Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDsMaybe you should advertise and support them correctly? 11:00AM Thursday Oct 01 2009 by Karl Bodetags: legal · Video · competition · fcc · business · hardware · alternatives · Op/Ed · cable · legislation · content · consumersAccording to the latest information from the cable industry, just 443,000 American consumers are using CableCARDs, designed to allow users to break free of the obligation of using a rented cable (or phone) industry TV set top box. That fairly pathetic number is up from just 407,000 in June, despite the fact the cable industry says they've shipped more than 16.7 million set-top boxes with CableCARD functionality. Every time the cable industry releases these stats we see the same story reprinted about how poorly CableCARDs are doing, accompanied by sort of a "golly shucks" shrugging inference that because shipped CableCARD supported devices are so high and CableCARD use is so low, consumers must just must not be interested in the idea. But the difference between shipped units and adoption doesn't automatically mean consumers don't want them. It might mean they couldn't get them or didn't know about them. Still, that CableCARDs simply aren't wanted is certainly the meme repeated by the cable industry (and its loyal industry trade mags) once or twice a year: "[I]n just over 24 months, cable operators have deployed almost 38 times as many CableCard-enabled devices [as] the total number of CableCards requested by customers for use in retail devices in over the last five years," NCTA general counsel Neal Goldberg wrote in the industry's quarterly report to the FCC, which was filed Tuesday. Of course neither the cable industry or these news reports mention the fact that the cable carriers don't bother to advertise the CableCARD, so most American consumers (even technically savvy ones) have no idea they exist. Not only are they not advertised, we've had countless customers tell us that when they've called their cable company to inquire about the technology, they've been told it isn't offered. When they are offered, the installation experience often isn't pretty. CableCARDs erode set top box, VOD and PPV revenues (however slim), on top of requiring additional truck rolls for a technology carriers don't want to offer in the first place. As such, a growing number of consumers believe the cable industry has intentionally made the CableCARD adoption process one of the most convoluted and obnoxious experiences humanly possible. Think water boarding meets the DMV. To comply with an FCC mandate the cable industry does use CableCARDs in their own devices, but they're embedded in their own units at the warehouse. Meanwhile, many companies give technicians virtually no training, and it shows. When customers do realize CableCARDs exist and go to order them, installation is quite often a nightmare. Tivo has dealt with this so often they provide extra instructions (pdf) specifically for your installer. Granted it's not all the cable industry's fault that a promising technology isn't seeing substantive adoption. The FCC has consistently bungled regulation aimed at improving adoption, and vendor support for CableCARDs has often been inconsistent. The inability to provide bi-directional support for VOD and other interactive services will also plague CableCARDs until Tru2Way is deployed. But if there's a primary culprit for a lack of CableCARD adoption, it's the cable industry itself.
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Spatch
Stugots
Premium
join:2001-06-29
Savannah, GA
|  Does anyone use these?
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | Re: Does anyone use these? said by Spatch  :I have recently switched back to Comcast after a couple of years of satellite. I have a media center pc that does not receive all channels. I see it installed into a pc in the pic. Would this allow reception of all the channels on my media center pc? I have never heard of this. I use eight cable cards with FIOS. When I had Comcast I was using six cable cards with them.
For the PC you need to get this.
»gizmodo.com/5357722/cetons-cable···one-slot
It can handle up to six tuners with one multistream cable card. They will be out early next year and will be in high demand. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: Does anyone use these? However, Windows MCE only supports 4 streams. Special OEM versions of Windows will support 6 streams. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | Re: Does anyone use these? said by N3OGH :From the article "The official launch is 2010, so we won't be seeing these cards for a little while yet, so there's time for the networks to collaborate to make and air six shows that are worth recording in the same time slot." Cool gadget, but I honestly can't think of any instance where there is 6 programs simultaneously on air that I just HAVE to watch. Quite frankly, I often have trouble finding one program worth watching, let alone 6! I sometimes have ten to twelve recordings going on from HD channels. IT doesn't happen too often but the norm for me is 3 to 6 HD recordings at once.
Even back in 2001 I sometimes had a couple of shows on in HD that needed to be recorded. But back then only 40% to 45% of what I watched was HD. | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by aaronwt :I sometimes have ten to twelve recordings going on from HD channels.  ...You must have a lot of viewers in your house to be able to watch all of that content. | |
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RR Conductor
RailRoadDude
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
 ·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Does anyone use these? said by openbox9 :said by aaronwt :I sometimes have ten to twelve recordings going on from HD channels. ...You must have a lot of viewers in your house to be able to watch all of that content. I was thinking the same thing! I'm a gadget nut myself, but that seems like overkill.
--
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. | |
| | | AstroBoy
join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD
| said by aaronwt :said by Spatch :I have recently switched back to Comcast after a couple of years of satellite. I have a media center pc that does not receive all channels. I see it installed into a pc in the pic. Would this allow reception of all the channels on my media center pc? I have never heard of this. I use eight cable cards with FIOS. When I had Comcast I was using six cable cards with them. For the PC you need to get this. » gizmodo.com/5357722/cetons-cable···one-slotIt can handle up to six tuners with one multistream cable card. They will be out early next year and will be in high demand. That is so cool! I hope someone will have Linux drivers! | |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA
| Re: Does anyone use these? AstroBoy,
Not going to happen. Linux would need some changes and DRM support for CableCard. Plus they would have to get it certified. However, Broadcom devices run Linux and they're certified but they're embedded STB's that run some mixture of proprietary and Open Source software. | |
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mackey
join:2007-08-20
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by rv65 :Not going to happen. Linux would need some changes and DRM support for CableCard. Or just someone to reverse engineer the windows drivers like they did for pretty much every Broadcom card that's currently supported...
