Cable Vs. Telco'The Battle for the North American Couch Potato'( old news - 03:57PM Monday Mar 27 2006) tags: Video · competition · statsBoth cable operators and telcos are eager to solidify true "triple play" bundles (voice, data, video), but cable's early entry to VoIP will net huge dividends in the race. Cable companies will have 8% of residential phone customers by the end of this year, and 22% by the end of 2009, according to a new study by the Convergence Consulting Group. Telephone companies meanwhile will have less than 1% of TV subscribers by the end of 2006 and only 6% by the end of 2009. The group meanwhile has this to say about Verizon & AT&T's next-gen video & broadband deployment plans: "Although we are impressed by Verizon's fiber approach and pricing strategy, the project at its current coverage rate will not be completed until the next decade. We are uncertain as to whether AT&T and BellSouth's current capex commitments to network upgrades will be enough to satisfy capacity needs of offering multiple HD streams and higher speed Internet access." A breakdown of the study, "The Battle for the North American Couch Potato", can be found here.
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- Cutting The Cable Cord
- Internet Video Still Just a Baby
- Game Consoles Lead The Internet Video Revolution
|
 Surfinusa
Premium
join:2001-02-08 | And so it begins Hah. They want your money. NO problem. Give me fiber and I can give you some money. hah | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
| Re: And so it begins The only war is going to be in Verizon areas. Only Verizon has the cash and the will to go full blast on FIOS. ATT (SBC, BLS, ATT) will try to convince people Project Lightspeed is FIOS. They won't. And, do they want to?
Cable pretty much will own the markets FIOS isn't in. I'll bet they get more phone customers than this report says. CEO Brian Roberts, Comcast, is going to be ruthless against the surviving Bells except in Verizon land.
Of course, this report doesn't really take into account that cell phones outnumber landlines. In five years, I doubt we will be having the telephone discussion just the broadband one. If cell companies just doubled their talk time, which they will, the Bells and Cable's plans are irrelevant. | |
| 
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA | Uh-huh Me no like it.
I don't even own a TV. I want the faster residential BB speeds and TW/BH won't sell it to me unless I get the DigitalTV package.
A La Carte Please.
NV
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Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool! | |
| | 
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
 ·Mediacom
| Re: Uh-huh said by Noah Vail  :Me no like it. I don't even own a TV. I want the faster residential BB speeds and TW/BH won't sell it to me unless I get the DigitalTV package. A La Carte Please. NV Well you can just pay for digital TV and don't use it at all. It will come down to that because a la carte will not bring any significant savings. They want your money and they'll get it one way or another.
If they ever decide to offer a la carte they will jack up the prices and tell people to stop bitching because they are offering a la carte. | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Noah Vail :Me no like it. I don't even own a TV. I want the faster residential BB speeds and TW/BH won't sell it to me unless I get the DigitalTV package. A La Carte Please. So get digital tv, upgrade your net to faster package then cancel the video portion.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
| 
Erwin_D
join:2003-06-30
Netherlands | Why... Why don't these companies stick with what they do best? Cable for TV, phone lines for phones. Next thing, Microsoft will start making cars and Ford will make computers... nothing good can come from it. | |
| | cadre22
join:2002-09-18 | Re: Why... ‘So… what kind of car do you drive?...’
‘A Microsoft…’ | |
| | 
Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | (ignorant_statement)Well they both suck so what's the difference again???(/ignorant_statement)
 | |
| bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | What about COMPETITION?? With the RIGHT kind of competition, the consumers will be the greatest winner!! | |
| 
Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | TV I cant imagine verizon offering television service. Even their fastest dsl around here is less than half the speed of the cable I have. | |
| | 
icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: TV said by Dagda1175 :I cant imagine verizon offering television service. Even their fastest dsl around here is less than half the speed of the cable I have. Where have you been? FIOS fiber offers 30/2 packages if I remember correctly. | |
| | | WMLGuy
join:2000-06-05
Rockaway, NJ | Re: TV Actually it's 30/5 | |
| | | 
Rickez
Goinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA | Fio's is in how many homes now? 17? Verizon can not handle this, they never finish anything. | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: TV said by Rickez :Fio's is in how many homes now? 17? Verizon can not handle this, they never finish anything. Actually there are about 30 towns in Mass that are pretty much all wired up for Fiber, that they're rolling out TV service for. Countless others in the other couple dozen states they're also wiring. With the money they're spending they're making some good progress.. Considering Comcast is considering offering 16/1 service to all FIOS available localities, I'd say Comcast is a little more worried about it than you are. | |
| | | | | 
nfixit2004
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Brooklyn, NY | Re: TV Just bring FIOS to NYC Please!
