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CableLabs Preps DOCSIS's Next Step
DOCSIS 3.1 or 3.x Focuses Heavily on Upstream
by Karl Bode 08:33AM Tuesday May 15 2012
Many cable operators haven't deployed DOCSIS 3.0 yet (especially on the upstream side), but that obviously hasn't stopped the development of the next step in cable broadband technology. CableLabs says they're cooking up a new specification that will succeed Docsis 3.0 with a particular focus on cable's upstream speeds, the spot its weakest when compared to fiber to the home. The next standard, currently just being caleed DOCSIS 3.1 or 3.x, focuses on more effective modulation schemes. Hard technical specs aren't available just yet, but you can expect to hear more at next week's The Cable Show in Boston.

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FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Just got Docsis 3 upstream update this week

Comcast just rolled out Upstream bonding in my area this week. Had downstream bonding for a couple years. It is taking years to roll out Docsis 3. Imagine how long before they roll out any updates to it. And Comcast is one of the more aggressive providers in rolling out D3.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Just got Docsis 3 upstream update this week

supposedly it's just patch for the docsis 3 gear that supported upstream bonding already.

To bad they won't start working at upgrading current plants to be 2200 mhz capable that would be an awesome thing.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Just got Docsis 3 upstream update this week

Awesome, yes. But very, VERY expensive (remember, line losses increase as frequency increases).

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Still rocking SB5100

Comcast can't even saturate my old SB5100 here in Atlanta. I'm supposed to get 12/2 service but it's more like 8/1 on a good day. I'll buy a D3 modem when they actually can provide good service... maybe by 2020 or so.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
CSD8086

join:2004-03-12
US

1 recommendation

Re: Still rocking SB5100

?

You may very well be getting 8/1 on a good day *because* of your SB5100. Buying a D3 modem will provide you with bonded downstream with four channels.

You're complaining about the traffic on a one-lane road. Move to the four lane road. While you don't intend on exceeding the speed limit, the additional lanes provide far more options...

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by CSD8086:

?

You may very well be getting 8/1 on a good day *because* of your SB5100. Buying a D3 modem will provide you with bonded downstream with four channels.

You're complaining about the traffic on a one-lane road. Move to the four lane road. While you don't intend on exceeding the speed limit, the additional lanes provide far more options...

So you're saying Comcast is advertising something they can't deliver. I'm promised 12/2 service WITH my SB5100 modem. The SB5100 is more than capable of delivering 12/2 service, I shouldn't have to spend more money for something I have no need.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Re: Still rocking SB5100

Hey now, he was just offering a solution to your problem. Spreading your bandwidth over multiple channels tends to give you more bandwidth, alleviating the low speed issue you have now...but that would reduce the number of things you could complain about

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by iansltx:

Hey now, he was just offering a solution to your problem. Spreading your bandwidth over multiple channels tends to give you more bandwidth, alleviating the low speed issue you have now...but that would reduce the number of things you could complain about

If you weren't getting what you pay for, no doubt you'd complain as well.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Still rocking SB5100

I'd also do something about it

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by iansltx:

I'd also do something about it

I do. I call Comcast and take up time with their tech support every week. They should not advertise what they cannot deliver. Why don't they come right out and tell me they cannot deliver their service reliably unless I obtain a new device? Why do they repeatedly tell me my device is fully supported? I guess I'm just not as eager to bend over and spread 'em as some other people.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1

C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3

Re: Still rocking SB5100

A D3 modem would likely help you out as it spreads the load across multiple channels. Maybe phone support people don't know to tell you this, but you should know this as it is posted on these forums several times a day!

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by C_Chipperson:

A D3 modem would likely help you out as it spreads the load across multiple channels. Maybe phone support people don't know to tell you this, but you should know this as it is posted on these forums several times a day!

So you're saying Comcast lies when they say they fully support the SB5100 for their service. When they "upgraded" my neighborhood, I was told there was no need for new equipment, that I was fully supported unless I wanted to subscribe to one of the newer high-speed packages. But, I guess that was yet another lie from Comcast. They continually try to foist their modem rental upon me, I guess this is done intentionally to force people to just give up and ream them for more money each month.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Re: Still rocking SB5100

We gave you the solution to your problem. Does anyone really care if you don't believe us and would rather rant about Comcast? Probably not.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by mix:

We gave you the solution to your problem. Does anyone really care if you don't believe us and would rather rant about Comcast? Probably not.

No, you did not provide a solution. You provided a work-around that doesn't address the actual issue. There is a difference.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
You'll still have a 250GB cap in 2020, so what's the point?
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
maybe sooner then that try when all analog is turned off.

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI
If you owned a DOCSIS 3.0 modem, you would get the full speed of the service you paid for, because your connection will be balanced between multiple channels. Plenty of people on many different cable isp's have reported this.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by mix:

If you owned a DOCSIS 3.0 modem, you would get the full speed of the service you paid for, because your connection will be balanced between multiple channels. Plenty of people on many different cable isp's have reported this.

