Cable: Let Us Experiment With Pricing Or The Internet ExplodesWell golly, if you put it that way... ( old news - 04:46PM Wednesday May 20 2009) tags: prices · competition · business · hardware · alternatives · bandwidth · Op/Ed · legislation · consumers · capsBecause apparently an organization that spent $14.4 million last year on lobbying just doesn't get enough face time, Ars Technica gives cable lobbyist and NCTA boss Kyle McSlarrow a podium to wax poetic about alternative broadband pricing schemes. During the Time Warner Cable debate over metered billing, McSlarrow played blog patty cake with consumer advocates, proclaiming that Time Warner Cable was simply transparently testing alternative billing models. Ars helps McSlarrow portray a kinder, gentler cable industry: According to McSlarrow, there's no particular rush to pick one business model, and the industry has no "grand plan" hashed out by cigar-smoking executives in clubby back rooms. In his view, though, cable needs to do the experiments to make sure that the Internet survives the coming bandwidth apocalypse. In his view, though, cable needs to do the experiments to make sure that the Internet survives the coming bandwidth apocalypse. -Ars Technica, on NCTA Lobbying boss Kyle McSlarrow |
But Time Warner Cable, one of the NCTA's biggest members, was in a rush. Instead of implementing high caps that targeted just the heaviest users, seemingly detached executives stumbled lustfully for the holy grail of broadband pricing: low caps and high overages that intentionally impact all households, designed to deter and/or monetize competing Internet video delivery. McSlarrow insists to Ars his heart isn't set on any particular model, though you can be damn sure the member companies who pay his salary are drooling over the idea of per-byte billing. McSlarrow doesn't help his case by perpetuating the myth that a bandwidth apocalypse is looming if we don't allow cable operators to freely experiment with charging you more money for less product. The idea that consumers don't want carriers to experiment with better pricing is a myth to begin with. Consumers would be perfectly happy with innovative new pricing -- even caps -- if they see they're not being ripped off and limitations are clear and reasonable. So far, cable operators haven't proposed any pricing schemes that innovate above and beyond the existing flat-rate model. Given cable's history with price hikes, you can't blame consumers for doubting that the cable industry's idea of pricing innovation will serve the consumers' interest. Like every other cable executive, McSlarrow doesn't provide, and Ars doesn't press for, hard data justifying why a move away from the flat-rate billing model is even necessary in the first place -- given the costs to provide broadband are dropping, growth rates are easily manageable, and DOCSIS 3.0 upgrades are relatively inexpensive. We've repeatedly debunked the "Exaflood" as a public relations stunt by broadband carriers and their PR tendrils, yet Mcslarrow quickly trots it out as example number one as to why such "experiments" were necessary. Part of the significant backlash to Time Warner Cable's plan was because the proposed caps were too low and per GB overages were too high, but equal blame can be fixed on Time Warner Cable's apparent assumption that their customers were idiots who couldn't see the carrier's real motivation. McSlarrow continues that fine tradition by insisting that the exploration of new pricing models is simply about discovering what's "best for the consumer," and not about finding a way to monetize and control a coming explosion in HD video delivery for investors. Related:- Product Spotlight - TekSavvy Solutions DSL Service
- Time Warner Cable: Let's Not Talk About Net Neutrality
- As Verizon Goes, So Goes Metered Billing
- Real Consumer Group Takes Aim At Fake Ones
- Verizon's New Wireless Pricing Is An Insult
- What Network Neutrality Is REALLY About
- Cable Industry: Shucks, Guess Nobody Wants CableCARDs
- Wall Street Journal Tries, Fails To Cover Metered Billing Debate
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 |  |  |  |  |  Luminaris
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| Re: metered billing means Well, I think what Karl means is, given a household has a 40 Gig cap per say, that cap is still there. Most households, (at least in my area) have smaller kids that will eventually use their internet which means, more of it used. Plus with the amount of video, ads etc. on each page, people don't realize just how much they actually download.
So in essence, yes, it does effect most or all households in a way. | |
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| said by baineschile :Way off Karl. A 40 Gig cap does not affect ALL households; as most internet users still are way under that threshold. Time Warner's caps were as low as 5GB with a $1 per GB in overage charges. They were taking their unlimited tiers and capping them at 5GB, 10GB, 20GB and 40GB. 40GB (until the backlash) was the highest tier they offered - for a whopping $60 a month.
After the backlash they offered to cap overage charges, which means if you pay $150 a month you can have the same product you have right now for $45 or so. They then offered a 1GB tier with a $2 per GB overage. Nice. | |
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1 edit | said by baineschile :Way off Karl. A 40 Gig cap does not affect ALL households; as most internet users still are way under that threshold. 1. Most internet users are still below 40GB huh? Your statistics to support this can be found where? I'm not a a constant video downloader/gamer/traffic user but my router shows I'm hitting 40+/month. If your definition of "most" internet users are grandmothers who check email, then your claim could be correct but the definition is not. Remember, part of that 40GB consists of various OS patches (along with patches for endless numbers of software packages), Game system updates, etc. And if a person has multiple PCs with similar configuration then it's a x2, x3, x4 scenario. Many households do have more than one PC now.