and I could care less about cable  | |
| | | | King75
King Of All And Nothing
Premium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD
clubs: | They are in alot of countys here in Maryland. They are also selling their yellowpages, they are worth atleast a couple billion. Besides they bought MCI didn't they? | |
| | |
Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | Not even beginning to be widespread enough to matter. | |
| | 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | I think Verizon is only offering TV in areas served by their fiber optic service.
Even then, not all areas yet.. | |
| | | 
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: TV Whats really sad are the poor morons who shell out 30+ bucks for unreliable, overrated VoIP services from cable that cost's cable a few dollars to provide. It's one thing to pay 15 bucks a month or less for this same service, but when cable charges 40.00.. It's almost insulting. | |
| | | | 
yacman
@shawcable.net
| Re: TV what is the cost of motorola voip modem?. i think it's more than a few bucks. check the forcast of the cableco's on thier voip. i think most start to make money after 6 or so months.
most cable co's also offer free service calls, of which some of the cost is built into the rates. it would be nice, however, if these companies would offer some sort of loyalty rebate, for those subs who keep a service past 1 year (as an example). as for unreliable, they MUST keep a 99.9997(or whatever) up time to keep their CLEC status. unreliability is not an issue for the masses( at least in the system operating in my area). what's really insulting is someone making a blanket statment like "Whats really sad are the poor morons who shell out 30+ bucks for unreliable, overrated VoIP services from cable that cost's cable a few dollars to provide. It's one thing to pay 15 bucks a month or less for this same service, but when cable charges 40.00.. It's almost insulting." | |
| | | |
hello2
@148.129.x.x | agreed!!! and to make matter worst ... the bill you like if they provide traditional phn service with all the taxes possible.... total savings from cable supposed voip 5 bucks... then you factor PROFESIONAL INSTALATION savings are zero... | |
| | | |
HybridGuy
@rr.com | TWC pays MCI per VoIP sub; hard to charge 15.00 bucks for a service that costs you 15.00 bucks.
They do a 39.99 package for digi/hsd subs but I feel they should be charging 29.99 for the service, regardless of bundling.
Just my .02 | |
| | | |
Orwell1984
@res.rr
| Nice to be called a moron for saving around $50 a month for telephone service that is indistinguishable in every respect from old fashioned phone service. I could care less how much it costs the provider all I care about is how much it costs me. Why do you think the telco pays any more to provide the same service at twice the price? (over 90% of my calls are long distance) The fact is we talk on the order of 5 times as much for half the price. It is good to be the moron! | |
| | | | |
tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: TV said by Orwell1984 :
Nice to be called a moron for saving around $50 a month for telephone service that is indistinguishable in every respect from old fashioned phone service. I could care less how much it costs the provider all I care about is how much it costs me. Why do you think the telco pays any more to provide the same service at twice the price? (over 90% of my calls are long distance) The fact is we talk on the order of 5 times as much for half the price. It is good to be the moron!
You have more faith then me bro. I never said VoIP isn't for everybody. I don't make much LD calls and if I need too, I have 2 cell phones that work just fine. The point here is though it's felt that 40.00 is TOO MUCH for VoIP providers to be charging, can you fathom what it's going to be when the FCC starts regulating it, the states want to take control of it and everyone will want some easy revenue? My 17.00 pots like ended up at 34 because of taxes, fees and features I wanted. But it's your money. When you start paying about 15.00 a month more once the feds and states see a revenue cow, for you, it still will be a bargain if you live on the LD side of your service.. | |
|
anonpronman
@dsl.net
thumbs down from:
ArchAngel21x
| Complete BULLSHIT Great the Afluent folks in NY,NJ,CT get a choice of high speed internet/cable.