/mackey | |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA | Re: Does anyone use these? Actually they should reverse engineer a linux STB that uses a BCM chip. They might be able to work it out. Though mythtv and other Linux HTPC software developers have no interest in adding CC support. | |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA | Re: Does anyone use these? As long as they make it secure and not break the cableco encryption then it should be fine. | |
| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does.
Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time
So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: Does anyone use these? said by b10010011 :Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does. Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time So in reality a lifetime subscribed TiVo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR. I personally prefer TiVo, but with the Ceton card, it will have two, four or six tuners. It will only need one multi stream cable card and will have one cable input that will split internally to all the tuners.
It's a better solution than what is in the picture at the top, that shows a cable connected to each card with a cable card in it and probably only one tuner.
One ceton card will replace up to six of those. I only wish they were available eight years ago when I first started recording HD. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| said by b10010011 :Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does. Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR. That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. | |
| | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
1 edit | Re: Does anyone use these? said by Eat Me :That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Sure but do the math.
four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version)
A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording.
A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale. | |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by b10010011 :said by Eat Me :That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Sure but do the math. four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version) A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording. A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale. A PC powerful enough to support the Ceton requires nothing more than a quad-core from Intel or AMD (and not even a recent one; even a Phenom X4 (first-generation) or Q6600 (no longer manufactured by Intel) will do quite nicely). Or, if you want something from the current generation, Phenom II X4 or i5-750. Such PCs (the current-generation ones) are not even $800.
However, most cable companies (and Comcast in particular) have no interest (and less desire) to deploy as finicky and persnickety a technology as CableCARD; worse, fewer and fewer TVs nowadays support them! (Looking for one in a big-box retailer? You won't find one at Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, either. If you find one, it will likely be not only a closeout but one of those slow-selling-as-molasses-in-Antarctica rear-projection TVs, and at a specialty-retailer or e-tailer like overstock.com or buy,com.)
Head over to AVSForum (»www.avsforum.com) sometime and check out the problems folks are running into to get CableCARD supporting TVs (in fact, any CableCARD-supporting device outside of Tivo). The reality is that Tivo (alone of all the companies in the CEA) went the extra mile to support CableCARD, while the majority of the CEA membership didn't even go the first mile. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by PGHammer :However, most cable companies (and Comcast in particular) have no interest (and less desire) to deploy as finicky and persnickety a technology as CableCARD; worse, fewer and fewer TVs nowadays support them! (Looking for one in a big-box retailer? You won't find one at Best Buy, or Wal-Mart, either. If you find one, it will likely be not only a closeout but one of those slow-selling-as-molasses-in-Antarctica rear-projection TVs, and at a specialty-retailer or e-tailer like overstock.com or buy,com.) Head over to AVSForum (» www.avsforum.com) sometime and check out the problems folks are running into to get CableCARD supporting TVs (in fact, any CableCARD-supporting device outside of Tivo). The reality is that Tivo (alone of all the companies in the CEA) went the extra mile to support CableCARD, while the majority of the CEA membership didn't even go the first mile. The reality is that problems notwithstanding, CableCARD is all we have right now to escape from cable box hell.
After using a S3 TiVo I will never go back to a cable box, ever. In fact being able to use a TiVo is the only reason I tolerate cable in the first place. I would be using satellite which has more HD channels in better quality if it weren't for CableCARD.
So I view CableCARD as a necessary evil, and I am glad that the FCC is requiring it. Until some better solution comes along, that is. | |
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60529262
join:2007-01-11
Chicago, IL | Spoken like a cable company PR hack.
If you kill the demand by not making them widely available of course the manufacturers are not going to support it. You NCTA people are so fscking transparent. | |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by 60529262 :Spoken like a cable company PR hack. If you kill the demand by not making them widely available of course the manufacturers are not going to support it. You NCTA people are so fscking transparent. Wrong, as usual.
I spoke as the owner (and purchaser) of a TV that I bought specifically BECAUSE it supported CableCARD; for me, CableCARD was a requirement strictly BECAUSE I wanted no part of a set-top box. The TV works fine (it's still on my bedroom wall, and still running today); however, I also followed the horror (and lots of pain) that was posted by fellow purchasers of TVs that supported CableCARD (head over to »www.avsforum.com and read for yourself).
My purchase of a TV that supported CableCARD was decidedly atypical because most folks that bought HDTVs then (as now) bought based on price (not features), and CableCARD support was an option in 2005 (when I bought my plasma TV) and a very expensive one, even for a plasma HDTV. (In fact, Philips sold quite a few of the 42PF5XXX models in 2005, despite the sub-par plasma panel and lack of CableCARD support in the 7xxx and top-end 9xxx. The model that Philips replaced my 7320A/37A with lacked CableCARD, but used the same panel (and, oddly enough, the SRP actually went up). My Mom wanted to purchase a sub-40" TV with CableCARD in 2008 and she can't buy such a HDTV new today. We've been looking at 55" HDTVs (preferably OLED, but straight LCD and plasmas remain in the running); however, CableCARD isn't available there, either.)
In other words, I'm speaking as a TV purchaser; the only tie I have to cable is that I'm a Comcast customer, and that meant exactly diddly to the point I made. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
4 edits | said by b10010011 :said by Eat Me :That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Sure but do the math. four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version) A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording. A TiVo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale. No encoding is necessary. the HD stream is just recorded as is. You only need to decode it when watching. A very cheap dual core has no problem recording multiple streams. An HD stream is very slow. at most 19mbs and a USB 5400 rpm drive can do that.
