by baineschile See Profile :

If you want to blame someone for rising prices, blame the networks. They will ONLY sell the cable companies groups of channels; so if you want ESPN, you have to order ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNNEws, ESPN Deportes; and all of those costs get passed on to the subscriber.

This affects all TV providers though, not just cable.
Almost correct. ESPN, Disney, lifetime, some of the ABC affiliates and others are owned by Disney. And Disney is indeed the biggest violator of carriage EXTORTION that there ever was. That's why its almost impossible to opt out of the very expensive carriage sports channels. A simple solution to this is to make it a law that each channel must stand on its own during carriage negotiations. This way, crappy channels can just go away if most people don't want it. It also forces channels to actually improve content to win over viewer ship. The way it is now, they can just put any crap reality show on since they are assured a spot on the listing when using bundling/channel/extortion.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq


1 edit

Should read Our Monopoly Cannot Be Denied!

The nice part about being a monopoly is that you can tell customers "We are not Burger King take it our way or go F&%K yourself! Hopefully the Broadband ISP's will get the same treatment as Ma Bell did in the 1930's.

baineschile
2600
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join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
·Comcast
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·Verizon Wireless B..

Re: Should read Our Monopoly Cannot Be Denied!

I have available in my area....

Comcast
Wide Open West
Direct TV
DISH
ATT Uverse
OTA

Monopoly? There are still some MDUs out there that are cable only, but with the FCCs ruling a few months ago, that has changed significantly.

ruralnyuser

@rr.com

Re: Should read Our Monopoly Cannot Be Denied!

everyone can get direct or dish, but for internet here rural new york, i'm stuck with time warner, frontier dsl, or hughes net. Its not a monopoly but it might as well be, frontier is garbage there 7/1 tier is more like 1/256, and cost far to much. Cant use hughes for online gaming, so im stuck with time warner, which has a decent service for the area. However if Time Warner hadnt bought out this whole area back when adelphia flopped, id still be stuck with 3/1 and spotty service at that.
sheezyfromba

join:2002-08-03
Las Vegas, NV
Good for you. Of coarse I can get hughes, but other than that I can get Embarq or Cox..... hmmmm COX has not released any DOCSIS 3 out here yet and we will probably be last. I wonder why......
me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo

I agree we do need more competition.

One thing we need to do is un-bundle local loops, the other is we need to make sure the ISPs here cannot do what they have in Canada, throttle and other wise make their competitors connections if they buy band width from them so they cannot offer a better product,

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA

Re: Should read Our Monopoly Cannot Be Denied!

True that. More competition is better for us the customer
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The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

1 edit

Why is this surprising?

I dont understand why this is surprising ? Nothing is going to change, it just the cash is going to a different group of power-ticians. But at least cable has innovated, Telco is just starting.

Laughing Man
Stand Alone Complex
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Louisville, KY
clubs:

Just what I need to start off the day.

A really good laugh

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA

Re: Just what I need to start off the day.

I enjoyed it, especially the part about the 300 Spanish religious channels. Was Karl being sarcastic or sardonic? That photo of the smarmy-looking used car salesman had me laughing before I started reading the article.

Laughing Man
Stand Alone Complex
Premium
join:2008-03-17
Louisville, KY
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: Just what I need to start off the day.

I'd say it doesn't really matter which word you choose since they're synonyms, but either way still funny. And the picture fits in perfectly with the title.
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ronpin
Imagine Reality

join:2002-12-06
Nirvana

I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

I get *everything* I really want to watch from the Internet (phone service too). I think the old TV viewing models are fading away. Don't *you* merely "just settle" for something to watch on TV?
--
Remember the future.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

said by ronpin See Profile :

I get *everything* I really want to watch from the Internet (phone service too). I think the old TV viewing models are fading away. Don't *you* merely "just settle" for something to watch on TV?
I'm starting to feel the same way. Cable TV prices have gotten far too close to the maximum amount that I want to spend per month. I need to get off my butt and finally buy and install an outdoor TV antenna... just to see what I can get.
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thehopeful

join:2006-11-17
Burlington, ON

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

Based on your city's tvfool lookup, you'll probably do quite well with an indoor antenna. Take a look

»www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp···959daabc

Approx 20 networks with a crappy indoor antenna. And it's only up from there with a good outdoor.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

Prior to the digital switchover, I could barely get one analog channel with an antenna.

I'll try again though.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
thehopeful

join:2006-11-17
Burlington, ON

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

Most of your channels are adjacent (40-41-42 for example) so they probably messed with each other. Plus duplication of analogue and digital meant lots more channels (and interference) and low power digital channels. Things should definitely look a lot better now.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

I hope so!

When I lived close to Philadelphia I was able to get all of the digital TV stations using a regular indoor TV antenna. I'll give this a try before I decide to buy anything.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
russotto

join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA

Re: I unplugged my cable -- just like my landline!