2. 40GB was TWCs HIGHEST tier at one point in their "suggested" new pricing structure unless you wanted the uber supermondoall-you-can-eat tier for a ridiculous $100 or so a month. 5GB per month for the lower tiers WILL affect MANY households which will force them to higher tiers. It will also become a bigger problem to people as additional bandwidth-using apps appear. I didn't see anything from TWCs spin doctors claiming they'd promise to raise those caps as needs required. -- Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com | |
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2 edits | Re: metered billing means said by fireflier :said by baineschile :Way off Karl. A 40 Gig cap does not affect ALL households; as most internet users still are way under that threshold. 1. Most internet users are still below 40GB huh? Your statistics to support this can be found where? I'm not a a constant video downloader/gamer/traffic user but my router shows I'm hitting 40+/month. If your definition of "most" internet users are grandmothers who check email, then your claim could be correct but the definition is not. Remember, part of that 40GB consists of various OS patches (along with patches for endless numbers of software packages), Game system updates, etc. And if a person has multiple PCs with similar configuration then it's a x2, x3, x4 scenario. Many households do have more than one PC now. 2. 40GB was TWCs HIGHEST tier at one point in their "suggested" new pricing structure unless you wanted the uber supermondoall-you-can-eat tier for a ridiculous $100 or so a month. 5GB per month for the lower tiers WILL affect MANY households which will force them to higher tiers. It will also become a bigger problem to people as additional bandwidth-using apps appear. I didn't see anything from TWCs spin doctors claiming they'd promise to raise those caps as needs required. heh but if you got more then one person using it you can use upto 400GB permonth
cable modem Noise Traffic is 5GB to 6GB all ready | |
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2 edits | Re: metered billing means said by espaeth :said by Anonymous_ :cable modem Noise Traffic is 5GB to 6GB all ready The noise traffic is broadcast traffic, and shouldn't be counted against the unicast byte counters per associated MAC on the CMTS. I've had some "drive time" on the Cisco uBR CMTS in the lab, and that traffic is definitely excluded from the reported individual modem/MAC byte totals on that platform. And if it was counted, the background noise runs about 10 kbps based on my router WAN statistics. That comes to about 3.24 GB/month »www23.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=···000+bits & not 5 or 6 as claimed.

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| Re: metered billing means said by TKJunkMail :And if it was counted, the background noise runs about 10 kbps based on my router WAN statistics. That comes to about 3.24 GB/month » www23.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=···000+bits & not 5 or 6 as claimed. [att=1] And if you have a 5 GB cap that's 65% of your cap. | |
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@comcast.net | bit off topic but where is that traffic graph from? program or router? thanks | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09 49533 | Re: metered billing means Photoshop | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   winsyrstrife River City Bounce Premium join:2002-04-30 Brooklyn, NY clubs: | Looks like DD-WRT's live bandwidth monitoring. | |
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| Re: metered billing means said by winsyrstrife :Looks like DD-WRT's live bandwidth monitoring. Yes. That is exactly what it is. It is running on a Linksys router. | |
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| said by espaeth :said by Anonymous_ :cable modem Noise Traffic is 5GB to 6GB all ready The noise traffic is broadcast traffic, and shouldn't be counted against the unicast byte counters per associated MAC on the CMTS. I've had some "drive time" on the Cisco uBR CMTS in the lab, and that traffic is definitely excluded from the reported individual modem/MAC byte totals on that platform. I'm sure they can be added as "common traffic" to all accounts, the users must pay for the basic traffic usage of any provisioned connection. | |
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| Re: metered billing means So then if the best interest of the consumer was in the mind of the cablecos...then why not price ala carte? That would drop those 5gig users to about $8 a month and those vicious bandwidth hogs would be on the hook for what they use!
The more they pay the less they use...then the cablecos would reclaim some of that precious bandwidth they're supposedly losing. | |
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| Re: metered billing means Your missing the point. The 60 or 70 or 80 percent of the people that are only utilizing 5 or 10 or even 20 gig per month are more than adequately making up for the 5 % of the people that use into the 100s of gigs. By stating that they don't, they are admitting that they have an oversold inferior network! With that admission in mind, why is it the responsibility of the consumer to upgrade a network all at once rather than over time like it should have been done in the first place. -- "When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone | |
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1 edit | said by S_engineer :The more they pay the less they use...then the cablecos would reclaim some of that precious bandwidth they're supposedly losing. Speaking of bandwidth.. won't the cablecos have mad bandwidth freed up this coming June 12 when all video broadcast/transmissions are supposed to switch to all data?