I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently.
And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it. | |
| | | | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by aaronwt : I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently. And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it. I would like to see that. I have a Hauppauge PCIe HD tuner card and my dual core AMD 4800+ has trouble even displaying an HD channel without frequent pauses. Recording even one HD channels is impossible and I have a fast SATA drive. | |
| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Does anyone use these? You have a problem with your computer/software then. I have no problem recording two simultaneous 1080i streams from OTA with my 1.6GHz G4 PowerBook. I definitely can't watch them on the machine, but I have no problem recording. As aaronwt stated, there's no encoding and your tuner card and computer should just drop the MPEG2 files to your hard drive. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by b10010011 :said by aaronwt : I was recording and watching HD programing in 2001 with a P3 . A few years ago I had a cheap dual core with two USB tuners and a USB storage drive. It had zero problems recording two HD programs, watching a program on that PC and sending two programs to two other PCs on my gigabit network. All concurrently. And this is with all the content being read and written to/from the same USB drive and this was a few years ago. A current cheap PC should have no problems if my cheap PC from a few years ago could do it. I would like to see that. I have a Hauppauge PCIe HD tuner card and my dual core AMD 4800+ has trouble even displaying an HD channel without frequent pauses. Recording even one HD channels is impossible and I have a fast SATA drive. Something must be wrong with your system. The hard drive will not be the bottle neck since a 5400 rpm drive is more than fast enough. And I was running two HD tuners off USB with no hiccups.
I've run my tuners on other systems I own with no problems either. All on systems I had built a few years ago. I haven't used my Cat's Eye tuners in while now since I have a bunch of TiVos to use instead. | |
| | | | | krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
| said by b10010011 :said by Eat Me :That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Sure but do the math. four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version) A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording. A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale. The specs listed on the Ceton website are well below a PC in the $1000+ range and frankly I think they are just being cautious. The system doesn't need to be powerful at all and the cards don't need hardware encoders either. Why?
Because the card is simply recording the stream presented by your cable provider. Your hard drive choice is arguably more important then how powerful a CPU you have, provided said CPU was made sometime with in the past 2 years or so. | |
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aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: Does anyone use these? said by krichek :said by b10010011 :said by Eat Me :That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Sure but do the math. four-tuner version of the card somewhere between $300 and $600. (so lets say $200-$300 for a two tuner version) A PC powerful enough to record two HD streams while playing back an HD recording is going to be in the $1000+ range as none of these cards have hardware encoders for HD recording. A Tivo-HD with lifetime subscription is about $700 and even less if you catch a sale. The specs listed on the Ceton website are well below a PC in the $1000+ range and frankly I think they are just being cautious. The system doesn't need to be powerful at all and the cards don't need hardware encoders either. Why? Because the card is simply recording the stream presented by your cable provider. Your hard drive choice is arguably more important then how powerful a CPU you have, provided said CPU was made sometime with in the past 2 years or so. Even one made several years ago would not have a problem. The HD streams are very slow. 19mbs at most. even an old 5400 rpm drive can handle multiple HD streams being read and written concurrently without any hiccups. | |
| | | | | | | krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
1 edit | Re: Does anyone use these? said by aaronwt :Even one made several years ago would not have a problem. The HD streams are very slow. 19mbs at most. even an old 5400 rpm drive can handle multiple HD streams being read and written concurrently without any hiccups. I chose "within the last 2 years or so" simply because the card will require a PCI-e slot when it first arrives. They have stated a USB version may appear but for now, a board with a PCI-e slot is going to give you a CPU made within the past 2-3 years.
I know the actual requirements are much less. Heck, I remember recording OTA HD on a 700MHz Duron processor, (It did have a HW decoding card tho)  | |
| | | | krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
| said by Eat Me :said by b10010011 :Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does. Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR. That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Provided it's running Windows 7. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| Re: Does anyone use these? said by krichek :said by Eat Me :said by b10010011 :Yeah, there are PC tuner cards that can use a cable card and they would allow your PC to receive every channel a set top box does. Bu they are only single tuner cards, so like in the picture you would need multiple cards to record multiple channels at the same time So in reality a lifetime subscribed Tivo-HD is a more cost effective solution than a media center PC for a DVR. That's changing. It used to be that you could only get a Cablecard tuner as part of a whole new PC from HP and others. Now Cablelabs loosened the restrictions so that you can pop a cablecard tuner into any old PC. Provided it's running Windows 7. That's correct.
But it's a HUGE leap from when you had to have a PC from HP or another OEM with a signed BIOS before you would even be allowed to connect the tuner to your PC.
I'm a TiVo fan and I'm seriously considering a media center PC due to the fact that I can do 4 tuners instead of just two and not pay a sub fee to tivo. TiVo was great in the early days but lately has been quite disappointing. | |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | The problem is that they are *only* sold with a new "certified" PC that has DRM-galore. You can't just buy one or two and put them into your PC. | |
| | | | | NGOwner
join:2000-11-21
Leawood, KS
| I have three. One each in two TivoHDs. One in a Toshiba DLP.
They work fine. TWC charges me 5.25 per month for all three. Sure beats the pants off cable boxes.