I used to live right down the road from Mount Airy (Monrovia). We had a roof antenna and got analogs from Baltimore and Washington. Unless you've got local terrain problems, you should be able to get digitals from either one with a decent antenna. (but probably not both at once).

KrK
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said by pnh102 See Profile :

Prior to the digital switchover, I could barely get one analog channel with an antenna.
I'll try again though.
If you put up a decent antenna on your roof I think you'd be AMAZED at the number of channels and awesome picture quality you can get now.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA
·Charter Pipeline


1 edit
Wow you have no idea how much I hate watching TV nowadays. I mean seriously, when can you watch TV for even 1 minute and NOT GET 5 minutes commercial? Nowhere! Even on digital cable there is tons of damn advertisement on bottom of the screen. I don't even have a TV at home and I do not have cable TV either. No thanks. I watch everything online.

Only place I watch TV is at work. And that's because my co workers have to put the damn thing on when I am having lunch to hear about the negative, depressing news of the world. yay
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The Internet is about to go down....it is actually.
cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
Orangeville, ON

HAHAHAHA

Nothing like a bold faced lie to make me laugh and spit my coffee out at my LCD.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse

Weasel Words

said by NCTA :
"enormous cost savings, lower prices and enhancement in value to consumers"

Those sure sound like Weasel Words to me.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

Chris 313
Come get some
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300 channels of Spanish religious programming

If I had 300 channels of that, I wouldn't have TV period.

Bundles for me are pretty much perfect. I've compared all of the viable setups where I live and cable's the best for me for pretty much for foreseeable future.

As for the lobbying, I'm sitting back having a good laugh.

Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL

Scumbags

Yes, they're saving me money by making me get digital boxes so my rate goes from $54/month to $80/month. Please don't save me any more money - I can't afford it!

Five weeks and counting until I cancel my cable TV entirely.

--
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

See 6 replies to this post

jeffhambone
Peace, through superior firepower

join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
·Comcast

More guesswork to justify our rate structure...

The value of the total consumer benefits was calculated by estimating the value consumers attach to the services to which they subscribe today versus 10 years ago...

IOW -- we made a wild-ass guess based on marketing research.
--
Sarcasm is the Body's Natural Defense Against Stupidity

duder

@rr.com

soon or later

soon or later you got to make up your mind do i eat and feed my kids or do i watch crap on cable any questions

by the way love the used car guy that's what they are really like

MichaelTurk

@ncta.com

Cable Savings

First, full disclosure that I work for NCTA.

That said, I want to challenge your overall assertion that these savings are a sham with a personal experience of mine.

I was recently looking at my cable bill and felt it was high. I called Cox Communications, spent about 10 minutes on the phone with a CSR, and we found I was not getting any kind of bundle discount despite having voice, data, and TV.

The CSR quickly found a plan that saved me $50 month. He also pointed out that my area was now served by DOCSIS 3.0, and I could triple my current broadband speed for only $10 more per month.

I took him up on that, and now have Internet that's 3 times faster and bill that's $480 a year lower. All for the personal investment of a 10 minute call.

So yes, there are significant savings to be found very easily, you just need to call and make sure you're getting the best deal.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH


1 edit

Re: Cable Savings

In South Korea, where the government has focused on the telecommunications industry and ensured it is intensely competitive, people pay $30/month for phone + wideband internet + TV.

You can say you're "saving" money every year, but you have to state the original base cost. If I'm paying $400/month for an individual T1 line, then change to DSL, sure I'm saving *thousands of dollars* every year. Whoopee.

60529262

join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL

said by MichaelTurk :

and bill that's $480 a year lower. All for the personal investment of a 10 minute call.

So yes, there are significant savings to be found very easily, you just need to call and make sure you're getting the best deal.
Since you brought it up, how much are you paying every year for that $480 savings? I would find it rather odd that someone from the NCTA would not be better informed about his own cable service without calling in except that your example clearly illustrates the massive obfuscation of rates your industry has created.

The issue is not whether you can sign up for bundles and appear to be saving money. The issue is that you can't "save" money at all without paying *more* for bundles you don't need. Karl hit it right on the head.

How long until your $50/mo "savings" reverts back to regular rates? If all it takes is a phone call to get, why doesn't Cox just apply these savings across the board?
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
You saved yourself $480 per year. Cablecos didn't

Hpower
Roflmao

join:2000-06-08
Glendale, CA

haha

LOL the title made me laugh "Our awesomeness cannot be denied!!!"
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:

Real savings? Offer a la carte

The cable industry can save their business model by offering a la carte subscriptions for an affordable price.
JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL

1 edit

Re: Real savings? Offer a la carte

They can only offer ala carte if News Corp.,Viacom, GE and Disney which seem to own every channel let them offer it.
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil

castsucks

@sbcglobal.net

Re: Real savings? Offer a la carte

make the Disney channel pay more like it used to be.

and the high box fees need to go $15-$20 per hd dvr NO way!

direct only makes you $5/m for any box box 1 free.

