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replace itreplace it with a broadband streaming application that used dlna in smart TV's then they won't have to charge a rental fee for access to hardware. | |
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| TSWYO Premium Member join:2003-05-03 Cheyenne, WY |
TSWYO
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 2:33 pm
Re: replace itSee you don't rent the box in most cases, its the "Programming Access Fee" or some other similar term. So they would still charge the $7-ish every provider charges.
You can buy your own system compatible box and they still charge full boat. | |
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to tmc8080
You don't really need cable cards anymore. Most devices support HMDI ports. | |
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Re: replace itHow does HDMI let you view encrypted cable channels? | |
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| | tshirt Premium Member join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA |
to brianiscool
Totally different purpose. Cable card is an authorizing/permission device only. and HDMI is an input port standard. even if your TiVo has HDMI it also need the cablecard to get permission/instruction to decode ONLY those channels you pay for. Cable card one was a clumsy standard force on the CATV industry. while cable card 2 received marginal hardware support due to the failure of CC1. The actual CATV and hardware industry have tried offering several different solutions, cheap to embed in every device...potentially a real, usable standard only to see it pushed away by one of the four table legs (regulators, content owners, hardware suppliers, CATV providers) each afraid of losing control over their own segment. Until you find something all for can support that is cheap enough and transparent enough for the least technical consumer, you will be stuck with the overpriced and extremely limited Cablecard standard. | |
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joe2
Anon
2013-Aug-23 3:00 pm
Re: replace itIt's called IPTV or streaming and Netflix is not the only game in town. (Got Xfinity here) | |
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skeechanAi Otsukaholic Premium Member join:2012-01-26 AA169|170
1 recommendation |
skeechan
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 2:31 pm
Latta should be in prison for taking the bribesLooks like TWC and Comcast outbid Motorola for Latta's allegiance. » www.opensecrets.org/poli ··· newmem=N | |
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IowaCowboyLost in the Supermarket Premium Member join:2010-10-16 Springfield, MA |
Break up the cable monopolyMy standpoint is the cable providers responsibility should end where the cable line enters the house. I think if the FCC and congress was doing its job properly, the set tops/modems/gateways would be the customers responsibility. Ma Bell had her turn and Big Cable will someday meet its fate. Customer backlash tore town Ma Bell and if history repeats itself, may someday tear down big cable. | |
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| rradina join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO |
Re: Break up the cable monopolyAt the risk of defending cable, a bit of this has to be the fault of content providers. Content providers want their content protected to prevent unauthorized viewing and distribution. I think they like the idea that most folks view their content with a device that is owned by those directly licensed to distribute.
Cable cards potentially enable all kinds of consumer-friendly time displacement equipment (sling box, Tivo, Window Media PCs and MythTV PCs) that they don't like.
Maybe I'm being paranoid but I see mutual benefit for both the distributor and the creator to eliminate such consumer-friendly tech. | |
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| | Cobra11M join:2010-12-23 Mineral Wells, TX |
Re: Break up the cable monopolywell it does that and another thing for the cable industry.. it allows the cable industry to charge fully what they want for a box rental.. thats unacceptable, with this they could raise the price of tivo, or any set top box they choose.. just because.. people are already paying out the nose for a service thats crap.. in fact we dropped down to basic cable because we where fed up with the channels messing up, and or not showing anything but commercials 24/7 (especially late night) | |
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| | xrobertcmx Premium Member join:2001-06-18 White Plains, MD |
to rradina
Very true, when we paid $20 a month for the Verizon multi-room DVR and $10 for another HD box it was impossible to get a single thing off of the DVR without jumping through serious hoops. Now that I have a working mythtv setup I can do what I want with it and don't have to worry about space. Sure we lost on demand and pay channels, but we didn't use them. At the same time the gained serious functionality with adding our entire movie library to the backend, full online viewing on the frontends with Hulu, CBS, ABC, Amazon Prime, etc... I love my cable card. | |
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anon_anon to rradina
Anon
2013-Aug-20 7:37 am
to rradina
One counterexample on how customer owned equipment still "protects content" is the Roku STB. Nobody has broken the encryption on it AFAIK. I can have multiple boxes without paying Netflix or Amazon extra for the privilege. Why more content is unavailable to Netflix and Amazon is issues with the old physical media business model that the media industry is seeking to protect, not issues with the DRM.