Again, Comcast is promising me 12/2 service WITH the SB5100 modem I already have. So, no, I am not getting the service I pay for and am promised and I shouldn't have to purchase new equipment to get what they promise with my present equipment.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
andyross
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by fuziwuzi:

Again, Comcast is promising me 12/2 service WITH the SB5100 modem I already have. So, no, I am not getting the service I pay for and am promised and I shouldn't have to purchase new equipment to get what they promise with my present equipment.

Remember the key words: UP TO

Lark3po
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
Reviews:
·Knology

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by andyross:

said by fuziwuzi:

Again, Comcast is promising me 12/2 service WITH the SB5100 modem I already have. So, no, I am not getting the service I pay for and am promised and I shouldn't have to purchase new equipment to get what they promise with my present equipment.

Remember the key words: UP TO

+1
talz13

join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

1 recommendation

said by fuziwuzi:

said by mix:

If you owned a DOCSIS 3.0 modem, you would get the full speed of the service you paid for, because your connection will be balanced between multiple channels. Plenty of people on many different cable isp's have reported this.

Again, Comcast is promising me 12/2 service WITH the SB5100 modem I already have. So, no, I am not getting the service I pay for and am promised and I shouldn't have to purchase new equipment to get what they promise with my present equipment.

You're complaining like you are sitting behind a router that can handle the traffic, but the 400mhz Pentium II that you're browsing with isn't cutting it on the data rate.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by talz13:

said by fuziwuzi:

said by mix:

If you owned a DOCSIS 3.0 modem, you would get the full speed of the service you paid for, because your connection will be balanced between multiple channels. Plenty of people on many different cable isp's have reported this.

Again, Comcast is promising me 12/2 service WITH the SB5100 modem I already have. So, no, I am not getting the service I pay for and am promised and I shouldn't have to purchase new equipment to get what they promise with my present equipment.

You're complaining like you are sitting behind a router that can handle the traffic, but the 400mhz Pentium II that you're browsing with isn't cutting it on the data rate.

Sorry, but I have a Linksys E3000 running Tomato and an i7 3.4GHz with 8GB DDR3. Comcast just provides crappy service. It didn't used to, a year ago I got great speeds. Even discounting Powerboost, I would regularly get the full 12/2 speeds. But, after their "upgrade" to my neighborhood, speed declined. Calls to tech support get nothing, as long as they can ping my modem they don't care. My cellphone is faster, and some days I do tether to the phone if I really want to get something downloaded quickly.
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1

Joe232

@comcast.net

Re: Still rocking SB5100

You don't want to here it: "Your modem is the problem." "You'd get that speed if your modem quit dropping the packets." "It's an analog issue, not the speed of the modem. But a faster modem can make up for it."

I had one that wasn't even doing 256Kb downloads or staying connected for more than 10 minutes and then took it in and got another with the same firmware revision and model number. I got speeds of 15Mb+ when downloading and a rock-solid connection. Modems can die or misbehave due to analog (read:RF/radio) problems inside the black box.

The modem has a maximum rate that it can handle and this varies even among the exact same model and firmware. If a modem is capable of 5Mb/s on each channel and can handle 4 channels, then it'll get the promised 20Mb/s but just barely and maybe lost packets until dropped to 15Mb/s. A modem that can handle only 2 channels but 6Mb/s each will get only 12Mb/s downloads even though other modems with the same design will get anywhere from 8 to 20 as they age. Yes, radios get old and some are well beyond specs while others are just barely in.

Joe232

@comcast.net
I think the point trying to be made is that your modem is the 400MHz Pentium II. It's the bottleneck. Most ISP's won't even allow them on higher-speed plans precisely because of your issue. Or they make you acknowledge that the older modem might not even be able to handle that speed stably. I don't mean to be mean but either the modem or the speed tier would be gone if it was me.

fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA

Re: Still rocking SB5100

said by Joe232 :

I think the point trying to be made is that your modem is the 400MHz Pentium II. It's the bottleneck. Most ISP's won't even allow them on higher-speed plans precisely because of your issue. Or they make you acknowledge that the older modem might not even be able to handle that speed stably. I don't mean to be mean but either the modem or the speed tier would be gone if it was me.

I'm not asking for one of the higher speed plans that requires a DOCSIS3 modem. I simply want the service I've had for several years now, that up until their "upgrade" worked just fine. Comcast continues to sell the 12/2 service and continues to tell me it only requires a DOCSIS2 modem, and continues to say that the SB5100 is a supported modem for the service level which I subscribe. If their service actually does require a DOCSIS3 modem, then they should inform me of that and stop lying about their service. Is it too much to ask for the company to be honest?
--
Teabaggers: Destroying America is Priority #1
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

Broadband really started with @Home

I seem to remember that cable modems were the first mass-market broadband. ISDN was a joke. Once @Home started taking off, DSL expansion and all the rest followed.

I found a CableLabs/DOCSIS history page here:
»www.cablelabs.com/anniversary/data.html

I actually can't remember if @HOME started offering service before DOCSIS 1.0, I think so.
flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state

Re: Broadband really started with @Home

Cable Broadband started with @Home and died with @Home, since Concast took over they have done nothing but limit its potential with invisible caps and now the 250GB joke of a cap. I am just glad Verizon has upgraded me to FiOS and now I have a connection that can smoke anything Cable can offer now and in the future and all with no caps, they are also standing up to the BS fishing lawsuits instead of just giving in.

somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

Copper is Dead



FTTH is really the only solution!