60529262

join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL

said by JSRoman See Profile :

They can only offer ala carte if News Corp.,Viacom, GE and Disney which seem to own every channel let them offer it.
Bullshit.

If the cable companies told News Corp, Viacom, GE and Disney to go pound sand and lose their distribution things would change immediately. The fact is that the cable companies are often also content providers and play both sides of the street and have no interest in doing anything that might check the increase in programming fees.
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

Yawn

Yawn! Who cares about any of this crap. It is entertainment people!!!!! Not vital!! Not needed to survive!! These are all companies that need to make a profit!! If you own a company does it not need to make a profit to survive? Everyone here will never get it and might as well be in kindergarten.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH


1 edit

Re: Yawn

said by Heated Man See Profile :

Yawn! Who cares about any of this crap. It is entertainment people!!!!! Not vital!! Not needed to survive!! These are all companies that need to make a profit!! If you own a company does it not need to make a profit to survive? Everyone here will never get it and might as well be in kindergarten.
They don't "need" money. Their survival and profit isn't a constitutional right.

We're a developed, modern country, the most powerful one in the world. I think we can do better than just meet the bare essentials of daily life.

Furthermore, all the profits those companies make simply means less money for the average to spend on other things. It's a drain on our economy, and a drain on people's standard of living.
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

Re: Yawn

Yeah that's a good idea. Lets just make everything government run then. Lets make it like North Korea. That's the ticket. NOT! Learn that this is business SonicMerlin. Just like if you had a business you would want to make money not lose money. Get a grip on life will you?

RR User

@rr.com

said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

Furthermore, all the profits those companies make simply means less money for the average to spend on other things. It's a drain on our economy, and a drain on people's standard of living.
Yeah, their profits are a huge drain....

TWC made an average of $7.68 per customer per month in profit or $316 million for the 2nd quarter 2009 divided by 13.7 million customers divided by 3 months.

Comcast made even less profit per customer, an average of $5.58 per customer per month or $773 million in profit for the 1st quarter 2009 divided by 46.1 million customers divided by 3 months.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com

Makes me chuckle...

"We're saving you money by offering you this bundle compared to your having to purchase each of these channels individually."

OK... well, when you have a bundle that includes all of the channels I actually want and none that I don't, then get back to me. In the meantime I'll just save myself some money by not taking advantage of your wonderful "money-saving" offers... or your services... at all.

I'm quite happy to remain "un-bundled" till then. Buh-bye.
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

Re: Makes me chuckle...

said by mod_wastrel See Profile :

"We're saving you money by offering you this bundle compared to your having to purchase each of these channels individually."

OK... well, when you have a bundle that includes all of the channels I actually want and none that I don't, then get back to me. In the meantime I'll just save myself some money by not taking advantage of your wonderful "money-saving" offers... or your services... at all.

I'm quite happy to remain "un-bundled" till then. Buh-bye.
Good! Frees up bandwidth for me.

mod_wastrel

join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com

Re: Makes me chuckle...

Hmmm... except for all of that bandwidth I use to stream "a la carte" TV shows over my Internet connection**--for free (at least, nothing over and above the cost of my Internet service, which I'd have anyway).

(**not that my Internet connection has anything to do with your cable TV/video connection, but one good non-sequitur deserves another )
Heated Man

join:2009-06-18
Cleveland, OH

Re: Makes me chuckle...

said by mod_wastrel See Profile :

Hmmm... except for all of that bandwidth I use to stream "a la carte" TV shows over my Internet connection**--for free (at least, nothing over and above the cost of my Internet service, which I'd have anyway).

(**not that my Internet connection has anything to do with your cable TV/video connection, but one good non-sequitur deserves another )
Good point.

cameronsfx

join:2009-01-08
Pensacola, FL

ONE WORD: BULLSH@T!

'NUFF SAID!
carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Colorado Springs, CO

re: cable, etc

Don't want the basic package. I can get those channels just fine OTA. No one in the family watches movies but we do watch sports and PBS. None of the broadcast media is "fabulous"
weezy

Duramax08
Oh rly?

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX
·Clearwire Wireless
·Juno Express

According to the NCTA

They say Time Warner Cable is the cable provider for my street. Guess what? Time Warner Cable DOES NOT provide their services to my street, And they say cable is like 92% available in america. LIES!
--
One day, High speed internet will be down my road! Willing to put DSLAM's or cable plants on my yard. Contact me AT&T or TWC to set up an appointment =]
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23

look at rogers cable how they REALLY want to give you NET

SO the cable industry is ok, as in you cant use the net how you want, stupid slow low caps and the most pricey internet in north America , this is what they want to do to the USA trust me.
Forums » Cable Industry: Our Awesomeness Cannot Be Deniedpage: 1 · 2


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