Cable box fees are a huge cash cow for the cable operators. They aren't going to give them up without an act of congress. | |
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KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
Kearnstd
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 3:11 pm
Why is there no DOCSIS for video?as in I can buy a DOCSIS3 modem and the cable company pushes out a config file that says how fast it can go. So why cant there be something that lets someone buy a box and the cable company merely pushes out a config that says what channels they get. | |
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Re: Why is there no DOCSIS for video?That is what the cable card is meant to accomplish | |
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| | MikeMcDuck Premium Member join:2013-08-19 Worcester, MA |
Re: Why is there no DOCSIS for video?Yes, that is how it works. I currently have two Cablecards in my house, one on a Ceton PCI-Express tuner card and the other in a Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime.The first one took several calls and a technician trip to get going, but the newer one started ttle trouble. | |
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Re: Why is there no DOCSIS for video?That should have been "started with little trouble." However, every once in a while I come home to find a message that a recording could not be done because there was no signal on that channel. but then when I check the recorded TV shows, there it is!
On top of that, once in the four months I have had the newest card I had to contact Charter and get it re-activated to get the premium channels. That took two calls.
My setup: Self-assembled HTPC with AMD A10 processor and Ceton quad tuner. Cablecard and Cisco tuning adapter from charter.
BTW I had to cut my previous posting short because I am on Amtrak and they just announced that they were switching us to another train. | |
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Re: Why is there no DOCSIS for video?Oh, and Microsoft Windows 8 with Windows Media Center. On my Android phone I can control it remotely with the Ceton MyMediaCenter app. | |
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Re: Why is there no DOCSIS for video?I second that, but I couldn't get myself to upgrade to Win 8 but it works just fine with Windows 7. I use a Nexus 7 to control, and between that and my new Chromecast friends want to come over. Toobad I only have SelectHD, so that means no real sports...
And Verizon cablecard support is awesome. You get the card, go online and activate it. 5 minutes and you are a go.
Time Warner, not. They failed after 3 days to get mine going and I cancelled their a$$. That and that SDV albatross from Cisco...You can have it TWC and the 15 watts that POS takes.
Only once they had headend probs and I was offline 3 days until I manually called to get it back on. I actually went two days before noticing because TBH I dont watch cable anymore so I could care less if they get rid of CC, I will just get rid of cable.
I've been using W7MC for 3 years, and have 5 extenders. My W7MC runs in a VM, so it runs with my other systems.
I did a calculation and after 3 years with all the hardware investment, HDHRP I am at $2.50 per box per month, including the full cost of my hardware (which I share for other things).
The big reason is once I am done w/ my Xboxes I can sell them and recoup much of the cost (I got them all refurb for no more than $130) when I am done with the setup, and that is based upon getting $80, which right now I can get more. | |
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to MikeMcDuck
I am using the same card and get that message all the time. WMC grabs a tuner and tries to change the channel. At that point something times out, I suspect before the channel changes, giving you that message. WMC grabs the next tuner and all is good. | |
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Arty50 Premium Member join:2003-10-04 |
Arty50
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 3:20 pm
Shooting themselves in the footIf they kill CableCard, I will be killing my TV subscription. Period. | |
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| Cobra11M join:2010-12-23 Mineral Wells, TX |
Re: Shooting themselves in the footI agree, they are digging there own grave.. if the cable company's want to become a dumb pipe so be it! | |
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88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2013-Aug-19 3:27 pm
What is the pointof making cable companies use cable cards in their own boxes? How does that save anyone anything? | |
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Re: What is the pointsaid by 88615298:of making cable companies use cable cards in their own boxes? How does that save anyone anything? The idea behind it is that by making them use cable cards in THEIR boxes, everyone else can also make a box that works. I don't know of any manufacturers actually making just a cable box for consumer purchase, but there are several devices that let you use the cable card. (Tivo, HDHomeRun Prime, etc) Without the requirement, cable companies will just stop activating cable cards. | |