Good Luck w/squeezing copper to the breaking point!
tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

Re: Copper is Dead

said by somms:



FTTH is really the only solution!

Good Luck w/squeezing copper to the breaking point!

Just an FYI, I have done plenty of speed tests on coax that are atleast as impressive as yours (including that sub 5ms ping time).

somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

Re: Copper is Dead

said by tim tim tim:

said by somms:



FTTH is really the only solution!

Good Luck w/squeezing copper to the breaking point!

Just an FYI, I have done plenty of speed tests on coax that are atleast as impressive as yours (including that sub 5ms ping time).

Post your comparable upload speed and keep in mind that I'm paying $45/month for symmetrical 100Mbps FTTH: »www.xmission.com/utopia#more
MrRuckus

join:2004-01-30
Portland, OR

Re: Copper is Dead

Keep in mind he also has a cap. Per the page he linked to: 1TB/Month. True its greater then Comcast residential service, but when you get into UNLIMITED bandwidth, even their prices are off the wall @ $350/month. I would keep my Comcast Business Class with almost the same download and half the upload for less then one 3rd the cost and NO CAP. Once caps come into play, your fiber doesn't look too appetizing. Compared to Cable anyway.

»stage.results.speedtest.comcast.···7532.png

somms

join:2003-07-28
Salt Lake City, UT

1 edit

Re: Copper is Dead

said by MrRuckus:

Keep in mind he also has a cap. Per the page he linked to: 1TB/Month. True its greater then Comcast residential service, but when you get into UNLIMITED bandwidth, even their prices are off the wall @ $350/month. I would keep my Comcast Business Class with almost the same download and half the upload for less then one 3rd the cost and NO CAP. Once caps come into play, your fiber doesn't look too appetizing. Compared to Cable anyway.

»stage.results.speedtest.comcast.···7532.png

;)

Why are you having to dig up a stale Comcast speedtest from 1April!? Was that your best test ever and you can no longer attain these? If this was your best, the upload is still gimped compared w/FTTH!!
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Congrats, you live where most of us don't. For the rest of us, 50/15 or 105/20 (with the associated expense) are what we have to live with...with higher ping times even to the first hop *shrugs*.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

2 edits
said by somms:




FTTH is really the only solution!

Good Luck w/squeezing copper to the breaking point!

On a 1GHz system

Cable has 5.3Gigbit/s or 5,300mbps

11.7gig on 2.2GHz system.

Most people are limited by the computer hardware of 1gigabit
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

Re: Copper is Dead

There are no 2.2ghz systems, unless your talking about Directv.
Cobra11M

join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX
said by somms:



FTTH is really the only solution!

Good Luck w/squeezing copper to the breaking point!

LUCKY!!, fastest we can get in town is 10.....thats it, what i wouldnt do for 50 gosh lol
Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY
If that speed was a woman, I'd bang it. That's how hot that is.. and that beautiful sexy 3ms ping..*falls over*
majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1

stop gap

I am pretty sure this is a stop gap measure. They are looking into having the next spec look like fttp but on coax. I know they are also working on how cable companies can use fiber to the home and control it with current docsis headend equipment.
tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

ftth is too expensive.

With the costs of FTTH, this is a much better alternative.

Cable is already able to do 100+ down (if I remember correctly Comcast demonstrated 1gps down on live plant?) Its not the capability that's lacking, its the need. 95% of households are perfectly fine with 10/1 service so investing millions for less than 5% who aren't happy with the 40-50/5ish services already offered isn't logical, yet.

The FTTH speeds dont look so impressive when you look at where cable is at when you figure the cost difference between the 2. Its only a matter of time until they increase the spectrum for the upstream. Its too noisy in the sub low band to do much more than a 64qam (which is already a huge challenge) so there going to have gain more spectrum.

•••

Straphanger
Express is Back
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-08
Whitestone, NY
kudos:2

1 recommendation

It's nice but...

...it's for the privileged few that can actually justify spending $100/month for high speed DOCSIS 3.0 service. Cable providers really need to work on bringing down the stratospheric cost of DOCSIS 3.0 service to mid-tier levels.
--
Please use all available doors...you have 33 to choose from.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

current modems?

so this will be a firmware upgrade?
still, that doesn't mean cable companies are going to offer faster upload speeds. they are unlikely to offer symmetric broadband any time soon, but they could easily double or triple current speeds offered on mid-tier & low tier plans.

50/8 offered by cablevision could easily match 50/20 (by Verizon) with upstream bonding... bit for bit under docsis 3.1

••••
Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY
Reviews:
·Time Warner VOIP

I have time warner...

Anyways, they just bought out newwave in my area, or its legit now. And if I understand correctly they still have the Docsis 2.xx something here.. Hell will freeze over before 3.0. No competition. It sucks....

If I had the money to just up and move, I'd damn well move where their was FIOS.