I'm sure they'll then start to drop their analog simulcast, slowly moving all subscribers needing a cable box to get all channels.. | |
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1 edit | Re: metered billing means said by beerbum :said by S_engineer :The more they pay the less they use...then the cablecos would reclaim some of that precious bandwidth they're supposedly losing. Speaking of bandwidth.. won't the cablecos have mad bandwidth freed up this coming June 12 when all video broadcast/transmissions are supposed to switch to all data? I'm sure they'll then start to drop their analog simulcast, slowly moving all subscribers needing a cable box to get all channels.. They can't drop their analog simulcast on basic channels for a couple years by FCC mandate. | |
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| Re: metered billing means said by TKJunkMail :said by beerbum :said by S_engineer :The more they pay the less they use...then the cablecos would reclaim some of that precious bandwidth they're supposedly losing. Speaking of bandwidth.. won't the cablecos have mad bandwidth freed up this coming June 12 when all video broadcast/transmissions are supposed to switch to all data? I'm sure they'll then start to drop their analog simulcast, slowly moving all subscribers needing a cable box to get all channels.. They can't drop their analog simulcast on basic channels for a couple years by FCC mandate. yes this is true.. however Comcast has a basic package and what they call expanded basic, or enhanced, or standard depending on what your region calls it - it is made up of those channels above the 20 or so channel basic plan that a DCT is not needed - those they can and have already start moving them to digital only to free up that 8MHz the analog channel was using.. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   baineschile 2600 Premium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI | The june 12th switch has nothing to do with cable bandwidth. That is OTA switching to a digital signal. | |
|  |  |  |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by espaeth :These statistics can be found various places. The MINTS project, for example, cites approximately 5GB per capita on average in the US for Internet traffic. And of course it will stay 5 GB forever. Um have you noticed the ads for Hulu on TV a lot? What happens as more and more peole start using that. I have a subscription to MLB.tv where I can watch live games on the internet. They even have them in HD at 3 Mbps stream. Watching my favorite team play their 26 games a month will use 100 GB. I wouldn't consider watching 1 baseball game a day excessive.
You link also eldues to a 50% yearly increase. Within 5 years that's 38 GB per month average. Within 8 years it's 128 GB average. Within 12 years it's 649 GB average.
By the way how come no cap on TV watching? How much bandwidth am I using when I'm watching that average 151 hours of TV per month? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   espaeth Digital Plumber Premium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
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| Re: metered billing means said by BF69 :And of course it will stay 5 GB forever. Um have you noticed the ads for Hulu on TV a lot? What happens as more and more peole start using that. You start having a lot more indicators popping up about how the current model isn't sustainable.
Insurance rates are based on statistical evaluation of past events. What do you suppose the impact would be to home owners insurance rates if instead of a major hurricane every few years to having, say, 2 major high-claim hurricanes a season? Pricing will need to adjust to new reality of the situation.
The argument made here is that your usage should be able to dramatically increase, but your monthly bill should stay the same or be lower. That position has obvious inconsistencies with reality.
said by BF69 :I have a subscription to MLB.tv where I can watch live games on the internet. They even have them in HD at 3 Mbps stream. Watching my favorite team play their 26 games a month will use 100 GB. I wouldn't consider watching 1 baseball game a day excessive. Sure, but MLB.tv had around 500,000 subscribers last year, out of 200-some million broadband subscribers in the US. That's practically a rounding error in the grand scheme of Internet statistics.
said by BF69 :You link also eldues to a 50% yearly increase. Within 5 years that's 38 GB per month average. Within 8 years it's 128 GB average. Within 12 years it's 649 GB average. 5 years is a long way away. 5 years ago we were just being introduced to the first DOCSIS 2.0 hardware that was capable of turning the 9mbps shared upstream into 27mbps shared upstream on cable plants. Keep in mind that is average growth; the demand of some folks is significantly greater than that year-to-year.
said by BF69 :By the way how come no cap on TV watching? How much bandwidth am I using when I'm watching that average 151 hours of TV per month? Because broadcast TV is infinitely more efficient. There are a vast array of one-way delivery technologies (OTA ATSC, QAM, 8PSK/QPSK, etc) that are able to push massive amounts of content to your house economically. 2-way systems are more expensive, and have the detractor of having to manage separate flows per viewer.
Broadcast TV is easy to plan for, the downstream bitrate is constant no matter how many viewers there are, and efficiently only goes up when more people are watching the same thing at the same time. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  Metatron2008
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3 edits | Re: metered billing means said by espaeth :said by BF69 :And of course it will stay 5 GB forever. Um have you noticed the ads for Hulu on TV a lot? What happens as more and more peole start using that. You start having a lot more indicators popping up about how the current model isn't sustainable. Insurance rates are based on statistical evaluation of past events. What do you suppose the impact would be to home owners insurance rates if instead of a major hurricane every few years to having, say, 2 major high-claim hurricanes a season? Pricing will need to adjust to new reality of the situation. The argument made here is that your usage should be able to dramatically increase, but your monthly bill should stay the same or be lower. That position has obvious inconsistencies with reality. said by BF69 :I have a subscription to MLB.tv where I can watch live games on the internet. They even have them in HD at 3 Mbps stream. Watching my favorite team play their 26 games a month will use 100 GB. I wouldn't consider watching 1 baseball game a day excessive. Sure, but MLB.tv had around 500,000 subscribers last year, out of 200-some million broadband subscribers in the US. That's practically a rounding error in the grand scheme of Internet statistics. said by BF69 :You link also eldues to a 50% yearly increase. Within 5 years that's 38 GB per month average. Within 8 years it's 128 GB average. Within 12 years it's 649 GB average. 5 years is a long way away. 5 years ago we were just being introduced to the first DOCSIS 2.0 hardware that was capable of turning the 9mbps shared upstream into 27mbps shared upstream on cable plants. Keep in mind that is average growth; the demand of some folks is significantly greater than that year-to-year. said by BF69 :By the way how come no cap on TV watching? How much bandwidth am I using when I'm watching that average 151 hours of TV per month? Because broadcast TV is infinitely more efficient. There are a vast array of one-way delivery technologies (OTA ATSC, QAM, 8PSK/QPSK, etc) that are able to push massive amounts of content to your house economically. 2-way systems are more expensive, and have the detractor of having to manage separate flows per viewer. Broadcast TV is easy to plan for, the downstream bitrate is constant no matter how many viewers there are, and efficiently only goes up when more people are watching the same thing at the same time. The current business model is unsunstainable?