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| batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ |
to 88615298
said by 88615298:of making cable companies use cable cards in their own boxes? How does that save anyone anything? If a "cable card" is a white credit card size object that slides in a slot than Cablevision's boxes have them. | |
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Re: What is the pointThat's the CV access card, a cable card is a PCMCIA card which is much thicker. | |
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to 88615298
What if every TV receiver made had to have a cable card slot built in? Make a whole lot more sense, and it would have really made the whole process of provisioning more familiar imo. | |
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Tech sometimes get worseOnce upon a time you simply bought your TV and plugged it into the power outlet and the cable outlet and voila cable tv. You could rinse and repeat with as many TVs as you wanted and it would not cost you a dime extra. Then digital cable came along and various corporations lined the pockets of the politicians and things aren't as easy or cheap anymore. | |
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Re: Tech sometimes get worsesaid by biochemistry:Once upon a time you simply bought your TV and plugged it into the power outlet and the cable outlet and voila cable tv. You could rinse and repeat with as many TVs as you wanted and it would not cost you a dime extra. Back in the 80's you had to pay for each room you had cable running to. End result is the tech would leave and the home owner would go connect up as many rooms as wanted for free. It happen so much that the cable companies gave up on charging per room. There were also boxes for HBO etc. those became so easy to buy a hacked one that they were everywhere. It goes around and around but this time around the cable company does have a undefeatable system to make you pay for each box and as I know of no way to hack it. File sharing is the one problem cable companies can't stop but they are trying their best. | |
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| | Cobra11M join:2010-12-23 Mineral Wells, TX |
Re: Tech sometimes get worsethey are setting them selves up for a dumb pipe with this one.. people will cancel, I already have dropped TV.. require me to have a set top box that cost anything in rental and you can shove it.. Suddenlink im talking to you!, Suddenlinks boxes here are 10+ years old and yet would love nothing more than to charge 10+ for it every month | |
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| 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
to biochemistry
said by biochemistry:Once upon a time you simply bought your TV and plugged it into the power outlet and the cable outlet and voila cable tv. You could rinse and repeat with as many TVs as you wanted and it would not cost you a dime extra. Then digital cable came along and various corporations lined the pockets of the politicians and things aren't as easy or cheap anymore. Except if people could plug the cable into their TV then they have to offer clear QAM for people to get all channels without a box. Of course cable theft would rise greatly and cable companies would understandably pass that cost into the consumer. Try blaming the thieving cheapskates for his situation. | |
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jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 3:39 pm
Deja VuThis reminds of the time when I was forced to rent a clunky, featureless phone from the telephone company at an outrageous rate. To help the consumers, similar changes need to be applied with cable boxes. | |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny Yours MVM join:2001-08-03 Grand Rapids, MI |
The holdup on cablecardsSo whats the thing holding cablecards back? The cost of the equipment to use your own box. Right now, a Tivo is around $200 plus $15 a month. I built my own HTPC with a Ceton Tuner card and my setup was $800. Most people look at the $10 rental fee and they are ok with it. My $800 investment will need to be updated eventually. At the same time though, I save a bundle by not having to pay for rental boxes since I use Xbox 360 Extenders now. Still, from a pure pricing standpoint, you aren't going to go into the cable card route without paying the same if not more than the rental DVR.
The Tivo will also need to be updated, plus you have to pay the monthly charge for Tivo too.
I think they should have to retain cablecard support. I know why they are doing away with them though. They cost more to maintain and support. Not many people are adopting them. The only way more people start adopting them is if there is a price point that people can see some cost savings. Right now, the only benefit is to the enthusiast. | |
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Ironically...... one of the reasons we don't subscribe to cable TV is we don't want the clunky outboard cable box.