What about the rest of us..(bend over)
The FCC is truely Useless.. F- the poor? Not your attitude? well that is your stance Mr. Fcc man. | |
| 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| And what's up with internet service? Interestingly enough, the study maintains deep silence about the troubled cable networks: when it comes to next-gen bandwidth, new high-speed tiers plus plenty of HDTVs in a house, most of the cable networks will be forced to finally invest into long due but always postponed (see profit) developments, otherwise telcos will eat up their outdated networks alive within few years. | |
| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: And what's up with internet service? Well, that's debateable.. D2.0 and D3.0 will bring their speeds up to acceptable levels, most likely. | |
| | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: And what's up with internet service? said by Ahrenl :Well, that's debateable.. D2.0 and D3.0 will bring their speeds up to acceptable levels, most likely. That's highly unlikely because new modem standards doesn't solve the network congestion problem... Face it: they did not invest enough into upgardes, now they have to - that's why they created the 'multi-tiered' internet shit, to create a fuckin new business modell, new revenues, so they can recoup the cost and simultaneously stretch out the essential upgrades whicle they're playing the 'gatekleeper' role, allowing billed traffic only. | |
| | | |
Orwell1984
@res.rr | Re: And what's up with internet service? Short term memory problem? It was, is, and likely will continue to be the telcos who are the only ones proposing a so called two tier internet. | |
| | | | yac898
join:2002-12-06
Stony Plain, AB
| again, where do you get your facts? i've searched and all i can find is telcos and multi tiered internet, not cable co's.
with bell south & at&t being the loudest (and first) voices.
please post a link stating the cableco's are responsible for this. as for network congestion, it is a problem and i agree the cable co's ( at least where i live are reactive, not proactive). they saturate a node and then SPLIT, not splitting b4 saturation is achieved. that being said, another search has come up with 61 node splits for my city & surrounding satelite communities, scheduled for completion b4 aug 1/06. in my opinion, node splits should happen as needed.
allowing billed traffic only? what does this mean? i pay my bill so all traffic i generate is allowed, period. you must live in some communist country if you recieve anthing less than that. oh wait you live in the states, where the corporate voices speak louder than that of the consumer. my advice, move. | |
| | | | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: And what's up with internet service? said by yac898 :again, where do you get your facts? Did you bother to look up the numbers?
When a Comcrap spent some 10B over 7 YEARS - everything including food for company parties etc - but at the same time its network grown 60x-100x times then you know what I mean, I guess...
i've searched and all i can find is telcos and multi tiered internet, not cable co's.
Then you should look again: cable is the loudest. Telco, as another actor in the scene, would simply enjoy the same role, of course. I never said they aren't dirty - in this case they are on the same plate with cables. But the main power was and always are the cable monopolies behind such multi-tiering.
with bell south & at&t being the loudest (and first) voices.
please post a link stating the cableco's are responsible for this.
Please do your own research - check all the comments from cable companies on the subject - Comcrap, Crapter etc etc - at least here, at BBR.
as for network congestion, it is a problem and i agree the cable co's ( at least where i live are reactive, not proactive). they saturate a node and then SPLIT, not splitting b4 saturation is achieved. that being said, another search has come up with 61 node splits for my city & surrounding satelite communities, scheduled for completion b4 aug 1/06. in my opinion, node splits should happen as needed.
You're missing the point. Cable monopolies are able to do it because they are enjoying monopolies. That's what has to go.
allowing billed traffic only? what does this mean? i pay my bill so all traffic i generate is allowed, period. you must live in some communist country if you recieve anthing less than that. oh wait you live in the states, where the corporate voices speak louder than that of the consumer. my advice, move.
Are you high? WTF are you talking about? | |
| | |
Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | You might get a faster speed to the CO but there pipes will be the same, they will be forced to upgrade to catch up with the pounds of cash the telco's are skating on. | |
| | 
Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by kamm :Interestingly enough, the study maintains deep silence about the troubled cable networks: when it comes to next-gen bandwidth, new high-speed tiers plus plenty of HDTVs in a house, most of the cable networks will be forced to finally invest into long due but always postponed (see profit) developments, otherwise telcos will eat up their outdated networks alive within few years. Wasn't it the cable industry that just invested about 90 BILLION to build a hybrid-fiber-coax network oh, say, about 10 years ago?
--
I have tried to see things from your point of view, but no matter how hard I try, or what I do, I just can't get my head that far up my ass. | |
| | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: And what's up with internet service? said by Matt :said by kamm :Interestingly enough, the study maintains deep silence about the troubled cable networks: when it comes to next-gen bandwidth, new high-speed tiers plus plenty of HDTVs in a house, most of the cable networks will be forced to finally invest into long due but always postponed (see profit) developments, otherwise telcos will eat up their outdated networks alive within few years. Wasn't it the cable industry that just invested about 90 BILLION to build a hybrid-fiber-coax network oh, say, about 10 years ago? You mean that's what they say? Well, even if they did, that was a decade ago.