[NG]Owner
--
It is impossible to create an idiot-proof product. Humanity is simply too adept at churning out better idiots. | |
| | alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| I have Time Warner, and I started using a Cable Card before getting the TWC DVR. I still have the Cable Card as a back-up, and it comes in handy when I have to reboot the DVR, and that happens once in a while. The picture quality is okay through the Cable Card, but it's much better from the DVR because of the HDMI connection. | |
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itsbry
join:2001-02-22
Fernandina Beach, FL
| I would love to use one... I called Comcast (northeast Florida) and was told that I just had to drop the set top off at the office and pick up the CableCard. No tech, no nada...
But the wife says that she can't do without the "guide" that makes it so easy to find the show she wants to watch.
So I suppose I'm going to live with the extra remote just so she can have her "guide" button... sigh.
--
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
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| expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY | I consider myself fairly technically inclined and aware... ...and this is the first time I've heard of them. ??? | |
| | chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | Re: I consider myself fairly technically inclined and aware... I do not want to sound mean... but first time??? Hope you are kidding. Otherwise, you might not be as fairly technically inclined as you think you are. | |
| | | expert007
join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY | Re: I consider myself fairly technically inclined and aware... 1) Yes. First time.
2) "Fairly" is subjective.
3) Yes, it sounded mean.
I run an IT company, but I couldn't give a rats ass about television.  | |
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danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: I consider myself fairly technically inclined and aware... said by expert007 :1) Yes. First time. 2) "Fairly" is subjective. 3) Yes, it sounded mean. I run an IT company, but I couldn't give a rats ass about television. EXACTLY. The cable co's arent exactly pushing this as an option and TV makers are exactly building this functionality into their sets. The public EVEN TECHNICALLY savvy public doesn't research STB options cause there is only 1 and its sold as a weak option at that
If I had cable card ready tv's id ditch the stb in a heart beat. | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
castsucks
@sbcglobal.net | some systems fee you to death with cable cards anyways like outlet + card rent on a ($50-$100) card + cable card HD fee per card. | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
rendrenner
join:2005-09-03
Grandville, MI
| Cable Card installs I dont install that many a year. maybe 18-20. Its a decentmix of Tivo vs TV's. Im curious tho what percentage of HD TV's actually have the cablecard slots available. I've been quite suprised to see some very nice looking large displays that dont even have the option.
I wont go the cable card route until tru2 way is fully launched. I think most of my subs want the boxes for the ondemand feature. More and more TV's are having their own on screen guide so loosing that isnt a concern.
The 3 biggest hangups I have with the installs are TV's already mounted to the walls with no access to the slot, sets that need a firmware bump to work correctly and the Tivo's sitting still sealed in the box and sub saying "There ya go, how long will this take?" | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: Cable Card installs They used to have them, then all of a sudden they disappeared.
I guess the average consumer takes the path of least resistance and takes a cable box. | |
| 
banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
1 edit | Two S-cards here! The effectiveness -- and the resulting customer experience -- with CableCARDs is completely dependent on the local cable company. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: cable companies don't want to bother supporting these things, so they don't train their staff and don't set up their systems properly. As a result, customers have a bad experience and don't want the CableCARDs either. The cable company says, "Shucks, nobody wants these things, I guess we shouldn't put any money into supporting them." A vicious circle.
I have two Scientific Atlanta PowerKEY cards in my TiVo HD, and I have a serious love/hate relationship with them. I love them because they enable me to avoid having to deal with one of Sci Atlanta's absolutely horrible cable boxes. (Been there, done that.) But I hate them because our local Comcast's billing system isn't set up to deal with them properly, making the account prone to accidental misconfiguration by uninformed CSRs, which results in unexpected loss of service.
Because our local Comcast system's billing system is literally unable to support proper pricing for CableCARDs in a two-tuner device, they see each tuner as a separate box and bill for an additional HD outlet. Thus, a manual discount code must be put on the account to reduce the price to the correct level. This probably could be mitigated by using a multi-stream CableCARD instead of two single-streams, but Comcast won't offer the M-cards in my area.
I just had a technician sent out to my home to diagnose a problem with my Comcast HSI and we were talking about CableCARDs. "I hate them," he said. "CableCARDs and I don't get along. That's because we're installing them with no training at all, and when I take a stack of twelve of the damn things I'll be lucky if I find two that work."
The idea is great, the execution by southwest Florida Comcast is emphatically not.
Conversely, however, my dad has Bright House cable in metro Detroit, got a multi-stream Motorola CableCARD for his TiVo HD and has never had a single problem. Ever. (I'm jealous.)
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
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Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA
| Re: Two S-cards here! said by banditws6 :Because Comcast's billing system is literally unable to support proper pricing for CableCARDs in a two-tuner device, they see each tuner as a separate box and bill for an additional HD outlet. Thus, a manual discount code must be put on the account to reduce the price to the correct level. This MAY be true in your area, in most if a second card is in the same piece of equipment then there is a reduced cost for second card. Has been like that in New England area for a few years. | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Two S-cards here! Edited above sentence to mention that. I did mention the specific local service area in several other places up there.
I think part of it may have to do with us being a Scientific Atlanta service area -- which represents about 10% of Comcast's markets, if I recall correctly.
If nothing else, this merely illustrates my point that the CableCARD experience is dependent upon the effectiveness of the local cable operation. | |
| 
r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
St John'S, NL | No TVs have cablecard support Until TVs are made with cable card support no one will use them.
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Democrats are not Socialists any more than Republicans are. | |
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See 28 replies to this post | |
Draco
join:2006-06-18
Slate Hill, NY
| Hah! Yeah right. Time Warner here in NY was a fun experience with these things.