Jim | |
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IanR join:2001-03-22 Fort Mill, SC |
IanR
Member
2013-Aug-19 3:54 pm
No CableCards and I ditch CableI've had it with the Cable company's unfriendly stance. I use multiple CCs with TIVO and WMC and it gives me so much better an experience and control. I think the Cable companies are their own worst enemies and any politician who bows to them...well has lost my vote. | |
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| Cobra11M join:2010-12-23 Mineral Wells, TX |
Re: No CableCards and I ditch CableAGREED! | |
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rody_44 Premium Member join:2004-02-20 Quakertown, PA |
rody_44
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 3:56 pm
This is just karl mish mash logic It never made sense to require cable companies to use cable cards in there boxes. They have the same ability without cable cards. Its like requiring chevy to mount a ford transmission behind a chevy transmission. This bill just rites a wrong. This bill has zero to do with doing away with cable cards from a customer side. This bill doesnt stop you from using a cable card. It does NOTHING but lower the cost of a STB. | |
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| Cobra11M join:2010-12-23 Mineral Wells, TX |
Re: This is just karl mish mash logicyou sure about that one | |
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AnonMe to rody_44
Anon
2013-Aug-20 7:37 am
to rody_44
It's not about cable companies being required to use cable cards in THIER boxes, it's about requiring them to support cable cards if someone wants to buy their own box or own TV that supports a cable card. Imagine only needing one remote for your TV and not needing a separate big box from the cable company - wouldn't that be a unique concept. Ha ha! Anyway, that's the idea behind it.
Additionally, Comcast does charge a monthly fee to rent a cable card from them. Not quite as much as a box, but pretty damn close considering the cable card is only a small fraction of functionality that the cable box hardware provides. | |
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Trimline Premium Member join:2004-10-24 Windermere, FL |
Trimline
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 4:03 pm
I had a Cable Card, but returned it last week.The cable card was connected to a Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime - but Bright House, had this huge box attached to it - a tuning adapter. I mean, what's the point? The Silicon Dust HD Homerun Prime unit is a sleek, small unit that the card plugs in to. That should have been it, but no, to get it to work, I needed to plug it in to a power sucking tuning adapter. Didn't make any sense, the cable card should have done everything.
So I returned the tuning adapter and the card then cancelled cable TV. I ended up buying a digital antenna, put it in my attic and ran that in to the SiliconDust HDHomeRun DUAL High Definition Digital TV Tuner. Along with the Roku and Amazon Prime, I'm not missing a thing.
Wireless now, all my HTTP have over 56 HD stations available at no monthly cost. And I have to say, the picture is so much better now, way better. | |
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| esjones Premium Member join:2010-09-10 Springboro, OH |
esjones
Premium Member
2013-Aug-26 3:26 pm
Re: I had a Cable Card, but returned it last week.The way I understand it, as cable companies move channels to SDV (switched digital video) to get more channel capacity from existing infrastructure, the new SDV technology is incompatible with CableCARD. The tuning adapter is a workaround, and I for one am grateful to have one. Especially since TWC isn't charging me extra for it. | |
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AnonTWCsub
Anon
2013-Aug-19 4:20 pm
Cable Ready box/dvr The only problem with cablecard is that there isn't much device the consumer can purchase to use like a regular cable box. There is Tivo with a monthly fee which is why most ppl don't jump on it. There was Sony DHG500 which soon meet it doom and is out dated. There are other way mention but it require a WMC pc not like a regular box huh. There was Moxi DVR no monthly fee but expensive at 700$ soon got purchase by Arias and kill the consumer dvr. There is a lil light at the end of the tunnel for cablecard and is Sumsang that is planning this fall realease a cablecard ready box for consumer which I'm looking forward to since a miss out on Moxi and Sony DHG. Killing cable card is just the industry way to not let there cable box rental die 15$ a month, no thx I'll take a cablecard and buy my own device. Sanmsung cablecard box: » www.lightreading.com/doc ··· d=702886» www.digitaltrends.com/ho ··· top-box/ | |
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on the other hand..bittorrent and streaming websites will kill off a general need for subscriptions altogether. too much of these rising fees and very little willingness on the consumer to pay ever higher fees for essentally what is about 6-8 viewing hours per day of video. that is easily handled by most people's broadband access (and for the most part, unless your on cellphone broadband data doesn't run afoul of usage caps & overages where they apply).
most internet streaming solutions would prefer ethernet to hdmi or wifi (when connected to smart hdtv/dlna) rather than coax/qam. there simply won't be a need for cablecards anymore. you just a need for smarter hdtv apps to access content on the internet via various platforms like rouk, xbmc, netflix, dlna (developed into more robust versions),etc in the interim, HTPCs, media boxes or tablets can serve as the conduits. | |
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amungus Premium Member join:2004-11-26 America |
amungus
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 7:44 pm
IdiotsThis is so damn convoluted. There's no reason a TV, or any other device can't come with some way to be "cable ready."