Keep in mind that 10 years ago they barely had internet users at all, let alone at multiple-tens of millions scale. | |
| | yac898
join:2002-12-06
Stony Plain, AB
| who is your local cable co? how do you know they have not invested in their network?. after reading your comments to see if they are true or just another uneducated rant, i searched my local cable co ( aprox 4 million subs ) and have found out they have spent, on average, 550+ million/ year over the last 5 years on capital costs. they are spending about the same this year, and are forecasting just under 600 million for 07.
advertising expenses come in just under 35 mill/year on average, and customer aquisions are forcast as minimal (read no free ipods or monitors). assume half of those costs are for labour/building maintance, bills, ect, that leaves about 200 mill for system upgrades/year. not alot, but nothing to sneeze at either. i dont know what your local telco is like, but here they are just starting to roll out adsl2+. if you think that adsl2+ can "eat up a mid sized cableco" i think
it must be time for you to switch to a better brand of crack. | |
|
SkysFalling
@comcast.net | Tripple Play without Services? Wow! All Verizon has available is POTS. Can someone explain the "Vs" part of the article?
Verizon's so lame they can't deliver Chicken Shit DSL to 8000 feet! FIOS is going to be laughable when it gets here in twenty years! LOL! | |
| | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Sample provides info. already known to most 1- Cable is gaining phone service subs faster than rbocs getting video subs. Not going to change for considerable future.
2- ATT buildout is half-ass and might not be a big enough investment for the future
3- Verizon has the plan but might no have the financial backing to finish it FIOS build out in a timely manner and won't reach critical mass anytime soon.
Say what you want about cable but your more likely to see voip from cable than video from rbocs in your area any time soon and that is only if you are in Verizon country. | |
| |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Sample provides info. already known to most said by JSRoman :1- Cable is gaining phone service subs faster than rbocs getting video subs. Not going to change for considerable future. 2- ATT buildout is half-ass and might not be a big enough investment for the future 3- Verizon has the plan but might no have the financial backing to finish it FIOS build out in a timely manner and won't reach critical mass anytime soon. Say what you want about cable but your more likely to see voip from cable than video from rbocs in your area any time soon and that is only if you are in Verizon country. Uhh-ohh, it all sounds nice and warm and fuzzy for you, I bet but how about the internet access and the obvious shortcomings of cable networks?
No matter what kind of BS study you cable guys pull out, it's gonna be a very hard decade for you cable guys, ROFL - if no updates, you'll be eaten alive by telcos and such when it comes to internet. | |
| | | yac898
join:2002-12-06
Stony Plain, AB
| Re: Sample provides info. already known to most a quick look at dslreports fastest providers shows
0 dsl providers in the top ten for speed
2 in the top 20
4 in the top 30
cable shows
9 out of the top 10
17 out of the top 20
25 out of 30
the telcos cant compete right now with cable on speed.
CAPS - where i live the cable cos alwasy had caps AND enforced them, the telco's didnt. now the telcos do, and with LOWER caps
score cable 2, telco 0
RELIABILITY/SATISFACTION - i can only judge this from the forums in dslreports. both have problems, but the local cable co is rated sliver, telco, not rated.
score cable 3, telco 0
the statement "No matter what kind of BS study you cable guys pull out, it's gonna be a very hard decade for you cable guys, ROFL - if no updates, you'll be eaten alive by telcos and such when it comes to internet." is 100% wrong in this case. please post facts to back up your statments.
fact - adsl2+/vdsl is only being introduced for video services not faster speeds for the users. in some systems the end result is faster services, but still cant touch cable.
the argument about oversold nodes is not much different than distance from the CO factor dsl users have to put up with. both impede performance. cable is dependant on users, which CAN(will) have a negative impact dependant on time of day. distance from the CO WILL have an impact without any other factors.
please enlighten us readers on how a telco is in better shape than a cableco with regards to internet only performance.
just the facts please, as we dont need any bs from a teclco appologist. | |
| | | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Sample provides info. already known to most said by yac898 :a quick look at dslreports fastest providers shows 0 dsl providers in the top ten for speed 2 in the top 20 4 in the top 30 cable shows 9 out of the top 10 17 out of the top 20 25 out of 30 the telcos cant compete right now with cable on speed. Ouch. Since when this top list has anything to do with general situation?