So we should send them more money huh? The same way we sent telcos tariffs for years so they would build out FTTP, and they did nothing but keep the money?
Who do you work for?
Sorry to say this, but if they kept a majority of payments to themselves, instead of using WHAT WE ALREADY PAID to build new infastructure, and the internet didn't die, it won't. | |
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| Re: metered billing means said by Metatron2008 :The current business model is unsunstainable? At the current rate of bandwidth consumption compared to the growth of revenue, yes.
said by Metatron2008 :So we should send them more money huh? The same way we sent telcos tariffs for years so they would build out FTTP, and they did nothing but keep the money? I didn't say we should "give" them anything, I'm just saying they might need to tweak their pricing to come in line with reality. You might want to fact check a bit; the telecom act of 1996 gave tax cuts (which is not the same as handing over money) to fuel network expansion. The telcos didn't just waste the credits -- they vastly expanded their footprint for DSL by investing in remote terminal DSLAMs to push the service radius further from the COs.
It is, of course, easy to overlook the fact that it wasn't even remotely cost effective to deploy FTTP in the 90's. Passive optical distribution systems (like those used for FiOS) didn't start showing up as actual implementable products until the early to mid 2000's.
said by Metatron2008 :Who do you work for? A large healthcare company. We have a network services organization that manages the design, implementation, and operation of network infrastructure built out using carrier MPLS services, private/leased fiber plant for metro DWDM / metro-E, and extensive Internet connectivity for hosting/B2B VPN/employee VPN/Work at Home call center agents/etc all over the US. | |
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| said by espaeth :said by BF69 :And of course it will stay 5 GB forever. Um have you noticed the ads for Hulu on TV a lot? What happens as more and more peole start using that. You start having a lot more indicators popping up about how the current model isn't sustainable. Insurance rates are based on statistical evaluation of past events. What do you suppose the impact would be to home owners insurance rates if instead of a major hurricane every few years to having, say, 2 major high-claim hurricanes a season? Pricing will need to adjust to new reality of the situation. The argument made here is that your usage should be able to dramatically increase, but your monthly bill should stay the same or be lower. That position has obvious inconsistencies with reality. said by BF69 :I have a subscription to MLB.tv where I can watch live games on the internet. They even have them in HD at 3 Mbps stream. Watching my favorite team play their 26 games a month will use 100 GB. I wouldn't consider watching 1 baseball game a day excessive. Sure, but MLB.tv had around 500,000 subscribers last year, out of 200-some million broadband subscribers in the US. That's practically a rounding error in the grand scheme of Internet statistics. said by BF69 :You link also eldues to a 50% yearly increase. Within 5 years that's 38 GB per month average. Within 8 years it's 128 GB average. Within 12 years it's 649 GB average. 5 years is a long way away. 5 years ago we were just being introduced to the first DOCSIS 2.0 hardware that was capable of turning the 9mbps shared upstream into 27mbps shared upstream on cable plants. Keep in mind that is average growth; the demand of some folks is significantly greater than that year-to-year. said by BF69 :By the way how come no cap on TV watching? How much bandwidth am I using when I'm watching that average 151 hours of TV per month? Because broadcast TV is infinitely more efficient. There are a vast array of one-way delivery technologies (OTA ATSC, QAM, 8PSK/QPSK, etc) that are able to push massive amounts of content to your house economically. 2-way systems are more expensive, and have the detractor of having to manage separate flows per viewer. Broadcast TV is easy to plan for, the downstream bitrate is constant no matter how many viewers there are, and efficiently only goes up when more people are watching the same thing at the same time. If my cable was still the same 10 years ago, and i didnt get a nice increase every year, then yes I would understand your point. They make money, it's been show time and time again that MSOs/Cable CO's hate to spend capital. Because they'd rather make their sheets look good.
The only MSO is Cablevision, who actually spends capital on such investments. -- The more you talk, the less you listen. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Mark F
join:2007-08-01 Fort Wayne, IN
| More and more people are watching TV shows and movies from TV.com. CBS, AOLin2TV, IMDB, ABC, YouTube, and many are trying to find an economical way to watch such internet content on their TVs.
But, Hulu, for example, doesn't mention caps or per byte billing in their ads. That could stifle internet video. Too bad that AOL's and Hulu's classic TV can't be in cable's On Demand section. Wouldn't that ease the caps problem? Mark F. | |
|  |  |  |  |   fireflier Coffee. . .Need Coffee Premium join:2001-05-25 Limbo
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| While I realize that members of this site tend to be more advanced than the "typical" user out there, being a member of this site doesn't automatically discount that person's statistics from being representative of a significant portion of the population--if not currently, then certainly down the road. Secondly, that number is per capita and does not represent a statistical model of the population. Rather, it represents a simple division of the total traffic in the country by the number of users in that country. In the same manner that per-capita is used to represent per-capita income. It doesn't mean everyone on average makes the per capita amount. A per-capita breakdown unfortunately provides no useful information on the average, mean, standard deviation, or outlier data in a set. It also provides no insight into the distribution of that data (users), i.e. normal, binary, chi squared, lognormal, inverse gaussian, etc.