I feel for those with cablecard based tuners, and even a tiny twinge of feeling for Tivo and its users. Tivo, though I believe to be somewhat overpriced, is at least a solid option, and its users seem pretty die hard.
The point is, there's no reason a person should not be able to BUY their preferred method of access, whether that's analog (sorry to see it dying) and a "cable ready" TV, VCR, DVD recorder, tuner card, etc., digital, with cablecard, or a device with a QAM tuner.
There's no reason a QAM tuner can't have one simple addition - a MAC address. Seriously. Plug your TV in, get a couple channels from cable (still think it was a bad idea to encrypt EVERYTHING, but oh well), make sure your signal works - then call cable folks, read them your MAC address, and be subscribed to your package of choice.
I went pure OTA some time ago, but now have Dish at the house. The box is a pure mess compared to WMC. Sure, it's ok, but it's nowhere near as nice as WMC.
The biggest gripe I have is NEEDING to have a damn box, and payment of tons of extra fees for "digital gateway," "DVR service," "rental," etc. etc. etc, for every TV. Cable was good when it was paired with "cable ready" devices, and zero need for an extra box.
My media center will probably have to be OTA forever, even after the Dish contract expires (and I will hopefully convince the other person that it's a waste of money...). On the topic of sat. service, everyone always seems to think "well, they make you have a box, why not cable?" ...and misses the point... cable is meant to be completely different. Why does a TV come with a QAM tuner? To decode f*cking cable channels. Why does it come with an analog tuner? To decode OTA *and* cable channels (though this is dying slowly). Point is, sat. services beam you a signal directly from a satellite, and I don't expect every TV to have such a complicated tuner. AT&T pipes TV through a phone line, which is flat out crazy, and I don't expect a TV to have a "tuner" that does that either. It's pretty amazing that "smart" TVs have Netflix... and that brings up another point - Cable companies COULD conceivably pipe their service through a data line, and just have you sign in. With such a setup, you could then again have "cable ready" pretty quickly, if TV makers (and other device makers) simply had an app that "tuned" to your account...... without additional monthly fees
If they really want to do this, there needs to be a solid alternative that has ZERO additional monthly fee simply to access a set of channels that is paid for. I would very much rather have no box, or my own media center that I don't have to continue paying for than ANY box from ANY provider. | |
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be like canada and let us buy the cable box with no outletbe like canada and let us buy the cable box with no outlet or mirroring fees. | |
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Caddyroger Premium Member join:2001-06-11 To the west |
People who do not have internet serviceTheir is one problem with of the posts here. Everyone takes for granted that every has internet or high speed service. What ever they come up with it will need to be able to work with out internet service for the people that does not want or need internet service. | |
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jasqidFiber In Your Diet? join:2002-04-02 East Palestine, OH |
jasqid
Member
2013-Aug-19 9:15 pm
End GameWell, from what I see is that all these cable companies WILL eventually become just a dumb pipe. All I need is a fast internet connection and I will get my content where I want. I ditch cable and satellite back in May and haven't looked back. I got a Netflix/Hulu/Amazon sub and use the Xbox to purchase a Season pass of shows I cant get through the streamers. OTA for my football and live sports... Im good.
I think this is why Comcast went after NBC so they could get in the content business. | |
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Re: End GameBut with data caps aren't the cable companies getting themselves poised to start going metered service or some plan to charge more for the service thus increasing their revenues. This would/could offset the future loss of tv subscribers and cable box rental fees. And like caddyroger not everyone wants internet and rural areas are not going to have fast internet services. At least for now. I always thought boxes were a bad idea. You think there would be a better way for them to secure the lines from cable theft or whatever they are concerned about letting us use our tvs the way they were meant to function. | |
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BiggA Premium Member join:2005-11-23 Central CT |
BiggA
Premium Member
2013-Aug-19 11:15 pm
Dumping ComcastIf this goes through, I'm dumping Comcast. The cable companies with half a brain would still support CableCard without a mandate, as if they dropped CC support, they would lose the TiVo subscribers to DirecTV or OTA pretty much overnight. | |
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