So your statement is false. Cable networks are oversold and congested.
CAPS - where i live the cable cos alwasy had caps AND enforced them, the telco's didnt. now the telcos do, and with LOWER caps
score cable 2, telco 0
What a BULLSHIT. I hyaven't heard about *ANY* telco in my area - the largest city in North America, you know - with caps and such.
You are saying false info again.
RELIABILITY/SATISFACTION - i can only judge this from the forums in dslreports. both have problems, but the local cable co is rated sliver, telco, not rated.
score cable 3, telco 0
What abunch of crap again!!!
Are you high? Seriously, take a look on DSL forums and then a nother on cable: both has its own share of problems except DSL is a dedicated speed between you and your CO, unlike cable.
the statement "No matter what kind of BS study you cable guys pull out, it's gonna be a very hard decade for you cable guys, ROFL - if no updates, you'll be eaten alive by telcos and such when it comes to internet." is 100% wrong in this case.
Pal, all of your points above were proven rubbish, from A to Z. Yes, somebody is wrong, and that is you.
please post facts to back up your statments.
I did - it's not my problem if you cannot follow them. It'd be pretty hard to explain anything for somebody who thinks a local top speed list has anything to do with this subject, ROFL...
fact - adsl2+/vdsl is only being introduced for video services not faster speeds for the users.
Suuuure... LOL! "ADSL2+ is onlu for video not for faster" - this could be my new sig... 
Seriously: are you joking with this crap, aren't you?
Covad already has ADS2+ and it is available via Earthlink, pal.
in some systems the end result is faster services, but still cant touch cable.
And bullshit again... Educate yourself on the subject - EU and Asia are full of 10-20+ Mbps ADSL2+ offers.
the argument about oversold nodes is not much different than distance from the CO factor dsl users have to put up with. both impede performance. cable is dependant on users, which CAN(will) have a negative impact dependant on time of day. distance from the CO WILL have an impact without any other factors.
please enlighten us readers on how a telco is in better shape than a cableco with regards to internet only performance.
just the facts please, as we dont need any bs from a teclco appologist.
Jesus kid, you've turned out to be one of the least educated debatter on this topic - why don't you read up a little bit before you dfeliver these idiotic blatant yet ignorant messages, saving yourself further embarrassments like this? 
PS: telco what? You're officially high, now I know it... | |
| | | | | yac898
join:2002-12-06
Stony Plain, AB
| Re: Sample provides info. already known to most you really neeed to quit smoking dope.
"Ouch. Since when this top list has anything to do with general situation?"
are you saying to the readers of this forum that speed is not an issue? speed is a GENERAL SITUATION that concerns most of the readers at one point or another. that makes it relevant. ( if speed is not an issue for you, great, keep your dial up).
"So your statement is false. Cable networks are oversold and congested."
again, please post facts, please support your argument with somthing, anything that supports you. opinions ( even drug enduced) are exactly that, nothing more than hot air.
"What a BULLSHIT. I hyaven't heard about *ANY* telco in my area - the largest city in North America, you know - with caps and such.
You are saying false info again."
if you can read, follow this link. »Telus starts to enforce bandwidth cap?. this would make it CORRECT INFO. your area may be immune, but blanket staments like "Cable networks are oversold and congested."
without facts prove you are just another telco hack.
"Are you high? Seriously, take a look on DSL forums and then a nother on cable: both has its own share of problems except DSL is a dedicated speed between you and your CO, unlike cable."
please tell me why then,
SBC(telco) READ (if you can) this link »Official Chicago Slowdown Tech Results thread 3-15 update
or this one
»Official Bay Area slowdown thread
or this one
»Anyone else having slowdown in Oklahoma?
why all the problems ACROSS different systems in DSL land, your post makes you look like an uneducated moron. each system, dsl/cable has pros & cons, to deny that, simply shows your ignorance.
"Pal, all of your points above were proven rubbish, from A to Z. Yes, somebody is wrong, and that is you."
porven, how, your rants only prove that you are willing to BACK UP your statments with nothing more than rants.