"In spite of the widespread claims of continuing and even accelerating growth rates, Internet traffic growth appears to be decelerating. In the United States, there was a brief period of "Internet traffic doubling every 100 days" back in 1995-96, but already by 1997 growth subsided towards an approximate doubling every year CO1998, and more recently even that growth rate has declined towards 50-60% per year. "
"The press is full of alarms about "exafloods" of traffic, primarily video, that might overwhelm the Internet. This is motivating calls for new business models, with many implications for issues such as "net neutrality" (see MW2007, And2007, MI2007, and McC2006). But there is very little solid data about what is happening on the network, and many conflicting estimates. As one striking example, at the end of 2005, John Chambers, the CEO of Cisco, claimed that Internet traffic was growing at about 100% per year Boslet2005, and similar claims are common (e.g., Roberts2006). Chambers also predicted both in 2005 and in a keynote at the NXTcomm conference in June 2007 Chambers2007, Duffy2007 that growth might accelerate towards 300 to 500% per year, and that the internal Cisco corporate network traffic load is currently growing at such rates"
ISPs bemoan the coming bandwidth crunch using one source, and use other sources to validate their claims of what is statistically normal while simultaneously ignoring contradicting facts from those sources that are inconvenient when applied against their proposed business models?
The MINTS project data indicates that data is "Year-end 2008 estimates for monthly Internet traffic (GB per capita)" and clarifies that is extrapolated data. Based on that number, and assuming it is accurate per capita it would still put most users over 5GB and render RR's proposed lowest tier obsolete right out of the gate.
If ISP execs are using data like that provided from MINTS and making the typical arguments using that data that their business model needs to change, then they're morons. They should at least hire a mathematician qualified in statistics and probability to interpret the data for them so they can make informed decisions.
MINTS also claims that their numbers are not entirely reliable because ISPs typically do not share detailed information that could be used to obtain reliable statistics.
The repetition of ISPs claiming that the "typical" user requires x GB and that traffic on the internet will increase to y EB does nothing to support their position for those who understand what data is relevant when the ISPs won't provide raw numbers to prove it. -- Tradition: Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid. --despair.com | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   Lans
@verizon.net
from: fireflier 
| Re: metered billing means Just scrolling and trying to see what others have to say on this. 
I agree with fireflier that the 5 GB per capita would be grossly inaccurate to represent usage of typical usage for an average household/user. If you take that "monthly Internet traffic estimate" for the US and divide it by the entire US population then you get roughly 5 GB per capita figure...
Of course, not everyone in the US even have a computer let alone internet access... A quick Google search suggests that to be as high as 30% (2005 figures) so you are lowering the average of people that actually uses the internet... 5 GB/.7 = 7 GB would be slightly better figure. I would argue that is still too low for board band users as 5 GB should be pretty hard to hit on 56k dial up (assuming 8hrs per day; still takes over a week 24/7 to hit 5 GB). My guess is board band is more like 10 to 12 GB and dial up is 1 to 3 GB per month. And Yeah there are still people in the US that uses dial up... Just my guess tho...
Still as pointed out, you need to know the standard deviation to use the normal/bell curve to figure out where say ~68% to ~95% of the population lies. It would seem fair to me if they had a reasonable/cheap plan to cover ~68% of users, and a more expensive plan to cover ~95%, and then very expensive plans... If it really is all about consumers as they claim... | |
|  |  |  |  |  wentlanc You Can't Fix Dumb..
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| said by espaeth :The median traffic usage level for most ISPs in the US and Europe is somewhere in the 2-5GB/mo range. That means that at least 50% of the subscriber base is using 2-5GB/mo or less. So that leaves some fraction up to 50% of broadband users that would be affected by this approach, instead of the industry claims that the shift to metered billing would only impact 1% of their customers. It's very interesting that they chose to use the median, and not the mean. I wonder how much worse that number looked... Can we exclude Europe to get a real number that is useful here?
cw | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  wentlanc You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH
| Re: metered billing means said by baineschile :No, I am completely for higher speeds and competition. But, at the day and age, i think the caps imposed are semi-reasonable. I do think though, that any ISp has the right to manage their network however they see fit; and if .1% of their customers eat 25% of the bandwidth, and caps is a way to kick them off, then so be it; or pay for commercial rates. If they are willing to sell it, then they do have the capacity. They are the ones that chose the billing model, not us. You either bill flat rate, and deal with the spectrum of usage habits, or bill by the byte. If you bill by the byte, I for one expect it to be similar to electricity. There is a connection fee, and usage per byte. The problem is that they want it both ways. They don't want to lose the $$ from people who barely use their connections, but still want to gouge the people who do. People who use 2 - 5 gigs per month should be paying $15 a month, not $50. But the greedy pigs want more....
It's liks saying that you are an hourly employee until you hit 40 hours. Then you switch to Salary. You can't have your cake and eat it too!!!
cw | |
|  |  |  Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA | I'd love to see actual graphs on how much people use. I'm willing to bet the majority of users are 3 times higher then 40 gig. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  See 16 replies to this post | |
 |  |   BF69
join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN
| said by baineschile :Way off Karl. A 40 Gig cap does not affect ALL households; as most internet users still are way under that threshold. A) Doesn't affect them NOW. Usage per household is growing exponentially. Within a few years 40 GB will be nothing for most.