Almost a year ago now, I called up a TW rep, only to find that they had no idea what a cablecard was and got no help on the matter. I was surprised, to say the least, but shrugged it off. I purchased a Tivo-HD as I planned in the first place, read/researched a bit about S- and M-cards, and also found an acquaintance that had an M-card install not too long ago. A nightmare install by Cablevision, but that's another story.
The second call about 3 days later to TW got me some older lady rep, who wasn't all that nice, but at least admitted to having cablecards available. *grin* But claimed they only give out S-cards at $1.50/ea... oh, and it was required for them to roll a truck (as I expected), but at some huge service cost that I don't remember offhand (I didn't expect this). I was rather baffled that they wouldn't drop the cost on the card installation, being that I was with TW since 1988 or so. Alright, whatever. I'll wait for the TiVo-HD to come first before anything.
Long story short, Tivo-HD came a few days later. I called, got a nice lady who didn't know much on cablecards, put me on hold, came back quickly and lined up a M-card and a free installation appointment a week later.
So what did I get from this? Time Warner is trying to scare customers away from cablecards, but that's just my experience from a year or so ago. If that's what your less tech-savvy customers have to deal with, I can see why there's not a whole lot of cards out there. Maybe TW changed their policy, but all I know is I'm really enjoying my TiVo-HD over TW's buggy piece of crap DVR that they try to pass off to customers. | |
| rdmiller
join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA | What about Tivo? Shouldn't Tivo be the one that is promoting this? It's their device that benefits most from the customer not having to have a separate STB. | |
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banditws6
Shrinking Time and Distance
join:2001-08-18
Naples, FL
·Comcast
| Re: What about Tivo? TiVo does promote it, and in fact is quite helpful -- more so than my cable company, anyway -- in providing information needed to set up the cards. I literally knew far more about CableCARDs than the tech who came out here to install them. He ended up handing me his phone and I talked to the person at the office who was doing the pairing.
My issue isn't with advertising, it's with the cable company being knowledgeable enough to hold up their end of the stick when the customer, who already knows they need a CableCARD, asks for one.
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
| 
Comcablrtl
join:2003-10-25
Midwest
·Comcast
| Tru2Way Just to add to this. There is a way to get PPV, and On Demand with the CableCard. TVs, such as Panasonic's ...PZ80Q are Tru2Way ready. T2W allows for a multi-stream CableCard to be used, thus allowing 2 way communications. Even with that technology advertised in retail stores, customers aren't interested. Much of the disinterest has to do with the lack of DVR functionality in those TVs.
In addition, Pan. only made a 42" and 50" TV with this technology. The avg consumer would make a TV of that size their main TV. Main TVs usually have DVD players near by already. As such, a DVR is usually desired for a main TV as well. If these TVs were made in small sizes for kitchen, bathroom, etc., the technology would be more relevant. As far as a cost savings over the traditional STB, consumers don't seem to be that worried about it. | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Tru2Way said by Comcablrtl :Just to add to this. There is a way to get PPV, and On Demand with the CableCard. TVs, such as Panasonic's ...PZ80Q are Tru2Way ready. T2W allows for a multi-stream CableCard to be used, thus allowing 2 way communications. Even with that technology advertised in retail stores, customers aren't interested. Much of the disinterest has to do with the lack of DVR functionality in those TVs. Maybe its because with Tru2Way your TV becomes a puppet of the cable companies always crashing slow as shit GUI. | |
| | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| Re: Tru2Way said by patcat88 :Maybe its because with Tru2Way your TV becomes a puppet of the cable companies always crashing slow as shit GUI. Tru2Way may not be perfect but it should get better and the cable companies had better enthusiastically support it. There's a law that's been effectively violated for thirteen years that supposed to allow consumers to not have to rent cable boxes from the cable company. As a consumer I'm angry and I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the government to come down hard in enforcing this law. | |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA | Re: Tru2Way The retail tru2way DVR spec hasn't been finalized yet. | |
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caddyroger
Premium
join:2001-06-11
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by Sammer :said by patcat88 :Maybe its because with Tru2Way your TV becomes a puppet of the cable companies always crashing slow as shit GUI. Tru2Way may not be perfect but it should get better and the cable companies had better enthusiastically support it. There's a law that's been effectively violated for thirteen years that supposed to allow consumers to not have to rent cable boxes from the cable company. As a consumer I'm angry and I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the government to come down hard in enforcing this law. No law been broken there are TiVo and Moxie that have boxes you can buy. If manifactures don't make them you can not buy them.
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Caddy | |
| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| ghettofabulous It's a ghetto-tastic solution at best, and a poor excuse at worst.
Even if it worked perfectly, there are still other issues.
First, it's difficult to BUY one.
It's simple - there are already QAM tuners. This is a "standard" right? Lots of TVs etc. have them nowadays, and they work fine. Add a freaking authorization chip in there with a MAC address or something, and be done with it. It'd cost very little, and would provide a super simple solution for everyone involved. ...In essence, that's all a "DTA" even is; a QAM tuner, some kind of "security" chip, that pipes the signal out... Integrating the one little "middle man" chip can not be that difficult or costly. Instead of a "DTA" there could even be some kind of coax box that sits between your line and a device which provides the authorization - no need to go digital to analog before it gets tuned by your TV... It's an idea anyway...
Devices ought to be addressable, and one should be able to buy a TV/DVR/etc. that can simply be plugged in, "authorized" and can do whatever it needs to.