"I did - it's not my problem if you cannot follow them. It'd be pretty hard to explain anything for somebody who thinks a local top speed list has anything to do with this subject, ROFL... " where? how, what is the color of the sun on your planet?
no links, no quotes, zip. just more hot air.
earthlink introduced adsl2+ originally for VOIP
»telephonyonline.com/voip/news/VO···_031606/.
And bullshit again... Educate yourself on the subject - EU and Asia are full of 10-20+ Mbps ADSL2+ offers.
asia? what about ANYWHERE in the contenital US?.
Jesus kid, you've turned out to be one of the least educated debatter on this topic - why don't you read up a little bit before you dfeliver these idiotic blatant yet ignorant messages, saving yourself further embarrassments like this?
PS: telco what? You're officially high, now I know it...
Please, this site is meant for INTELLIGENT DEBATE, of which you obviously offer none. do us all a favor, and your family and commit suicide.
in your system, what you say may be true, but without FACTS
you come off as jsut another reason why people hate americans. | |
| 
Tarheels Fan
Premium
join:2006-01-05
·Embarq
| There is no way either could win without major upgrades. Both Cable and Telco's are "super" saturated right now. Most are on the brink of critical breakdown when it comes to the back-end of their networks. If you tip the scale, even by 20% either way, without doing major upgrades, that one provider will see massive issues. Take Verizon for example, they started the new 14.95 plan and can't keep up. Sprint introduced a new speed tier and pricing structure, and their network is barely treading water. All of these companies have one thing in common, and that is an over-utilized network. You can run all the fiber you want for the last mile, but until more OC-192's are installed at head nodes and redbacks, then I think the market will balance itself out with QOS, as customers flip back and forth to the best quality provider. | |
| floydb_1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA
·Clearwire Wireless
·Comcast
| Getting TV from the telco is just like getting DSL The TV from the telco is coming to your threw the land line just like DSL is. With DSL precisely how much benefit you see will greatly depend on how far you are from the central office of the company providing the ADSL service. ADSL is a distance-sensitive technology: As the connection's length increases, the signal quality decreases and the connection speed goes down. The limit for ADSL service is 18,000 feet (5,460 meters), though for speed and quality of service reasons many ADSL providers place a lower limit on the distances for the service. At the extremes of the distance limits, ADSL customers may see speeds far below the promised maximums, while customers nearer the central office have faster connections and may see extremely high speeds in the future. ADSL technology can provide maximum downstream (Internet to customer) speeds of up to 8 megabits per second (Mbps) at a distance of about 6,000 feet (1,820 meters), and upstream speeds of up to 640 kilobits per second (Kbps). In practice, the best speeds widely offered today are 1.5 Mbps downstream, with upstream speeds varying between 64 and 640 Kbps. Were as cable TV its performance doesn't depend on distance from the central cable office. A digital CATV system is designed to provide digital signals at a particular quality to customer households. So if your still thinking off getting TV from the telco thing again and with the cable companys TV. | |
| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| Re: Getting TV from the telco is just like getting DSL Any transmission standard is distance sensitive. DSL is distance limited
A person 2 ft from a DSLAM and one 15,000ft from it are going to see the same surfing quality if the line is capped at about 2 megs.
Digital cable is also limited but the cable companies have their nodes closer to the end user. The drawback to their tech is they have shared access across from the end user to the node. | |
| | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
2 edits | quote:
The TV from the telco is coming to your threw the land line just like DSL is.
What in the HELL are u talking about?
First of all, FiOS was being discussed .. this is NOT DSL and the TV is not coming "threw the landline" LOL, get a clue.
Secondly, if youre talking about IPTV, and I dont think you were, youre still clueless, this will be sent over vdsl or adsl+ circuts which are MUCH faster than todays standard dsl. | |
| | | floydb_1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA |  Re: Getting TV from the telco is just like getting DSL
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| 
Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| And the winner is.... Cable. By a mile.
Much faster speeds overall than DSL.
Faster install times for internet..no contracts...
no distance issues such as can be seen with DSL service.
Verizon certainly is on the right path with Fios but they are a LONG way from really presenting much of a challenge to the cable operators and in that time span..there's much that cable operators can do as well to improve upon their service and offerings.
Television? Clearly cable operators own that market.
And as the article states..their VOIP service is going to grow by leaps and bounds.
Where exactly does this really leave the telcos?
In a lot of trouble i think.