B) TW caps were as low as 5 GB and that DOES affect most households.
Until Broadband becomes a utility, we have to deal with a competitive, capitalistic market; which means that if a company want to do caps and overages, thats what we will have to deal with (or go to a different company) That would be nice if there was an actual free market. There isn't and if you think there is you're deluded. Just because I own the only gas station around for miles doesn't mean I can legally charge $100 a gallon for gas.
Also, your claim that it was to deter internet video; if that was the case, why would FiOs even bother having TV service if broadband and IPTV is the future? I will give you that no company has supported data that shows they SHOULD have caps; but that doesnt mean the sole reason is to deter competition. Sure it does. Say if I decide to cut my cable and go with watch all TV thru Hulu and other legal internet sources. Now say I want to watch them in HD. The average person watches 151 hours of TV a month. 151 hours at 2 Mbps stream is 130 GB a month and that's if you're a 1 person household and don't have any other internet useage( which is doubtful ). Now you have a 40 GB cap so you are 90 GB over which TW will charge you $90. Well that's more expensive than cable. So the incentive to cut cable is now gone. If that isn't deterring internet video I'm not sure what is. | |
|  |  |  |   JamesPC
join:2005-10-12 Orange, CA 2 edits | Re: metered billing means Ya, like my MLB.tv. Which i watch alot of different games legally.
The best part is that we talk about it likes it costs them alot for bandwidth. There marketing budgets are more than there bandwidth costs. | |
|  |  |   beerbum Premium join:2000-05-06 Reading, PA clubs:
| said by baineschile :Way off Karl. A 40 Gig cap does not affect ALL households; as most internet users still are way under that threshold. I like to think of myself as an average user - that is I do not download everything just for the sake of downloading.. from 4/20/09 to 05/20/09 the traffic I received was 31GB and traffic sent is 2.5GB.. so I'm at 33.5GB..
On my other LAN segment, which one "average" user is connected to, received traffic was 19.5GB and traffic sent was 1.1GB..
That brings the total traffic to 54.1GB for two "average" users.. About the only largeness downloaded has been the Windows Seven RC..
It is very easy to exceed the "40GB" that you think is way off.. | |
|  |  |  dfxmatt
join:2007-08-21 Evanston, IL
| every time you lower caps, you have a new group that hits that upper cap.
So if your cap was 100GB, suddenly people in the 80GB are abusing the cap.
If your cap is 40GB, suddenly people in the 30GB are abusing the cap.
Most internet users are not by any circumstance under 40Gig; companies are deliberately avoiding the reality of their bandwidth capability. Once we do IPTV, what do you suppose happens to the excess of bandwidth for HDTV? Why should we pay extra for that? Oh right, added value isn' tit?
Their goal isn't to deter competition as there is none. their goal is to degrade service to up profit margins. | |
|  |   neowulf
join:2000-10-20 Port Orange, FL
| I also no longer want to pay for banner ads, or any ads for that matter as I would then now be paying for those ads...
Metered billing would turn the internet into a very boring place, think of all the flash sites, or graphics or innovating that would be killed by having to watch how much bandwidth you consume. Heck I am wasting bandwidth right now by being here!
They are trying to tout this as saving the internet, or they talk about it how grandma is subsidizing the heavy users, and that grandma shouldn't have to pay because you watch hulu.
Yet in the end even TWC plan was to charge grandma what she was paying if she just checked her email, but if she downloaded that video of her grand kids she better be ready to pay more then what she was before she was saved by TWC from those heavy users.
So in the end grandma is going to be paying more then she is now, so who exactly are they helping out here? Don't answer that I already know. | |
|  |  |  See 12 replies to this post | |
 |  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Many water companies and power companies are not regulated as they're a co-op within cities. The States do not regulate them for the most part. And they can do what they want.
If you didn't know that go find the story where the person was killed in their home this last winter from a Muni-owned power company. | |
|  bgraham
join:2001-03-15 Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| I know everyone is going to scream but It depends on the pay as you go price. I jumped from a regular cell to a pay as you go package and saved over $20 a month. See, I am not a big user of cell phones.
If pay as you go internet was decently priced I would go with it. If it's just a way to increase prices, then I have no use for it. | |
|  |  See 7 replies to this post | |
  FiOS LIVE So fast, it's LIVE
join:2008-11-25 Collegeville, PA
| "Bandwidth Apocalypse"? Please... The only way a so-called "bandwidth apocalypse" would happen is if the demand for bandwidth increases so fast that the already oversubscribed cable nodes slow to a crawl and under the demand. But that's not really a "bandwidth apocalypse" because only the cable companies refusing to upgrade their network to either less crowded nodes or go FTTH will be affected; the same applies to copper milking DSL telco's.