I will not submit to buying a Tivo, having to pay additional fees, and on top of that atrocity, be forced to rent a cable card. Even if I could buy a cable card, the fees on a Tivo are silly.
In the analog world, you could buy a "cable ready" VCR, plug it in, and record whatever was able to be tuned.
When there is a DVR/DVD recorder/Blu-Ray recorder/whatever that you can just buy, plug in, and record with - WITHOUT any additional fees, need for (rented) card, etc. I would be interested.
Needing a separate "DTA" is even worse IMHO. Don't think they're necessarily a bad idea, just that there should be no need for one with newer devices.
A new TV/DVR/etc. should come with a "cable ready" tuner that can receive services paid for, even if it needs to be authenticated. Adding another fee, a rented card, and headache, is a step backwards.
CE makers want to provide exactly that, but are forced to compromise for now with this sub-standard, antiquated mess of a solution. There needs to be a better way, and it should be sooner rather than later.
I don't know much about "true 2-way" or whatever other technology is in the works, but there are ideas out there that should be realized soon, and could be, if the cable industry would let them be.
Again, even if I could buy a cable card, I'd probably still have to pay some "un-fee" just to get it working. Even if that worked, what about other TVs/DVRs/etc. in the house? No thanks.
That "6 tuner" solution posted above looks neat and all, but there again - you're still at the mercy of the cable company and needing to rent in most cases. Say I bought the card, still not good enough of a solution as it's yet another added step/hurdle/cost that shouldn't even exist when better solutions could work instead.
I'm not saying I have the best answer. I'm not saying a regular STB doesn't have its place. I'm just saying that we should have a better option for the future. Sure, a rented box from the cable co would still be a good option for some cases, and people would still rent them. If all you wanted though, was just to plug in your freaking device, have it work, and be done with it, it'd sure be nice to have it work like it did in the analog world; otherwise, anything less simple is a step backwards for both customer and provider. | |
| majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| how does a cablecard May I ask how a cablecard would erode settop box revenues? Cablevision only charges like $5 a month. Considering how much cablevision pays for each box that is no profit at all.
Also what actually uses a cablecard? Tivo? Somne tv's (my samsung 6000 led which is 4 months old can't use a cablecard) and like 1 or 2 tv tuners for the computer.
The reason why not many are used is because not many devices actually use them . Also tivo to many is not cost effective.
Also I dont want to have to deal with an sdv plus a cablecard. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: how does a cablecard said by majortom1029 :May I ask how a cablecard would erode settop box revenues? Cablevision only charges like $5 a month. Considering how much cablevision pays for each box that is no profit at all. Cablevision doesn't pay as much money for boxes as you think they do. Plus most cable companies charge exorbitant fees for their DVRs (the more DVRs you have, the higher the fee per box).
Even with the boxes, cablecard devices erode revenue, because current cablecard devices can't get VoD or PPV which is the cable companies break and butter.
The cable companies really have no one to blame but themselves for this though, since they took so long to come up with the cablecard standard and failed to include any kind of 2-way communications into the standard.
Tru2way will take care of this, if the cable companies ever actually get around to implementing it, but it does nothing for the existing cablecard devices out there.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | magnushsi
join:2002-11-06
Cedar Springs, MI
| Re: how does a cablecard Actually you would be suprised how much CVC and others, do pay for boxes. Depending on the fee it's typically 2+ years (or more) for a cable company to pay for the box. Yes cable companies eventually make money on boxes, but it does take a while. You have to factor in warehousing, techs to stage, repair, etc.
Why is it the cable companies fault to come up with a standard? Its actually cablelabs responsibility. And they certainly did include a 2 way standard from day one. S-Cards have ALWAYS supported 2 way, DAVIC and DOCSIS. The CE vendors just failed to implement it. | |
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Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: how does a cablecard said by magnushsi :Why is it the cable companies fault to come up with a standard? Its actually cablelabs responsibility. And they certainly did include a 2 way standard from day one. S-Cards have ALWAYS supported 2 way, DAVIC and DOCSIS. The CE vendors just failed to implement it. Look up who makes up CableLabs and you'll see why it's the cable companies' fault. Hint Cablelabs was founded by the cable companies.
As for the 2-way standard, there wasn't any that's the problem. Yes, the cards could handle 2-way communication, but it was up the the host device to implement the 2-way communication. There was no standard for the host device to follow, hence the problem.
There are a variety of 2-way communication protocols in use by cable companies in different areas of the country (none of them standards) and it was impractical for CE manufacturers to implement them all. Even if a CE manufacturer could do so, in order for a host device to get Cablelabs certified it couldn't implement a transmitter, which means it couldn't do 2-way communications anyway.
Tru2way is the first industry wide 2-way communication protocol standard and it still hasn't been implemented yet by cable companies despite them having a July 2009 deadline.
So yes, it was Cablelabs (and by extension the cable companies) fault.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | | | magnushsi
join:2002-11-06
Cedar Springs, MI
| said by magnushsi :Actually you would be suprised how much CVC and others, do pay for boxes. Depending on the fee it's typically 2+ years (or more) for a cable company to pay for the box. Yes cable companies eventually make money on boxes, but it does take a while. You have to factor in warehousing, techs to stage, repair, etc. Why is it the cable companies fault to come up with a standard? Its actually cablelabs responsibility. And they certainly did include a 2 way standard from day one. S-Cards have ALWAYS supported 2 way, DAVIC and DOCSIS. The CE vendors just failed to implement it. I'm very familiar with how it was founded. So I will agree that cable companies are tied to cable labs, but so are CE vendors, software developers etc.etc.etc.