Their bread and butter landlines are under serious threat from the cell phone providers and now from the cable operators.
Their video offerings are second rate and second best..if they even have them at all.
And, while their DSL pricing is attractive..it's for much slower service overall than the cable co's provide.
Telco is in a world of hurt and it's only going to get worse.
~RRR
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
| | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
1 edit | Re: And the winner is.... Not much of a challenge? Tell that to Optimum Online, Comcast, Brighthouse, Cox, etc... People think Verizon will only slow down the FIOS rollout. HOW SO? Where is this masterful prediction coming from? And don't link me to a bullshit article from Wall Street. Until proven otherwise I believe Verizon will become increasingly aggresive. AT&T isn't stupid either, quite the contrary they are a bunch of greedy bastards and won't let their customers be eaten up by cable companies. Why can't POTS providers just do smear campaines on Voip anyway I'm surprised it's taking them so long. | |
| | 
antenna4
Premium
join:2006-03-25
Columbus, OH | I agree! If I had money to invest, I'd invest in cable company stock. Not the old phone companies. | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Fios will win in the end Fiber-Optics are the future and are unbeatable. Just give it time. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Fios will win in the end said by Rob A :Fiber-Optics are the future and are unbeatable. Just give it time. You might very well be right. But the question is, do they have the time, not to mention the huge amounts of money necessary to do it?
When you look at the telco's package offerings now, what you've got is this.
If you want TV Service...you'd better be getting satellite.
If you want DSL..it just seems to be loaded with conditions for getting it. Contracts..distance from CO...
quality of the phone lines...slower speeds...
It all amounts to hoops and more hoops to jump thru.
I also think their landline business is under much more of a threat than they'd like to admit.
I know i don't have one anymore. I'm perfectly content now with my cell phones that i can take anywhere with me.
Cable co's are kicking their butts when it comes to speeds and they just keep getting faster and faster everyday.
Telco's ONLY bread and butter product..which is landline phone service is under an amazing threat from cells and now voip from the cable co's and it is MUCH easier for the cable co's to come after their business from that end versus the phone co's doing the reverse with cable.
Verizon DOES have the right idea with Fios...but where is it today?
It's a tiny dot on the horizon compared to what's out there and it's going to be amazingly expensive for them to roll out and service the numbers they have to to really compete.
And basically, they're even really the only telco who's even doing it.
All this does NOT add up to a rosey future for the telco industry.
Cable co's have the convenience..the speeds...the video..and now quickly are adding voip.
All at a price that's very attractive and viable for most consumers.
And they clearly are the first out of the gate by a mile with these package offerings and I think that any company with that much of a head start is going to be the clear winner in the end.
All telco's really have is the lower priced..lower speed dsl offerings.
And...this isn't to knock that or the customers with that, because it's surely better than the alternatives.
But..that's going to be the case for a long time for most of their customers and until the ones who are fortunate enough to get the fios get it in their areas.
But..how long will people wait?
If cable is right there ..right now for many of them...
i don't think that answer is they'll wait too long.
I'd be selling Telco stock if i owned any.
It's not going to be pretty.
~RRR
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
| | | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
4 edits | Re: Fios will win in the end Dude, do u understand that the telcom co's added more DSL internet subscribers than cable internet did last year? talk about the slower speeds and contracts all you want.. but the bottom line is the "slower speeds" are more than enough for todays average user. 768K is more than enough, not to mention the 1500 or 3000 which most get.
You think that all this has taken the telephone companies by surprise. ? I hate to tell u, but they knew about voIP way before it was even released. This is all part of a master plan by the FCC and PUC's of this country to establish and promote competition . Once enough people have switched over to voIP, this country will slap regulations all over it. Yes, VoIp lines will one day be taxed to death like landlines are.. and AT THAT POINT, people will stop leaving their landlines in droves. Why? because no matter how much the VoIP cheerleaders defend it, it is NOT as reliable as a traditional landline. I had a landline that did not lose service for 15 years ! How many people can say that for a VoIP line.. for even 2 or 3 years? For a few months? lol VoIP is only as reliable as your internet connection.. a landline has no such co-requisite.
I wont say the same for AT&T for I dont agree with their IPTV plans, but verizon invests billions of dollars every year in their cell network, DSL and now FiOS services. You think they actually lack revenue? IMO, this is where people should be investing because eventually they will have a video offering that will be superior to the cable co's. This company is not in trouble, they are correctly adapting to new competition.