Interesting how those same companies who fear the "bandwidth apocalypse" are the ones who are going to cause it if it does happen. -- AT&T + Comcast Your world. Destroyed. Throttle and put a cap on it. It's Comcastic! | |
|  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
  winsyrstrife River City Bounce Premium join:2002-04-30 Brooklyn, NY clubs:
1 edit | Keep it Up TW Keep at it TW...when it's all said and done, you'll be the pioneers of having made government step in and turn your !#% and all other ISPs !#&es into dumb pipes.
said by Karl Bode :Instead of implementing high caps that targeted just the heaviest users, seemingly detached executives stumbled lustfully for the holy grail of broadband pricing: low caps and high overages that intentionally impact all households, designed to deter and/or monetize competing Internet video delivery. LoL, Karl I think that was your high moment when righting this article. Nice creatvity there.  -- "Suddenly everything is fainting, falling from a broken ladder's rung. There's a jolt exhilarating from the phone I'm holding... I hear the words of what I'll become, how eager the hands that reach for love." - Blind Melon - New Life | |
|  me1212
join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO
·VOIPo
| Why can't they stop lying.... and treat their costumer like they have a brain? We know they only want to do this to get more money out of us and give us MUCH less, there is no proof that the exaflood is real IF they gave up REAL proof that would be different. If they want to meter why NOT make a real PAYG(we know the answer, money) a $50 for 40GB and 5m and $1 per GB over= fail. If the cablecos must insist that metered billing= the future make it a true PAYG ie $10 for 5m and $0.15(just a random # I thought of) for each GB. | |
|  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
 Desdinova
join:2003-01-26 Gaithersburg, MD
| Hmmm... I still don't get how anyone with a brain can buy into the exaflood thing. The ISP's are warning us that the 'net's about to crash and they don't want that to happen, but the only way it COULD happen is if they continue to oversell their networks so it DOES happen. If such a crash were truely imminent they could just say "Sorry, no more room on the 'net" and stop selling access.
The whole exaflood seems to be like a party being held in a loft with a flimsy floor and the guy at the door hosting the party is on the phone with police screaming, "Hey, the building's about to collapse from too much weight so you better send someone over here to make all the partygoers go on a diet." | |
|  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | The NCTA is the RIAA of cable... ...and you're surprised that McSlarrow is not completely honest and forthcoming?
Really?
 | |
|   hayabusa3303 Over 200 mph Premium join:2005-06-29 clubs: | here we go again, round how many now? subject says it all. | |
|   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey | Where is that picture from? Every time he uses that picture next to an article, where is it from? | |
|  |  |  |  |   Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
1 edit | If I bribed politicians with $14.4M I'd go to jail It's time to send the NCTA leadership to federal prison for their bribery and cable (and telco) execs to prison for their RICO violations.
It's time that the gov't be of the people, for the people instead of just billed to the people. -- POKE 65495,1 | |
|  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: If I bribed politicians with $14.4M I'd go to jail Hell, that's just their trade association. Add in the $12.5 million that Comcast spent, $8.2 million from Time Warner, etc. and it now we're talking over $40 million to lobby the folks who are supposed to be watching over these bastards.
The U.S. Telecom Association (the telco equivalent to the NCTA), on the other hand, is a piker at $2.8 million | |
|  hottboiinnc ME
join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| ATT Hmmmm....Again I don't see anything about ATT in this story or in the comments. Remember ATT is one of the biggest ISPs that already are doing the trials. Nobody has any problems with that. it's only TWC, Frontier, and Comcast that people have the problems with.
Maybe if all the other providers changed their name to ATT they'd get a break too. | |
|  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
 bjbrock
join:2002-10-28 Mcalester, OK
| Nationalize the Broadband Infrastructure. I don't care who built it with whose dollars. It is time the federal government stepped in and nationalized ALL broadband infrastructure. Totally take away any corporate control over the delivery of bandwidth. Only the delivery of services should be used in their business. This is the only way to put everybody on a level playing field. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA | Re: A modest proposal. Well, you can honestly do this now, just actually count up what people use.
And all this would do is give the cable executives an ability to make up stats. | |
|   Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | It all for the Money Money makes the world go around The world go around The world go around Money makes the world go around It makes the world go 'round.
A mark, a yen, a buck, or a pound A buck or a pound A buck or a pound Is all that makes the world go around, That clinking clanking sound Can make the world go 'round.
[GIRLS] Money money money money money money Money money money money money money Money money money money money money Money money
[EMCEE] If you happen To be rich, [GIRLS] .......Ooooh [EMCEE] And you feel like a Night's enetertainment, [GIRLS] ...Money [EMCEE] You can pay for a Gay escapade. [GIRLS] Money money Money money Money money Money money [EMCEE] If you happen to To be rich, [GIRLS] .......Ooooh [EMCEE] And alone, and you Need a companion [GIRLS] ...Money [EMCEE] You can ring-ting- A-ling for the maid. [EMCEE] If you happen To be rich [GIRLS] .....Ooooh [EMCEE] And you find you are Left by your lover, [GIRLS] ...Money [EMCEE] Though you moan And you groan Quite a lot, [GIRLS] Money money Money money Money money Money money [EMCEE] You can take it On the chin, [GIRLS] .....Ooooh [EMCEE] Call a cab, And begin [GIRLS] ...Money [EMCEE] To recover On your fourteen- Carat yacht.
[EMCEE] Money makes the world go around, The world go around, The world go around, Money makes the world go around, Of that we can be sure. (....) on being poor.