As far as a 2 way standard, thats not exactly correct, and I quote:
"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers"
You are somewhat correct, there are 3 OOB communication protocols used by traditional cable companies, DAVIC 55-1, 55-2 and DSG. You can't say it was impractical, the major cablebox manufactures have boxes deployed that support those standards. Not true regarding certification. Depends on what they device was getting its certification for. More readind for you:
"There are three distinct languages (or protocols) that are used on cable systems for the two-way communications: (1) Aloha (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-1 standard, used by Motorola systems); (2) DAVIC (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-2 standard, used by Scientific Atlanta systems); and (3) DSG (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE-106 DOCSIS Set-top Gateway standard, used by a variety of cable systems). All three protocols transmit their upstream signals on channels in the 5 MHz to 42 MHz frequency band. In order for a Host to support two-way services on any cable system, it must be capable of transmitting upstream signals using any of the three protocols. Only products compliant with the OpenCable Host specifications include the transmitters capable of supporting all three upstream protocols. Products built to the Plug & Play or Digital Cable Ready (DCR) FCC requirements are unidirectional only, and do not include these transmitters and are unable to support two-way services.
On the other hand, CableCARD modules always were designed to support two-way functionality, including the original CableCARD 1.0 interface specifications. The CableCARD module includes the knowledge of the upstream transmission standards and protocols used by each cable operator and is able to format and prepare messages for that protocol. Those upstream messages are sent to the Host device for transmission (when so equipped). The upstream transmitter also is under the complete control of the CableCARD module to set frequency and output power. CableCARD modules are equipped to recognize the presence of these upstream transmitters in an OpenCable Host device and to use them as necessary. They also are able to detect the absence of this transmitter in a unidirectional Host and to operate in a one-way mode."
Tru2Way is NOT a 2 way communication protocol. ADSG is the communication protocol and it's been around for a while. | |
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dddane
join:2002-01-10
Chicago, IL
| as a comcast business customer, i blame comcast 100%. i think it's been said, but this all seems like a political ploy to be anti-tivo in support of their own devices.
what's ironic in my situation is we only have Tivo HD boxes because Comcast will NOT offer business accounts their own DVR boxes... (they say they don't offer businesses DVRs because you could be a bar and DVR shows and replay them for customers, etc.... a policy I can understand, but makes no sense. 1) they *REQUIRE* us to pay them a $50 on site installation fee every time we activate a new box or cablecard. 2) because of this they've been in our OFFICE and know there aren't any bar patrons to be found...
so ironically, that forces us to a third party DVR. and as far as HD DVRs go, there are few if any that will accept a component or HDMI input and record from that. almost all i've found require you to put a cablecard in. (which seems like a shot in the foot to Tivo that they can't come up with a better way to at least offer the option of recording an input.. after all they no longer support satellite customers because of this).
Our solution has been to order HD Tivos, then order cablecards from Comcast. ...For business customers that's another interesting mess. comcast has a whole "business" department to handle all of our needs, but apparently they don't have a "business" side to handle cablecards. these are handled by the residential side.
The first time i ordered a cablecard it took 3 technician visits over the course of a week and a half; each time it was essentially a provisioning issue and the techs knew this the second they saw it... i knew it before they scheduled the techs for that matter, but the people on the phone just don't seem to know what they're doing.
last time i ordered a cablecard from comcast, it took about 3 weeks to get it working. they came out with one that wasn't provisioned properly, only a few channels were coming in. the technician tried to blame it on our box of course, until i put the card into a different box that was previously working. That quickly turned into a "well it's an account" issue (I agreed...), and a week later i was still arguing that it probably was in fact a provisioning issue, yet still something on their side to resolve, not something i had any control over. They ended up deciding it would be quicker/easier to just swap out the card with a new cablecard (another side effect of having the residential side handle them is its over a week quicker in scheduling time to order new devices than schedule a repair appointment)... For this, they even let me come in to pick it up... (something i've begged them for many times... just to be able to go pickup a cablebox or card... it's silly we have to schedule a tech to come in a cable box when we're a television broadcaster and know how to handle it). i picked up a new card and of course it too wasn't provisioned right. Of course they blamed it on the fact that I picked it up and somehow the people didn't know how to provision it when they gave me my order... a few days later it was all straightened out.
What's ironic (maybe?) is we have about 10 motorola digital cable boxes with a little bump out in back with a removable plate... during the cablecard provisioning debacles, i removed the plate and found it was just a cablecard that operated the cable box. i put the cable card from that motorola box into the tivo and everything worked fine and dandy...
Why can they have no problem provisioning a cable box that has a Cablecard in it (which they still use the serial # for the cable card itself, not the box to provision), but somehow when it's a stand-alone cablecard it's a load of troubles? i think they're purposely screwing it all up to make you not want to get more cablecards. (and i'd be happy not getting more cablecards if their own policies didn't force me to them--their own DVRs are a much cheaper solution).
In summary, we pay Comcast about $2500 a month for our cable service in our office, and they treat us like dirt.
The extra truck rolls are their own fault. | |
| | majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| Re: as a comcast business customer, i blame comcast 100%. IF you actually look how much the cable companies chharge you for a box avs how much the company buys each box for you will see they make no profit off of it.
Its more of a customer service thing then a profit thing. I would think the cablecompanies would love to have to not provide the boxes .It would costs them less in customer support.
The problem is with cablecards they dont support all the things like sdv and stuff like that.