You keep talking as if there will be one winner that knocks the other out. Both cable and the telecom companies will survive. In the end, they each will probably have a 49% share of the stake. I will give satellite 2%
You keep rewriting the same post over and over. Get a grip. | |
| | | |
Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Fios will win in the end said by ITALIAN926 :Dude, do u understand that the telcom co's added more DSL internet subscribers than cable internet did last year? talk about the slower speeds and contracts all you want.. but the bottom line is the "slower speeds" are more than enough for todays average user. 768K is more than enough, not to mention the 1500 or 3000 which most get. But dude, no I don't understand that the telecoms added more subs last year than cable co's did because i haven't seen those statistics other than in your post with no back up link to the data.
But even if they did, so what?
What really counts is their NUMBER of subs now versus whatever they added last year.
And how could they not add more subs with their somewhat misleading advertising that does nothing more than to state what the price is now and for a few months versus what people will ultimately pay?
That kind of a pricing scheme is NOT what builds a business for the long term. It's customers responding to a sale price for a few months and nothing more.
DSL providers and some customers like yourself will not respond to the real issue and that is what their REGULAR price will be versus what kind of very mediocre speeds you can expect for that service versus what cable provides.
DUDE...6MB and more service Versus 768k or 1500k for what REALLY amounts to a few dollars more per month AFTER the DSL providers smoke and mirrors strategy blows away is going to blow away the telco's business for good.
Customers and people in general are not stupid and when it comes time for that real comparison to happen..it's no comparison at all.
That is not to say that DSL providers couldn't have a viable product and strategy if their pricing were to REMAIN where it is for the mediocre speeds they generally deliver because there certainly is a market for those lower speeds as well.
But what we're talking about here is not that, but about what kind of REAL value there is for the product that's being delivered.
And, i'm very sorry to inform you but just one visit to almost every cable forum here on BBR will tell you the real story about the massive speed increases people on cable are experiencing.
And it's just not that way for DSL.
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
| | | | | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
| Re: Fios will win in the end Let me pick apart this BS LOL
quote:
But dude, no I don't understand that the telecoms added more subs last year than cable co's did because i haven't seen those statistics other than in your post with no back up link to the data.
Not only did I read this in this forum, but in a few other places. Pay attention.
quote:
But even if they did, so what?
What really counts is their NUMBER of subs now versus whatever they added last year.
Even if they did so what?? This means they will catch up if they continue to add more subscribers than cable.. use some common sense ! haha
quote:
And how could they not add more subs with their somewhat misleading advertising that does nothing more than to state what the price is now and for a few months versus what people will ultimately pay?
... and what exactly do you say about most cable co. triple play packages that are $99 a month which ends up being $140 - $150 a month after the year is up ?? Hmmm.
quote:
DUDE...6MB and more service Versus 768k or 1500k for what REALLY amounts to a few dollars more per month AFTER the DSL providers smoke and mirrors strategy blows away is going to blow away the telco's business for good.
Once again, youre missing the point. 768k is more than enough speed for the average consumer in this country. Think about it, there are STILL millions of dialup users out there.. because it serves its purpose to those users !.. Umm this is 56k we're talking about by the way. 
quote:
Customers and people in general are not stupid and when it comes time for that real comparison to happen..it's no comparison at all.
Surely you must be joking. Yea, people on this board are aware of the differences in speeds and services. How about my grandfather.. your Aunt and my uncle? Hmm for them, the webpages load the same and emails go out just as fast for any of the broadband services.
Nice fightin with ya. | |
| | | | | | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Re: Fios will win in the end ITALIAN926 Vs. RoadRunner Rick
And the winner is....
ITALIAN926. By a mile.
Made myself laugh at that one | |
| 
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Interesting If Comcast were to offer VOIP with the same guarantees as cable, and better pricing, I'd consider it. One of my fears of VOIP is calling VOIP company and being told, "All's clear on our end, call your ISP." then calling the ISP and them saying, "You can browse the internet without a hitch. Call VOIP back."
The big bump I see is calling cableco-VOIP group and being told to call cableco-ISP group and being bounces around with still no-one taking ownership. All VOIP problems would need to end at cableco-VOIP, even if it's an ISP issue.
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Looks like cable in drivers seat for next 5 years