[ALL] Money money money- money money money Money money money- money money money Money money money money money money Money money money money money money Money money money money money money
[DANCE BREAK]
[EMCEE AND GIRLS (In Canon)] If you haven't any coal in the stove And you freeze in the winter And you curse on the wind At your fate When you haven't any shoes On your feet And your coat's thin as paper And you look thirty pounds Underweight. When you go to get a word of advice From the fat little pastor He will tell you to love evermore. But when hunger comes a rap, Rat-a-tat, rat-a-tat at the window...
[GIRLS] At the window...
[EMCEE (spoken)] Who's there?
[GIRLS (spoken)] Hunger!
[EMCEE (Spoken)] Ooh, hunger!
See how love flies out the door... For
[EMCEE] Money makes The world... [GIRLS] ...Go around [EMCEE] The world... [GIRLS] ...Go around [EMCEE] The world... [GIRLS] ...Go around [EMCEE] Money makes the .... Go around [GIRLS] ...Go around
That clinking Clanking sound of Money money money money money money Money money money money money money
[EMCEE] Get a little, [GIRLS] Money money [EMCEE] Get a little, [GIRLS] Money money [EMCEE] Money money [GIRLS] Money money [EMCEE] Money money [GIRLS] Money money
[EMCEE] Mark, a yen, a buck [GIRLS] Get a little [EMCEE] Or a pound [GIRLS] Get a little [EMCEE] That clinking clanking [GIRLS] Get a little Get a little
[EMCEE] Clinking sound
[GIRLS] Money money Money money...
[EMCEE] Is all that makes The world go 'round
[GIRLS] Money money Money money -- I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption | |
|   sbrook Premium,Mod join:2001-12-14 H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host: Rogers Bell Canada
| Why do they have to experiment? They have consumption data and they know what people say they are willing to spend on internet, and they know what the demand usage is likely to be in the future.
They can do the arithmetic!
This "experiment" is solely to "See what the market will bear" or rather to seehow much they can get away with gougeing the public! | |
|  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Why do they have to experiment? That's exactly right. They have the data right in front of them. The reason they won't share it with anyone, or release raw data of any kind, should tell a smart consumer volumes.
As for the TWC trials, the "experiment" was about framing public relations and marketing to make the change seem necessary...they'd already perfected the back office structure in Beaumont months earlier. | |
|   duder
@rr.com | same old crap cap fuck them all fine some one better | |
|  Core0000 Premium join:2008-05-04 Somerset, KY
·New Wave Communica..
·Windstream
| Hasn't this been explained already... There is no internet apocalypse on the main big backbones right? its all last mile that is getting congested.. why? because isp are over selling there networks right?
(Please notice my question marks anyone who reads this, I am asking more of a question than I am stating something.. anyways...)
I honestly do believe when you don't deliver to the customer what they want, give mediocre service, ask for more money from the customer, then at that point you have crossed the threshold into greed. (You know that.. kinda reminds me of the fed Government.. except you can't vote with your wallet in that situation, but I digress)
If company A offers 10d/10up and charge 70 dollars a month, but it's fantastic service that never goes down and has the lowest possible latency. Great. .. shit my mind just went blank, not sure where I was going with my example now.. _-_'
I think my point is, that someone else can charge a different price for the same service, but that 'LEVEL' of service may be different etc. The money from that other isp that offers the speeds at a lower cost may not be investing that money back into there infrastructure.. not managing there profits correctly.. and then start over selling there networks..etc.
If there were more competition the consumer would not have to pay for the stupidity of the ISPs... | |
|  |  Zorglub
join:2000-11-18 Fremont, CA
| Only thing missing is competition Look at countries where the last mile was unbundled and compare the prices. We will get screwed because we allowed a duopoly to take place. Our choice is to either get screwed by the cableco or by the telco...
For the price of Comcast speedy internet service, I'd get 8/1 internet, video over DSL and VOIP in France. Difference? Unbundling of the last mile at a set price by the regulator. They have good old fashion capitalistic competition and we don't. | |
|   tier_is_good1
@fsu.edu
| Usage pricing already sort of exists in the flat price model Usage based pricing already sort exists within the flat price model. Comcast for example has an economy plan with speeds around 1mbps for a lower price than their standard $45 service. Also, they charge you more for internet if you don't get their cable. There are also higher speed plans offered at higher prices. There would be no real need for them to worry about people consuming more online videos, since the economy plan wouldn't really be fast enough for much intensive streaming video. If a lot of people started dropping their cable tv for some reason, they would have to pay the higher internet bill rate. The content providers would have to come up with some alternate means of obtaining revenues to pay for their programming, but this would be the media networks, not the cable companies. The profit margin Comcast gets from its internet services is actually pretty good. That is probably why they are using fairly high soft caps. They also have invested in some online video.
Time Warner seems to have had difficulty making upgrades to its network over the past several years. This could be preventing them from being able to offer people variety in internet service options. The equivalent would be if a fast food place only offered its customers hamburgers, and no other menu items. AT&T I could see playing the metering game on their non-UVERSE dsl service, but metering UVERSE is not going to encourage adoption. In a Time Warner vs AT&T market, AT&T may get significant market share. I doubt that that in Comcast vs AT&T markets (which is a quite common overlap in places like Chicago, much of Florida, and the San Francisco/San Jose area) would get get much U-VERSE adoption with the rather low caps.
Verizon's behavior is too confusing to even begin to understand. Offloading FIOS areas in Oregon and Washington to Frontier makes no sense. | |
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