All the cablecompanies look like they all want tru2way so we should start seeing better boxes and more 3rd party boxes once that takes off. | |
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dddane
join:2002-01-10
Chicago, IL
1 edit | Re: as a comcast business customer, i blame comcast 100%. actually one small hint that was dropped in there was they lose VOD revenue because of cablecard.
you can't do VOD on a cablecard (at least with tivo you can't... given that some cable company's cable boxes are powered by cablecards though, it seems like you should be able to get VOD if the device itself supports the technology... but again tivo does not support VOD w/ cablecard and i bet others don't either).
they do receive some revenues from video on demand... and they also get revenues from the ads that display on your guide on your cable box. and they can also potentially aggregate viewing information and sell that out even. also, having a tivo present instead of a cable box has the potential to suck away pay per view money too.
there's a lot of profit to be made from having a cable box in your home vs a cablecard. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Its more of a customer service thing then a profit thing. I would think the cablecompanies would love to have to not provide the boxes .It would costs them less in customer support. Yes I think the cable logic is why go out of their way to fund training and support for a technology that ultimately takes away one VOD and PPV customer or box renter.
Which makes business sense, but then to push overall embedded device numbers and total consumer adoption stats as evidence consumers don't want them seems a bit obnoxious. | |
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Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA
| Re: as a comcast business customer, i blame comcast 100%. reps DO get training and DO have support documents at fingertips. Not everyone makes use of this or still are clueless about them. But I will say I do often have people ask about cable cards, I am more then happy to set them up with them. We DO have to mention that the comcast guide doesn't come in and VoD doesn't come in as well as if I didn't then it is misleading, more often then not unless the person has a Tivo they will say nevermind about the card.
There are some Tru2way tv's out there which should allow access to VoD with a cablecard and hopefully we will see more people using cards. | |
| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
1 edit | DRM and Cablecard rental What about DRM that makes the whole system useless? Why should I upgrade to battery killing, RAM wasting, lagging UI Windows 7 and deal with the DRM? And rental /outlet fees for the cablecard that make a cable box have much bang for the buck? | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
VerizonCynic
join:2006-10-25
Lakewood, CA
·Verizon FIOS
|  fios and M card
The cable cos and phone cos are not going to mention these card when they are happy to rent DVR's for over 20.00 mo. This is just like the old days when they got rich renting crappy phones for 40 years. Then deregulation came. This time they are smarter. Lets try to keep this option hidden from the public and when they call us we will discourage their using third party DVR's by saying scary things like "well you can go bu a dvr for 400.00 but we cannot guarantee that it will work on our system" How do I know this? because it has happened to my dad. He does not know any better. Like most FIOS customers. | |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ | Re: fios and M card Apart from Windows MC, I think there were just two others - TiVo and Moxi (digeo). | |
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rahlquist
Redeye
join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA
| This is a noble goal but.. The problem is (and I am surprised com cast hasnt sued over the unfairness) the sat companies cant do this and it needs to be a level playing field. If every distribution medium could use a tuner card like this cable/phone/network/sat then more tv's etc would support them as well.
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Fed Up With Stupidity?
Patentlystupid.com | |
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IGGY
No Guru Just Here To Help
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-30
Chatham, IL
| Wow thought people around here had a clue
GUESS I SHOULD JUST START TYPING ALL MY REPLIES HERE IN ALL CAPS & CALLING PEOPLE MORONIC NOOBS!!
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Test PC Security
Cable Diagnostics
Blog
ZoneAlarm Help Windows 7 Comcast BroadVox Direct | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Wow thought people around here had a clue 99.3% of the time I use (pdf) with pdf links. I didn't this time, but I've fixed my error. I do hope you'll forgive me. | |
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CurGeorge8
join:2005-05-02
Pittsburgh, PA
| Fios and Cable Cards I was one of the first Fios TV subs in my area (Metro Pitt) when it came out. Having been using a tivo with comcast, I wanted to keep my tivo and use the fios cable cards.
When the installer showed up, he admitted he didn't really know how to set them up, but was real cool about it. We worked at it together for the better part of a day, reading through tivo online support notes, comparing them with his internal setup instructions. Well, day one left us with no success, so he tells me he will be back tomorrow with "reinforcements."
The next day he's back with 3 other guys, one of who personally has a tivo with cable cards. They all have a little "class" in my basement on how to set the things up, how to activate the cable cards, ect ect. | |
| LibertyMO
join:2005-02-05
Liberty, MO
| Being able to buy a cable box What I am irritated about, and I know there is a lawsuit or two out there that have been mentioned is that you cannot buy a standalone cable box (w/o DVR). I have two TWC DVR boxes (1 SD/1 HD), and a couple of other TVs hooked up to standard cable. Why can't I buy a cable box for $50 or whatever it costs, plug in a cable card? I don't want to spend the money on a media PC, and I don't want to pay TiVO, either.
I think that is a significant reason why cable cards are not tht successful is either a) you have a TV that supports it, b) TiVO or other DVR, or c) a PC. Allow us to buy a cable box, and I'll be buy to start paying for cable cards. I just can't justify the exorbitant prices TWC charges for non-DVR boxes. | |
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rv65
Let's just say I like Dublin Dr Pepper
Premium
join:2008-08-02
San Diego, CA | Re: Being able to buy a cable box The retail STB spec hasn't been finalized yet. An HD non DVR box would cost around 150 to 300 USD while a DVR would cost about 400 to 800. Then you'd have to rent a cablecard plus some other BS fee. | |
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Cable companies are NOT marketing arm for TIVO & others